Second Round : Denver - Shawn Michaels vs. Dory Funk Jr.

Discussion in 'The Chicago Region' started by klunderbunker, Apr 30, 2010.

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Who Wins This Matchup?

  1. Shawn Michaels

  2. Dory Funk Jr.

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This is a second round matchup in the Denver Subregion. The ring and arena are universal throughout the first round and the organization is not a factor. There is a 20 minute time limit. Vote using any criteria you like. Most votes in the poll at the end of the time period wins. In the case of a tie we will go off of the number of written votes. In the case of a second tie, both are eliminated. Assume one week has passed since the first match.

    Location: Pepsi Center, Denver, Colorado.

    [​IMG]

    Shawn Michaels

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    Vs.

    Dory Funk Jr.

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    Voting is open for 4 days.
     
    #1
  2. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    Here we go again.

    Shawn Michaels, really, as I've stated so many times before, in my eyes, the greatest all around wrestler to ever step inside the ring, this guy didn't need any titles to prove it, he didn't need to win matches to prove it, he went out there and performed his ass off for the crowd on a regular basic throughout 26 years (with 4 years break, but do we really need to get into that?) and has accomplished about as much as anybody could ever wish to accomplish.

    I've used this argument before, and I will use it again, Shawn doesn't need any specific match to feel at home, he's great as a singles competitor, as a tag team competitor and with insane brutal gimmick matches as well, it's no doubt that while Dory has accomplished a lot throughout his career, and has been inducted into the Hall of Fame, I will be ashamed if Shawn has to go out to Dory, or anybody that (like I mentioned) Isn't called Undertaker, Kurt Angle or Steve Austin.

    Shawn Michaels it is.
     
    #2
    Gabriiel07 likes this.
  3. PsychoBlack

    PsychoBlack Damn it feels good to be a Taylor!!

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    Dory funk didnt? this man went out everynight for over a year defending the most prestigious title in the world. He wrestled the likes of jack brisco ric flair harley race bruiser brody and stan hansen. the man is in 4 different wrestling hall of fames and drew wherever he went

    Vote funk
     
    #3
  4. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    Honestly, I don't know enough about Dory Funk, Jr. Let's check his wiki. Apparently he had the MOTY for 2 straight years, won titles in a bunch of organizations, some of which are bound to be important, and his students compete in a local show in Florida called !Bang! He also handily beat Jeff Hardy last round, surprising considering what Jeff has done the past few years.

    I really want to vote against HBK here. Funk seems like someone you could legitmately call a legend and it certainly wouldn't be a travesty if he were to win this match here. Plus, I'm sure someone will come in here and make a somewhat legit argument for him, so he gets my vote.

    Edit: There's the convincing argument. Ladies and gentlemen, listen to mah boi savage up there. He knows what he's talking about.
     
    #4
  5. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    I'm not saying Dory Funk didn't, but in my eyes Shawn Michaels did it with much more spectacular performances during the 90's when he was the top of the WWE, sticking around when times were bad, which proved to gain a major respect in my eyes because of his loyalty.

    You try to use the argument that Dory wrestled Jack Brisco, Ric Flair, Harley Race, Bruiser Brody and Stan Hansen, well let's look who Shawn wrestled, Hulk Hogan (once, lost I know, but that's not the point, I'm sure Dory didn't win all his matches neither) Bret Hart, The British Bulldog, Triple H, Stone Cold Steve Austin, John Cena, Batista, Kurt Angle, Ric Flair, Chris Benoit, and The Undertaker, the list goes on of greats that Shawn has wrestled, future hall of famers or already hall of famers that Shawn has wrestled, and beaten the majority (Stone Cold and Hulk Hogan being the only two of those)

    Shawn is in 1 hall of fame, without a shadow of a doubt due for another one sooner or later, and Shawn has by far put on the majority of great matches throughout those many years he's performed.

    Shawn has 10 PWI match of the year awards, 4 WON awards, and has been voted the 10th greatest wrestler during the PWI years in 2003, a feature Dory certainly can't brag about.

    Oh and..

    VOTE SHAWN
     
    #5
  6. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    Dory Funk, Jr. wrestled a schedule that would make an average person give out from exhaustion. HBK was a solid worker and is a legend himself, but Funk wrestled in a time where you had to be in outstanding shape, tough, and able to win under any circumstances, even in hostile environments.

