Screw the politics and BS, and guess what? Hulk Hogan did what was right.

[KillBill]

As a huge Hogan mark, and someone who defends him against Steve Austin as being the best superstar ever, I'm going to take a different look at the history of wrestling during the Hulkamania era.

As wrestling fans today, with all the books, shoot interviews, and internet, we find out the behind the scenes info and bs that goes on in pro wrestling, going back years. Now lets forget all that, lets put it out of our minds for a second. Lets go back to when we were kids, and loved, I mean LOVED wrestling. With a passion. Back when Hulkamania was running wild, back when he was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

We often hear of how superstars were held back because of Hogan, and never got a shot. We hear how he wouldn't put guys over because of his ego. But that is what made wrestling as big as it was and still is.

As a kid, we did not want Hogan to lose. Ever. When he lost to Andre, we were crushed. When he lost to Warrior, it was 50/50, but we were still crushed. Lets say Hogan had put over Piper or Savage. Do we think the company would still be as big? Would either of those guys have successfully carried the company? Savage did it for a year, but was it a success? there were rumors that Perfect was gonna win the 1990 Royal Rumble. Would we as huge Maniacs bought that? Hell no. WWF needed someone who had star all over them. Someone who had the charisma and look to carry the torch after Hogan. There was one man who fit that mold, and Hogan put him over. He was the Ultimate Warrior.

Warrior was the 1 guy that had the look to succeed, and guess what? Hogan put him over. Warrior had a decent reign, but he failed. He couldn't take it, demanded more money and left. So the best chance for someone to carry the company after Hogan failed. You wonder why he didn't give guys the rub, what was the point, if they were gonna be a bust? Don't lie and say you were not pumped every time he won the belt back, because you knew it didn't seem right on anyone else.

I guess my point is, is that we can bitch about how he didn't put guys over, but was he not right? I don't believe the company could have gone huge with a guy like Piper, or Perfect, or even Savage, because they didn't have that superstar look. They had the ability, but thats not everything. everyone agrees that the worse years in the WWF were 93-95, and that was post Hogan era. You had great performers, but no "Hogan". I guess I feel he gets way too much criticiszm for not giving the rub, but you know what? As a kid, as someone who loved wrestling, loved Hulkamania, I doubt wrestling would have been great without him.

Thoughts? Lets keep the bashing down. i'm hoping looking as this from the prospective of young wrestling fans, we can see that it was maybe the right thing to do?

 

[Grizzly0u812]

Hulk Hogan knew how to play to the crowd, get the fans going, draw the numbers, you do not just rub someone because when you give someone your stamp of approval it means something, if you just give every joe a push then your credibiltiy goes down the toilet.

Hogan gave a lot but also took care of himself also which is smart, let people get notice but keep yourself in the loop.

I have always been a Hogan fan, yeah some people hate him but think about it, a lot of what he did paved the road so other wrestlers could have an easier time and bigger paychecks am I right

 

[Davi323]

Hulk Hogan was necessary for pro wrestling to become as popular as it has. I agree with you, that people bitching about Hogan in the 80s, not putting anyone over, fail to understand the significance of Hogan's WWF run. If Hogan is just one of many champs, sharing the belt with Savage, Junkyard Dog, King Kong Bundy, etc, basically, if the 80s had the same merry-go-round attitudes towards titles that wrestling does today, is Wrestlemania III remembered? Would a Hogan/Andre passing the torch match have mattered at all, of Hogan wasn't "special"? Andre the Giant was probably the most famous wrestler of all time. He wasn't just a wrestler, he was an attraction, in and of himself. As such, he can't pass the torch to just anybody. He has to pass it to someone who is also an attraction, and not just a wrestler. That is Hulk Hogan, and only because Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon MADE Hulk Hogan an attraction. People love to bitch about Hogan being a belt hog, but, it worked. It fucking worked. Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon (I give equal credit to both, neither could have done it without the other) brought wrestling into the mainstream. That not only benefited the WWF, it eventually helped the NWA become WCW, and it even is helping TNA today. Without Hulk Hogan's belt hogging, if you want to call it that, you still probably have territory based wrestling, because Vince's goal of creating a global wrestling company would have most likely failed without a Hulk Hogan to be the face of the company. Having someone keep the belt for that long isn't necessary anymore, but, back then, with everything Vince and the WWF were trying to accomplish, it was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. For the WWF to become what it became, Vince needed his own Muhammed Ali. He needed a Gordie Howe, a Babe Ruth, his own Michael Jordan. So, he created one. And in doing so, he gave his company an identity, an image, and changed the face of pro wrestling.

 

[CaptainZaltan]

To be blunt, I just don't get it. I liked Hogan when I was about 5 - 10 years old, because at that time I thought that pro wrestling was real and I wanted to cheer for the 'best'. It's the exact same reason kids today cheer for John Cena. In my opinion it could have been ANYONE in that position booked in that manner, and I would have cheered for them. Kids simply don't know any better. By the time I was about 10 years old, Hogan started to bother me. I started to prefer Jake Roberts, Randy Savage, Ted Debiase, Bret Hart, etc. And over the years, I've found Hogan less and less entertaining.

