Second Round: Miami - Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mick Foley

[klunderbunker]

This is a second round matchup in the Miami Subregion. The ring and arena are universal throughout the first round and the organization is not a factor. There is a 20 minute time limit. Vote using any criteria you like. Most votes in the poll at the end of the time period wins. In the case of a tie we will go off of the number of written votes. In the case of a second tie, both are eliminated. Assume one week has passed since the first match ended.

Location: American Airlines Arena, Miami, Florida.

Jumbo Tsuruta

Vs.

Mick Foley

Voting is open for 4 days.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I like Mick Foley, I always have. He's given some of the best promos I've seen and delivered some of the most memorable moments in wrestling history in my view. He may well be the overall toughest of the tough when you take into account all the things that he's been through.

The problem here is that Mick Foley is out of his element. Foley always has been at his best when in a hardcore element but, here, he's in a standard match with one of Japan's biggest wrestling legends. Jumbo has a much greater skill set, is physically stronger and generally in overall better shape than Mick Foley has probably ever been at any point in his career. Foley's sheer toughness would give Jumbo a tough time but, eventually, Jumbo would wear Foley down. It would take a while, but I think Jumto Tsuruta comes out on top. If this were a hardcore match, I'd probably vote for Foley but it's not.

 

[jmt225]

To my recollection, Foley has had one match throughout his career against a true Japanese legend. It was against Kawada, and not only did he lose, but the match sucked complete ass as well. Check it out below:

[YOUTUBE]pIExBHTyo_g[/YOUTUBE]

The fact is, Foley cannot work unless it's an extremely hardcore style of match, or under the WWE style. And when he's out of that element, two things are sure to happen:

1. The match will suck.
2. Foley will lose.

No matter how you look at it, Foley should not advance in this tournament passed Jumbo Tsuruta.

I really, really like Mick Foley, and he is a legend in my opinion, but he was never as good of a professional wrestler as Jumbo Tsuruta was, and he didn't offer as much to the business as Jumbo did. Sure Foley fell off a Cell and took some brutal bumps, but Jumbo managed to take a handful of devastating shots himself, while providing us with some of the greatest matches in the history of the business. He deserves to win this match, bottom line.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I don't understand the love for Mick Foley. Sure he's a daredevil and is known to risk life and limb to win a match, but against superior skill, Foley's been DOMINATED. Undertaker? Domination. Triple H? Dominated. The Rock? Push. Stone Cold Steve Austin? DOMINATED. Who's to say Jumbo wouldn't out wrestle Foley and win in a rather sloppy match?

Jumbo should win this. He's probably the most sound techincal wrestler Japan may ever know. And that's a BOLD statement to make. Many like Kobashi because of his heart and offense, and the same goes for Misawa. But Jumbo Tsuruta is a beast himself and would have joy in pinning Mick Foley for the win.

Vote Jumbo. Because Mick Foley's overrated.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

If this match were in Japan, I would have vote for Tsuruta. But it's in America, and that means we're wrestling an American style. Foley is much better and more suited for this style. Multiple time World Champion Mick Foley is no slouch of a wrestler, and is obviously among the toughest men ever. He can take a beating perhaps better then anyone ever and comeback for a win. So, although Tsuruta would enjoy some early success, but Foley would slap on a Mandible Claw out of nowhere and finish of the Japanese legend.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

If this match were in Japan, I would have vote for Tsuruta. But it's in America, and that means we're wrestling an American style. Foley is much better and more suited for this style. Multiple time World Champion Mick Foley is no slouch of a wrestler, and is obviously among the toughest men ever. He can take a beating perhaps better then anyone ever and comeback for a win. So, although Tsuruta would enjoy some early success, but Foley would slap on a Mandible Claw out of nowhere and finish of the Japanese legend.

Enlighten me on the American style. Foley lost a lot wrestling an "American" style. When has Foley ever beat beaten and come back to win. He got up from being tossed off and through the cell. What happened? He lost. No Way Out 2000- him going through the cell. What happened? He lost. Foley can take a beating but he rarely came out the victor.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Enlighten me on the American style. Foley lost a lot wrestling an "American" style. When has Foley ever beat beaten and come back to win. He got up from being tossed off and through the cell. What happened? He lost. No Way Out 2000- him going through the cell. What happened? He lost. Foley can take a beating but he rarely came out the victor.

Exactly.

Foley gets the shit beat out of him constantly, comes back from it and fights, and all of a sudden, he's the second coming of Harley Race. Mick Foley is a glorified stuntman and showed limited wrestling ability during his career. In an actual match, Jumbo would have very little trouble with Foley. Despite a TON of near falls, Foley will eventually pass out and be pinned for a 3 count.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

So Mick Foley can win two falls against The Ultimate Warrior, but he's no chance against Random Japanese #34? This match is simple. I know Foley's name, and I know his accomplishments. I've never heard of Jumbo Trampoline, and I couldn't care less if he was in this tournament or not. No one wants to see the Japanese advance. It's boring. That's why these threads end with three replies. I'm getting red rep for this, but that's my reasoning.

Uhh.. Foley with the Claw.