    Funk is what HBK wanted to be as a wrestler. Only HBK lacks that one thing that I'm going to hammer on the entire tourney. Toughness. HBK wasn't known as a tough guy. He took a lot of punishment and has the endurance to hang with anyone in the business, but Dory Funk would know how to counter that. Just start beating on HBK. Eventually, Michaels will get frustrated, try something drastic and a veteran like Funk would make him pay dearly for it.

    I give this to Dory Funk in a 55 minute classic ending with a rollup from Funk after a desperate attempt at Sweet Chin Music from HBK.
     
    #6
  7. PsychoBlack

    PsychoBlack Damn it feels good to be a Taylor!!

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    Thank you for getting here before me lariat, and Ferbian you mention PWI and WON and i say who gives a shit what they think unless they have accounts on wrestlezone there not influencing this tournament.

    and by the way putting vote shawn in big bold letters does not make your argument better just for future reference
     
    #7
  8. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    Sure, but you cannot deny the fact that they're a brain for the business, having existed for an incredible long time, one of them is actually one of the Hall of Fames that put Dory in one of his 5.. (not 4) Hall of Fames.

    In my eyes, the fact that we even have someone who voted "match of the year" "wrestler of the year" etc. gives perfect ground for more to back up a talent, because it's a good convincing background for those who doesn't know him, to "hey vote here" and I'll admit I've used the PWI and WON rankings quite a lot through this tournament to also base a knowledge on the Japanese guys that I have absolutely no clue about, before I read up on them.

    And I'm not the first one to draw from WON and PWI rankings to put a reason for voting X talent, and I think the whole fact that Shawn has been awarded 14 match of the year awards (not counting Slammy Awards) just proves how great a talent he is.

    Oh gee I'm sorry, not big enough for ya?

    VOTE SHAWN

    on a more serious note, it's a decent kind of tactic, stands out much more for those who doesn't want to spend time reading a word fort searching for "Who did he vote for"

    Edit:

    While I may agree Shawn might not be the toughest son of a gun you can run into in this tournament, and Dory certainly has taken the beatings through his career, he is a tough guy, but I'd still go as far as to say that Shawn outshines Dory in every conceivable way when it comes to shape and athleticism, and talent wise.
    I'll even go as far as to say that Shawn could be able to out wrestle Dory rather decently.

    The younger Shawn would get frustrated, the elder Shawn didn't get frustrated, unless your name is freaking Mark Undertaker Calaway, and I think Shawn's "elder" person would be able to keep a calm mind, and eventually pop out a Sweet Chin Music that would knock Dory's teeth down his throat.

    I'm not gonna say Shawn isn't in for a tough fight in this one, but kayfabe wise and influence wise I'm gonna have a tough time giving it to Dory, because I think Shawn has influenced this business more in the ways tag team and high flying wrestling, but especially tag team wrestling, also we have to remember that Shawn was a part of some of the first now regular gimmick matches, an innovator of those matches you could even say. besides there's 3 reasons I'm also not gonna vote for Dory. 1. I'm the campaign runner for this guy, a huge fan, why wouldn't I be just a little biased unless I really doubt his ability to win it? 2. even as a regular fan I would've probably voted Shawn cause he's just the superior wrestler. 3. I can't undo my vote.
     
    #8
  9. dd23beatlesfan1

    dd23beatlesfan1 Getting Noticed By Management

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    I'm going to wait a bit to vote on this matchup. I'm still undecided. I'd like for someone to make a case for me in why I should vote for Shawn Michaels (most likely will be Ferbian), and also for someone to tell me why I should vote for Dory Funk Jr.

    Have at it guys :)
     
    #9
  10. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    I'm not sure about this one. Both of them were big players at transitional points in the history of wrestling, and the location doesn't really suit either of them. From a kayfabe point of view, there are very few indicators. Michaels had some great matches in the 90s, but aside from Bret Hart, ageing superheavyweights, Sid and filthy dirty wins over Undertaker, he didn't have any competition. Funk on the other hand beat Race, Pat O'Connor, the Briscos amongst others. I suppose I'm going to go for Funk, because I think he probably did more in his prime. Not to bothered either way.
     
    #10
  11. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    True, but you could argue that even though it might not have been in his definite prime, Shawn wrestled some tough guys in the 00's that certainly proved to show him as a strong competitor against strong competition, guys like Triple H, Kurt Angle, Ric Flair, Randy Orton, Batista, John Cena etc. as I've said soo many times the list goes on, of greats that Shawn has wrestled, who in my opinion proves to be definite competition (even though Ric Flair might not count cause he was definitely not in his prime!)

