Screw HBK!!!

[TLC]

I found the Hogan and HBK to pretty entertaining. HBK's over the top selling made the match a lot less boring than it could have been. Hogan was in shit shape and the fans could see that so why try and make it more serious that it was. As D-Man has pointed out, the entire build up to the match was a joke so why not let the match be that.

Was it unprofessional? Well yes it is. I don't really care to be fair. All I want to do is watch a match and be entertained by it, i'm not particualy bothered what any of them do outside of the match so why do I care what he did. Its not as if Hogan is innocent in all this. I don't blame HBK for doing it if Hogan let them know days before that he could only work one match and would only do it if he won. Sure none of them needed the win but I would of preferred if the guy who wrestles weekly and is in great condition go over the old man who can barely work. If Hogan was such an egotistical jack off, none of that would of happened.

 

[Via Armbar]

This is what makes me laugh. I totally see your point, but let me ask you a question...

By saying that it was funny, were you entertained?

I'm guessing your answer is "yes", along with mine.

This match was not meant to be serious... not by ANY means. Even the average non-smark fan realized that Hogan's win was a total joke and a spit in the fact of the business. It was another example of him strong-arming the WWE with negotiations by saying, "Sure, I'll work a match at SS and draw lots of viewers... that is, if you pay me a huge sum of money and let me win, even though there's no reason behind why I should win this match."

It's a double-edged sword. You say HBK is unprofessional for making a mockery of the match and Hogan is unprofessional by forcing this type of booking. But Hogan's still morally correct for performing at his highest level in front of the audience while HBK is more unprofessional because he made it funny and entertaining to watch? It makes no sense.

As far as I'm concerned, HBK's "mockery" of the match is exactly what the match needed. Let's face it, at the time, Hogan was a limping, over-the-hill legend with a bad limp, one hip, and could barely give a leg drop to an opponent. HBK was still in exceptional shape. You want the audience to actually attempt to suspend their disbelief into thinking that Hogan could actually defeat HBK in a match?? Yeah, ok... whatever.

HBK's joking antics SAVED that match from disaster. After all, do you even remember the interviews that HBK had in the weeks prior to the match? Do you remember him wearing a wig, fake mustache, and giving one of the funniest interviews of his career? The entire ANGLE was a joke. So HBK made the match go that way, as well. And after it was all over, Hogan wasn't bitter. So who are we to judge?

Of course it's a double edged sword, and as I mentioned both men were at fault. Hogan was at fault for taking creative hostage and forcing the outcome of the match. But Michaels was just as at fault for how he reacted to the situation. I said neither men should be held more accountable then the other, they both acted like children. But this is a Shawn Michaels thread, not a Hulk Hogan thread, so I felt it fitting to talk about how Shawn handled the situation.

I disagree with the you when you said that the match wasn't meant to be serious. So Shawn giving Hogan a superkick and the subsequent staredown weren't serious? It sure seemed serious to me. All of the comedy bits that followed weren't meant to turn the match into a comedic sideshow. Shawn plays a different kind of heel then Triple H does or Orton does. He's not cerebrial or malicious. He mocks his opponent, he demeans them while putting himself on a pedastool. That's what he did with his promos leading up to their match. Never did they act like this match wasn't mean to be serious or that it was all for laughs. Okay so nobody thought the match would be any good seeing that Hogan could barely work by that time, doesn't mean that the match wasn't supposed to be a once in a lifetime chance to see two of the best of all time go at it.

They were catering to the general audience, not the ''smarks'', nor have they ever catered to them. To say that majority of the audience knew it was going to be shit or that they were going into it expecting comedy just isn't accurate.

Was it unprofessional? Well yes it is. I don't really care to be fair. All I want to do is watch a match and be entertained by it, i'm not particualy bothered what any of them do outside of the match so why do I care what he did. Its not as if Hogan is innocent in all this. I don't blame HBK for doing it if Hogan let them know days before that he could only work one match and would only do it if he won. Sure none of them needed the win but I would of preferred if the guy who wrestles weekly and is in great condition go over the old man who can barely work. If Hogan was such an egotistical jack off, none of that would of happened.

What Shawn did never bothered me. Still doesn't. Like I said i'm not judging gentleman of the year, i'm watching a wrestling match. Any arguments I have made were to simply illustrate that both of these men were at fault. You said that if Hogan wasn't a prick then it wouldn't have happened. I absolutly agree. But Shawn isn't an infant. He is a grown man with willpower and the right to make decisions based on circumstance, and while he did use that right the decision he ultimately made was to be as unprofessional as Hogan. Even worse in my opinion is the fact that Shawn allowed their backstage squabble to be laid out in front of the paying fans. The same fans who paid good money to see the two men wrestle. Instead they got a sideshow. And you cannot say that being sideshow was the WWE's intention of the match. Do you really think they paid Hogan to come back for a comedy match?

At the end of the day, what this match would be remembered for was up to Michaels. The man can have a good match with anyone, and I strongly beleive that holds true for a match with Hogan as well. He didn't choose to do that.

 

[D-Man]

I disagree with the you when you said that the match wasn't meant to be serious. So Shawn giving Hogan a superkick and the subsequent staredown weren't serious? It sure seemed serious to me.

It's a pro-wrestling angle... there has to be at least SOME drama...

All of the comedy bits that followed weren't meant to turn the match into a comedic sideshow.

Actually, I feel they were playing it by ear. Once they realized that the match should've been one-sided towards HBK and the audience wasn't taking it as seriously as they should have, they decided to put a comedic spin on it.

Shawn plays a different kind of heel then Triple H does or Orton does. He's not cerebrial or malicious. He mocks his opponent, he demeans them while putting himself on a pedastool. That's what he did with his promos leading up to their match.

Shawn did that back during DX in the 90's, but not during this time period. Around this time, he just finished feuding in completely NON-comical feuds with Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, and Muhammed Hassan. This mockery of Hulk Hogan was something to entertain all of the fans, since the realism was too far-fetched.

Never did they act like this match wasn't mean to be serious or that it was all for laughs. Okay so nobody thought the match would be any good seeing that Hogan could barely work by that time, doesn't mean that the match wasn't supposed to be a once in a lifetime chance to see two of the best of all time go at it.

You basically contradicted yourself here and pretty much proved my point. They TRIED to make it serious, but everyone saw right through it. So the tempo changed halfway through, starting with the infamous interview where HBK dressed up as Hogan.