 

[Ferbian]

I think this is a pretty obvious draw for me, seeing as I've never really liked Mick Foley's style, I have to search for a long time to find a Mick Foley rule based match that I found good.

Mick Foley is a hardcore wrestler, that's all he ever was, all he ever will be, and nothing is gonna change that, I don't see Mick being able to beat Jumbo, as many has said, he's lost all his high profile matches, and he's never beaten a Japanese legend

Mick Foley is going down.. Jumbo it is.

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

I'm torn on this matchup.

I know the right answer is Jumbo Tsuruta. I've never seen any of his matches (I'm not near an expert on Japanese wrestling as others here on the group and won't try to pretend as such), but I've read up on him, and he's generally considered to be the biggest legend in Japanese wrestling between the periods of Baba and Inoki and all of the greats from the late '80s onward. In the overall history of wrestling, he's a bigger figure than Foley. As much as I love Foley, I can't deny that.

But this is a case where I'm on the verge of allowing my personal preference take over here. I've never seen a single match of Jumbo Tsuruta honestly. Mick Foley is my fifth favorite wrestler of all-time. And from what I'm reading, I think he's a bit underrated for his technical ability. Sure he was no Jack Brisco or Bret Hart, but just because he wasn't "technical" in the sense doesn't mean he wasn't a good worker. Bret Hart himself has stated that Foley was good in the ring, much better than given credit for. In his prime, he was in good conditioning (see the In Your House Mind Games match with Shawn Michaels), and his in ring and crowd psychology has been praised by many of the best in wrestling of recent years. Now I'm not trying to argue that Foley was better in the ring than Tsuruta, as that's just not true. But I think classifying Foley as just a "stuntman" or "hardcore wrestler" is selling his ability short. And he's one of the best promo guys ever.

And his impact on the industry as a whole can't be denied. Whether it was a good impact or bad one is up for debate, but whether it was good or not, it's there. Foley raised the bar for spots in matches and the overall intensity and excitment of the in-ring action. But the beauty of his style was that he rarely ever injured anyone else. Now he injured himself plenty of times, but even with his intense style in the ring, most guys were safe in there with him, which is a testament to his skill. Unfortunately the backyard wrestling movement was partly inspired by his style (and ECW). So for better or worse, no one can deny that Mick Foley had a major impact on the wrestling industry during his career.

In addition to that he really broke the mold for what type of wrestler could be successful, especially in the WWE. There was never anyone like Foley who was champion before, or since.


I think both wrestlers are deserving of being considered amongst the most important figures in modern pro wrestling history. But I know deep down I should vote for Tsuruta. But I want to vote for Foley.


I'm not going to vote yet. Everyone here, please feel free to try and persuade me which way to go. For the Tsuruta fans, tell me why I should go with him. For any die-hard Foley fans, tell me why I should go for Foley.


Go! lol

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

So Mick Foley can win two falls against The Ultimate Warrior, but he's no chance against Random Japanese #34? This match is simple. I know Foley's name, and I know his accomplishments. I've never heard of Jumbo Trampoline, and I couldn't care less if he was in this tournament or not. No one wants to see the Japanese advance. It's boring. That's why these threads end with three replies. I'm getting red rep for this, but that's my reasoning.

Uhh.. Foley with the Claw.

Warrior and Tsuruta are two completely different wrestler and I hope you aren't insinuating that Warrior is a better wrestler than Jumbo because that's flat out wrong. I expected your post to be made by some noob but I'm surprised and ashamed that it's coming from you. Maybe you don't want to see the Japanese advance, but there are some great Japanese wrestlers who deserve to go far in this tournament. If you don't want it, then don't vote especially since you never heard of Tsuruta. Just embarrassing on your part.

 

[gd]

Warrior and Tsuruta are two completely different wrestler and I hope you aren't insinuating that Warrior is a better wrestler than Jumbo because that's flat out wrong. I expected your post to be made by some noob but I'm surprised and ashamed that it's coming from you. Maybe you don't want to see the Japanese advance, but there are some great Japanese wrestlers who deserve to go far in this tournament. If you don't want it, then don't vote especially since you never heard of Tsuruta. Just embarrassing on your part.

I 100% agree with 487 here. The fact that a guy is mostly insignificant to us should be a legitimate reason to vote against him. I think that falls under the category of "anything." Say Mick Foley is one of my favorite wrestlers. Just because he's facing a guy I don't know does that mean I'm not going to vote in that matchup? Of course not, I'm voting for Foley.

There are those, like you, who vote for the Japanese guy or the Old School guy just because people don't know about him, so he must be good. I doubt you know anything about Jumbo yourself. If you're going to preach about not voting if you aren't knowledgeable on someone, you should follow that rule as well.

I had to go with Foley here, firstly because Jumbo isn't exactly the greatest or most well known Japanese wrestler ever. I saw him wrestle Nick Bockwinkel once. He was decent enough, but nothing really special. Foley is an American wrestling legend. He's been a part of some of the craziest, most insane moments in American wrestling history and he's all around just an interesting and entertaining guy.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I 100% agree with 487 here. The fact that a guy is mostly insignificant to us should be a legitimate reason to vote against him. I think that falls under the category of "anything." Say Mick Foley is one of my favorite wrestlers. Just because he's facing a guy I don't know does that mean I'm not going to vote in that matchup? Of course not, I'm voting for Foley.