    Shawn has competed against todays and some of the former greats of the business, and has defeated them all at some point in their career, and he's lost matches I won't deny that, but so has Dory Funk quite obviously, I know this is gonna be a grueling match for both of them, but knowing the resilience of Shawn Michaels I have doubt in Dory's ability to come out on top in this one.
     
    #11
  12. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    Umm... yea, that's not true. Even SHAWN MICHAELS himself would laugh at that statement. The Funks were Gods in Texas wrestling and HBK knows that. The butterflies would be going and yes, even a tinge of nervousness, because he's wrestling an ICON himself in Dory Funk. I'll give you athleticism, but not wrestling. Because one thing that Dory Funk does nearly as good as anyone is wrestle. And chain wrestling, which would give HBK fits.

    It's possible. Then again, anything's possible. Dory Funk could have brass knucks and knock out HBK for all we know. :D

    Normally, I'd tear you a new one for this, but you're man enough to admit it. Shawn's more popular and he's your favorite wrestler. That's fine and is a good reason to vote for someone, but Dory Funk wouldn't be a slouch for HBK and would even beat him. That's all I wanted to prove here. And many younger guys would think HBK's a superior wrestler. Which can be true in most regards. Just not against Dory Funk, Jr.
     
    #12
  13. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    Sure I'm not discrediting Dory's ability to wrestle, but the whole "butterflies" thing, that's not gonna cut it, cause I believe Ric Flair said it himself, or maybe it was Triple H, either way it all comes down to the fact that someone said "No matter how long you've been in the business, if you don't feel the butterflies every time you're getting ready to go out there, then perhaps it's time to retire" (or something along those lines, the message is clear although) and therefore I think if Dory is a true wrestler, which he certainly is, his stomach will definitely be feeling it also.

    In truth you could say this is a rather difficult match, cause as far as I know, Dory Funk's reputation wasn't exactly circulating high flying wrestling, jumping from the turnbuckle and over the top rope for the sake of bringing your opponent down, therefore while they're much alike in the direction that they're both immensely talented chain wrestlers, they're still very different, and I think Shawn's high flying ability is gonna bring new stuff to the table for Dory, I really do.

    Let's hope the ref has eyes in the back then, or the booker has someone in the crowd on speed-dial to restart the match :rolleyes:
    Besides, Shawn could get a chair somehow if the ref was down, Smack him Undertaker 97 style.

    And boy am I grateful for that Lariat, It's not like I'm here to cause a feud or anything, I'm just debating Shawn through this tournament, and trust me I will be the reason for 50% of the post-counts in this thread if it means I'll get Shawn through it, I shall enjoy debating you.

    The problem about the whole "he's a better wrestler" always has to come down to the fact that.. "hey we have nothing to compare on, they never met!" which is a shame, cause I truly do agree Dory would be a challenge for Shawn, I will not discredit him that, but we can't properly judge because we have no past matches to judge from, which is where it might become easier in the later rounds (Say Kurt Angle and Shawn meet, perfect examples of both winning against each other, therefore something to judge from)

    And yeah voting because of preference is a great choice, the shame is about the amount of people we have on this forum to vote, and the incredible amount of ways to vote for said wrestler, because there's no limits to ways to vote for anybody, and I'll admit I've been biased, and I've voted out on lack of knowledge at some point during this tournament, but to end finish it off, this is not the case, and in my eyes, Shawn is the rightful winner of this one.
     
    #13
  14. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
    Staff Member Moderator

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    Meh, I'm just not really buying into a lot of arguments for Dory Funk, Jr. Not to take anything away from him as the term legend can be and should be legitimately applied to him. Dory Funk, Jr. was the NWA World Heavyweight Champion for about 4.5 years and worked an absolutely grueling schedule and did have wins over some of the best.

    However, I don't really buy into the kind of shape one necessarily had to be in back in the day, though it certainly did help. Looking back at a lot of these older wrestlers, many of them weren't exactly in what might be considered athletic shape and, in Dory Funk's day, it wasn't an uncommon thing for a wrestler to be kept in something like a side headlock or an armbar for 10 or 12 minutes at a time. I think that HBK has shown in the past that he can do well grappling on the mat and he does have a fast paced offense that I'm not sure Dory, Jr. would be able to counter.

