Rumor: Plans for Orton, Cena & Bryan

[MrMojoRisin]

I'd be fine with that but I'd do it a little differently. I'd have Bryan beat Cena clean, then as Bryan is holding up the belt and running around the ring screaming "YES" while the crowd goes crazy, Orton sneaks through the crowd or from under the ring, comes up behind Bryan, hits the RKO then cashes in the briefcase. As Bryan is starting to get up, have Orton hit the punt on Bryan then pin him to steal the title. He would be booed out of the arena which is exactly what WWE would want to turn him.

I like where you're going, but I think it's crucial to future booking that you have Bryan get some offense in.

The payoff is ruining Bryan's big moment, but it makes Bryan look weak to lay down without a fight... especially since you don't leave him hurt or anything after he makes Cena tap. Letting him get some offense in before Orton pins him puts a seed of doubt into the crowd while it's happening (oh my god, is he actually going to pull this off), and it also cements Bryan's strong challenger status going forward (he almost had him after that big fight with Cena. There's no way that Orton can beat him if he's fresh).

I like the idea of using the punt to put the finishing touches on the heel turn, but I wouldn't have Orton win with a punt. I still like doing a ref bump and then some foreign object/interference deal for Orton to get the win. I'd use the punt AFTER Orton has already won... simply because there wouldn't be any need for him to use it at that point other than to be a complete dick. If he wins with the punt, then there's some justification that he simply felt that he needed to go there in order to win, so it's not a completely heelish thing. Doing it after winning, when there's no other reason to use the punt... is absolutely 100% heelish and can't be viewed any other way.

Of course, after brainstorming all of this.. we do realize we're going to be completely let down by what they actually decide to do.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

I still think that, after Bryan wins, Orton should try and fail to cash-in, with Bryan rolling him up for the pin. Then Orton can snap and beat the crap out of Bryan.

I know why WWE wants Orton to successfully cash-in. He basically steals the title from the most beloved underdog the WWE's had in years. It would get him some good heel heat and get Bryan a ton of sympathy, especially after beating Cena clean.

But my problem with Orton's cash-in being successful is that... Well, what happens then? Do you give Orton a decent title run? Do you put the title back on Bryan in a month or two? And what about the likes of RVD and CM Punk? They need to give RVD a title feud to make his short-term stay worthwile, and it's only a matter of time before Punk gets his tattooed hands on the title again.

A successful Orton cash-in kinda messes up the title picture, in my opinion, I think it would cause Bryan to lose the momentum he has now. So keep the title on Bryan, make Orton lose his cash-in, give them a two or three PPV feud that Bryan wins, to make him credible as a champion. Then put him up against RVD and then Punk, when he's done with Lesnar and Heyman.

That would be 3 feuds in a row that are guaranteed to deliver. When's the last time the WWE title had that kind of consistency? Even Punk only ever had 2 great feuds in a row during his 434 days.

I disagree completely because Orton cashing in on Bryan doesn't cause him to lose his momentum... it only adds to it.

If they build this right, then Bryan beating Cena clean should be one of the all time great feel good moments. Taking that all away from Bryan immediately with something like a MITB cash in would put more sympathy on Bryan than he's ever had, which is exactly what you want for a baby face.

Fans would be absolutely begging for Bryan to come back and beat Orton, and you could get some very good momentum out of that. Hold off the ultimate payoff of Bryan beating Orton for the belt for a few months, and by the time he actually gets it... boom. You have the guy made and as over as he'll ever be.

The only way you lose momentum for Bryan in this scenario... is if after Orton wins, you throw someone else into the title picture right away and push Bryan aside. No way they do that unless they actually like the feeling of shooting their own feet.

Think about it like this. Remember when Foley beat the Rock for the title on RAW? Remember what a huge feel good moment that win was? Now what if they had a MITB back then, and right while Foley's giving his "yo Adrian" speech in the ring, the MITB winner (say Shamrock) sneaks into the ring, hits Foley in the back of the head with a chair, puts the ankle lock on him and makes him tap to win the belt. How outraged would you have been, and how much would you want to see Foley get revenge? You would have had such a hot angle to work with after that, and guaranteed record buys for the next PPV when Foley would have been getting his rematch, because all the fans who got invested in that moment along with Foley would have also felt his loss, and there would have been nothing they wanted to see more than Foley avenge it and regain the title.