They were catering to the general audience, not the ''smarks'', nor have they ever catered to them. To say that majority of the audience knew it was going to be shit or that they were going into it expecting comedy just isn't accurate.

Like I said, it wasn't just the smarks that thought this match was a joke. EVERYONE was disappointed at the fact that people didn't take it more seriously and as a result, the buyrates for that Summerslam were disappointing. However, it remains the most memorable match on the card because of the sheer entertainment value of the match. Seriously, does anyone else even remember Batista vs. JBL for the WHC, Cena vs. Jericho for the WWE title, or any other match on that card?? Hell no. And this was Summerslam, of all PPV's. Supposedly the #2 card of the year. And yet it was disappointing because its success was contigent upon the success of a far-fetched matchup between an old lion and a new one.

 

[Miko]

However, it remains the most memorable match on the card because of the sheer entertainment value of the match. Seriously, does anyone else even remember Batista vs. JBL for the WHC, Cena vs. Jericho for the WWE title, or any other match on that card?? Hell no.

I do, some good matches right there.

The OP brings up many good points, but as has been said in this thread, they were all over a decade ago now, everyone knows what happened, and people for the most part have got over it. HBK may well have been a prick, he could well still be a prick, doesnt matter to me. Hulk Hogan could well have been a prick, although if Hogan of the 80's, or NWO Hogan refused to lose to somebody he had a valid point, what with being the company's megadraw and all. HBK dont really have that excuse.

Same with Summerslam, Hogan maybe held the match hostage, and that was dickish, then again, why should he come out of retirement to lose to someone like HBK? The greatest American wrestler of all time losing to a man that isnt going to benefit at all from it, all it's going to do is make HBK's legacy that little bit better. Shawn being a little bitch in the match was amusing to be fair, but it was still a bitch move from someone who doesnt really deserve to beat Hulk Hogan, no matter how nackered the old fucker might be. Then again, it was pretty damn funny.

 

[Via Armbar]

I hear what you are saying D-Man about them playing it by ear. I really still don't think that even at the point they knew they were fucked would they turn this into a comedy match. I can hardly picture Vince saying "Ok this isn't going the way we thought it was, how about we just turn this into a big joke". When has Vince ever let something change when it didn't go his way. The man is uber controlling and that's not secret. I hardly think he admitted that this match was going to be failure and decided to write the rest of it as comedy. Shawn was trying to downplay Hogan. He said that he didn't buy into the hype, so mocking Hogan seems to be a perfectly reasonable way to build a match.

Shawn did that back during DX in the 90's, but not during this time period. Around this time, he just finished feuding in completely NON-comical feuds with Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, and Muhammed Hassan. This mockery of Hulk Hogan was something to entertain all of the fans, since the realism was too far-fetched.

Of course Shawn has had serious moments and cut serious promos. He knew Beniot and Angle were all they were hyped up to be, why would he mock them. He didn't buy into Hulkamania. That doesn't meant the match was supposed to be a joke. He wanted to destroy the image of Hulkamania, to tear down the facade he had built twenty some odd years ago. Just because he had a comical approach doesn't make the match a comedy bit. The Rock was constantly mocking his opponents and bringing them down verbally, does that make all of his matches jokes?

You basically contradicted yourself here and pretty much proved my point. They TRIED to make it serious, but everyone saw right through it. So the tempo changed halfway through, starting with the infamous interview where HBK dressed up as Hogan.

At what point did EVERYONE see through it? Like I said, the way the fued started was not comedy. Shawn went into his phase of mocking Hogan almost immediatly after he cut his promo about how he doesn't buy into Hulk's hype. So maybe I missed something that happened in between the superkick and the promo where he dressed as Hogan that let creative know NOBODY was buying it. This could have been the part where Hogan started taking advantage of creative, but are they really going to lay their backstage problems out on live television? Maybe in the case of Matt Hardy and Edge, but there's no way they are going to lose payperview buys by selling this match as comedy. Are you saying they didn't have promos like the one Michaels did already planned or at least the ideas for them? Hogans old, it's an easy target. It's not really creative writing, but it's the WWE's writing. Would they really have had Shawn NOT mention Hogan's age or past?

Like I said, it wasn't just the smarks that thought this match was a joke. EVERYONE was disappointed at the fact that people didn't take it more seriously and as a result, the buyrates for that Summerslam were disappointing. However, it remains the most memorable match on the card because of the sheer entertainment value of the match. Seriously, does anyone else even remember Batista vs. JBL for the WHC, Cena vs. Jericho for the WWE title, or any other match on that card?? Hell no. And this was Summerslam, of all PPV's. Supposedly the #2 card of the year. And yet it was disappointing because its success was contigent upon the success of a far-fetched matchup between an old lion and a new one.

Last time I checked no one person could speak for EVERYONE. So which came first, people not taking it seriously or creative knowing they were fucked with the direction of the program and changed their gameplan? Because one of those things will directly affect the other. I seriously doubt that creative had the insight to know that apparently no one bought. If they were that in touch with what that many fans wanted i'm sure ratings would be higher than they are right now. Which ties into the fact that you can't please EVERYONE, which is why i don't think that EVERYONE saw past the seriousness of the match. If you can show me some numericals regarding buy rates for this Summerslam, I will understand better how the show was less succesful because people didn't buy into this match.

Not once in this thread did I argue the entertainment value of this match. I was entertained, as were many of the fans im sure. The facts that I have been arguing have been regarding Michaels unprofessionalism and that I don't think creative intended for the match itself to be comedic at any point in the writing process.

 

[kc2788x]

