First Round: Denver - Booker T vs. Bruno Sammartino

[Big Sexy]

Sammartino's a real man. He wouldn't fuck around with no Slurpies. Those are for wimps.

Real men drink slurpies. Fact.

Bruno would take that saber, break it in half, and stick it straight up Booker's ass.

Actually he'd take it and give it a bear hug for 5 minutes.

Didn't Booker T get his ass whipped in a grocery store after that?

Nah man he and Austin were just shopping.

Looked like it was just Goldust and that women when it was all said and done. Bruno would have thrown Goldust out the window. Maybe the woman too.

You're just showing how smart Booker is. When a dude gets in bed with you, dipset.

I'll take a guy who was great in the 70's over somebody who was a midcarder for life. I don't hear anybody say "Hey, remember that great Booker T match."

Mid carders for life don't have 6 world championships to their record. And Booker T had tons of great matches in his career. His best of 7 series with Benoit was classic stuff.

 

[Big Sexy]

He lost to Scott Steiner, he lost to Triple H, he lost to Vince Russo (!), he lost to Stone Cold, he lost to the Rock, he lost to Edge, he lost to Christian, he lost to midcard John Cena, he lost to to JBL, he lost to Kurt Angle, he lost to the freaking BOOGEYMAN, he lost to Bobby Lashley, he lost to Kane, he lost to the Undertaker, he lost to Triple H AGAIN...in TNA, he was never a true Main Eventer, and even in the MEM he was the tag guy/jobber. These are all feuds. He won the odd match against these guys, but lost the war almost every time. Even his best individual wins were usually with outside help, like Orton saving him in the Best of 7 series or KEVIN FEDERLINE saving him against Main Event John Cena.

Booker T also beat the majority of those guys on your list plus some other big names including Goldberg. There isn't anybody in the wrestling business currently that doesn't have tons of losses on their record some to lesser opponents. Gone are the days of multi year title reigns. Vote for the better, more entertaining wrestler in Booker T.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

It's not just that he lost individual matches, it's that he lost the WARS. He lost the feuds constantly, far more then he won. I'm not sure if Sammartino EVER lost a feud.

 

[Big Sexy]

It's not just that he lost individual matches, it's that he lost the WARS. He lost the feuds constantly, far more then he won. I'm not sure if Sammartino EVER lost a feud.

Again this is two completely different eras. There are a lot of big time faces from the past that rarely lost because that's how everything was booked back then. It's hard to compare guys from that era to guys from this era. Which is why in these types of matches I usually go with the guy who just an all around better wrestler and performer, and in this case it's Booker T.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Again this is two completely different eras. There are a lot of big time faces from the past that rarely lost because that's how everything was booked back then. It's hard to compare guys from that era to guys from this era. Which is why in these types of matches I usually go with the guy who just an all around better wrestler and performer, and in this case it's Booker T.

Not true at all. That's why I differentiated between feuds and matches. How often did Hogan lose a feud? Stone Cold? Ric Flair? The Rock? Exactly my point. A truly top level wrestler RARELY loses the feud. He loses a battle here and there, maybe, but not the war, not nearly as much as Booker T did.

 

[Big Sexy]

Not true at all. That's why I differentiated between feuds and matches. How often did Hogan lose a feud? Stone Cold? Ric Flair? The Rock? Exactly my point. A truly top level wrestler RARELY loses the feud. He loses a battle here and there, maybe, but not the war, not nearly as much as Booker T did.

In this tournament it IS just one match. It ISN'T a feud where these guys are going to have multiple matches. I'm not claiming that Booker T was ever on the level of a Hogan, Austin, or Rock. I'm just saying that Bruno Sammartino was dull as fuck. I don't care how long he was champion and how many feuds he won. He was in that position because there was no one better. The NWA had the bigger stars at that point and the WWWF needed a top babyface with the right look. Sammartino at that point in time fit the bill. It doesn't change the fact that he wasn't entertaining at all. Booker T is the better professional wrestler.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

In this tournament it IS just one match. It ISN'T a feud where these guys are going to have multiple matches. I'm not claiming that Booker T was ever on the level of a Hogan, Austin, or Rock. I'm just saying that Bruno Sammartino was dull as fuck. I don't care how long he was champion and how many feuds he won. He was in that position because there was no one better. The NWA had the bigger stars at that point and the WWWF needed a top babyface with the right look. Sammartino at that point in time fit the bill. It doesn't change the fact that he wasn't entertaining at all. Booker T is the better professional wrestler.