My point? I never bought into this nostalgia factor that seemingly keeps some fans hero-worshiping Hulk Hogan well into adult-hood. By the way you've phrased your post, you make it sound as though you do, and that you believe Hogan's detractors are merely 'closet' Hogan fans who just need to be properly motivated to drop the pretense and admit that they love Hogan too. Before I address anything else you've said, I need to point out that this assumption is mistaken. I don't like Hogan, and haven't for a long time. I've been watching wrestling for over 20 years and I don't remember a Hulk Hogan match that didn't make me want to kick my television. The man just bothers me. I don't find him entertaining, and I really don't get what the 'hulkamaniacs' see in him.

As for his contribution to professional wrestling? No doubt it was massive. But I don't believe that Hulk Hogan is solely responsible for the success of the WWF in the 80's, or 90's. There was a lot more involved in turning WWE into the powerhouse it is today than Hulk Hogan, such as the combining of the various territories, the launch of PPV, the writing, and the vast assortment of colorful characters. Hogan was the flagship, but not the whole navy, so to speak.

Nor do I think that you can conclude that the WWF wouldn't have been as popular in the 80's without Hogan, or that pushing other talent to title runs would have hurt the WWF in any way. How can you conclude that? Where's the evidence? There's no way to separate the contributions of Hulk Hogan from the place, the time, and the mind of Vince Mcmahon, to weigh each one appropriately. There's no way to know that a guy like Randy Savage, or Barry Wyndham, or Ricky Steamboat couldn't have been as big as Hulk Hogan if they had the same push and the same machine backing them. The highest exposure period for the WWE happened without Hulk Hogan, and at a time when title changes were FAR more prevalent. Countless performers contributed to make that happen. How do you know that the 80's wouldn't have been even BIGGER if Jake the Snake or Randy Savage or Ted Debiase had a turn carrying the gold? We can't know, because that time has come and gone. All you have is your opinion, which you admit is biased as a 'As a huge Hogan mark'.

Give me something more specific, rather than a generic 'Hogan was right' (because noone is absolutely right or absolutely wrong all of the time) and I'll comment on whether or not I agree with you.

 

[Azogan v.2.0]

I agree with MOSTLY everything you said, and i am a big Hogan mark also, (maybe not so much now, but i understand where you are coming from) when you were little you didn't know and really didn't care what the politics were in wrestling, you just wanted to see the good guy beat the bad guy. Hogan WAS a believable champion and i agree that for a period of time, you really didn't believe anyone else as champion because Hogan was so loved. That being said, I look back now and I wish Hall of Famers like Curt Hennings, Jake "The Snake", Piper, and so to be Ted Dibiase had there run at the championship, you look back at their matches alone and they wrestled circles around Hogan, but the machine was already in full force. Just makes you think how some of the greats cant say that they were WWF champion, but a guy like Shemaus can, but I digress.

Warrior was a believable "substitute" for Hulkamania mostly because they were in great part the same model, charisma, legion of fans, marketable, and didn't have to put on a five star wrestling match to draw. Come to think about it, can anybody tell me a five star match Hogan or Warrior had? Probably not, but i guarantee you can remember a five star match by guys like Piper, Hennings, Jake and DiBiase, and for that matter Savage. I dont think your giving these guys enough respect, (minus Savage)I think we as kids would have loved to see these guys as champion even if it did lead to Hogan getting the title right back. I would also say that back then seeing Hogan as champion was great, but the machine that was WWF was already HUGE, and i just dont think Hogan not being champion would have damaged that, Vince made money having Hogan with the title and him chasing it. so i disagree in regard the "ship sinking" without Hogan's hands on the gold. And guys like Piper, Savage, DiBiase, they DID have the look. Think about it, we as kids wouldn't had brought into their characters if they didnt.

Lastly, ill say, in defense of Hogan, ALL of the greats he feuded with, and in most instances it was for the title, you just had Hogan prevailing, and we as kids were happy so from a business standpoint i understand why they kept the title on Hogan for all the time they did, you nailed it when you said "IT WORKED" but Hogan is always going to get somebody's two cents good or bad. I dont fault what politics made him back then, and the politics that kept greats from not winning the title, but in my opinion, if giving the ball, the think it would have worked. Undertaker is still around isnt he? Most of the non champions will be Hall of Famers and are forever remembered. So wrestling wouldnt be what it is without him, but i tend to think the cast of WWF characters that surrounded him probably dont get as much credit as they should. What's a lead actor without its supporting cast?

 

[wazaveli]

Its ok to say someone else could of been given a shot to do what Hogan did but I doubt it. I mean ignoring the marketing and the merchandise, just look at the in ring product and tell me wrestling skills aside who was more charismatic than Hulk Hogan. No One!