They've got the opportunity here to do something very special. Hopefully... they don't blow it.

 

[Dagger Dias]

So Daniel Bryan is supposedly going to defeat John Cena in the main event of Summerslam only to lose the title immediately to Randy Orton via a red briefcase cash-in to close the show? I would love to see that happen and personally think it is a fantastic idea. WWE really need to keep those plans in place. Orton has needed to turn heel for a long time. This should get us that heel turn as well as a lengthy WWE Championship reign. Remember the Age of Orton reign he had in 2007-2008? It lasted that whole schoolyear, as should this one.

I'd have Randy Orton remain WWE Champion all the way until Wrestlemania. Let him show his sinister heel persona again onscreen for the first time in 3 years. Daniel Bryan could work a long feud with him in the fall months. If Christian got a feud of the year out of Randy Orton 2 years ago, imagine what Bryan could get out of him! Orton of course would win the feud and somehow retain each time. They move on to new feuds while Bryan has been gaining fan support, then he wins either the Royal Rumble or the Elimination Chamber to finally dethrone Orton and get his revenge at Wrestlemania 30. This would be the start of a reign for Bryan that lasts as long, if not longer, than Punk's 400+ day one. Do I think all of that will ultimately happen? Not really, but a fan can dream. I do expect WWE to have Orton turn heel by cashing in on the winner of the Cena VS Bryan match though. He wants the title and this is a great way to turn him heel. WWE has a good opportunity to accomplish several things at once here if they use it to build Bryan up even more as well.

 

[Sid Schmid]

How about this for a scenario?

Bryan is celebrating in the ring and the Shield come out and decimate him. Orton then comes out, punts him for good measure and pins him.

I'm not saying have Orton join the shield but they have attacked people for money in the past when they did Heyman and Punks dirty work. That would in my opinion solidify a heel turn.

 

[Blade]

I disagree completely because Orton cashing in on Bryan doesn't cause him to lose his momentum... it only adds to it.

If they build this right, then Bryan beating Cena clean should be one of the all time great feel good moments. Taking that all away from Bryan immediately with something like a MITB cash in would put more sympathy on Bryan than he's ever had, which is exactly what you want for a baby face.

Fans would be absolutely begging for Bryan to come back and beat Orton, and you could get some very good momentum out of that. Hold off the ultimate payoff of Bryan beating Orton for the belt for a few months, and by the time he actually gets it... boom. You have the guy made and as over as he'll ever be.

The only way you lose momentum for Bryan in this scenario... is if after Orton wins, you throw someone else into the title picture right away and push Bryan aside. No way they do that unless they actually like the feeling of shooting their own feet.

Think about it like this. Remember when Foley beat the Rock for the title on RAW? Remember what a huge feel good moment that win was? Now what if they had a MITB back then, and right while Foley's giving his "yo Adrian" speech in the ring, the MITB winner (say Shamrock) sneaks into the ring, hits Foley in the back of the head with a chair, puts the ankle lock on him and makes him tap to win the belt. How outraged would you have been, and how much would you want to see Foley get revenge? You would have had such a hot angle to work with after that, and guaranteed record buys for the next PPV when Foley would have been getting his rematch, because all the fans who got invested in that moment along with Foley would have also felt his loss, and there would have been nothing they wanted to see more than Foley avenge it and regain the title.

They've got the opportunity here to do something very special. Hopefully... they don't blow it.

My problem isn't the cash-in itself, I said that in my original post, it's the aftermath that I have a problem with.

Daniel Bryan winning the title from Cena will be a wonderful feel-good moment. If he loses the title a minute later, feuds with Orton and wins the title back a couple months later, that'll be another feel good moment. But it won't be anywhere near as good as the title win at Summerslam, so why make the second, lesser feel-good moment the one that leads to Bryan's real title run?