I have to disagree. He may be your preferred wrestler, that's fine, but this is pro wrestling, and greatness is measured by how many asses you put in the seat. Bruno is undoubtedly the superior professional wrestler. He made a larger impact on the business and he drew much, much more money. And the NWA didn't really have the biggest stars, the only star they had comparable to Bruno was Flair, and Bruno was more well-known then Flair was. Bruno is noted for selling out in the northeast, notably MSG, but he also drew huge crowds wherever he went, including in California with Bockwinkel, in St. Louis, in Canada, etc. He may not be terribly dynamic in-ring, but he inspired more emotion then Booker T could ever hope to. So like I said, unless we're just going to turn this into a "who do I like better as a worker" tournament (notice I didn't say professional wrestler, because work rate and move set are only one very small part of the equation), Bruno deserves to go over Booker T.

 

[Big Sexy]

I have to disagree. He may be your preferred wrestler, that's fine, but this is pro wrestling, and greatness is measured by how many asses you put in the seat. Bruno is undoubtedly the superior professional wrestler. He made a larger impact on the business and he drew much, much more money. And the NWA didn't really have the biggest stars, the only star they had comparable to Bruno was Flair, and Bruno was more well-known then Flair was. Bruno is noted for selling out in the northeast, notably MSG, but he also drew huge crowds wherever he went, including in California with Bockwinkel, in St. Louis, in Canada, etc. He may not be terribly dynamic in-ring, but he inspired more emotion then Booker T could ever hope to. So like I said, unless we're just going to turn this into a "who do I like better as a worker" tournament (notice I didn't say professional wrestler, because work rate and move set are only one very small part of the equation), Bruno deserves to go over Booker T.

There are many things that go into being a professional wrestler. To me the main things are in ring work, mic work, entertainment value, and drawing ability. The only one Bruno has is drawing ability and like I said earlier that's more of a right place, right time thing. A top babyface was needed, he had the look to fit the bill and they ran with it. What other faces did the WWWF have during that time to fit the bill? Once a guy did come along in Pedro Morales the switch was made for a while. I'm not going to deny Sammartino's accomplishments and impact on the industry but Booker T should go over here.

 

[deem]

Finally got my account back on.

I completely agree, Sammartino would not be great in this tournament. I cannot see him getting a huge push through this tourney if it was booked to happen. That said, he is too good to go out to a transitional main eventer in round one. I love Booker, he is SO entertaining, but I still don't think he has enough to cope with the ground and grind style Sammartino will bring.

 

[Big Sexy]

I love Booker, he is SO entertaining, but I still don't think he has enough to cope with the ground and grind style Sammartino will bring.

If Booker T can cope with Bill Goldberg and the Big Show and beat them then I highly doubt he'd have trouble with Sammartino. Shit, Booker T beat Big Show and John Cena in a triple threat a few years ago to become the Champion of Champions.

All of this is irrelevant anyways because after seeing this Sammartino would be too scared to show up.

[youtube]a1o82BVKFp8[/youtube]

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Big Show disappeared for the last ten minutes of that match and I mean literally because I didn't see him.

I guess Booker T has Kevin Federline on speed dial to help him out if need be.

 

[ServantofTwilight]

Theo hitman Mays said-Bruno should and probably will win, but I'm going to vote for Booker for the sake that it isn't too onesided.

That worked out well.

Big Sexy said-I'm still waiting for a legitimate reason of why Sammartino should win other then "He was champion for a really long time so he must be good." I realize there isn't one so it hasn't been posted yet but at least give it a shot.

Because he was great in the ring. Because he could power or mat wrestle. Because he was a big draw not only in the northeast but also Canada, California, Japan, Austrailia and Europe. Because he has had memoriable bouts that are still remembered today against the likes of Stan Hansan, Ivan Kololf, Billy Graham, Haystacks Calhoun, Larry Zysbzko, Pedro Moralas, Roddy Piper and Randy Savage. Because he is on the MSG Walk of Fame. Because he was so charismatic and so over with the crowd that they did not anounce Kololf as the champ for fear of a riot.

Mighty Norcal said- Yea, Sammartino is shit, and dominated in a weak assed era.

And it was weak assed why?

Mighty Norcal said- i get sick of people voting on someone whom they have never seen, been influenced by, or gave a fuck about.

And I get sick of people only voting for the ones they know without taking the time to learn about the ones they don't.

Mighty Norcal said- Sold out MSG, whatever. So has Booker T.

