Samoa Joe, TNA you're TOO Late, Learn When to Pull The Trigger.

[jaceynightheat]

[1] Samoa Joe isn't that great. If he had a manager, I think he'd be better. Or at least a better writer.

[2] How is taking former WWE talent bad? WWE took a lot of ECW talent and made them World Champions.

[3] WWE not pushing new talent. Why should they? People will bitch and still watch. HBK doesn't really need to change his style, he can wrestle a great match with anyone. Undertaker is always changing.

[4] a lot of new TNA people suck. Kaz, not just his new short version of his name sucks. But everything else about him too.


[5] TNA missed out chances to really build up people like Daniels & Low Ki too.

 

[Total Impact]

The Reason I say that Kurt isn’t a draw, is because the ratings haven’t changed since Kurt Angle has been in TNA. When I think of the TNA title, I think of Jeff Jarrett way before I think of Kurt Angle because Jeff was a way better heel than Angle and didn’t have stupid love triangles with his wife and other wrestlers that didn’t even make sense. TNA is on the best night wrestling can be on, Thursday Night, a night in which more TV is watch and they can’t even beat ECW. Yeah Kurt is a real draw.

Kurt isn’t by himself, but he isn’t going or hasn’t brought in fans to TNA that is worth TNA mentioning. The only star that has brought in fans and buyrates up is Sting and he guess what when he came into TNA, started jobbing to everyone he could and making people look good. Yeah he won the belt twice, but each time he did, he didn’t want to do it and dropped it as quick as he could to make someone look good.

TNA has to be different in order to compete with the WWE, that is was what the WWE has done and WCW did to beat the WWE. Yeah bring in WWE talent, but do something different with them that we haven’t seen in the WWE. Christian is the only WWE talent they ever did right, they made him face something that he was on the verge of doing in the WWE, but never happened and it was something different.

AS for WWE making new talent, yeah Triple H, Cena, Undertaker, Batista, HBK, Edge, & Orton are at the top, but Cena, Batista, Edge & Orton have only been at the top 3 to four years. Then you have new semi-main event talent in Umaga, Jeff Hardy, Mr. Kennedy, Great Khali, MVP, CM Punk, you can add John Morrison, Matt Hardy, Big Daddy V. Supporting stars in Carlito, Santino Marrella, Festus, The Miz, Shelton Benjamin, Hornswoggle, Finlay, Cryme Tyme,

They should make stars to bring viewers away from the WWE as they need to be different. Not saying Samoa Joe will bring the ratings up through the roof, because I think TNA missed that boat at Victory Road 06 in giving him his proper push to cause a stir in the busy. Back then it would have been a shock in the world of wrestling to see this Samoa Joe, now its like oh well they gave Joe the belt, nothing major. Overall TNA needs to be different and job WWE talent, make TNA look great.

 

[Father:_Polley]

[1] Samoa Joe isn't that great. If he had a manager, I think he'd be better. Or at least a better writer.

[2] How is taking former WWE talent bad? WWE took a lot of ECW talent and made them World Champions.

[3] WWE not pushing new talent. Why should they? People will bitch and still watch. HBK doesn't really need to change his style, he can wrestle a great match with anyone. Undertaker is always changing.

[4] a lot of new TNA people suck. Kaz, not just his new short version of his name sucks. But everything else about him too.

[5] TNA missed out chances to really build up people like Daniels & Low Ki too.

[1] neither of the reasons you have given suggest it's joe's ring work that's letting him down. he's not great on the mic, but he can only get better with practice.

2. other than stone cold, very few of the likes of benoit, eddie guerrero, chris jericho, rey mysterio and rvd ever got more than one reign, none of which lasted more than 6 months

3. they should because they all want less work less and arent going to last forever. then what happens? you have nothing to work with.

4. some are awful...but you need all sorts to make a company

5. daniels is still there and low-ki wanted out

how does that mean joe's not worthy to hold the title?

 

[millar]

i think joe got the belt at the wroung time should of been earlier lets be honest he is going to defend it against scot steiners win then lose it next month in the king of the mountian match proberly against christian,angle,sting or booker t which is prob the most unlikely

 

[AndySmithers]

He just got the title and people here seem to be already talking about how it was too late/he will be losing it soon. Funny...

I think he should have the title for at least 3 months or it wont look good.

I am interested to see what TNA are going to do with Joe at the helm.