well well, it seems everyone's so touchy about this subject, the ones who's a Hogan fan, and the one's who's a Shawn fan, need I say, I am a fan of neither really! I am a fan of Cena (all those Cena hypocrite haters, you just wait, wait till, or if he ever turns heel, all of you will be riding his bandwagon pretty much like you all did with the rock,) (I am surprise no idiot fan are telling John Cena to die like they did the rock, again I for one like the rock when he was just Rocky) (sorry lost track there for a bit) I am also a Taker, Bret, Kane (so underrated) Matt Hardy (Underrated as well) Edge, Jericho, Orton, and Rhodes (I like em better than Dibiase) Anyways back to the parasite Shawn, I am not judging Shawn for his actions then, It's his action now, because his action then is still now, he's all for himself, lets look at it this way, Shawn is the type of guy who plays politic all the way up to the point until he knows it's not gonna do him any good, than he has no choice but to just play it out!
Fact 1; the new age outlaws, remember how they got way over it with the fans, they were popular and there was at first rumor of them joining DX, but knowing Shawn and HHH's ego, they said the new age outlaws didn't didn't have class, they're not good enough, but by being so over with the fans, they were the one's asking the new age outlaws to be part of the group!
Fact 2; In TNA, the road dog and bad ass billy gunn, literally blast them about their politics, I mean LITERALLY, they even challenged them with their own money, they told it like it is they told us about HHH banging Steph, Shawn on HHH's shaft as well!
Fact 3; Now if you're being blasted live (not scripted) and it wasn't the truth, shouldn't you at least defend yourself? (I would) (All you Shawn fans stop being denial, you would too)
Fact 4; Triple H is your best bud, but you want a person you hated and disliked to induct you into the wwe hall of fame? Now lets use a example here, If I was to steal a girl from a hated enemy, do you think I would want him TO BE MY BEST MAN AT MY WEDDING, hell no, I would want my BEST FRIEND to be!
Fact 5; Again not a big fan of Hogan, but yeah look at Shawn and how he tried to sell Hogan's move at the pay per view event, I, along with the rest of Shawn haters thought it was funny and bad for the wwe industry!
Fact 6; Bret put over Steve Austin, again Bret isn't afraid to put over new generation, Shawn (parasite) he didn't want to put over Austin, crying, bitchin, complaining, and it wasn't until the Undertaker (unscripted of course) drag that little backstabbing leech idiot to the back and says he had no choice but to do it because it was for the better of the company (and if he didn't he was gonna get knocked out by the Undertaker himself)
Fact 7; as to all those says that he put over quite a bit of new generations of superstars, you again would not admit to the truth that he plays politics until the very end and has no choice but to either win his match or lose, the only one to over power hhh's power would be Vince himself (which I am glad that he is starting to do)
I have to say yeah, he does perform great, he is a great performer, no doubt about it, Why does he want a (so called) rematch with the Undertaker, whose to know this time around he won't screw the Undertaker, we've seen the first match, it was epic, the second time around, it won't! Let's not forget, Shawn has screwed people over, what if he does it again, does it take for Shawn to actually "do the screw" before you Shawn fans admit it? (yeah right, even if he does screw the undertaker over you'll be in denial as you are all now)
If I am not right about Shawn as a performer and as a person than, why would the road dog and Bad ass Billy gun said all those things about DX? Those were personal TRUTHFUL UNSCRIPTED SHOTS at them, not lies!!

 

[SSJPhenom]

The amount of bullshit that I've read in this thread brings a smile to my face. It let's me know, further more, that the IWC will bitch about any and everything.

I'm going to start off by saying, what's not to love about HBK? Answer me that. Like him or hate him, he is the greatest in ring performer of all time. He had the best matches for the WWE in the 90's. He took four years off to heal. Came back in 2002 and has had some of the most storied matches of the last decade. Who in wrestling, now or in the past can hold a candle to HBK in the ring? You don't have to like Shawn Michaels the person, but if you're a wrestling fan, you have to fucking RESPECT Shawn Michaels the performer. Call him overrated all you want. There is no one wrestling today that can put on the kind of show that Shawn Michaels can.

Let's get on to this Hogan match. I'm going to start off by saying, fuck Hulk Hogan. You want to talk about how immature HBK was for that match. Let's talk about how power crazy Hulk Hogan was for that match. Hogan came back in 2005 to have a match with HBK. Why was it more important for Hogan to get the win? He wasn't an active part of the WWE anymore. So it shouldn't have mattered if Hogan won or not. At least, if HBK had have won, he was still an active member of the roster and it could have went a long way in helping HBK make future stars for the business. Hogan did the same thing to Orton at SS. IMO, it was far more important for Orton to get the win then it was for Hogan. It would have went a long way in building Orton back up to the top. If you want to call Shawn a baby for what he did, you can't praise Hogan for what he did. Sources tell me that the match was supposed to go the other way. That is, until Hogan used his power to change it.

You can hate Michaels all you want, but you have to RESPECT him as a performer.

 

[kc2788x]

The amount of bullshit that I've read in this thread brings a smile to my face. It let's me know, further more, that the IWC will bitch about any and everything.

I'm going to start off by saying, what's not to love about HBK? Answer me that. Like him or hate him, he is the greatest in ring performer of all time. He had the best matches for the WWE in the 90's. He took four years off to heal. Came back in 2002 and has had some of the most storied matches of the last decade. Who in wrestling, now or in the past can hold a candle to HBK in the ring? You don't have to like Shawn Michaels the person, but if you're a wrestling fan, you have to fucking RESPECT Shawn Michaels the performer. Call him overrated all you want. There is no one wrestling today that can put on the kind of show that Shawn Michaels can.

Let's get on to this Hogan match. I'm going to start off by saying, fuck Hulk Hogan. You want to talk about how immature HBK was for that match. Let's talk about how power crazy Hulk Hogan was for that match. Hogan came back in 2005 to have a match with HBK. Why was it more important for Hogan to get the win? He wasn't an active part of the WWE anymore. So it shouldn't have mattered if Hogan won or not. At least, if HBK had have won, he was still an active member of the roster and it could have went a long way in helping HBK make future stars for the business. Hogan did the same thing to Orton at SS. IMO, it was far more important for Orton to get the win then it was for Hogan. It would have went a long way in building Orton back up to the top. If you want to call Shawn a baby for what he did, you can't praise Hogan for what he did. Sources tell me that the match was supposed to go the other way. That is, until Hogan used his power to change it.

You can hate Michaels all you want, but you have to RESPECT him as a performer.

So basically you're saying, you only see the positive side of Shawn, and that he's a great guy at heart? You don't know and neither do I, Doesn't Shawn do exactly like what Hogan does, doesn't he take time off and come back, so lets see, he's gonna take time off, maybe a year, why should he come back and instantly be put in the lime light? I am not a big fan of Shawn or Hogan as I've said before! I am not in denial about Shawn not playing Politics, it seems you are! You didn't answer any of my facts! You're one of those John Cena haters getting ready to jump on the bandwagon when he turns heel huh? And basically you must be one of those guys who cheers for 3 move SHAME-US one which he copies ala the razors edge! None of us have to respect him, he just pays his dues like everyone else, except that everyone knows when their time is done, unlike, Hogan, Shawn, hhh, Flair!

 

[pyrusane]

Has anyone stopped to think that HBK's actions at SS, as silly and inappropriate as they seem on the surface, might have also been the epitome of professionalism?