Bruno sold out MSG more then any other wrestler ever. When did Booker T sell it out?

Big Sexy said- If Ivan Koloff can beat Bruno then I'm sure Booker T could beat him

Kololf was a big huge heel when he beat Bruno, not Uncle Ivan from the 80s. And Booker was pinned by the Boogeyman and submited to The Shockmaster. Who wins that one. Oh, and he submited to a bearhug. Didn't Bruno win matches with a bearhug?

Mr. TM. said- Not sure why Bruno is winning this, he held the region WWE belt for a long time, when it was more regional than it had been, and has never been as regional as when Bruno had it.

Because Bruno was better. And if you are going to call the WWWF title regional then you must call the NWA or AWA titles regional at the time. Bruno defended the title all over. Mainly in the northeast, but also out west and overseas. Here is a portion of an interview Bruno did with the Baltimore Sun( Booker ever interviewed by a real paper? )

When I was champion for the first eight years, they had me on such a ridiculous schedule. I was hurting from head to toe. I was wrestling every single night. Two Sundays out of the month, I would go to Toronto because I had spent two years there and I had promised [promoter] Frank Tunney — who gave me a break and was a good man — that when I went back to [the WWWF] that I would still come in when he wanted me for the Maple Leaf Gardens. So, two weeks out of the month I would wrestle seven days a week, and the other two weeks I would wrestle six days a week and get to go home on Sunday. I was also making tours to Japan and Australia. [Vince McMahon Sr.] would not run Madison Square Garden without me, so he would always arrange my trips so that I would wrestle in the Garden on Monday and leave Tuesday morning for Japan or Australia. And I’d have to be back for the next Garden show. When I got through with a tour, I wouldn’t even go home. I’d be flying in from Australia or Japan to New York to be there in time for the Garden.

But you know it was not because he was great that he was needed all over. It was he was just a big face is all.

The Ronination said- I tend to agree with the Booker side of the argument. Booker was a star when there wasn't just one star. Sure there were other stars around in Bruno's day but, compared to the star power Booker has wreslted, it is piss all.

Booker was a star of a dying company. Bruno was the star that carried a company.

Big Sexy said- Sammartino at that point in time fit the bill. It doesn't change the fact that he wasn't entertaining at all.

Now it is your turn for an answer. How did Bruno rule the WWWF, draw more then anyone in (W)WW(F)E history, sell out MSG more then anyone, hold the title longer then anyone, be voted by the NWA to go over Thesz for the NWA title in 65, wrestle a 70 minute time limit draw vs Moralas at a sold out Shea, finish a match with Hansan with a broken neck, come back and wrestle the rematch with his neck still broken and kick Hansans ass, headline other shows including the Showdown at Shea, be so beloved that the WWWF was afraid of riots when he lost to Kololf, and he be no good at all?

Big Sexy said- Once a guy did come along in Pedro Morales the switch was made for a while.

No. Bruno decided to take a break as his schedule was killing him. Bruno was allowed to hand pick his successer. He chose Moralas. To help get Moralas over he wrestled a rare face vs face match at Shea with him. Once Bruno was ready to come back Moralas dropped the belt and it was put back on Bruno for another 3 years. Are you saying that from 63 to 77 there was only one other man good enough to be WWWF champ? Or is it that there was no one better then Bruno?

These results amaze me. Bruno is the Living Legend. He was an innovater. He 'Hulked up ' years before Hogan. He flipped people off years before Austin. He whipped Rogers and carried an upstart company for 17years. He is in every wrestling Hall of Fame( except the WWE ). He is in the Italion/American Hall of Fame. He is one of the biggest draws ever. One of the most beloved stars ever.

And he is losing to a guy whose biggest claim to fame is the Spin a roni and a best of 7 for a TV title. Sad.

 

[Big Sexy]

That worked out well.



Because he was great in the ring. Because he could power or mat wrestle. Because he was a big draw not only in the northeast but also Canada, California, Japan, Austrailia and Europe. Because he has had memoriable bouts that are still remembered today against the likes of Stan Hansan, Ivan Kololf, Billy Graham, Haystacks Calhoun, Larry Zysbzko, Pedro Moralas, Roddy Piper and Randy Savage. Because he is on the MSG Walk of Fame. Because he was so charismatic and so over with the crowd that they did not anounce Kololf as the champ for fear of a riot.