 

[Uncle Sam]

The Reason I say that Kurt isn’t a draw, is because the ratings haven’t changed since Kurt Angle has been in TNA. When I think of the TNA title, I think of Jeff Jarrett way before I think of Kurt Angle because Jeff was a way better heel than Angle and didn’t have stupid love triangles with his wife and other wrestlers that didn’t even make sense. TNA is on the best night wrestling can be on, Thursday Night, a night in which more TV is watch and they can’t even beat ECW. Yeah Kurt is a real draw.

The ratings have reached their highest ever with Angle at the helm. Problem being, the ratings haven't been consistent. TNA also secured the two hours with Angle as top dog. Fact is, Joe cannot outdraw Angle and he hasn't. Nor has Jarrett. ECW, crap or not, is part of the WWE family - the reason WWE stays so popular is largely due to the lock they have on the audience. TNA doesn't have anywhere near that kind of lock and its loyal core of fans is much smaller than WWE. Besides, TNA has beaten ECW on certain weeks. The only problem now is consistency.

Kurt isn’t by himself, but he isn’t going or hasn’t brought in fans to TNA that is worth TNA mentioning. The only star that has brought in fans and buyrates up is Sting and he guess what when he came into TNA, started jobbing to everyone he could and making people look good. Yeah he won the belt twice, but each time he did, he didn’t want to do it and dropped it as quick as he could to make someone look good.

How does Abyss winning the title make him look good? How does Kurt Angle winning cheaply make him look good, as if he needed to anyway? Sting hasn't been champion nearly long enough to even begin to compare his reign to Angle's.

TNA has to be different in order to compete with the WWE, that is was what the WWE has done and WCW did to beat the WWE. Yeah bring in WWE talent, but do something different with them that we haven’t seen in the WWE. Christian is the only WWE talent they ever did right, they made him face something that he was on the verge of doing in the WWE, but never happened and it was something different.

It's a shame that Christian has had most of his success as a heel, and is definitely much better as a heel. TNA does do something different - at times it's brilliant, at others it's atrocious.

AS for WWE making new talent, yeah Triple H, Cena, Undertaker, Batista, HBK, Edge, & Orton are at the top, but Cena, Batista, Edge & Orton have only been at the top 3 to four years. Then you have new semi-main event talent in Umaga, Jeff Hardy, Mr. Kennedy, Great Khali, MVP, CM Punk, you can add John Morrison, Matt Hardy, Big Daddy V. Supporting stars in Carlito, Santino Marrella, Festus, The Miz, Shelton Benjamin, Hornswoggle, Finlay, Cryme Tyme,

And? TNA relies on big names because it's in such a fragile position right now they need a proven draw on top of the card. You're also forgetting WWE has three brands in comparison to TNA's one. And TNA doesn't really have a large roster anyway. I'm also amazed you listed Festus, The Miz and Big Daddy V...

They should make stars to bring viewers away from the WWE as they need to be different. Not saying Samoa Joe will bring the ratings up through the roof, because I think TNA missed that boat at Victory Road 06 in giving him his proper push to cause a stir in the busy. Back then it would have been a shock in the world of wrestling to see this Samoa Joe, now its like oh well they gave Joe the belt, nothing major. Overall TNA needs to be different and job WWE talent, make TNA look great.

Then WWE and WCW talent will just gladly leave TNA. They have stuff like title reigns written into their contract. They shouldn't be expected to be jobbed out to TNA talent, and they most definitely wouldn't. The only reason ex-WWE talent comes to TNA is because they're the only feasible alternative. They wouldn't be so feasible if they started jobbing Kurt Angle out to Eric Young, nor do I think would new viewers be particularly impressed by that anyway.

 

[powers_the_dragon]

It amazes me how much people bitch about everything TNA does. Yes, the MMA style match was a bad idea, but at least they tried something different. The reason I have started watching WWE less and TNA more is because WWE puts the same boring shit on all of the time. I mean, C'Mon! I could care less about JBL being in the title hunt. I personally hope Orton keeps his title, or HHH wins it. As much as people bitch about HHH can it be denied that he hasn't had the title for awhile? Anyway, this isn't about WWE, it's about TNA/Samoa Joe.

