Ryder's Popularity Marginalized By Booking?

[MikeyTheAwesome]

To JustinMFNBEEMER. The crowd was DEAD last night, not only throughout his entrance, but a good part of the show. Not THAT big of a reaction to Cena...The contract signing was awkward, the crowd for the most part didn't really care for any joke Punk made. Normally a crowd would chant Punk's name after a good joke like that...

I'm assuming you had the tv on mute when Ryder went for his broski boot on Cena/henry after his first pump. That was one of the few times where the crowd made noise.

 

[JUSTINMFNBEEMER]

To JustinMFNBEEMER. The crowd was DEAD last night, not only throughout his entrance, but a good part of the show. Not THAT big of a reaction to Cena...The contract signing was awkward, the crowd for the most part didn't really care for any joke Punk made. Normally a crowd would chant Punk's name after a good joke like that...

I'm assuming you had the tv on mute when Ryder went for his broski boot on Cena/henry after his first pump. That was one of the few times where the crowd made noise.

just rewatched the parts with ryder, the crowd was dead when he came out, though you are right, they did seem to care a bit when he did go for the boot, i will give that. again, im not against him, im just worried they are gonna force feed ryder down our throats, last night was way to much ryder, raw last night was bad, and i mean BAD, it was all ryder ace cena, the cm punk contract signing was so forced, maybe the crowd wasnt in it. raw needs more talent though to step it up like ryder did, lets just not water him down and make us hate him.

 

[CarlSinclair]

I am not quite sure why you care?

You (and the IWC) wants Ryder to be US champ. It seems likely this is what is happening.

The IWC wants Ziggler in to the main event. This is more than likely happening now too. And most likely a fued with Punk if their match a couple of weeks ago was the tester I think it was. I wouldn't be shocked if he got a shot as soon as Rumble or the PPV before Mania.

I don't see the downside for the IWC. Has it made Ryder less popular? I don't think so.

It may have been dumb, it may have pushed Cena. But we still get what we want so who really cares? It would have been worse if he didn't get it at all.

 

[TM Punk]

COMPLETELY agree with original poster; at the end of the day, Vince McMahon got the big win and the final word against the IWC. It's a damn shame that he can't be man enough to accept when people can build themselves up to something without (or in spite of) VKM. JR has put up with so much VKM's jealousy and bullshit, so I guess I shouldn't have expected Ryder to get out of this cleanly....ugh, soo irritating though.

Maybe that's why Zack was lacking in the energy department last night, IMO. He's not stupid and could probably see that while he was getting the shot he worked for, he was simultaneously getting buried (strong word, I know, but it's the truth) in return.

I agree with you 100%. I'm sure vince mcmahon hate the thousands of dollars in merchandise sales that ryder has been bringing in for him over the past few months. You cannot compare vince and JR's "quarrel" to mcmahons and ryders. For one, there isn't one between mcmahon and ryder. The whole jr thing is that people generally see him as having a bigger and better mind for the wrestling business than vinnie ?ac. And vince's ego says otherwise. But that's another topic for another day.

What last night did was give ryder a babystep that he needed. They aren't pushing him full go yet, they are doing it little by little. If the crowd reacton stays posative, or grows he will get pushed more.

Another thing it did was make johnny ace look like not just a complete asshole, but a smart(ish) complete asshole, which is something his character has needed for a long time since being made a fool out of by cm punk and hhh basically every week he's been on tv. By the way, the morrison burn was awesome.

Now for john cena it was a desperate attempt at a cheap pop. Almost foley like, and that is exactly what it was supposed to be. It shows that yes, the crowd does effect his decision making. It shows that he wants them on his side by jumping on the ryder bandwagon. And if all goes well, I see him turning on ryder EVENTUALLY! What I think they're doing is leaving it up to us. They're essentially letting us write the storyline. If cena keeps doing all the right thing with all of the right people and we get behind him. Then that'll be how it is. If he does these things and we see through it, then he'll turn. Its up to us!!!

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Only the WWE could take something so unique and genuine and crush it with one garbage plot twist.

I was APPALLED at the way Ryder was finally granted his title shot against Ziggler on RAW Monday night. By having Cena beat him, then talk Johnny Ace into giving him a second chance, then interfering to make sure Ryder wins, the WWE completely marginalized Ryder's fan base and his unique momentum. What's worse, they re-directed the momentum to Cena, who they apparently have to push as the most super of all the supermen in history.

That's right, it's not the thousands of people who signed Zack's twitter petition - who cheer for him throughout the entire show, who buy all his stuff on the website - who convinced the brass he needed a shot at the US Title. It wasn't Ryder himself, who has gotten the better of Ziggler recently on several occasions and picked up victories over other superstars during his run.

It was fucking John Cena.