But in saying that, I have been watching a lot of the 96-98 WCW Nitro and every promo Hollywood Hogan did wasn't even about the Feud he was in, but that no wrestler in the world would of even been known outside there local gym if it wasn't for him. That was so annoying and there is no one who can say " Oh it was just his ego gimmick " I believe it was that but also he truly believed he was the single reason for wrestlings success.

End of the day, whenever he won the belt or lost it, as either a heel or face. You payed attention.

 

[JJohns]

Its ok to say someone else could of been given a shot to do what Hogan did but I doubt it. I mean ignoring the marketing and the merchandise, just look at the in ring product and tell me wrestling skills aside who was more charismatic than Hulk Hogan. No One!

Actually, if we go back to when Hogan held his first World Title (depending on which revisionist history you listen to. You can also say that he did have 2 AWA World Titles if you listen to Gagner's revision of wrestling history, or you can say that he was the first IWGP Champion as he won the first ever IWGP Tournament, but that's neither here nor there) in the mid-80s, there was a wrestler that was more charismatic than the Hulkster.

Rowdy Roddy Piper.

Piper could talk, he could wrestle. And had Hogan been facing anyone else in 85, Wrestlemania wouldn't have done shit. It would have lost money and we'd be arguing over who should be the AWA World Champion right now. People didn't pay money for Closed Circuit, didn't pay money to go to the Garden to see Hogan win.

They paid to see Piper lose.

 

[TheThirdHebner]

The sad fact is, nobody every had the same drawing power as HOgan in that era. They tried to get others over, even my boy Randy Savage, and he WAS over...but business dropped off. Not precipitously, but significantly. To be quite frank, WWF was in the best position when Hogan was at the top. That's the way, and that's why he stayed on top. He didn't have the same kind of power that he had in WCW later on, so the belt staying on him wasn't just his doing, it was Vince's as well, because Vince knew what made money. I wish it could have been otherwise, but it couldn't. Hogan made the whole thing work (on screen that is, obviously McMahon had a huge hand it what was going on behind the scenes.)

People can pretend that anybody could have been in that position, but that's BS. They tried other people in that position, and it never worked nearly as well as it did with Hogan. Hogan was a special guy. Probably the most charismatic guy, and at the right time for his type of character. He was larger then life, and people bought into it. He made the crowds a part of his match. No matter how "fake" the Hulk Up looks, it made the crowds feel like they were involved. Like he was literally winning for them. And while I don't personally like watching him in the ring, most people loved it. I won't deny that the man told a story (and no reasonable person could), and peole loved that story he told.

I was a big Savage fan back in the day, and I really wanted him to be the top guy, but reflecting back on it, it just had to be Hogan. Nobody else could have done what he did. Many wrestlers today claim to have been marks for Flair when they were younger, but I think a lot of that is because that's the "cool" thing to say. I think it's more telling that the most famous active wrestler is a Hogan rip-off.

 

[Ducey13]

Its hard to say what was right and wrong. We will never know "What could have been" because it never was. BUT, what we do know is what DID happen. And that was Hulkamania running wild. It worked, people loved him and still do today, He was the biggest draw ever, sold tons of mechandise, and could pump up a crowd like no one else. He wasn't a technically great wrestler, but he still has TONS of memorible matches. What I'm getting at, is if you could go back in time, and you were Vince McMahon making a buisness decision, and not a personal decision, WOULD YOU REALLY CHANGE ANYTHING? IF you said "Yes" then your an idiot. Its possible someone else COULD have done the same as Hogan. Just not likely. The ONLY two guys who deserved to be WWF champion and weren't were Ted Dibiase and Rowdy Roddy Piper. No One else Deserved to be champ. Maybe Andre but he didn't need it. I'd like to give some examples of Hulk Hogan putting people over BTW: Andre the Giant, Ultimate Warrior, Undertaker (Hey look how that one turned out!) Yokozuna, The Giant, Lex Luger, Sting, GOLDBERG!, Ric Flair, The ROCK!, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, Undertaker AGAIN!, Billy Freakin Kidman for god sakes! Take Ric Flair for example, He's won and lost the title more than anyone. Best Wrestler of all time. So who's title runs worked out better? Hogan Belt Hogging or Flairs Belt dropping? They bothed worked! And if you really want to blast someone for belt hoggin then blast someone like Brunno Sammartino why don;t ya

 

[Hulkster4Life]

Just face true facts.. If it wasn't for Hulk Hogan, half you people wouldn't be watching wrestling today, if it wasn't for hulk hogan, half you people wouldn't be on this site right now, if it wasn't for hulk hogan, There wouldn't be any sell out buildings at wrestling events today, if it wasn't for him, WCW would of never lasted nearly as long as it did, if it wasn't for hogan, they would be no Edge, John Cenas, Triple H, or any huge suparstar like that because without Hulk Hogan, i would of never started watching wrestling when i was 3 yrs old, and i'm sure none of yous would either.. Hulk Hogan was the MAIN reason older folks like yous turned on that TV and put on WWF... Not because of Jake the Snake, not because of King Kong Bundy, Not cuz of Macho Man, Not cuz of Superfly, Not cuz of Piper.. BECAUSE OF HULK HOGAN!!! AND HULKAMANIA IS STILL ALIVE AND ATTRACTING FANS TODAY BECAUSE TNA RATINGS ARE HIGHEST ITS EVER BEEN! PEACE!!!