I agree with TNA keeping Joe from having the title for awhile. They have been growing the company. Kurt Angle is an amazing wrestler and someone who typically makes others look like a million bucks in the ring. I think Joe is an amazing wrestler and it was time for Joe to win the belt, hell, it was probably way overdue, but I'm not going to bitch. At least he has the title now. That's all that matters. I don't mind Steiner going for the title, but I hope like hell they don't put the belt on him. He can barely move in the ring. I can see Joe keeping the belt for a decent reign and I don't worry that he'll have a hard time as a believable champion. His mic skills, in my opinion are just fine and his wrestling work is amazing. Of course, I think TNA talent blows WWE away in pretty much everything. Hell, The TNA Knockouts are better than pretty much everything I see on Raw. I won't talk about Smackdown and ECW? C'Mon!

 

[SpiralHands]

The Reason I say that Kurt isn’t a draw, is because the ratings haven’t changed since Kurt Angle has been in TNA..

Yeah okies you made that point in the first post, but wheres your proof? How can you prove that Angle hasnt made the ratings go up? Just because TNAs ratings didnt go up to 2 or 3 since Angle came doesnt mean that they havent gone up, im pretty sure they have. And its not all about ratings, its about exposure and carrying the company into the limelight something a multi time world champ and tremendous wrestler Kurt Angle is able to do! Joe couldnt have and this is his test now to see if he can!

When I think of the TNA title, I think of Jeff Jarrett way before I think of Kurt Angle because Jeff was a way better heel than Angle and didn’t have stupid love triangles with his wife and other wrestlers that didn’t even make sense..

Yeah ok the love triangle thing may have been annoying but its bulding a fued between a top TNA star and Top star from another promotion thats in TNA. That my friend will draw money. And besides its entertainment, cant all be about wrestling. Okies Jeff didnt have any love triangles, but he books them now doesnt he? Whats the difference?

The only star that has brought in fans and buyrates up is Sting.

How do you know this? Do you have proof? Sting is just as well recognized in wrestling as Kurt is. Kurt is probaly more recognized to new fans which is more important!

AS for WWE making new talent, yeah Triple H, Cena, Undertaker, Batista, HBK, Edge, & Orton are at the top, but Cena, Batista, Edge & Orton have only been at the top 3 to four years..

Yeah 3 to 4 years? Come on HHH and Undertaker have been there much longer than that. But thats not the point. 3 to 4 years, TNA has been running nearly 6 years and Kurt has been at the top less than 2 years! And you say TNA needs to make new talent?

Then you have new semi-main event talent in Umaga, Jeff Hardy, Mr. Kennedy, Great Khali, MVP, CM Punk, you can add John Morrison, Matt Hardy, Big Daddy V. Supporting stars in Carlit, Santino Marrella, Festus, The Miz, Shelton Benjamin, Hornswoggle, Finlay, Cryme Tyme.

Well okies granted Jeff, Kennedy, MVP, Khali, Punk are semi maineventers, but TNA has semi main eventers as well as we all know so whats your point?
And I would hardly call Big Daddy Carlito and the rest of the list semi main eventers, have you watched Raw recently my goodness same matches every week and no new talent has been made.

Back then it would have been a shock in the world of wrestling to see this Samoa Joe, now its like oh well they gave Joe the belt, nothing major.

How would if it caused a stir if the belt wasnt worth anything? Which is wasnt, TNA in 2006 was just a higher up indy company with a belt in pro wrestling that if anyone would have won, that was of the likes of Joe or AJ (not that known and exposed to in the wrestling world) it would have made zero impact! By having Kurt Angle come in and win the belt it gives it creditbility, people think wow Kurt is now in this other promotion and so therfore must be good and worth the belt if he has gone thier from the WWE. and thats a FACT! Joe was not ready for the belt. You cant put the belt on someone who no one knows!

 

[Audioslave]

And? TNA relies on big names because it's in such a fragile position right now they need a proven draw on top of the card. You're also forgetting WWE has three brands in comparison to TNA's one. And TNA doesn't really have a large roster anyway. I'm also amazed you listed Festus, The Miz and Big Daddy V...

TNA didn't need to utilize big names after a while, because they solidified their base number of fans at 1.0 after a year even in the shit timeslot that it was. That was the time when you shove someone fresh into the spotlight with the belt. You take your homegrown guy and then you have a top WWE guy coming in, then you program them together. It's putting a fresh, new face at the top. When WWE put the belt on Edge and their ratings shot up into 4.5's for those three weeks. And it rejuvenated the whole product by showcasing new, fresh faces in a feud.