    I'm not really sure which way I'm going for this as I think Funk possibly could take HBK down, but part of me also feels that there are some a little too caught up in the "he's a legend" argument.
     
    #14
  15. ScreaminNormanSmiley

    ScreaminNormanSmiley formerly ScreaminNormanSmiley

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    i think the fact that he is a legend and was the nwa a champion for 4.5 years is a legitimate arguement. he held the top title in the world for well over three years longer than hbks combined wwe title reigns. and you do have to be in great shape to put on hour long matches consistantley even with longer rest holds, especially if your going to wrestle as long as dory did.

    also hbk has proven he can grapple but nowere near the level of dory. and hbks fast pace offense isnt going to matter when dory has him in constant submission and makes him tap.
     
    #15
  16. PsychoBlack

    PsychoBlack Damn it feels good to be a Taylor!!

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    Dory's offense would tire the hell out of michaels. because he just layed on you and hit you over and over and over again. shawn wouldnt have the energy to use his "highflying and speed" dory trained wrestlers who beat shawn clean and nobody teaches anyone everything that they know so as Ferbian mentioned kurt angle was able to use some of dorys knowledge to beat shawn then why wouldnt dory be able to beat him using everything that he knows
     
    #16
  17. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    Yet you also have to remember the fact that Shawn Michaels has defeated Kurt Angle as well.

    And the whole thing about Shawn being unable to get to a point where he can use his agility and speed can't possibly be right, considering the immense power houses he's succeeded to do it against, power houses and technical "monsters" which could be considered far superior to Dory himself.

    He's excelled very well against the likes of John Cena, a power house, Undertaker, a power house, Bret Hart, a technical wonder child (so to say) and Ric Flair himself, who could be considered a powerful guy while very technical and calculating.

    To say that Dory's abilities could exceed the chances of Shawn actually getting proper offense in, would be a lie, it's all about getting the upper hand quickly, and Shawn, just as well as Dory could succeed in during that.
     
    #17
  18. PsychoBlack

    PsychoBlack Damn it feels good to be a Taylor!!

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    so im about to show you a dory funk match and how he wrestled remember this is a 240 pound man
    [YOUTUBE]MD-Y7dIu3pQ[/YOUTUBE]
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    [YOUTUBE]vg_vTEST18o[/YOUTUBE]
    [YOUTUBE]ZNpjN19uhOw[/YOUTUBE]
    [YOUTUBE]I5nbXOwQEW4[/YOUTUBE]
    [YOUTUBE]6lGb20ZJou4[/YOUTUBE]
    [YOUTUBE]UUXn2kNORLk[/YOUTUBE]
    Jack brisco was 10 pounds heavier than michaels and a far better wrestler in his prime than michaels and Funk stayed on him the entire match shawn wouldnt be able to take that type of punishment as his matches are just rest hold big spot rest hold funk inflicted pain at every opporutunity he could as soon as michaels would have tried his "high octane" offense funk would have been right there on his ass bringing him back to the mat eventually putting in the spinnig toe hold making michaels tap
     
    #18
  19. DirtyJosé

    DirtyJosé Best angle of all: retirement

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    Kayfabe: HBK would be a splatter mark on the mat if it we pretend this was a real contest. Dory Funk Jr. hits like a boulder, over and over, and wins not just by being the better technician but also a better thinker.

    Performance: Dory Funk Jr. wins the comparison as to who the better fighter is, but there is a lot more to the game than just the matches. HBK's legacy in the industry can not be doubted, and much of it is based on his natural sense of showmanship, charisma, and his flashy ring work that allowed him to take off as a larger than life superstar.

    Personal: Dory Funk Jr. is as hard hitting, smash mouth old school as you can get, but being honest I must admit that I hold HBK in fairly high esteem on nostalgia value. In a strict kayfabe vacuum fight, Dory would take this, but that's not how the tournament is set up. Even if I'm not his biggest fan, if I'm being honest I have to say that HBK plays a BIG part in why I even started watching this stuff. He gets my vote here.
     
    #19
  20. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    Just because Jack Brisco was 10 pounds heavier and a better wrestler, (which could be argued) it wouldn't exactly mean that Shawn Michaels wouldn't know a move that neither Dory or Jack would know that exists only today, that would instantly put Shawn in the superior race if he's able to use that hold to his advantage to escape one of Dory's submission or "I'm wearing ya down boy" holds..