No, I haven't lost my mind. Let me explain. At the time of the match, Hogan let it be known that he was in pretty much the worst shape of his entire career. His knees were gone, his hip was bad, he could barely move. Putting on a great match was going to be very difficult, if not impossible, for Hogan.

Shawn had a couple of choices here. He could go out there, put on a great match from his end, and make Hogan look like absolute shit. It wouldn't have taken much, if Shawn just puts on his standard PPV effort he would have been miles ahead of Hogan in the ring. This isn't a rip on Hogan, its just a commentary on where his physical health was at the time.

On the other hand, Shawn could go out and hold back, lower his game to make Hogan look better. And we would have quite probably had a terrible, boring, slow-paced clusterfuck of a match that had absolutely zero believability yet tried to take itself very seriously.

Instead, HBK took the third option. By overselling so obviously, by "making a mockery" of the match, he took all of the heat for this match. He delivered a match that, while not exactly a classic, was very entertaining. And the only person who came out of it looking bad was Shawn.

Do you really think a man who has been in the business as long as he has, who has been involved in as much controversy as Shawn, was unaware of the criticism he would draw for performing the way he did? Anyone who thinks he believed that no one would point a finger at him is an idiot.

So, what were the three choices: Put on a wrestling clinic and make the fading legend look like what he is, a beaten down shell of his former self; take your performance down a notch and end up with a terrible match that would be forgotten in days or worse, remembered as a total crapfest; or put on an entertaining match that managed to gain Hogan sympathy and get the finger of blame pointed at HBK.

Honestly, at the end of the day, those that keep saying Shawn acted poorly and selfishly in this match should really just be saying two words; "Thank you."

 

[pyrusane]

well well, it seems everyone's so touchy about this subject, the ones who's a Hogan fan, and the one's who's a Shawn fan, need I say, I am a fan of neither really! I am a fan of Cena (all those Cena hypocrite haters, you just wait, wait till, or if he ever turns heel, all of you will be riding his bandwagon pretty much like you all did with the rock,) (I am surprise no idiot fan are telling John Cena to die like they did the rock, again I for one like the rock when he was just Rocky) (sorry lost track there for a bit) I am also a Taker, Bret, Kane (so underrated) Matt Hardy (Underrated as well) Edge, Jericho, Orton, and Rhodes (I like em better than Dibiase)

Wow...I fell asleep reading the first part of this. All of those parenthesis mesmerized me I think.

Anyways back to the parasite Shawn, I am not judging Shawn for his actions then, It's his action now, because his action then is still now, he's all for himself, lets look at it this way, Shawn is the type of guy who plays politic all the way up to the point until he knows it's not gonna do him any good, than he has no choice but to just play it out!

Ah, ok, lets see which of his actions now it is that bother you.

Fact 1; the new age outlaws, remember how they got way over it with the fans, they were popular and there was at first rumor of them joining DX, but knowing Shawn and HHH's ego, they said the new age outlaws didn't didn't have class, they're not good enough, but by being so over with the fans, they were the one's asking the new age outlaws to be part of the group!

Wow, I must have really missed a lot of RAW lately. I could have sworn that this all happened around 1998 or so. Since, you know, we're focusing on his actions now.

Fact 2; In TNA, the road dog and bad ass billy gunn, literally blast them about their politics, I mean LITERALLY, they even challenged them with their own money, they told it like it is they told us about HHH banging Steph, Shawn on HHH's shaft as well!

Wow, those are two guys that have so much credibility. They have made careers by riding the coattails of others. Its called getting a cheap pop, Bubba. If you're in a less-successful company, and you want to get a nice face pop, you call out two of the biggest stars of the number one company. They tried this with Vince, too. By the way, when was the last time you saw either one of those guys work a match?

Fact 3; Now if you're being blasted live (not scripted) and it wasn't the truth, shouldn't you at least defend yourself? (I would) (All you Shawn fans stop being denial, you would too)

Oh, that's so cute. You really believe everything you see on the old rasslin' show is real. You believe that because they broke down the fourth wall then automatically everything they said was a shoot, and not just a desperate attempt at relevance.

Fact 4; Triple H is your best bud, but you want a person you hated and disliked to induct you into the wwe hall of fame? Now lets use a example here, If I was to steal a girl from a hated enemy, do you think I would want him TO BE MY BEST MAN AT MY WEDDING, hell no, I would want my BEST FRIEND to be!

I can't reply to this. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I don't even understand what your argument is here.

Fact 5; Again not a big fan of Hogan, but yeah look at Shawn and how he tried to sell Hogan's move at the pay per view event, I, along with the rest of Shawn haters thought it was funny and bad for the wwe industry!

Yeah, it would have been so much better for Shawn to go out there and put on a wrestling clinic, exposing Hogan as a broken down, washed up old man. Then we would have had a match that was both not entertaining, AND "Bad for the industry." I see your point.

Fact 6; Bret put over Steve Austin, again Bret isn't afraid to put over new generation, Shawn (parasite) he didn't want to put over Austin, crying, bitchin, complaining, and it wasn't until the Undertaker (unscripted of course) drag that little backstabbing leech idiot to the back and says he had no choice but to do it because it was for the better of the company (and if he didn't he was gonna get knocked out by the Undertaker himself)

Still waiting for the part where you start talking about the last decade instead of the late 90s. Shawn was a prick in the 90s. No one, including Shawn himself, has ever denied this.

Fact 7; as to all those says that he put over quite a bit of new generations of superstars, you again would not admit to the truth that he plays politics until the very end and has no choice but to either win his match or lose, the only one to over power hhh's power would be Vince himself (which I am glad that he is starting to do)

And what exactly do you base this on? Oh right, you hate Shawn, so therefore you don't need those pesky little things called facts. I find it hilarious that a man who has spent the better part of the last decade jobbing to rising stars is being accused of "playing politics" and not putting over the new generation.

I have to say yeah, he does perform great, he is a great performer, no doubt about it, Why does he want a (so called) rematch with the Undertaker, whose to know this time around he won't screw the Undertaker, we've seen the first match, it was epic, the second time around, it won't! Let's not forget, Shawn has screwed people over, what if he does it again, does it take for Shawn to actually "do the screw" before you Shawn fans admit it? (yeah right, even if he does screw the undertaker over you'll be in denial as you are all now)

So sorry, didn't realize you had the ability to see the future. My bad...

If I am not right about Shawn as a performer and as a person than, why would the road dog and Bad ass Billy gun said all those things about DX? Those were personal TRUTHFUL UNSCRIPTED SHOTS at them, not lies!!