Also I think they reason why they put Festus and Big Daddy V in there is because they reinvented Viscera, added a unique character to the roster that gets some pretty good reactions and.. well, then there's the Miz. What's the beef with him? The guy has star potential, personality and him and Morrison's "Dirt Sheet" segments have been pretty ace. He's improved leaps and bounds since he joined the WWE. I'm not saying he'll be WWE champ or anything, but he's awesome doing what he is now.

 

[schaeffershawn]

the problem TNA has as I have said before is that they do not use homegrown talent well enough. AJ styles, Christopher Daniles, Elix Skipper, James Storm, Abyss, Robert Roode, not to mention cast offs Ron Killings, Raven and Chris Harris all have main event ability and talent, and all have been used less and less effectively since the arrival of more and more WWE rejects. With the exception of Christian who in the WWE group has worked more then one long term fued with a TNA original. Kurt has fueded with Joe, Sting, Christian, Nash and for one night Kaz, Tomko and some other minor guys. Booker T has had one fued since comming in. Truth betold only Christian and the Dudleys have contributed to making TNA stars better themselves and thats a problem.

 

[The_Natural]

I agree with the thread starter.

TNA has basically done everything wrong in the past 3 years. This company was at their best when the were back in Nashville producing half-decent shows. TNA is nothing more than a cartoon now with a bunch of cartoon wrestlers. Heck even AJ has become a cartoon and he pratically made TNA...Joe is sure to follow. In it's short history TNA has already burn themselves out with gimmick matches and signing every horrible WWE reject you can imagine. They are truely the new WCW in that they have back who is willing to throw all kinds of money at them despite management using it in all the wrong ways.

Joe's title run is the only hope TNA has at becoming legit. If his title run isn't the start of some real changes then TNA is done within the next 3 years beacause they get no PPV buys and Impact continues to draw 1.0 or less ratings.

TNA is really cheating the fans having Vince Russo, Dutch Mantel and Jeff Jarret still shoving garbage down our throats week after week.

 

[Mark78]

I agree that was very informative and understanding. I just feel its now very important for TNA to let Joe have the same run he did in ROH. My question who do feud with should TNA bring in wrestlers from Japan. If TNA was to present his challengers the way AJPW was title contenders then it could work. I think he shouldn't be a storyline driven champion. Joe title defense must be based on the best man and strictly competition. I would love to see Joe face Styles again.

 

[finoj05]

This is a pretty ludicrous discussion. Somehow, everyone thinks TNA should have broke the laws of the wrestling business and gave Joe the belt just a year or two into his career in TNA. While in ROH, this was fine. TNA however had stars such as Sting, Christian Cage, Scott Steiner, Rhino, Jeff Jarrett, Kevin Nash and eventually Kurt Angle and Booker T. They wanted Joe to chase the title and build his reputation with the fans who came to see those names. They did just that.

Would i have liked to see Joe get the belt sooner? Yes.

Was the booking sketchy along the way? Yes.

Does it really matter? No.

Here is some history for you...

Steve Austin debuted in WWE in 1995, after several years in WCW. He became hot in June of 1996 and quickly became the most interesting wrestler in the WWF when they were losing the ratings war to WCW. Austin had a long feud with Bret Hart where he lost most of the matches and ultimately lost the feud. He wasn't crowned champion till April of 1998 (in Boston, MA) when he beat HBK. The belt was switched between Bret Hart, HBK, The Undertaker and Sid Vicious (all established stars) over that time.

Samoa Joe debuted in TNA in June of 2005, won the X-Division title within a few months and went on an undefeated streak that lasted for 16 months. He lost his first match to Kurt Angle in November of 2006. He had evenly matched feud with Angle where he was screwed out of his final Iron-Man rubber match after the clock ran out. He lost a title match to Cage in March of 2007, was screwed out of the title again during the king of the mountain match, won both the tag titles and the X-Division title during the next month. He fought Angle at Hard Justice and was screwed again. He then went on a rampage, ending Christian Cage's undefeated streak at Bound For Glory. He then went on his most recent run, winning every PPV match he wrestled in besides a handicap loss to the tag champions in January. He won the title at Lockdown in Boston, MA in April of 2008.

Seems to me Joe has had a better first 3 years then Austin had in WWE. While Joe may have not been champion, most of his booking over the past year has kept him close to the belt and making history. He had a year and a half undefeated streak, had a feud with Kurt Angle where he came out looking good, got screwed out of three title matches, won several X-Division titles and won the tag titles. He also gave Christian Cage his first submission in TNA.