You said in this statement that Bruno was great in the ring and charismatic. How am I supposed to take you seriously? I realize it was a different time but he has to be one of the most boring in ring workers of all time. Success doesn't make you a great in ring worker. And charismatic? You've got to be kidding me. He had about as much charisma as a 90 year old senile women.

Now it is your turn for an answer. How did Bruno rule the WWWF, draw more then anyone in (W)WW(F)E history, sell out MSG more then anyone, hold the title longer then anyone, be voted by the NWA to go over Thesz for the NWA title in 65, wrestle a 70 minute time limit draw vs Moralas at a sold out Shea, finish a match with Hansan with a broken neck, come back and wrestle the rematch with his neck still broken and kick Hansans ass, headline other shows including the Showdown at Shea, be so beloved that the WWWF was afraid of riots when he lost to Kololf, and he be no good at all?

There's a huge difference between being over and being good. Hillbilly Jim was insanely over, that didn't make him good.

 

[ServantofTwilight]

Oh dear.

All quotes from Big Sexy.

You said in this statement that Bruno was great in the ring and charismatic. How am I supposed to take you seriously?

Simply by looking at the facts. He wrestled at the top of the game for basically his whole career. He mainevented cards and was the longest reigning champ. He was beloved by the fans world wide. He wrestled what are considered classic matches against the likes of Zybszko(sp), Hansan and Moralas. He went overseas and battled the likes of Giant Baba. He was offered another promotions world title. Just because you don't like him does not take away from his accomplishments. I don't like Hogan but I understand what he has done.

And charismatic? You've got to be kidding me. He had about as much charisma as a 90 year old senile women.

Hell yes he was charimatic. He was beloved by the fans. They flocked and sold out venues to see him. And this was without cable TV or satalite. An advertisement would be made and people would come. How is he not charismatic. There was stunned silence when he lost to Kololf and the WWWF decided not to announce the title change to the crowd for fear of riots. If that is not charisma then tell me what is.

There's a huge difference between being over and being good.

True, but a weak point. I could argue the same for Booker, Hogan and a host of others.

Hillbilly Jim was insanely over, that didn't make him good.

Now it is my turn to ask if you should be taken seriously. First, Hillbilly was not insanly over. In fact his popularity was due to his friendship with Hogan. Once that storyline died out so did Hillbilly. Second, did Hillbilly mainevent shows? Was he ever the top guy in the company? Is he in multiple Hall of Fames? Is he called a Living Legend? Was he over everwhere he went including overseas?

Comparing Sammartino to Hillbilly Jim is pathetic at best; idiotic at worst.

 

[Big Sexy]

Simply by looking at the facts. He wrestled at the top of the game for basically his whole career. He mainevented cards and was the longest reigning champ. He was beloved by the fans world wide. He wrestled what are considered classic matches against the likes of Zybszko(sp), Hansan and Moralas. He went overseas and battled the likes of Giant Baba. He was offered another promotions world title. Just because you don't like him does not take away from his accomplishments. I don't like Hogan but I understand what he has done.

When did I ever down talk his accomplishments? I said he wasn't good in the ring and all you have given me is a bunch of accomplishments. There isn't a correlation between accomplishments and in ring ability. Dean Malenko was great in the ring and didn't win any major titles. The Ultimate Warrior was complete shit and is a former World Champion.

Hell yes he was charimatic. He was beloved by the fans. They flocked and sold out venues to see him. And this was without cable TV or satalite. An advertisement would be made and people would come. How is he not charismatic. There was stunned silence when he lost to Kololf and the WWWF decided not to announce the title change to the crowd for fear of riots. If that is not charisma then tell me what is.

He had the title based on look and was loved by fans because he was billed as the top face and defeated all the top heels. He was very well respected as well he should have been but I don't see the appeal. I guess I may be willing to give him the charismatic thing because the fans did care for whatever reason but he still had no personality and was boring as fuck.

Now it is my turn to ask if you should be taken seriously. First, Hillbilly was not insanly over. In fact his popularity was due to his friendship with Hogan. Once that storyline died out so did Hillbilly. Second, did Hillbilly mainevent shows? Was he ever the top guy in the company? Is he in multiple Hall of Fames? Is he called a Living Legend? Was he over everwhere he went including overseas?

Comparing Sammartino to Hillbilly Jim is pathetic at best; idiotic at worst.

Reading comprehension is a skill you should probably learn. I never directly compared Hillbilly Jim to Bruno. I used Hillbilly Jim as an example of a guy being over but not necessarily good at what he did.

Bruno lost. Booker T won. Get over it.