If it happens in a promo, it's scripted. If you don't believe that, you are deluding yourself.

Seriously man, if you want to be taken seriously at all around here, try a little harder next time. Learn to craft a proper post. And try forming coherent, well-thought arguments, that actually make some sense and are somewhat readable. This mess was almost painful to dissect.

 

[kc2788x]

to mastadon Tentazord as you can see I haven't posted down that much post, as you can see, if you click on my link Einstein, I don't remember saying the spinning belt was awesome! As for you Pyrusane, maybe it doesn't get through that thick head of yours, I said, "the second time around, what's to stop Shawn from literally actually screw someone over, and that he's done it before, he'll probably do it again, try to read more along the lines! If there's anyone knowing about riding coattails, it's Shawn! Why are you in so much denial? Shawn is the same person he was then, he is now! Is it so much pain for you to gulp down the truth? Even you're denying yourself that VKM promos were a shoot! Your definition of crafting proper post is being a smart ass! Living in Denial sucks huh?

 

[pyrusane]

to mastadon Tentazord as you can see I haven't posted down that much post, as you can see, if you click on my link Einstein, I don't remember saying the spinning belt was awesome! As for you Pyrusane, maybe it doesn't get through that thick head of yours, I said, "the second time around, what's to stop Shawn from literally actually screw someone over, and that he's done it before, he'll probably do it again, try to read more along the lines! If there's anyone knowing about riding coattails, it's Shawn! Why are you in so much denial? Shawn is the same person he was then, he is now! Is it so much pain for you to gulp down the truth? Even you're denying yourself that VKM promos were a shoot! Your definition of crafting proper post is being a smart ass! Living in Denial sucks huh?

Omg that is hilarious. You think a sig quote I got like six months ago is directed at your rambling mess of a post? And I am expected to take anything you say seriously?

Seriously man, stop trying to predict the future based on nothing but your blind hatred of Shawn Michaels. The man is one of the best. Yes, he did play a lot of politics in the 90s. How anyone can say he still does to this day is beyond me.

 

[kc2788x]

Omg that is hilarious. You think a sig quote I got like six months ago is directed at your rambling mess of a post? And I am expected to take anything you say seriously?

Seriously man, stop trying to predict the future based on nothing but your blind hatred of Shawn Michaels. The man is one of the best. Yes, he did play a lot of politics in the 90s. How anyone can say he still does to this day is beyond me.

What is it up with you and thinking I can predict the future, base upon my post, I never said I can read or see or even predict the future, I said (yet again) even though it's a different time and era, Shawn is still the same person he was then, but you're only defense is, oh, it happened in the 90's, its ancient history! Is that all you're gonna say? Lets say you're in the wrestling business, you paved the way some-what the same way Shawn did, do you;
A; have your close best friend or close associate (someone you didn't have heat with) induct you into the hall of fame?
B; want a person you disliked and play politics to induct you into the wwe hall of fame?
If you answered B, why even screwed that person in the first place? What's to stop Shawn from doing it again? Gees, answered the thread for once! And stop using the "oh that happened a long time ago route!"

 

[CH David]

So basically you're saying, you only see the positive side of Shawn, and that he's a great guy at heart? You don't know and neither do I, Doesn't Shawn do exactly like what Hogan does, doesn't he take time off and come back, so lets see, he's gonna take time off, maybe a year, why should he come back and instantly be put in the lime light? I am not a big fan of Shawn or Hogan as I've said before! I am not in denial about Shawn not playing Politics, it seems you are! You didn't answer any of my facts!

I'm not even going to reply to your previous post, pyrusane beat me to it and did a good job too. But this is one where I have decided without a shadow of a doubt that you are indeed an idiot.

Shawn is going to take a year off eh? Go right back in the lime light after that huh? Holy crap you are a moron. Let's see a few factors here. A) Shawn won't take an entire year off unless it were an injury, and at his age, he may just call it quits if that were to happen. Older people take longer to heal, hopefully you know that now. Anyway, did HBK just go directly into the Main Event lime light when he came back this past summer? Umm...no he didn't. Lime light? Of course, but I mean, he is SHAWN FUCKING MICHAELS!!!!!!! Whether you like him or not, he has earned his paycheck. But it wasn't the Main Event. He returned as a member of the cash cow and ever popular group known as D-Generation X. But he got lime light, so he is evil!!!! Damn him to hell! He at the time had put over a promising looking Legacy, who have since faded into a land that few care about.

Since when does Shawn play politics this decade? Sure he may have a hand in how feuds go, but I mean, he is of sound mind, and is one of the greats of the company. Buuuuut, where are your facts? In the last 8 years since he has been back, when has he used his politics to his advantage? Find me documented proof. I would absolutely looooove to see it. And, since pyrusane already went through your so-called "facts" and basically destroyed your argument, I can't go on about them. You obviously have nothing of sound value to provide.

You're one of those John Cena haters getting ready to jump on the bandwagon when he turns heel huh? And basically you must be one of those guys who cheers for 3 move SHAME-US one which he copies ala the razors edge! None of us have to respect him, he just pays his dues like everyone else, except that everyone knows when their time is done, unlike, Hogan, Shawn, hhh, Flair!

We get that you aren't a fan of HBK or the Hulkster, and that you want a Cena heel turn. Nobody gives a shit. There will always be people wanting Cena to turn heel. You aren't any different, only when it comes to other things do you sound even more moronic. I'm a fan of Cena right now. Come bust my balls, I dare you. You are just a sad fan who thinks he knows everything.

Bolded part on Sheamus. I just went back, you like to repeat yourself right? Makes it stick in our heads that you aren't very smart. So thank you for pointing that out. You must be someone who says that "Cena sucks because he only knows 5 moves". Because you know, wrestlers are only good when they perform thousands of moves. If a wrestler only uses 6 moves, of which, I checked wikipedia, I know, horrible site to use, but it lists more than just 5 moves. I counted at least 10 that he has used in matches before. He performs them well, and doesn't need to know 50 different suplexes or submissions. Get over it man.

You said what I have so kindly bolded, at the end of your first post. Sheamus knows more than 3 moves, guaranteed of that. Every wrestler knows more than only 3 or 5 moves. It is all a matter of if Vince wants them to use them. Oh, and about how he stole the Razor's Edge, umm, there isn't a rule saying he can't use that move. I could say Robert Roode stole the Superkick from HBK. It works both ways, and doesn't make a difference. It was a move he learned when he came into the WWE, as he didn't use it much if at all before coming up.