What else did you want? TNA needed Kurt Angle as champion to give the belt credibility. While, we can all question their booking in the past 2 years, the timing of his title reign wasn't off by much of how other greats such as Steve Austin, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels got their first title.

People from the Glenn forum know i critic TNA every chance i get. But i can't say they did much wrong here. Joe is champion. We asked for it, we got it. I am happy. Forget about the lost time. Joe is 29 years old. He has all the time in the world now.

For those that didn't watch the PPV, the match between him and Angle was pretty damn good. It wasn't your normal TNA main event, that is for sure. It was different. They hyped it the entire show. Joe's family was there. There was no dumb interferences or comedy. It was JOE and ANGLE. They hyped it like it was a big deal. TNA broke their attendance record for the show. Not sure what everyones problem is.

 

[Total Impact]

This is a pretty ludicrous discussion. Somehow, everyone thinks TNA should have broke the laws of the wrestling business and gave Joe the belt just a year or two into his career in TNA. While in ROH, this was fine. TNA however had stars such as Sting, Christian Cage, Scott Steiner, Rhino, Jeff Jarrett, Kevin Nash and eventually Kurt Angle and Booker T. They wanted Joe to chase the title and build his reputation with the fans who came to see those names. They did just that.

Would i have liked to see Joe get the belt sooner? Yes.

Was the booking sketchy along the way? Yes.

Does it really matter? No.

Here is some history for you...

Steve Austin debuted in WWE in 1995, after several years in WCW. He became hot in June of 1996 and quickly became the most interesting wrestler in the WWF when they were losing the ratings war to WCW. Austin had a long feud with Bret Hart where he lost most of the matches and ultimately lost the feud. He wasn't crowned champion till April of 1998 (in Boston, MA) when he beat HBK. The belt was switched between Bret Hart, HBK, The Undertaker and Sid Vicious (all established stars) over that time.

Samoa Joe debuted in TNA in June of 2005, won the X-Division title within a few months and went on an undefeated streak that lasted for 16 months. He lost his first match to Kurt Angle in November of 2006. He had evenly matched feud with Angle where he was screwed out of his final Iron-Man rubber match after the clock ran out. He lost a title match to Cage in March of 2007, was screwed out of the title again during the king of the mountain match, won both the tag titles and the X-Division title during the next month. He fought Angle at Hard Justice and was screwed again. He then went on a rampage, ending Christian Cage's undefeated streak at Bound For Glory. He then went on his most recent run, winning every PPV match he wrestled in besides a handicap loss to the tag champions in January. He won the title at Lockdown in Boston, MA in April of 2008.

Seems to me Joe has had a better first 3 years then Austin had in WWE. While Joe may have not been champion, most of his booking over the past year has kept him close to the belt and making history. He had a year and a half undefeated streak, had a feud with Kurt Angle where he came out looking good, got screwed out of three title matches, won several X-Division titles and won the tag titles. He also gave Christian Cage his first submission in TNA.

What else did you want? TNA needed Kurt Angle as champion to give the belt credibility. While, we can all question their booking in the past 2 years, the timing of his title reign wasn't off by much of how other greats such as Steve Austin, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels got their first title.

People from the Glenn forum know i critic TNA every chance i get. But i can't say they did much wrong here. Joe is champion. We asked for it, we got it. I am happy. Forget about the lost time. Joe is 29 years old. He has all the time in the world now.

Brock Lesnar won the WWE Champion within his first five or six months in the WWE and got over like a gems and brought something new to the WWE product. Kurt Angle won the WWE Title within his first year, Randy Orton within his first two years. So winning the belt when you are hot does work as it brings people attention to what is this new guy when need to be watching, hell just look at Goldberg, and how great it worked for WCW. What I’m saying is TNA waits too late to pull the trigger when the wrestler is at their peak. Joe is the champion now, but it’s like an ok moment instead of a moment we will all remember.

I watch TNA every week, but its like they are on crack with the writing and that they never watch the Impact from last week and come up with new stuff that doesn’t make sense from the week before. Then they copy everything from the WWE with Feast or Fired, they stole form Money in the Bank, Super Eric, anyone remember Hurricane Helms? Awesome Kong is just a overweight Jazz. Robert Rhoode is JBL. To go back to the love Triangle with Kurt and his wife, anyone remember the love Triangle with Kurt Triple H, & Steph. Now I know wrestling is recycling, but at least TNA could do something different than what the WWE did, hell at least the WWE admits to taking old gimmicks and trying them out again.