Ryder busts his ass and gets thousands of people behind him with almost no help from the E, but only gets his title shot because John Cena "GIVES" it to him. Ryder can't possibly get a clean win over Cena to earn it himself, he has to get buried by Cena and then have Cena "feel bad" for him and give up his own title shot so that Ryder can get one. Even with the ambiguity of Cena's direction (whether or not he's turning heel), they still try to get him over with the IWC by making him responsible for Ryder's shot.

RIDICULOUS.

Another backhand to the IWC from Vince McMahon - "No matter how many of you get behind this guy or how loud you scream, he's only getting his chance because the corporate machine's front runner handed it to him. He didn't earn it. You didn't help him get it. He got it because MY GUY sacrificed and gave it to him."

lol o wow. you're on of those guys. "another backhand to the IWC". Yea, because Vince gives a shit about you.

I watched Raw with my girlfriend, as I always do. she didn' grow up a fan, only been watching for about a year. She said "god damnit they're going to have Ryder beat Cena, he's not as good. They've established that. If they have Ryder beat Cena, it'll hurt Cena AND Ryder's credibility because everyone sees it". WWE books to people more like my girlfriend, not people like you. It's why they had Cena win a tough match and the only reason Ryder lost was due to inexperience (showboating too much), you forgot to mention that part. Maybe you just don't process emotion or something. Stop thinking inside your own box and look at the big picture.

The booking was fine. Ryder looked strong against Cena, he showed heart against Henry. What's the big deal? If next week on Raw, Ryder isnt' as over, then yea, it was the wrong move. However, if he's just as over, you're wrong. That's how it works. It's not subjective "4/5 on the story" it's "are they over?". This reminds me of when after Punk outsold Cena, and became super over people on here were saying "Vince fucked up Punk just to stick it to the IWC". You guys are fuckin crazy and should pull your head out of your ass.

They didn't give Ryder's momentum to cena. How much of a Ryder mark are you? They were giving ryder the cena rub.

See, WWE is smarter than you. Ryder's fans right now are people who tweet and shit. Adults. So, to get him more over, who should they target? They should target the younger segment. So, how do you get a babyface more over with that segment of your audience? You give him a rub from John Cena. Shit man Lawler even spelled it out on commentary. Are you that dense? Or is it just IWC arrogance?

Funny you said "Ryder busts his ass" because that's exactly what Cena said. Cena spent that whole promo with Ace putting over Ryder.

It's threads like this, full of conspiracy bullshit that makes no fucking sense that makes me go away from the forums for weeks on end. I can't stand this type of shit. It's insanity. If my girlfriend, WHO ONLY STARTED WATCHING A YEAR AGO, can "get" why they do things and you can't....what the fuck dude.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Cena giving up his title shot for Ryder is definitely within his boyscout persona, and amongst the most cheesy things I've ever seen in the WWE.

Not only did in render Zach Ryders petition completely invalid, it ruined any chance of Cena turning heel. Its not gonna happen, why would the guy give up his title shot for someone else (such a babyface move) only to make the fans he won over hate him the next week? Its not building the suspense for a turn, its poor writing at best.

The thing that was most "marginalized" by the booking staff was the idea of Mark Henry as an unbeatable monster. After months of destroying everything in his path he was taken out by an FU. To quote eric cartman, "...the fuck?" The big show can't beat this guy, Daniel Bryan can't hang, but after a boot to the face and falling off Cena's shoulders he's out for the count. Well, on the bright side they didn't imply that Zach Ryder or Mark Henry raped a dead body....

You must not process emotion either. Or anything for that matter. For the past like 2 months, they haven't really been pushing Henry as an unbeatable monster. He is showing weakness. He ran from Sheamus and he got intentionally DQed against Show. Plus he was, as Cole said a thousand fucking times, wounded coming into the match. So it makes sense that he would get beat by a FU.

You guys just grasp for any little thing and explode it. Like I said, objectively, if Ryder is still over, it didn't fail and you are just pissed because WWE didn't book to wins and losses. Instead they booked to a story, which seems to be how the WWE has always done things, and has obviously worked.


What blows my mind here is you guys are acting like Cena is riding Ryder's coattails to get over...that's just like shit-your-pants level ******ation. Cena is a lot more over and ryder is getting the rub.

It also blows my mind that people think Ryder is an IWC darling. He's popular on twitter, everyone and their mom has twitter. Ryder fans aren't people who go to shows and chant "this is wrestling" in fact, most typical IWC morons who count moves and flips shit on Ryder because...he doesn't do a lot of moves and flips. Ryder is a character driven wrestler who sells a lot and is putting his character in the modern context. Pretty much the prototypical WWE superstar.