 

[Azogan v.2.0]

As for his contribution to professional wrestling? No doubt it was massive. But I don't believe that Hulk Hogan is solely responsible for the success of the WWF in the 80's, or 90's. There was a lot more involved in turning WWE into the powerhouse it is today than Hulk Hogan, such as the combining of the various territories, the launch of PPV, the writing, and the vast assortment of colorful characters. Hogan was the flagship, but not the whole navy, so to speak.

Nor do I think that you can conclude that the WWF wouldn't have been as popular in the 80's without Hogan, or that pushing other talent to title runs would have hurt the WWF in any way. How can you conclude that? Where's the evidence? There's no way to separate the contributions of Hulk Hogan from the place, the time, and the mind of Vince Mcmahon, to weigh each one appropriately. There's no way to know that a guy like Randy Savage, or Barry Wyndham, or Ricky Steamboat couldn't have been as big as Hulk Hogan if they had the same push and the same machine backing them. The highest exposure period for the WWE happened without Hulk Hogan, and at a time when title changes were FAR more prevalent. Countless performers contributed to make that happen. How do you know that the 80's wouldn't have been even BIGGER if Jake the Snake or Randy Savage or Ted Debiase had a turn carrying the gold? We can't know, because that time has come and gone. All you have is your opinion, which you admit is biased as a 'As a huge Hogan mark'.

 

[mr.davidson]

Like one other has posted

Hogan gave a big push 2 most alot of people in his day, and where most had great sucess before and after there run with hogan (undertaker, savage, yokozuna, warrior, perfect, dibiase), there were others that without there run with hogan probably wouldnt be remembered at all (King Kong Bundy, Bossman, Earthquake, Slaughter or even the Giant). So Hogan had a great deal to do with alot of peoples lives in wrestling. Which is y alot of them followed him to WCW when he jumped ship, cause they knew that he knows the bussiness inside and out.

Now to say that WWF would of been just as great with someone else in Hogans position, i would have to disagree with you in a big way. The reasoning 4 this is easy, they put the belt on others while hogan was there and it didnt work (Savage, Warrior) are to greats that come to mind. Bussiness dropped big time for the WWE when Hogan lost the belt to these people, Cause though they were HUDGE stars they just were not Hulk Hogan.

Also one other thing people should look at is when Hogan and his crew left WWE 4 WCW, during that time the WWE lost alot of momentum, cause they lost there big star and anyone worth anything followed him out.

And vince was stuck with making Champions out of Mid Card Players (Bret Hart, Shawn). Vince did pull it off, but with out Hogan it was a difficult time 4 him non the less.

Also to say Hogan is not the greatest thing in wrestling's past. Then watch the Rock vs Hogan WM18. it was the best match of that night, and he was no where near the shape he was in in the 80's, yet he made that night, he did it so well that Vince put the Tittle on him yet again.

In the end the history is there and Hogan will go down as one of if not the best wrestler of all time. and really he deserves it.

 

[KillBill]

As for his contribution to professional wrestling? No doubt it was massive. But I don't believe that Hulk Hogan is solely responsible for the success of the WWF in the 80's, or 90's. There was a lot more involved in turning WWE into the powerhouse it is today than Hulk Hogan, such as the combining of the various territories, the launch of PPV, the writing, and the vast assortment of colorful characters. Hogan was the flagship, but not the whole navy, so to speak.

Nor do I think that you can conclude that the WWF wouldn't have been as popular in the 80's without Hogan, or that pushing other talent to title runs would have hurt the WWF in any way. How can you conclude that? Where's the evidence? There's no way to separate the contributions of Hulk Hogan from the place, the time, and the mind of Vince Mcmahon, to weigh each one appropriately. There's no way to know that a guy like Randy Savage, or Barry Wyndham, or Ricky Steamboat couldn't have been as big as Hulk Hogan if they had the same push and the same machine backing them. The highest exposure period for the WWE happened without Hulk Hogan, and at a time when title changes were FAR more prevalent. Countless performers contributed to make that happen. How do you know that the 80's wouldn't have been even BIGGER if Jake the Snake or Randy Savage or Ted Debiase had a turn carrying the gold? We can't know, because that time has come and gone. All you have is your opinion, which you admit is biased as a 'As a huge Hogan mark'.