TNA is trying to build a product on old WWE/WCW/ECW talent when it was the TNA talent that worked the crowds in Nashville. It was the TNA talent that got them to FSN, it was the TNA talent that got them to Spike and it’s the homegrown TNA talent you should push. When I think of TNA I want think of something different than the WWE, granted WCW & ECW used old WWE talent, but they all put a different spin on the old WWE talent and TNA seems to not know how to do it besides the case with Christian Cage & thanks for someone reminding me Team 3D that they actually used right. They all put over TNA talent.

TNA needs to be its own and then fans will cross the line as its not that WWE fans are loyal, but why watch WWE talent not used right in one organization when you can watch the WWE use talent right. It like what Bret Hart said about WCW, WCW didn’t know how to portray the Hitman, and TNA doesn’t know how to portray WWE talent. Like Vince or not, but the guy knows how to sell wrestling. TNA doesn’t know how to sell their product , as many see it as a cheap WWE rip-off.

 

[shingi]

i barely watch tna impact infact if it was not for him i would not give a crap about is and now they have given him the belt it is to late i mean you put on a unbelievable undefeated streak and still does not win he wins the x-division belt and dominates the whole division but you still dont give him the belt and know the stipulation was win or retire from pro wrestling and he finnaly wins.

 

[Total Impact]

i barely watch tna impact infact if it was not for him i would not give a crap about is and now they have given him the belt it is to late i mean you put on a unbelievable undefeated streak and still does not win he wins the x-division belt and dominates the whole division but you still dont give him the belt and know the stipulation was win or retire from pro wrestling and he finnaly wins.

That’s’ what I’m talking about, you put the belt on the guy when he is at his hottest and everyone is intrigued with h character. Joe thought about the WWE before TNA but TNA got him first and I remember watch TNA online jus tot see this guy and was hooked from day one and thought man TNA has gotten their guy then they just blew it with him losing. It was like when Goldberg lost the first time, he lost what made him special and that is what happen to Joe.

When Joe lost to Kurt, it made it seemed like everyone he beat was jobbers and wasn’t competition and as soon as a guy came from up north he lost proving that he wins were all for nothing.

TNA has been late on pulling trigger many times, hell I will go back to my old conversation on Monty Brown, he might not have been the best in the ring, but he could talk fans into the seats. He could have been their star, but they were scared to pull the trigger and it’s the reason why they will never be able to compete with the WWE title they learn to push a guy when they are in their peak.

 

[Audioslave]

@finoj: I already stated why Austin was booked WAY better and how that enabled them to delay his title win off until the perfect time. His feud with Bret, then the Austin versus Hart Foundation versus DX program that was one of the most layered programs in WWE's history, etc. He was RED HOT and getting even hotter.

The problem with them putting the belt on Joe this late, regardless of "breaking the laws of the wrestling business".. which, before I state my point, let me say is completely ludicrous. The law of the wrestling business is to make money. How do you make money? You put the belt on the hottest guy in the company and the dude that you would want to represent your brand. Joe fit this label to a T. The problem with them putting the belt on Joe later than they should have (like, at BFG 06) is that they did not have the high-quality booking necessary to sustain Joe's heat. It was the exact opposite of that. The booking didn't make him look good, it made him look like a fucking idiot.

 

[finoj05]

I think many people are getting confused here.

First off, the Brock Lesnar, Goldberg, and Kurt Angle (and mostly all the ones that people mentioned that happened quicker) title reigns were during a time that either WCW/WWE were at a close race for the ratings or that WWE was the only game in town.

TNA don't exactly have control over their product as much. They have to answer to SpikeTV, who put money into TNA for Sting and possibly Kurt Angle's contract. Those could have had a long title reign in there as part of the contracts. They need to give their big signings incentive for staying. Cage, Sting and Angle took big risks on a company with little track record and barely comparable cash flow and exposure to the WWE. Some title reigns just had to be done first and Cage, Angle and Sting had to be given their time to shine.

Though i have to agree, i would have booked Samoa Joe's character differently. But, looking back at it, i can't say that much is lost. WWE would have waited so much longer to put the title on Joe.

So all i am saying is everyone should just build a bridge and get over it. Unless of course TNA goes out of business soon, then yeah, then look back. However TNA is doing well business wise, the booking is good enough and Joe is champion and the MAN in TNA. I am happy. I am willing to forget the past for now and enjoy the reign of Samoa Joe and whatever happens beyond.