There are those, like you, who vote for the Japanese guy or the Old School guy just because people don't know about him, so he must be good. I doubt you know anything about Jumbo yourself. If you're going to preach about not voting if you aren't knowledgeable on someone, you should follow that rule as well.

I had to go with Foley here, firstly because Jumbo isn't exactly the greatest or most well known Japanese wrestler ever. I saw him wrestle Nick Bockwinkel once. He was decent enough, but nothing really special. Foley is an American wrestling legend. He's been a part of some of the craziest, most insane moments in American wrestling history and he's all around just an interesting and entertaining guy.

You know what happens when you assume something. You can say it to yourself. I've watched plenty of Tsuruta and other Japanese wrestler's matches so I can be more informed this time around. Maybe you should do the same thing but you probably wouldn't want to waste your time doing that.

With most of your faces, they get beaten up countless times and come back for the victory. Foley is not one of those faces. He gets beaten up, goes for the comeback, and then loses. You can see that in his matches with the Undertaker, Rock, HHH, etc. Foley was great at putting people over by losing even though I've always said you don't have to lose to somebody to put them over. He will make Tsuruta look like gold in this match by losing to him.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Foley works like shit in standard matches against anyone, let alone Japanese legends. I don't even think I've ever seen Foley in a standard match where a hardcore element wasn't involved, whether it was legal to the match or not. The fact of the matter is Foley's niche is hardcore wrestling, and he simply can't perform well in any other style. Tsuruta gets my vote, but marks will probably put Foley over on this one.

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

Well.

Everyone in the tournament has used the "personal preference" card on at least a few of the matches, and we have that right. So I decided to go that route for this matchup, my first in the tournament, and thus went for Foley. I want him to advance. Simple as that. Sorry to Tsuruta fans. Although no one really tried to sway me to vote

So yep, I voted for Mick Foley.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

I'm a Mick Foley fan, I just said it. But this is a wrestling tournament and this is Jumbo Tsuruta. The guy can out-wrestle some of the best (Misawa, Flair etc...) and by far Mick Foley is not one of the greatest wrestlers out there. Sure Foley could drag this into a brawl by I have no doubt that Jumbo could even match him in that aspect. Still not convinced well, here's a video to provide my point it's between Jumbo and a guy by the name of Cactus Jack, I;'m not sure I've heard of him, you might have. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2rg-OWTZOI

 

[Tastycles]

Mick Foley is entertaining, but the vast majority of his better matches have seen him lose. He lost to Mil Mascaras in WCW, which would suggest that he doesn'tt have any bones doing the job to foreign stars, and Jumbo is certainly that. I think this would probably be quite a poor match, as Foley isn't the best at the non weapons side of things and I doubt that they'd mesh very well, but fundaementally, he'd end up putting Tsuruta over.

 

[D-Man]

I just can't vote for Mick Foley in this tournament.

I know that there are thousands of marks that exist in this world who rate Foley to be this phenomenal superstar since his claim to fame was a series of brutal, hardcore matches. But I will never view him as anything more than a sideshow freak and stuntman.

I have always been an advocate of pure wrestling. I do not mark out for men that mutilated their bodies in order to entertain the fans. In my opinion, wrestling was never about flames, barbed wire, weapons, and blood. It was about the stories told in matches. Sure, many matches involved those concepts and resulted in a better story being told in the ring. But men like Mick Foley completely abused those ideologies and steered wrestling into a completely different direction... one that I do not enjoy as much as I did 20 years ago.

Therefore, my vote is for Tsuruta.

 

[X]

Only on an American wrestling forum would Foley go over Jumbo fucking Tsuruta. Seriously, just funny stuff here guys. Foley's experience in Japan consisted 99.9% of garbage wrestling deathmatches with fucking bombs set in a ring and the only people he beat in Japan were his fellow American counterparts like Terry Funk as well as some midcard garbage wrestlers from the ultra-hardcore Japanese indy scene of the mid 90s. We all love Foley, I love Foley, he's probably in my top ten if not even my top five favorite wrestlers of all time, but on no planet or country does he go over Jumbo Tsuruta. Ever. Jumbo defeated the best America had to offer in the United States on more than one occasion, whether it be Terry Funk, Harley Race, or Ric Flair, he beat all of the top stars in the US during their primes in Japan and occasionally in America. And you're telling me Jumbo can't handle Mick Foley? The guy who we all know was most famous for being the biggest jobber in main event history? Seriously, come on guys, we all love Foley but to claim he achieved even half of the success of a Jumbo Tsuruta or would be booked over him in any place outside of the backyard of Foley's childhood home is just not true. If Jumbo went over guys like Ric f'n Flair in the states, why exactly would he fall to Mick Foley, someone who Flair has beaten on more than one occasion?

I love Foley, but man, this match-up is definitely ending in the wrong man's favor.