Bryan is at where CM Punk was two years ago. Punk was the hottest thing going in wrestling. He won the title from Cena (twice), got cashed-in on by Del Rio, then eventually won the title back.

Now let me ask you, which of Punk's WWE title wins was the more epic moment, his win(s) against Cena, or his win against Del Rio? Of course, it's a no contest. Somewhere between defeating Cena twice in a row and winning the title from Del Rio, Punk lost a lot of momentum. He was still over as hell, but it just didn't feel quite the same when he beat Del Rio. Which is what I fear for Bryan should Orton successfully cash-in.

Now, I know Punk's momentum was kinda screwed up by Triple H and Kevin Nash, but who's to say Bryan's momentum won't get screwed up? If they can make Punk lose momentum just two months after that promo, then it can certainly happen to Bryan.

Let Bryan have his win without Orton cashing in. Make that the feel good moment, the real feel good moment. Let him have a good title run without Orton's cash-in. Don't give him a diluted feel good moment three months down the road, because it just won't be as big a deal, simple as that.

 

[BillAlfonsos_Whistle]

I understand and agree with this proposed scenario. It would turn Orton back into a credible heel overnight.


That being said...just once I'd like to see the WWE have the balls to let one of their top guys work two matches again (ala WM10). I'm not neccesarily saying this for the Orton/Cena/Bryan scenario but the names certainly work. Let the WHC headline an event for once and toss the WWE title in as the opening/early match. Have an epic one on one between say Cena and Bryan after which Orton cuts a promo backstage calling out the winner. Giving them fair warning of the cash in at the end of the PPV.

Orton vs. a hobbled winner. Maybe have Bryan injured by the STFU? Some kind of weakkness. Then either Bryan cements his legend by defeating Orton at half-strength or Orton takes the belt legitimately. Works either way really.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

My problem isn't the cash-in itself, I said that in my original post, it's the aftermath that I have a problem with.

Daniel Bryan winning the title from Cena will be a wonderful feel-good moment. If he loses the title a minute later, feuds with Orton and wins the title back a couple months later, that'll be another feel good moment. But it won't be anywhere near as good as the title win at Summerslam, so why make the second, lesser feel-good moment the one that leads to Bryan's real title run?

Bryan is at where CM Punk was two years ago. Punk was the hottest thing going in wrestling. He won the title from Cena (twice), got cashed-in on by Del Rio, then eventually won the title back.

Now let me ask you, which of Punk's WWE title wins was the more epic moment, his win(s) against Cena, or his win against Del Rio? Of course, it's a no contest. Somewhere between defeating Cena twice in a row and winning the title from Del Rio, Punk lost a lot of momentum. He was still over as hell, but it just didn't feel quite the same when he beat Del Rio. Which is what I fear for Bryan should Orton successfully cash-in.

Now, I know Punk's momentum was kinda screwed up by Triple H and Kevin Nash, but who's to say Bryan's momentum won't get screwed up? If they can make Punk lose momentum just two months after that promo, then it can certainly happen to Bryan.

Let Bryan have his win without Orton cashing in. Make that the feel good moment, the real feel good moment. Let him have a good title run without Orton's cash-in. Don't give him a diluted feel good moment three months down the road, because it just won't be as big a deal, simple as that.

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree that you can't make Bryan's second win as special. I'd liken it more to a girl that you're really into. What's more special? The first time you kiss... or the first time you have sex? The first kiss is special. The first time you have sex... is magical. Beating Cena and losing on the cash in is the first kiss. It wets the appetite for more action.

The Punk example doesn't really fit, because the circumstances are different. Plus like you said, they botched so much of that after Punk got his first win. Who's to say that they don't botch it all again? Unfortunately no one. We'd just have to hope that they don't.

The aftermath I'd book like this.