    Let's remember, Jack Brisco and Shawn Michaels are definitely a different style, Shawn Michaels being very high speed high flying, which as far as I recall, Jack Brisco isn't, or to say the least not in the caliber that Shawn Michaels is.

    It's two different era's, different holds and techniques have been introduced, and Shawn has barely retired, so Shawn would be pretty up to date, where as Dory hasn't wrestled on a regular basic for many years as far as I would recall.

    Shawn has wrestled with guys who brought him "right back to the mat" guys like Kurt Angle and Bret Hart (if you remember their Iron Man Match, Bret would be in the leading position with the holds for about 10 minutes time, I can't remember exactly, but for a major part of the first half hour, but Shawn won..)
     
    #20
  21. PsychoBlack

    PsychoBlack Damn it feels good to be a Taylor!!

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    Dory Funk retired in 2008 thats not long ago at all and he still continues to train wrestlers so im pretty sure hes up to date with all of these holds. and as you said jack and shawn were very different but dory funk had the same advantage over both of them size and strength. Dory was one of the smartest wrestlers ever and would target shawns major weakness, his back, this injury forced shawn to retire and dory was ruthless in his attack and shawn would be in immense pain and his pain threshold is not very high as we have already discussed his toughness which should of had him losing to dory a long time ago
     
    #21
  22. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    I know he retired in 2008, but what regular active in-ring competition did he partake in between the 96 Royal Rumble (which wasn't even a regular one), his Wikipedia page kinda dies there, until the whole "sporadic appearances" section where the only match part is mentioned to be:

    That's about 12 years without any track of proper regular wrestling, he slowly dazed out of the active wrestling world (if you're to count on Wikipedia on this one) around the time Shawn became huge to the wrestling world.

    And yes he trained wrestlers, but just because he passed on techniques that was good in his career, doesn't necessarily mean that he taught the wrestlers moves that could work in todays business, and yes I know he trained the likes of Christian, Edge and Kurt Angle to name a few, who has definitely a great array of moves up their sleeves, but it's all people Shawn at some point in his career has defeated, be it in singles competition, tag team competition or "multiple opponent competition" (Triple Threat, Fatal Four Way etc.).
    Although I have to admit I'm a little unsure about Christian, but looking at the long list of people Shawn has defeated, I'm pretty sure his abilities in his prime would both outshine, and eventually over rumble Christian to a clean defeat.

    Sure he's smart, sure he'd go after Shawn's back, but everybody has done that in the 00's really, so it's not really a big thing, besides if we're to talk prime, many people would probably consider Shawn Michaels prime to be in 96-98 where his back was completely fine (for the first months time of 98 to say the least, but he still wrestled very tough matches against Undertaker and Stone Cold at Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania 14, taking some heavy bumps, if that's not tough, resilient whatever you call it, I don't know what) and therefore Dory wouldn't have a weakness to target in the back, now if we're to talk over all career, sure he has the back, but Shawn again, is very resilient, remember how many brutal matches he wrestled with the one guy that knows him the best? Triple H? who definitely went for the back.
    Everybody has gone for the back, it won't be any different for Dory yes, but Shawn has come out on top a lot of times.
     
    #22
  23. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Gotta go with HBK here.

    Given his recent retirement, I expect him to get a lot of votes in this tournament. But if you really break it down, HBK was a much better wrestler than Dory Funk. This is another example of a more recent superstar with a stronger, more modern style of wrestling taking down a superstar with an obsolete style.

    HBK is light years ahead of Funk in everything having to do with the wrestling biz. Therefore, I feel he's the stronger superstar.
     
    #23
  24. TwistofRKO

    TwistofRKO The Legend Killer himself

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    Dory Funk may be great and all, but he's no Shawn Michaels, whom only a distinct few have a legitimate claim to be mentioned in the same league as him, yet alone better. Dory Funk isn't one of them.

    I don't like HBK, and will look out for the match-up to try to vote him out. There are no rules for the voting, but if you vote against HBK, it can only be due to being a big Funk fan, or extreme HBK hater, because Funk sure wasn't better.

    7 of 10 Match of the Year recognitions in the 2000s alone, including the past 6, all after returning from a career-threatening back injury. Seriously, do the right thing and vote for the obvious answer.
     
    #24

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