 

[IWChampion]

I have to agree with the majority here that WWE did what was appropriate. Yea it made John Cena look cheesey but that's his character so it works. It gave Cena something to do and made him look like a hero, Ryder got what he wanted as well as the "IWC", Laurinitis was made to look like more of a heel, and it saved TLC from ending up in another Cena title run(something in there for Cena fans and haters alike). Was it perfect? No. Was it good? I'd like to think so. For one, there are still a lot of people out there that don't like Ryder and feel that he is being forced down their throats and him winning the U.S. title just because his twitter followers say so would upset a large portion of the fan base.

What I didn't like about the whole angle was right after the match when Ryder was upset at Cena for ruining his chance as if Cena was supposed to take a dive for him. It kind of made him seem a little weak IMO. Second what I didn't like was when Cena went to Laurinitis and tried to explain to him that Ryder had busted his ass for a chance and deserved some help. If Cena knew this then why didn't he just implement that knowledge prior to his match with Ryder and not have to give up his own title shot? He came into Laurinitis' office angry and screaming as if it were Johnny Ace that pinned Ryder in the ring.

All in all well done. btw...

...that's just like shit-your-pants level ******ation

lmao

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I have to agree with the majority here that WWE did what was appropriate. Yea it made John Cena look cheesey but that's his character so it works. It gave Cena something to do and made him look like a hero, Ryder got what he wanted as well as the "IWC", Laurinitis was made to look like more of a heel, and it saved TLC from ending up in another Cena title run(something in there for Cena fans and haters alike). Was it perfect? No. Was it good? I'd like to think so. For one, there are still a lot of people out there that don't like Ryder and feel that he is being forced down their throats and him winning the U.S. title just because his twitter followers say so would upset a large portion of the fan base.

What I didn't like about the whole angle was right after the match when Ryder was upset at Cena for ruining his chance as if Cena was supposed to take a dive for him. It kind of made him seem a little weak IMO. Second what I didn't like was when Cena went to Laurinitis and tried to explain to him that Ryder had busted his ass for a chance and deserved some help. If Cena knew this then why didn't he just implement that knowledge prior to his match with Ryder and not have to give up his own title shot? He came into Laurinitis' office angry and screaming as if it were Johnny Ace that pinned Ryder in the ring.

All in all well done. btw...




lmao

I honestly don't even think it was that cheesey. It was a very "boyscout" thing to do. However, I thought it was more believable than the ol "BAH GAWD HE PASSED OUT FROM THE PAIN, WHAT HEART" bullshit. How many times at work has someone covered for someone else so they could go see their girlfriend or something? Not much difference here.

I somewhat agree with you that Ryder acting like cena should have lost on purpose at the end sorta made him look weak, but I think it more showed Ryder's frustration. Cena coming in saying Ryder deserves another chance, I think was, more Cena being really impressed with Ryder in the ring. Like a "I thought he was just a fun guy but he can really go also". Overall, both of these are very minor and only come up when you analyse it in detail, and even then you can make arguments to the contrary.

Anyone else really interested in the development of Ryder/Cena? Eventually Ryder is gonna want to gun for Cena. Could be next month, could be after Wrestlemania, could be a year from now. I think they have the potential to set up a really intersting dynamic.

A lot of people saw what happened as "well damn they aren't going to turn Cena heel". What do you guys mean by "turn him heel"? You mean have him cheat and shit? I don't see that ever happening. The closest thing to a heel turn I see is him saying "you fat virgin pieces of shit couldn't tie my vintage pump up air Jordans, and BTW, a 5 star match and 6 million dollars (or whatever he makes) says I can wrestle". I'm not sure what direction they're going to go with Cena, but I'm interested.

 

[IWChampion]

Cena's heel turn has been talked about for a long time now and I don't see it happening anytime soon. I think Vince is waiting to use it as a "get out of jail free card" and use it as a huge bombshell like when Hogan joined NWO. It would be nice to see him turn heel by turning on Ryder at some point depending on how popular Ryder becomes.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Cena's heel turn has been talked about for a long time now and I don't see it happening anytime soon. I think Vince is waiting to use it as a "get out of jail free card" and use it as a huge bombshell like when Hogan joined NWO. It would be nice to see him turn heel by turning on Ryder at some point depending on how popular Ryder becomes.

The heel turn can't be something easily predicted. Bash at the Beach worked because no one expected it. People (think they) want Cena to turn heel and sort of expect it. If you tease Cena getting annoyed and have Piper slap him and have some tension built with him and Ryder, etc, then he turns heel, it's not a good turn.

I think you have to wait until at least after mania anyways because otherwise you damage Rock vs Cena. It's not the 2 iconic figures. It'd be like having Superman fight Terry Ginnis' Batman instead of Bruce Wayne's Batman. Yea it's still Superman vs Batman, but not really.