- Bryan's immediately hot to get his rematch, and gets it for the next PPV. He has Orton beat, but some form of outside interference saves Orton's title. This'll set up for the next PPV where Bryan isn't fighting Orton, but has to take on the guy that interfered to get another title shot (I don't have anyone in mind, so let's just say Big E Langston - that name can be swapped for anyone)
- Orton in the meanwhile takes on Cena at the next one, and not only goes over Cena, but punts him in the end and puts him on the shelf. This does two things. Gives Cena's face a rest (it'll help him immensely to go away for a while), and makes Orton stronger which is key to really put Bryan over
- Bryan's back in the title picture and he keeps coming close over the next little while, but Orton keeps managing to save the title through whatever means. The match quality each time is high end like the Steamboat/Flair series years back - even assign Steamboat to be the agent for the match to help them lay it all out properly
- Finally, at say the Rumble (or Survivor Series), you give Bryan the one last shot (say title versus career or something tangible for Bryan to lose as well), and that's when Bryan finally goes over clean. You'll have built up the anticipation to a fevered pitch, and with Bryan finally getting the big one, the fans will be totally invested

Of course, during all this, Bryan/Orton HAS to be booked as the #1 angle and all others are secondary. The payoff to everything is making Bryan a star (which the WWE desperately needs). Orton is just the transitional champ being used to make Bryan a star. Then you get your real payoff, and real moment for the fans if it's all done properly.

I just think that if you don't snatch that moment from Bryan right away, that you:

A) Don't get Orton over as a heel as much as you possibly can
B) Don't get Bryan over as a top guy as much as you possibly can

I could be completely wrong, but that's just how I see it.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

I think DB beating Cena at Summer Slam only to fall victim to Orton moments later does 2 important things:

1. Gets Orton over as a MAJOR heel. He will have just stolen DB's biggest moment of his career, and the IWC's biggest moment of their lives.

2. It gets DB even more over. Everyone will feel "sorry" for him for getting "robbed" and he'll have that sympathy pop. He's already over with the IWC and many others now too so imagine the ultimate underdog being even more of an underdog?

THAT is what WWE is shooting for.

If you let DB win the belt and SS and have no Orton cash in, many are happy but then how do you get Orton over as a heel? If you have him challenge DB the next night on RAW, or cash in the case, he won't get as much heel heat because he'd be just another guy cashing in the case.

I know many of you don't want DB to have his moment "spoiled" but trust me, beating Cena and getting robbed by Orton is the best possible scenario for DB

 

[jon]

DB winning the title and losing to Orton who cashes in right afterwards would make him look bad and weak, especially when he lost the WHC to Sheamus in seconds at WM.

They could continue with the "weak link" by Orton pointing this out.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

My only problem with Danyel Bryan win is that I cant see Cena tapping. Not in Summerslam or ever. Only way I can see him lose is in some gimmcik match or after some interference. Cant see anybody to interfere(except for Orton offcourse but not logical for him to RKO Cena and that Bryan wins by that because it would kill momentum for both). So I think it that Cena would win here and that this scenario will happen on next PPV in some gimmick match...

 

[jon]

Can anyone actually see Cena losing clean to Bryan? I sure can't and don't.

When is the last time Cena lost clean to anyone?

 

[Mac Attack]

My personal take on the scenario is that it befits all parties involved. Cena might actually (gulp) get over with the fans a bit better if he loses to a favorite totally clean. Bryan will gain more fans and face reaction from being "robbed" and Orton becomes heel easily. Quite literally nobody loses and then we're destined for a Triple Threat at NOC which will probably steal the show. Everyone benefits from this scenario.

Can anyone actually see Cena losing clean to Bryan? I sure can't and don't.

When is the last time Cena lost clean to anyone?

I can actually see John Cene losing and last clean loss was against the Shield and before that, Tensai, and then the Rock. It's rare but it does happen clean occasionally. I even think I'm forgetting one loss in there.

Edit: oh and also CM punk who is basically the same as Daniel Bryan right now.

 

[kadroan]

My only problem with Danyel Bryan win is that I cant see Cena tapping. Not in Summerslam or ever. Only way I can see him lose is in some gimmcik match or after some interference. Cant see anybody to interfere(except for Orton offcourse but not logical for him to RKO Cena and that Bryan wins by that because it would kill momentum for both). So I think it that Cena would win here and that this scenario will happen on next PPV in some gimmick match...