 

[SpiralHands]

I think one of the points poeple miss is that when Lesnar and Angle were made champions, WWE was the top dog, the only wrestling company, the biggest wrestling company their belt had been established as THE wrestling belt since the 90's they could have put it on anyone. They choose to put the belt on Angle and Lesnar to make them, they didnt make the belt. TNA when they gave the belt to Angle, they needed to because they arent the only wrestling company the aint the biggest and the belt needed making not the wrestler. If TNAs belt was as credtitable as WWEs was when Angle came then putting it on Joe would have made sense, but face it people it wasnt and they need to make the belt so they needed Angle plain and simple! Get over it!

 

[finoj05]

I think one of the points poeple miss is that when Lesnar and Angle were made champions, WWE was the top dog, the only wrestling company, the biggest wrestling company their belt had been established as THE wrestling belt since the 90's they could have put it on anyone. They choose to put the belt on Angle and Lesnar to make them, they didnt make the belt. TNA when they gave the belt to Angle, they needed to because they arent the only wrestling company the aint the biggest and the belt needed making not the wrestler. If TNAs belt was as credtitable as WWEs was when Angle came then putting it on Joe would have made sense, but face it people it wasnt and they need to make the belt so they needed Angle plain and simple! Get over it!

Exactly. To the casual fan, the belt needs to get over as well.

There is a reason why when the World Heavyweight Championship was brought into WWE in 2002, Jim Ross pushes the belt as being "held by legends such as Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair, Sting" among others. There is a reason why TNA hyped the NWA World Championship as being held by those same people. Belts need to be made prestigious.

Now... TNA can say... "The TNA World Heavyweight Championship was held by Kurt Angle, Sting and now... Samoa Joe"

The WWE however, will never have that problem ever again. Their belts have prestige.

 

[midgensa]

Well this has all been going round and round, but I definitely do not think it was too late. Hell, they could have put this on for another month or two and had him really chasing it before finally getting the emotional victory that puts the strap around his waist.
I think Angle's long title reign was great. I think that the top level of TNA with Sting, Cage, Angle, Joe and Abyss is great and think that they have done the right thing by having Angle bring a lot of credit to their company with a long title reign by one of the best in the business.
Sure some of the booking has been up and down, sure some of the storylines are a little silly ... and sure it is a joke that AJ Styles has not been in the World Title picture for a LONG time ... but they did things right with Joe. He is a VERY believable champion and they worked the angle the correct way to get him his first and what may end up being his most memorable World Championship.

 

[mistasexyboy]

You know what TNA needs to do? They need to do something unpredictably crazy that blind-sights all wrestling fans. Like, imaging out of no where, they sign Brock Lesnar, Goldberg and Lashley at the same time and make them come in as a crazy super faction that takes over TNA and destroys everyone. Imagine how many wrestling and non-wrestling fans would turn to switch over to TNA. That would be crazy and unpredictable!! Probably as monumental as when the n.W.o formed.

 

[Afro-Ameri-Spawn]

Samoa Joe is now TNA World Heavyweight Champion and guess what TNA, it’s about one to two years too late. I mean you now decide to pull the trigger on giving Joe the belt when if you ask me, he is not at his highest in popularity anymore. You put him in a MMA match on a wrestling show trying to get MMA fans to the product which is not going to work as MMA pure fans like real sport and would rather watch figure skating than a Fake Wrestling MMA match. Hell I’m surprise that UFC or any other MMA promotion have turned their back on TNA as this makes MMA look bad, I mean if TNA can fake a MMA match, how do we know that MMA isn’t fake?

Back to Joe, you give him the title know when no one cares. Yeah we as TNA fans are happy he did it, and got the belt finally, but its kind of like an ok he got the belt instead of calling all of your wrestling friends to say Joe got the belt. Then you put the stipulation in the match that made it so easy for every fan to know that he was going to get the belt. TNA continues to do something that will always make them behind the WWE and that knowing will to pull the trigger on giving a guy the belt or dropping a bad angle.

TNA may have been a lot better if they didn’t shit on AJ Styles first 3 reigns as TNA NWA Champion. Then what about when Monty Brown was over as hell, had both the ring presents and mic skills, but didn’t pull the trigger. Christopher Daniels, had the X-Title and was the best heel in the company, but they decided to put him in a tag team with AJ, put paint on his face and then some curry on top of his head.