Wheres the evidence? Savage and Warrior, the 2 guys who were the most popular after Hogan. How were their reigns? Believe me, I love Savage as well, he was my second favorite behind Hulk. But his reign during late 80's, wasn't what I would call a success. What were his memorable or biggest fueds? You could say Dibiase and Andre, but I donrt recall any great matches with them.

What about Warrior? He BEAT Hogan, and what happened? His reign was far from memorable. There was just something missing, the fact that he was loony might have something to do with it.

Hogan left it 92, and what happened? They ended up bringing him back. When he left in 93, the next couple yrs were atrocious, and the worst in the companys history, and most people agree. you had the cartoon figures and gimmicks up the ass.

The problem is, is that nobody matched his charisma and personality. There was just something about him that people loved. Steamboat was great in the ring, but idk about the personality. Barry Windham? The Widowmaker? The Stalker? No. And we already mentioned Savage. You needed someone with the total package, esp the non wrestling ability part, and there was just no one to do it.

So you want evidence? Prove to me Savage and Warrior were better options. Tell me that the quality of WWF wrestling didn't go down til after Hogan left. I'm trying to keep peoples perspectives to what is was like as a kid, would you have honestly bought anyone else as the man?

 

[Dagger Dias]

There's two sides to this honestly. Hogan having a championship "feeling right" when compared to other champions, doesn't necessarily mean he was doing what was right. He was on top for too long for anyone else to be viewed as a worthy replacement. Hogan not wanting to put people over was the wrong thing to do BUT the federation not building anyone up properly to replace him was the wrong thing to do also. If he thought he was doing the right thing by not putting someone over who wasn't good enough to replace him, then you can blame Hogan's ego just as much as you can blame the federation for not building up the replacement(s)'s credibility. A guy who had been champion for over a thousand days (and that's just one of his reigns!) is going to be a tough act to follow no matter who you are. I don't think that Hogan was doing the right thing OR the wrong thing because this is a larger issue than that and there are more sides to it than just a simple "Did Hogan do the right thing?" question. Even when you throw politics and BS out the window and only go by what was happening onscreen.... you can still tell that no worthy replacement had been built up enough. So, because the blame falls on both Hogan and the WWF, you can't really say he was doing the right thing OR the wrong thing.

 

[samoan_joe]

^^ Yup, because a 1.9 UNOPPOSED hour helped fatten the average of the other two hours. And since then? The ratings have gone RIGHT BACK TO WHERE THEY WERE.

But you are correct about Hogan being the main reason for the WWE success of the 80's, but he isn't ALL the success. WWE had an amazing mid card, the best ever assembled with guys ultra over in their own rights. If it was a one trick pony with Hogan only, they wouldn't have gone as far. Guys like Roberts, Savage, Piper, Rude, Warrior and so on and so on are imperative to WWE's 80s success.

 

[Chrome]

That is Hulk Hogan, and only because Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon MADE Hulk Hogan an attraction. People love to bitch about Hogan being a belt hog, but, it worked. It fucking worked. Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon (I give equal credit to both, neither could have done it without the other) brought wrestling into the mainstream. That not only benefited the WWF, it eventually helped the NWA become WCW, and it even is helping TNA today. Without Hulk Hogan's belt hogging, if you want to call it that, you still probably have territory based wrestling, because Vince's goal of creating a global wrestling company would have most likely failed without a Hulk Hogan to be the face of the company.

You had me till you said this....I agree that Hulk Hogan was needed in the 1980's but don't get ahead of yourself.. VINCE did not Make Hogan.. if you want proof and links go here:
http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=1711743#post1711743

Basically Hogan was HUGE BEFORE WWF, Verne Gange made Hulkamania.. NOT Vince! All Vince did in the 1980's was STEAL talent from AWA... believe it or not most of the WWF wrestlers and talent came form AWA>. (Mr. Perfect, bobby the brain heenan, Rick Rude, Mean Gene, Hogan, (hell even flair (had to mention it)), Beefcake, demolition, Jesse Ventura, Scott Hall etc etc. Heck even in AWA there was Sgt Slaughter and Andre vs Hogan and in NJPW too but in WM III Vince states it was there first ever meeting lol lies!

Its public Knowledge that Hogan and Pat Patterson (Later Jerry Bisco and the Clique) had to show Vince the business and taught him what works and what doesn't. You give Vince a little to much credit.. besides without Hulkamania.. WWF would not be here today.. Vince loves to re-write history and people believe everything they read.. but here is the truth.

When did hulkamania start?

In 1981 in the AWA (proof)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQth0CDkfw0&feature=related

Now back to the topic at hand...

without Hulk Hogan there would prolly be no WWF, WWE, WCW, ECW, TNA.. if Wrestlemania 1 failed there would be no WWE now. (Remember Vince was going for broke) and Hulkamania was the attraction HOGAN is the one that made Wrestlemania popular.. And before people say .. it was Vince that made him an attraction... see below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxokO8CBonA

Yeah Vince bought the hottest talent of its time.. but it was the AWA that made Hogan.. not Vince. Hogan in the Legends of the AWA DVD even mentions this. His popularity in Rocky 3 helped it as well but it got him fired by the WWWF (Vince SR.) thus he was repackaged in AWA.