Your last sentence is just a giant cluster of words that makes no sense. Are you talking about Cena, HBK, or Sheamus? I'll just guess HBK. Shawn can still perform at a high level, as well as Triple H. Hogan isn't performing in TNA, and Flair is Flair.

 

[CH David]

What is it up with you and thinking I can predict the future, base upon my post, I never said I can read or see or even predict the future, I said (yet again) even though it's a different time and era, Shawn is still the same person he was then, but you're only defense is, oh, it happened in the 90's, its ancient history! Is that all you're gonna say? Lets say you're in the wrestling business, you paved the way some-what the same way Shawn did, do you;
A; have your close best friend or close associate (someone you didn't have heat with) induct you into the hall of fame?
B; want a person you disliked and play politics to induct you into the wwe hall of fame?
If you answered B, why even screwed that person in the first place? What's to stop Shawn from doing it again? Gees, answered the thread for once! And stop using the "oh that happened a long time ago route!"

You again prove my point you are an idiot. Shawn isn't the same guy he was 15 years ago. I think being a Born-Again Christian would take away some of that douchebaggedness that he had back in the '90s. Plus you know, the drugs he was on didn't help him at all. His injury was possibly career threatening, back injuries aren't that easy to get over. Quite a few of us know about back injuries and their lingering effects.

And your question about whether Shawn should have Triple H or Bret induct him. Who gives a shit? Austin wasn't great friends with Vince, to the public anyway, why should he have Vince induct him? They were biiiiitter effin' rivals the last two years of the '90s. Maybe Shawn actually respects Bret now? Maybe after 13 years, he just wanted the hatchet buried? You are really just grasping at straws to think of Shawn being a horrible person aren't you?

 

[pyrusane]

What is it up with you and thinking I can predict the future, base upon my post, I never said I can read or see or even predict the future, I said (yet again) even though it's a different time and era, Shawn is still the same person he was then, but you're only defense is, oh, it happened in the 90's, its ancient history! Is that all you're gonna say? Lets say you're in the wrestling business, you paved the way some-what the same way Shawn did, do you;
A; have your close best friend or close associate (someone you didn't have heat with) induct you into the hall of fame?
B; want a person you disliked and play politics to induct you into the wwe hall of fame?
If you answered B, why even screwed that person in the first place? What's to stop Shawn from doing it again? Gees, answered the thread for once! And stop using the "oh that happened a long time ago route!"

You crack me up, junior. You are so all over the place its hard to keep up with which argument you are trying to use at any given time.

You assume that because Shawn played a part in one screwjob, 12 years ago, that may or may not have been the right thing to do done in the wrong way, that he is just biding his time, waiting to do it again. What's the difference between then and now? Well, how about that Taker is going to be leaving the day after the PPV to join another company. That, I would say, is a huge difference right there.

Tell me, oh sage one, how is the fact that Shawn's antics were over a decade ago not relevant. You sit here and you spout off about how he is the same person now that he was then, yet you offer zero evidence from the last ten years to justify that claim. Everything you have mentioned, including the promos by the NAO, are all referencing events that happened in the 90s. You use Shawn's behavior from the 90s as justification for hating the man now, even though you have offered no arguments to show that he is still the same person as he was then, other than

Shawn is still the same person he was then, but you're only defense is, oh, it happened in the 90's, its ancient history!

People, or at least most people, change as they get older. Its called growing up. Read up on it, it might help you a little. And as far as the HOF, and who he wants to induct him, what in the bloody hell does that have to do with anything?

Seriously man, take a few minutes, come up with a reasonable, well thought out argument that justifies your claim that he is the same person now that he was then, perhaps take a moment to collect and formulate your thoughts into something slightly resembling organized, and then, maybe, you might be able to present a halfway decent argument. Until then, I really don't see why you bother.

 

[kc2788x]

I'm not even going to reply to your previous post, pyrusane beat me to it and did a good job too. But this is one where I have decided without a shadow of a doubt that you are indeed an idiot.

Shawn is going to take a year off eh? Go right back in the lime light after that huh? Holy crap you are a moron. Let's see a few factors here. A) Shawn won't take an entire year off unless it were an injury, and at his age, he may just call it quits if that were to happen. Older people take longer to heal, hopefully you know that now. Anyway, did HBK just go directly into the Main Event lime light when he came back this past summer? Umm...no he didn't. Lime light? Of course, but I mean, he is SHAWN FUCKING MICHAELS!!!!!!! Whether you like him or not, he has earned his paycheck. But it wasn't the Main Event. He returned as a member of the cash cow and ever popular group known as D-Generation X. But he got lime light, so he is evil!!!! Damn him to hell! He at the time had put over a promising looking Legacy, who have since faded into a land that few care about.

Since when does Shawn play politics this decade? Sure he may have a hand in how feuds go, but I mean, he is of sound mind, and is one of the greats of the company. Buuuuut, where are your facts? In the last 8 years since he has been back, when has he used his politics to his advantage? Find me documented proof. I would absolutely looooove to see it. And, since pyrusane already went through your so-called "facts" and basically destroyed your argument, I can't go on about them. You obviously have nothing of sound value to provide.




We get that you aren't a fan of HBK or the Hulkster, and that you want a Cena heel turn. Nobody gives a shit. There will always be people wanting Cena to turn heel. You aren't any different, only when it comes to other things do you sound even more moronic. I'm a fan of Cena right now. Come bust my balls, I dare you. You are just a sad fan who thinks he knows everything.

Bolded part on Sheamus. I just went back, you like to repeat yourself right? Makes it stick in our heads that you aren't very smart. So thank you for pointing that out. You must be someone who says that "Cena sucks because he only knows 5 moves". Because you know, wrestlers are only good when they perform thousands of moves. If a wrestler only uses 6 moves, of which, I checked wikipedia, I know, horrible site to use, but it lists more than just 5 moves. I counted at least 10 that he has used in matches before. He performs them well, and doesn't need to know 50 different suplexes or submissions. Get over it man.

You said what I have so kindly bolded, at the end of your first post. Sheamus knows more than 3 moves, guaranteed of that. Every wrestler knows more than only 3 or 5 moves. It is all a matter of if Vince wants them to use them. Oh, and about how he stole the Razor's Edge, umm, there isn't a rule saying he can't use that move. I could say Robert Roode stole the Superkick from HBK. It works both ways, and doesn't make a difference. It was a move he learned when he came into the WWE, as he didn't use it much if at all before coming up.