So TNA congrats on giving Joe the belt when its too late for anyone to really care. As you ad a chance when the man was undefeated, had great matches, was hella over. Then you bring in WWE talent and he went down the ladder. Hell if he took the belt back at a year ago maybe some WWE fans would of changed the channel a bit to see this “Undefeated” Samoa Joe, yet now may WWE fans know him as the guy Kurt beat in his first PPV match I believe. So great job TNA, you will always be the fourth greatest wrestling brand in America, right behind ECW. You better hope Vince doesn’t decide to get Heat back on TV, then your ratings will be done for.

So, if I am reading this right, you wanted Samoa Joe to get the title back when he sucked on the mike and had quick matches? Didn't we already go through this with Goldberg?

If you ask me, they did it the right way. They kept Samoa Joe in the title picture and chasing the belt, which built up the feud between the two men very well. They had Nash come in like mentor's role, on camera, to help given him a sort of "mind games" type of jolt to his personality. All of this, has made Joe more credible, more marketable, and more over as a long time champion.

You can't just slap a belt on a guy and then put him out there like they did with Joe before. He needs credibility. He needs to look hungry. He needs to look like this is the one thing that he will die for. Sure we knew that he wasn't going to quit, even if he lost. But it was built up nicely and done the right way.

I swear, you kids need to learn what deferred is for once and learn that everything doesn't come overnight. I say this. if you were so turned off and pissed off so long ago, then why have you kept watching? Because it aint as bad as you try to make it out to be.

 

[Total Impact]

When the WWE built Austin up there year after his first Rumble win, I think Austin on had one major title shot and it was a Four Corners Match at In Your House Final Four. He spent the whole year not losing title match after tile match, but just trying to get a change at a shot which was a great of booking instead of TNA who kept Joe losing and losing when getting a shot. Joe could be a great champion, but his win is like Triple H’s he should of won the belt when he was read to, but when get the belt it was nothing special, it wasn’t a mark out moment in wrestling, it was just a new champion in company.

Nash as a mentor role was the stupid’s thing they could of ever had done, Joe doesn’t need backup, that is what made him so great in the beginning, he was a loner who just want to kill you and with nash, they just made him look weak and stupid as the guys never even connect well together.

Besides Joe, TNA doesn’t know when to pull the trigger on anything that they do or any other matter, remember their own storylines. Hell they just complete forgot about the Karen-Kurt_ AJ love triangle with no real ending. It was a bad angle, but at least put a real ending to it.

Back to Joe, they may book him right as Champion, but now you have to build him back up, after spending months and years of holding him down. The WWE has always put the title on guys at their peak with the fans, It started with SuperStar Billy Graham, Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Austin, Rock, Angle, Leasnar, Cena. You give the fans what they want know, and TNA never does it, they build talent up and then just completely destroys them and even Angle said that. Remember Angle/Lethal had a classic match with Angle losing clean and then later that night Lethal is made to look like crap by being destroyed by Abyss I think in a run in brawl. Look at Kaz, over with the crowd, I’m not saying give Kazarian the World Title, but push him up in the card, not in a feud with the dumbest gimmick from Dustin’s mind Black Reign. LAX hottest thing they ever came up with, instead giving into Konnan and they depushed the team to nothing right now. TNA never gives the fans what they want right now, they give them what they wanted two years ago. TNA is living too much into past more than the WWE is. At least the WWE is trying to build new talent for the Main Event, what NEW talent is TNA pushing to the main event, Scott Steiner? Booker T, Nash. TNA has to take a risk, they are a small organization that can take a risk as no one is watching to really call them on their mistake like the WWE.

 

[the phenomenon]

I think putting the strap on Joe in 2006 or 2005 would result in a similar situation that AJ Styles was in in late 2006 and most of 2007. After the team of Styles and Daniels broke up there was really nothing left for him to do. He was a three time World Champion, at the time a 3 time Tag Team Champion and a six time X-Division Champion. I remember hearing that they were going to make AJ Styles the face of the X-Division once again but decided against it and turned him heel and we all know what happened. Although now at least he's no longer wrestling goofy and is bringing the intensity to a match that he brought when he was a face.

If Joe was given the belt in 2006 I think it would have killed his character. Because he was still relatively early in his TNA career they had him come close but ultimately fail. He didn't win it in his first 2 title shots made him see human, and relate able. It showed that while he was great, he wasn't perfect. He had to work for his title which despite the reaction to the MMA-style match at Lockdown the build showed that he worked for it, he busted his ass to get there. It's better then the Superman character winning the title because then you become another Goldberg.