Hulkamania was born. Vince simply was a business man that had money at the right time. Hogan wanted to hold both NJ world titles and AWA.. but Vern would not allow it and wanted more cut into the merchindise of Hogan (he was HUGE!!) then Vince came in and bought him out from under Verne. That ended that..

Verne made more ICONS in this business than anyone.. and gets NO CREDIT. THAT is BS to me..he was the greatest talent scout ever.

here is a few of the names he made...

Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Curt Henning, Scott Hall, Rick Rude, Jake Roberts, Demolition, Rick Martel, Mean Gene, Bobby Heenan, Jesse Ventura, Beefcake, Nick Bockwinkle, Mad Dog Vachon, Dick the bruiser, Ray Stevens, The Nasty Boys, The Rockers (HBK and Marty Jannetty), Leon White, Larry Zbyszko, Madusa, Sherri, Eric Bischoff, Jerry lawler, Jushin thunder liger, Larry Henning, Wahoo McDaniel, Ken patera, Harley Race, Steve Regal, the Barbarian, Superfly Jimmy Snuka, Dusty Rhoades, Stan Hansen, Jimmy Garvin, Nikita Koloff, Bobby Duncum, the Destruction Crew, Jim Brunzell (killer bees), Fabulous Freebirds, Kevin Kelly, Jerry Lynn, Buddy rose, the patriot, Paul Heyman, DDP, man this is getting too much to type but you get the point.. the list goes on and on....

(note* Ric Flair quit wrestling twice,.. each time it was Verne that got him to stay into wrestling as he saw something special in him. Two of the greatest wrestlers in the 80's.. Hogan and Flair would not have made it big if it was not for Verne.)

Verne is all but forgotten in todays day and age from the new gen of wrestling fans.. I just want to make sure he gets the respect and credit that Vince seems to have failed to give to him. And make sure that people remember and know his contributions for the business.


Verne was the Hulk hogan of the 50's-70's so I see what Hogan is doing now is what Gange did back then with the AWA. Thing is Hogan made the WWF and WCW relivant.. and I think he will do the same with TNA. Hogan's mind is great for the business and the hating people are going to be eating there words in the upcoming year. Don't under estimate Hogan and Bischoff..

 

[Davi323]

Chrome, the AWA was a regional territory. Most people outside of Minnesota couldn't watch it, and had little idea who Terry Bollea was. It was Vince's dream of a truly national wrestling company that made Hulk Hogan a household name, not because of Verne Gagne. Hogan might have been well known in the AWA territory, but, would anyone in Arizona have known who he was? Mississippi? New Jersey? The AWA wasn't broadcast nationally, the WWE was, because of the deal with USA networks, early on. It was Vince that helped make Hulk Hogan a real household name.

It wasn't Vince's wrestling knowledge that Hogan needed. It was his BUSINESS acumen. Vince needed his Muhammed Ali, and he got it with Hulk Hogan. Hogan needed someone to make him famous globally, and Vince McMahon did that for him. It was a symbiotic relationship. The WWF doesn't become the global leader in sports entertainment without Hogan, and without the WWF, Hulk Hogan doesn't become the second most recognizable wrestler of all time, after Andre.

 

[TheThirdHebner]

Chrome, the AWA was a regional territory. Most people outside of Minnesota couldn't watch it, and had little idea who Terry Bollea was. It was Vince's dream of a truly national wrestling company that made Hulk Hogan a household name, not because of Verne Gagne. Hogan might have been well known in the AWA territory, but, would anyone in Arizona have known who he was? Mississippi? New Jersey? The AWA wasn't broadcast nationally, the WWE was, because of the deal with USA networks, early on. It was Vince that helped make Hulk Hogan a real household name.

It wasn't Vince's wrestling knowledge that Hogan needed. It was his BUSINESS acumen. Vince needed his Muhammed Ali, and he got it with Hulk Hogan. Hogan needed someone to make him famous globally, and Vince McMahon did that for him. It was a symbiotic relationship. The WWF doesn't become the global leader in sports entertainment without Hogan, and without the WWF, Hulk Hogan doesn't become the second most recognizable wrestler of all time, after Andre.

How would anyone have known him? Perhaps a little indy flick you may have heard of called "Rocky 3"?

Either way, as I said, Hogan was the right guy at the right time. He was already a big star in wrestling circles, but being in the WWF certainly took him to another level. But it really, Hogan was the only guy who could have did what he did, at least to anywhere near that level. He's the most naturally charismatic guy in history. I wish Macho Man could have done the same, but the proof is in the pudding, business dropped off noticeably when Macho was champ.