Your last sentence is just a giant cluster of words that makes no sense. Are you talking about Cena, HBK, or Sheamus? I'll just guess HBK. Shawn can still perform at a high level, as well as Triple H. Hogan isn't performing in TNA, and Flair is Flair.

hahhe well, maybe you should read my other threads on John Cena you, I am a JOHN CENA fan, so whose the idiot now, as I've said in my post, there's only idiot Cena haters who's just waiting on John cena to turn heel and then bandwagon jump him like they did the rock! Unlike you, I root for John and Kane to win the royal rumble every year, I was referring to those dumb morons who complain because supposedly, John only has 5 moves, that is the excuse the john haters are using! He never answered any of my facts besides saying it was a shoot and that it happened in the 90's, what you're not getting is that as I've said before, if he's unprofessional to those he works with before, what's to stop him from doing it again.

 

[CH David]

hahhe well, maybe you should read my other threads on John Cena you, I am a JOHN CENA fan, so whose the idiot now, as I've said in my post, there's only idiot Cena haters who's just waiting on John cena to turn heel and then bandwagon jump him like they did the rock! Unlike you, I root for John and Kane to win the royal rumble, I was referring to those dumb morons who complain because supposedly, John only has 5 moves, that is the excuse the john haters are using! He never answered any of my facts besides saying it was a shoot and that it happened in the 90's, what you're not getting is that as I've said before, if he's unprofessional to those he works with before, what's to stop him from doing it again.

So you are a Cena fan, but you want a heel turn? Huh? I guess it is possible, still doesn't change you the facts, you are just an idiot trying to paint Shawn Michaels as a bad person.

Oh, and I'm not an idiot. I don't spout off on how Shawn is a demon who is going to screw over a person now. I actually used good points, which I like how you didn't answer any of them, since you have nothing more to go on. pyrusane himself, answered your idiot "facts" as best as possible. Their "shoots" about how DX wanted them, I'm guessing you are meaning the ones in TNA, were you know, a promo since they had nothing going then. Everything else was in the '90s. Before the back injury, before he got clean, and before he was a Born Again Christian. Face it, in the '00s, you have got nothing bad against Shawn Michaels.

 

[SSJPhenom]

So basically you're saying, you only see the positive side of Shawn, and that he's a great guy at heart? You don't know and neither do I, Doesn't Shawn do exactly like what Hogan does, doesn't he take time off and come back, so lets see, he's gonna take time off, maybe a year, why should he come back and instantly be put in the lime light? I am not a big fan of Shawn or Hogan as I've said before! I am not in denial about Shawn not playing Politics, it seems you are! You didn't answer any of my facts! You're one of those John Cena haters getting ready to jump on the bandwagon when he turns heel huh? And basically you must be one of those guys who cheers for 3 move SHAME-US one which he copies ala the razors edge! None of us have to respect him, he just pays his dues like everyone else, except that everyone knows when their time is done, unlike, Hogan, Shawn, hhh, Flair!

You don't know me. Why are making accusations about who I like and who I don't like? You shouldn't let your mouth write checks that your ass can't cash.

I'm not a Cena hater and I have said many times how much I respect Cena. I can't stand Shaemus, FYI. Also, why do I have to answer any of your questions? I wasn't even talking to you.

Not once in my post did I talk about Shawn's personality or whether or not I liked him as a person. I just talked about what I know about Shawn Michaels and that is, that he is a great in ring performer and you can't deny that. So why would you respond to me and talk about shit that I didn't even bring up?

Your post made abso-fucking-lutely no sense at all.

 

[kc2788x]

You crack me up, junior. You are so all over the place its hard to keep up with which argument you are trying to use at any given time.

You assume that because Shawn played a part in one screwjob, 12 years ago, that may or may not have been the right thing to do done in the wrong way, that he is just biding his time, waiting to do it again. What's the difference between then and now? Well, how about that Taker is going to be leaving the day after the PPV to join another company. That, I would say, is a huge difference right there.

Tell me, oh sage one, how is the fact that Shawn's antics were over a decade ago not relevant. You sit here and you spout off about how he is the same person now that he was then, yet you offer zero evidence from the last ten years to justify that claim. Everything you have mentioned, including the promos by the NAO, are all referencing events that happened in the 90s. You use Shawn's behavior from the 90s as justification for hating the man now, even though you have offered no arguments to show that he is still the same person as he was then, other than

People, or at least most people, change as they get older. Its called growing up. Read up on it, it might help you a little. And as far as the HOF, and who he wants to induct him, what in the bloody hell does that have to do with anything?

Seriously man, take a few minutes, come up with a reasonable, well thought out argument that justifies your claim that he is the same person now that he was then, perhaps take a moment to collect and formulate your thoughts into something slightly resembling organized, and then, maybe, you might be able to present a halfway decent argument. Until then, I really don't see why you bother.

that's because I am here debating on this subject! so you wanna know a few bits of truth, don't be like others, saying the reason jericho and show lost to dx was because they have a angle with jericho and edge. NO ONE knew edge was coming for the RR. You really honestly believe they didn't play politics to win the unified tag team titles? You gonna sit there and lie to me, what happened when they became champ, they never defended it, it was defended ONCE to the hart dynasty and that was it, then wk after wk, they drag the unified title like nothing! IT was for only THEIR CREDIBILITY! you gonna sit there and deny me that? and to all those idiots out there saying I dislike John cena, how many times am I gonna tell you, I am John cena fan, whether he turns heel or not doesn't matter! Now lets look at SHAME-US, post after post, people says he's fresh, he's new, he's boring as hell! Now he's using the razors edge, are you kidding me!

 

[pyrusane]

I was referring to those dumb morons who complain because supposedly, John only has 5 moves, that is the excuse the john haters are using!

And you see, this is part of why you fail. This thread has fuck-all to do with John Cena, yet you make this huge argument about him in the middle of it. Try to stay on topic, it makes things easier for everyone.

He never answered any of my facts besides saying it was a shoot and that it happened in the 90's, what you're not getting is that as I've said before, if he's unprofessional to those he works with before, what's to stop him from doing it again.

You really don't get it, do you? People change. Twelve years is a mighty long time. So, you ask what's to stop him from doing it again, since he did it before? How about maturity? How about learning from past mistakes? Hell, are you the same person you were twelve years ago? Do you make the same mistakes, act the same way that you did then? Wait...you might not be the best example...