What I'm mostly excited about, is that the WWE currently has a pretty damn talented and over midcard. A mix of characters too. Things are looking good. Guys like Ryder are a prime example. He is a full fleshed out character that's in a modern context and he sells well in the ring and everything he does in the ring fits his character. Add all that up and you have a guy who's character people believe in. People believe that if you worked at McDonalds and Ryder came up to the drive through, and you said "would you like to try out buy one McRib and get one free deal?" he would say "WOO WOO WOO....you know it". That's how believable he is as his character because he walks, talks, and wrestles in character. It's that complete character that makes Cody Rhodes more over than Ted Dibiase despite having similar looks and physical ability. That's what creates popularity, not really booking. A character can do anything and people are interested. You could do anything you want with an uninteresting character and it won't matter. You can have a talented guys' charcter cut a promo on a subway sandwich and it gets over.

 

[IWChampion]

I agree that it won't be a good turn unless unpredictable. That's why I don't think it will be anytime soon. I think that what they are doing with him now is to only tease us and show us that no matter what Cena will stand for everything he currently believes in. I think that it will be unexpected and not happen for a long time. Cena's heel turn would be about the equivalent of Hogan's with them being super faces sending positive messages to kids. Vince knows something like that is for emergency only. While they may not need it to fight off TNA, they might use it if WWE starts going too much downhill or if Cena gets to the point where he is stale even to his fans and he gets consistently less reaction.

 

[c-trass]

wwe are using zack ryders popularity to get cena over. its been going on for a while, this is just another cheap way for zack ryder to help cena get popular.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

wwe are using zack ryders popularity to get cena over. its been going on for a while, this is just another cheap way for zack ryder to help cena get popular.

"Using Ryder to help get Cena popular"? What? That doesn't make any sense. Cena is by far more over than Ryder. They are using Cena to make Ryder more visible and make him seem like a bigger deal. What's next, the Angels are going to sign Albert Pujols to give Vernon Well some lineup protection?

How the hell you guys come up with this stuff that defies logic baffles me.

So, forget it's Cena. Let's look at the facts.
You have wrestler C and wrestler R. Wrestler C has consistently been a huge draw and gets loud reactions every night. Wrestler R has recently gotten over big, but his character is such that people aren't sure how much of a serious threat he is. So the WWE pairs the two up and you think that Wrestler R is the one making Wrestler C look better?

Yea, when you take "Cena" out, it makes sense huh? There needs to be a psychological study on some of you, I swear the four letters "C-E-N-A" make some of your IQs drop 70 points and you just spew out that "shit your pants-level ******ation" I was talking about earlier.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I certainly had no problem with the first part of the booking. Lauranitis is a heel general manager and therefore he books two of the top faces on Raw into an uncomfortable position. He does not give a damn about the fans or their petition. Zack has a had fought match against the best wrestler in the world and puts up a very good show but falls short by a whisker. Cena, seeing that injustice was done against Ryder as he ideally should not be facing a main eventer like Cena to earn a US Championship match, gives up what would have been a personal gain. That is what Cena's character is about, giving up personal gain for justice.

But if I had been booking the show, I would have had Ryder win the second match on his own. I would not have booked him against Mark Henry obviously. It's not that the booking that happened does not work as it acts pretty much like an endorsement from Cena but at the same time, it is not my cup of tea. I would have liked to see the WWE add some toughness to Ryder's character here by having him win the second match of the night against a fresh opponent. Still, the original booking works and it has not marginalized Ryder's popularity a bit.

 

[rockyrocky11]

I thought it would've been awesome to do this...

Have Cena demand the rematch and then when they annouce Ryder's last chance his opponent..drumroll please...John Cena again!

Have Cena turn heel via Ryder. I know they prob will never turn him heel but it would've been more interesting. I think they could have also built up a heel turn by having Ryder lose to Henry, making Cena upset that he gave up his shot for now reason.

May not be the best ideas but still better than the way it was booked.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I thought it would've been awesome to do this...

Have Cena demand the rematch and then when they annouce Ryder's last chance his opponent..drumroll please...John Cena again!

Have Cena turn heel via Ryder. I know they prob will never turn him heel but it would've been more interesting. I think they could have also built up a heel turn by having Ryder lose to Henry, making Cena upset that he gave up his shot for now reason.

May not be the best ideas but still better than the way it was booked.

No, that's not better than the way they booked. You turn Cena heel because....you want to I guess. The crowd sort of expects it, which tells you it's a bad time to do so, just a piss poor time to do it. Second, what does your idea accomplish? Nothing at all. What they did gave Ryder the rub because the section of the audience Ryder isn't as over with is the kids.

It's simple marketing. Ryder is over with "A" audience members. Cena is over with "B" audience members. To get Ryder more over, you don't make him more popular to the "A" people, you make him more popular with the "B" people. It's what they did with Punk and it worked.