 

[Chrome]

Chrome, the AWA was a regional territory. Most people outside of Minnesota couldn't watch it, and had little idea who Terry Bollea was. It was Vince's dream of a truly national wrestling company that made Hulk Hogan a household name, not because of Verne Gagne. Hogan might have been well known in the AWA territory, but, would anyone in Arizona have known who he was? Mississippi? New Jersey? The AWA wasn't broadcast nationally, the WWE was, because of the deal with USA networks, early on. It was Vince that helped make Hulk Hogan a real household name.

It wasn't Vince's wrestling knowledge that Hogan needed. It was his BUSINESS acumen. Vince needed his Muhammed Ali, and he got it with Hulk Hogan. Hogan needed someone to make him famous globally, and Vince McMahon did that for him. It was a symbiotic relationship. The WWF doesn't become the global leader in sports entertainment without Hogan, and without the WWF, Hulk Hogan doesn't become the second most recognizable wrestler of all time, after Andre.

Again Vince did not make Hogan.. you stated that they both made it.. when in fact Vince did nothing but buy out people. from AWA>

Also AWA was on TV .. I lived in Florida and VA in the 80's and 70's and could catch AWA on TV there.. just like I could watch NWA. (ALL wrestling was territorial back then and Hogan was a top draw much like ric flair..) You mean to tell me that Bruno Sammartino, Andre, and other wrestlers were not Big time because of TV??? l Hello no one was more popular than Hogan during Rocky 3.. (which came before AWA) that got him into main stream.

Your giving little credit to the man that made hulkamania.. and its not Vince. I hate the fact that he re-writes history so much and how many people who knowingly follow his every word as gossiple even though they know he is a liar.

Wrestlemania was a rip of Star Cade.. it succeeded because of Hogan.. without Hogan it would just be another PPV. Hogan was the attraction because Vince "smartly" listen to everything Hogan and Pat patterson had to say and followed it.

No one was bigger than Hogan at the time.. but that was mainly because of hogan and Gange. Look at the video .. Hogan was HUGE before WWF.

He entered the WWF in December 27, 1983.. (so lets round up and say 1984) ...

Wrestlemania started in 1985...

well damn what is taking him so long in turning out talent like that now or since??? I mean Hogan was World Champ within 3 weeks of joining WWF.. That was due to the fact that he was a markee name at the time.

so you actually believe Vince made Hogan a SUPERSTAR in ONE year???

Answer: HE DIDN'T the reason Wrestlemania took off just ONE year after Hogans arrival was because how HUGE and OVER Hogan was at the time.. and that had NOTHING to do with Vince. He bought the best attraction of its day during that time.

Equal credit isn't so equal.. it was Hogan that made the WWF relevant. Without Hogan as champ ratings dropped and merchindise dropped.

How would anyone have known him? Perhaps a little indy flick you may have heard of called "Rocky 3"?

Either way, as I said, Hogan was the right guy at the right time. He was already a big star in wrestling circles, but being in the WWF certainly took him to another level. But it really, Hogan was the only guy who could have did what he did, at least to anywhere near that level. He's the most naturally charismatic guy in history. I wish Macho Man could have done the same, but the proof is in the pudding, business dropped off noticeably when Macho was champ.

I can agree with all that.

 

[Davi323]

Vince made Hogan as big as he was. Without Vince McMahon, is Hulk Hogan one of the most recognizable faces on the planet? Hell no. Without Vince, Hogan was just a pro wrestler. Even with the recognition from Rocky III, Hogan isn't the legend, isn't the icon. He is just another wrestler who appeared in a movie. What Vince gave Hogan, that he couldn't have gotten from anyone else, is transcendence. What I mean by that, is that Vince turned Hulk Hogan into something more than a pro wrestler. He turned him into a celebrity, he gave him the chance to go beyond being just a wrestler. Vince turned Hogan into the face of the entire pro wrestling industry for the entire country. That is why I refuse to claim Hogan did it all himself, because he didn't. Without Vince, Hogan is just another wrestler. With Vince, Hogan is THE wrestler. I am not diminishing Hogan's role, look at my avatar...I grew up a huge Hulkamaniac.

But, some guys who are really good, turn legendary when paired with a specific partner. Joe Montana would have been a very good NFL quarterback, regardless. But, give him Jerry Rice to throw to, and forget about it, you have arguably the greatest QB ever. The reverse is also true, Rice would have been good, but give him Montana, and he is the best WR ever. That's all I am saying. Vince McMahon + Hulk Hogan is much greater than Vince McMahon and Hulk Hogan would have been individually. The sum is greater than the parts. Vince couldn't have turned anyone else into the face of wrestling other than Hogan, but Hogan couldn't have been the face of wrestling without Vince McMahon. So, I give them equal credit.