 

[TLC]

that's because I am here debating on this subject! so you wanna know a few bits of truth, don't be like others, saying the reason jericho and show lost to dx was because they have a angle with jericho and edge. NO ONE knew edge was coming for the RR. You really honestly believe they didn't play politics to win the unified tag team titles? You gonna sit there and lie to me, what happened when they became champ, they never defended it, it was defended ONCE to the hart dynasty and that was it, then wk after wk, they drag the unified title like nothing! IT was for only THEIR CREDIBILITY! you gonna sit there and deny me that? and to all those idiots out there saying I dislike John cena, how many times am I gonna tell you, I am John cena fan, whether he turns heel or not doesn't matter! Now lets look at SHAME-US, post after post, people says he's fresh, he's new, he's boring as hell! Now he's using the razors edge, are you kidding me!

Wow. This post was so all over the place I don't know where to start.

About Jerishow losing the tag titles. No I doubt they did use politics to get the tag titles. It was Jerishow's time to lose the tag titles and DX was the only team that we're good enough to take it off them. Plus its very good business putting two of you most over stars who sell fuck load of merchandise as your champions.

They only held the titles for about 8 weeks and defended them three times if you count the time they lost them. Take a look when Jerishow defended them. Always at pay per views. Rarely did they defend them on free tv which DX did. I'm sure if it was any pay per view other than the Royal Rumble or Wrestlemania they would off defended them at the PPV.

Why the fuck are you talking about Cena and Sheamus in a fucking thread about HBK? Thats almost as bad as when you started listing every fucking wrestler you liked. This is not what the thread is about. Try not to lose focus.

 

[pyrusane]

that's because I am here debating on this subject! so you wanna know a few bits of truth, don't be like others, saying the reason jericho and show lost to dx was because they have a angle with jericho and edge. NO ONE knew edge was coming for the RR. You really honestly believe they didn't play politics to win the unified tag team titles? You gonna sit there and lie to me, what happened when they became champ, they never defended it, it was defended ONCE to the hart dynasty and that was it, then wk after wk, they drag the unified title like nothing! IT was for only THEIR CREDIBILITY! you gonna sit there and deny me that? and to all those idiots out there saying I dislike John cena, how many times am I gonna tell you, I am John cena fan, whether he turns heel or not doesn't matter! Now lets look at SHAME-US, post after post, people says he's fresh, he's new, he's boring as hell! Now he's using the razors edge, are you kidding me!

You really are dumb. So, do you mean to say you think he just showed up that night and told Vince "Oh, by the way, I'm all healed up now. Can I go win the rumble?" Of course not. Just because it wasn't common knowledge on here that Edge was definitely coming back, don't show your complete lack of intelligence by insisting that creative didn't have a clue either.

As far as the titles being used to build credibility for DX... DX gained nothing from that title reign. You're talking about one of the most over tag-teams ever, and I don't mean to imply they are one of the best ever, just that they are one of the most popular. They didn't need that title win to cement their place in history, they were the epitome of transitional champions. They took the belts from JeriShow, feuded with them for a few weeks over the rematch, then as soon as Edge showed up to start his feud with Jericho, they lost them to MizShow. Could the belts have been handled better? Absolutely. Was the win solely for the purpose of giving them a tag title reign? Doubtful. If that were the case, it is far more likely they would have held them a long time ago.

I'm not going to respond to your Cena/Shaemus argument. It has absolutely no bearing on this thread, and I really don't care enough about your opinion to bother with it.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

You say HBK is unprofessional for making a mockery of the match and Hogan is unprofessional by forcing this type of booking. But Hogan's still morally correct for performing at his highest level in front of the audience while HBK is more unprofessional because he made it funny and entertaining to watch? It makes no sense.

Wait, weren't YOU the motherfucker just calling someone out for using information that had zero factual evidence behind it? HBK's booking influence I mean? So what factual evidence do we have for Hogan "turning this into" a one match deal besides "well thats the story I have heard" For all we really know, this was a one off big money match deal. Makes sense to me. When the fuck would the blow off had been? Fucking "No Mercy" ? "Cyber Sunday" ? Give me a fucking break. Sounds like HBK appologist bullshit. A fucking excuse for the smarko god to throw a huge crybaby fit and ruin what was a top ten match of all time, star power wise.

By saying that it was funny, were you entertained?

I'm guessing your answer is "yes", along with mine.

You would guess wrong. I was fucking livid, and this is coming from someone who is a huge fan of HBK.

This match was not meant to be serious... not by ANY means. Even the average non-smark fan realized that Hogan's win was a total joke and a spit in the fact of the business.

How in THE FUCK was this not meant to be serious? It was HULK FUCKIN HOGAN MAN. HBK turned heel and superkicked the bejeesus out of him. Did you not watch that raw? the fucking contract signing promo..."You go out here every night for YOURSELF, brother...I go out here for ALL OF THESE PEOPLE"....it wasnt supposed to be taken serious? This post, apparently, isnt supposed to be taken serious....

Let's face it, at the time, Hogan was a limping, over-the-hill legend with a bad limp, one hip, and could barely give a leg drop to an opponent.

and what the fuck was Ric Flair? Once again, these are fucking weak, fucking transparent excuses. If HBK was a fucking professional, he would have taken care of Hogan, and given people the match they deserved. But on this night, he wasn't, he was a petulant little child, who ruined the fucking match. Thank goodness HOGAN is a fucking professional, and didnt decide to go stiff on him and split his fucking wig.

HBK's joking antics SAVED that match from disaster. After all, do you even remember the interviews that HBK had in the weeks prior to the match? Do you remember him wearing a wig, fake mustache, and giving one of the funniest interviews of his career? The entire ANGLE was a joke. So HBK made the match go that way, as well. And after it was all over, Hogan wasn't bitter. So who are we to judge?

I don't se how all that was a joke. The angle. Becuase he made a mockery of Hogan and his greatness? Well, I suppose every angle with mocking promo is "a joke"....As ive said before, more bullshit excuses.

 

[CH David]

Idiot, there's no such thing as a born again Christian! good points my ass!

You are such a moron, it is ungodly funny. Being a Born Again Christian means to accept Jesus as the Messiah, and receiving the Holy Spirit. I don't mean to preach or anything, just what the general premise is. Shawn did this after his back injury. He had personal demons to deal with. He accepted Christ into his life, and is now a different person. He doesn't do drugs, he isn't an asshole backstage, if he is, it isn't to the degree it was 14-15 years ago. You seriously are either a sheltered person, or just too damn ignorant to learn about other people. Shawn Michaels came back to the business a different person. Get it through your thick skull.