 

[Wrath]

Actually you're missing something. No one denies Hogan's mega huge popularity he is one of the biggest icons in wrestling. He's a true legend without him there would maybe never be WWE. People have never denied that. Hogan may be %100 right but it doesn't give him a right to act like a ********. It's not wrestlers job to choose what's good for business. If your promoter wants you to put someone over you have to do that. It's your fucking job. I'm not a Hogan hater he's my one of the favorite wrestlers but it doesn't justify what he did.

And the whole argument about Ultimate Warrior is bullshit he was one of the most over wrestlers on the roster. Don't you remember the crowd reaction in their WM VI match. If he hadn't been a moron he would have been considered as one of the biggest legends ever. Hogan may have been the biggest star in this business but it doesn't mean that other than him everyone else's title reigns were shit. I still can't think how much heat could Ted Dibiase get if he really held WWF title.

Lets assume that Hogan did what was right in WWF because he knew no one could've been a better champion than him. Ok lets assume that it's true. But when the time come for him to put other people over. He still acted like an asshole. He's the only reason Starrcade 97 sucked so bad. I don't even want to talk about Great American Bash 2000. One of the biggest reasons of WCW's downfall was people like Hogan did not want leave their spots when the time came through. So it proves that even it was wrong for business he still wanted to be on top. This man had a huge ego and that was the only reason he did not want to put other people over.

It doesn't change the fact that he's probably the biggest star in pro wrestling history. I don't deny it but when someone says Hogan put people over and blah blah blah it just annoys me. He did not do it even when the time came. I love Hogan but what Hogan did was wrong.

 

[Tastycles]

If Hulk Hogan had retired in 1992, I don't think anyone would have ever played the politics card at all. Until that point, he had done the job when asked, and he had saved the company when the reigns of Warrior and to a lesser extent Savage had failed. You could even argue that he was doing the same thing when he came back at WrestleMania VIII, and apparently he was about to do the job to Hart, handing the keys to the company over for the third time, but he didn't. Why? I couldn't tell you, but that is when people start to look at Hogan in a negative light.

He went to WCW though, and though he had a mammoth reign, he turned heel and even jobeed out to Goldberg. However, it was then when he started playing the backstage hands, and while it wouldn't be aproblem if it was just him, he was aging and other stars thought they had the right too and the whole creative control meltdown occured. I don't think anybody would call Hulk Hogan a company man, but for the vast majority of his career he did what was asked of him by the powers that be, albeit while getting himself over in the first place. I was cold to him going to TNA, but I have started to think that his intentions are purer than I initially gave him credit for. Hogan is a shameless publicity ****e, but there is no denying that he is the best thing that probably ever will happen to this business.

 

[Travaje]

I respectfully disagree. I have never liked Hulk Hogan. Ever. I was never a Hulkamaniac. I cheered for every last person he wrestled against back in the Hulkamania days. Even as a 8-9 year old, I really resented the fact that he never lost, that guys who I loved like Ted DiBiase never got to hold the belt. He also not only never lost the belt, but won the 2 Royal Rumbles, every Survivor Series match he was in, everything. I also was able to notice even at a young age that Hulk had a total of 5 moves and that everyone he was beating was clearly way better than him, and I resented that as well. If a 9 year old can put all those pieces together and figure out that Hulk Hogan never lost because he draws the most money, that's not good. If Hulk had it his way, he would have had exactly 1 WWF World Title reign.

Meanwhile, you've got a guy over on NWA television by the name of Ric Flair, who was 100x the wrestler, 100x the promo guy, 100x the entertainer, who was able to actually work alongside guys (the Horsemen) and share the spotlight and not have it be all about him, and who actually made wrestling believable by losing every so often to guys like Steamboat and Sting who deserved the hold those titles. Did it hurt his legacy that he lost from time to time? I don't think so. So that argument is bullshit.

Look, not everybody cheers for the Yankees. And I know I'm not alone. Know why Hogan had so much heat when he turned heel in the NWO and had that belt? It wasn't because he betrayed his fans, because obviously they still love him and would no matter what. It was because finally people like me had the opportunity to tell him exactly what we've thought for years: that he isn't as good as he or everyone else thinks he is, that we resented him for how he did business, and that he could fuck off.

 

[WWEWrestleFest]

you can criticize him for not putting people over.. but you can say the same thing about almost anyone. shawn michaels wouldn't put over bret hart or shane dougles, steve austin wouldn't put over scott hall or even work with jeff jerrett, etc. plus, if hogan was losing all the time, warrior beating him wouldn't have been so special. and as "hollywood," he did put over people all the time. sting, luger, goldberg, ddp.. and the only times he won, it was cause he cheated.

as for helping out his friends.. i think he should be praised for that, not criticized. if i were in a position of power and could help out my friends, i would help them out. friends and family come before business.. everytime.

 

[ice82683]

the age old question


did the people pay to see hulk hogan...

or

did the people pay to see whomever was facing hogan get his ass kicked?

i think it was more of the latter, hogan just so happened to be built up as THE babyface at the time. The genius of it all was the build of the heels he was facing. If heels could be built up like that today, the business would still be booming.