I could see him losing the match with interference after being distracted ringside by The Bella Twins having a cat fight over their boyfriends and Bryan rolls up for the win.

I can't see Orton cashing in at Summerslam, way too predictable.

 

[Dr Bill Jacobs]

After watching Raw tonight I think Bryan will beat Cena cleanly. After the celebration, Ortons muisc hits, ( with the reaction Bryan has been getting latey, Orton will get booed outta the building.) they go at it for a few minutes, Orton goes for the RKO, only for Bryan to reverse it into the Yes Lock. Orton taps out. The celebration starts right back up, Orton hit Bryan from behind with the breifcase, maybe RKOs him on to it, then hits the punt kick. We get the Orton turn and Bryan stays Champion. It would be a start to a really good fued between the two.

 

[zones.]

i only read the first page, so this might be suggested already.. sorry if so. but if i was creative then id have it basically just as is speculated. but there wouldnt be a post-match run in by orton. no music signaling 'it' is coming, or anything like that. orton told cena he wouldnt know at all when the cash in was coming, so have orton walk to the ring as if he is just watching the match, have him TRY to interfere on bryans behalf more than once so it seems that he is strictly playing head games with cena. the attempts would help to not make bryan look weak as opposed to hitting an rko on cena while the ref is down or whatever you may think you see coming. they would also help lul the crowd a bit so that they wouldnt expect orton to stalk bryan after the match. i say have bryan take an ass beating and basically be barely able to stand. kick out of an AA and somehow strap in the no lock for the win. have him stumbling around and fall with his back to orton. orton creeps into the ring as bryan turns to put his hands on the mat to try to lift himself up... perfect position to get ur head punted off out of nowhere.


orton wouldnt even have to cash in at that moment... again, he said it wouldnt be seen coming. have him punt bryans face in and tease handing over the case, then have him instead hit an RKO and leave. heel turn complete, everyone will still be pissed over ortons actions, and we still are left guessing when he will cash in.


personally, i want to see a cash in that we havnt seen yet. its always the same, and the element of surprise isnt nearly as surprising anymore. id like to see something like the above play out, and then orton and bryan put in a tag match on the same team but BEFORE the opponents make there way out, orton takes bryan out and cashes in.
i think that would be more surprising personally, and if you have orton basically 'win' against bryan twice while still being able to make bryan appear strong between the two beatings then the high and low side of that scale would be epic.

 

[The Perfect Max]

I think it is simple. Daniel Bryan will win at SummerSlam, defeating John Cena and in the process winning the WWE Championship. Undoubtedly, the LA crowd will pop like mad. Having Randy Orton cash in straight after would garner much heat, but I don't think Daniel Bryan deserves that sort of screwing. For a feud, it would be great, but he really does deserve one night. Plus it gets the fans interested in watching the following episode of Raw.

On that episode of Raw, I wouldn't be surprised if John Cena invokes his rematch clause. In that match, he will lose and Bryan will be on top again. I fully expect Randy Orton to cash in. There are two issues I have here. Firstly, while Orton cashing in on Bryan would garner much heat, I wouldn't be surprised if some actually cheer this, hindering his heel turn. When he hit the punt at Extreme Rules, the crowd went crazy. The fans want a heel Orton, and while Bryan is so over right now, I am scared that this will be lost in a feud with Orton. Secondly, as an above post said, CM Punk was in the same place. He beat John Cena twice, then had to beat Alberto Del Rio. Slight difference and momentum was lost temporarily. Having said that, if Randy Orton can built right as a great heel, I don't mind it if Bryan has to chase it. An idea! Have Orton feud with Bryan from Night of Champions until Survivor Series / TLC time. Keep Orton as the WWE Champion, have Daniel Bryan win the Royal Rumble and win the title back at WrestleMania XXX. Only way I can see Daniel Bryan's momentum returning.

Anyway... an Orton turn is much needed. Give it to him. Keep the title on him until WrestleMania XXX. There I would have Daniel Bryan capture the WWE Championship once more. That is a good moment for everybody.

 

[Wald]

Lots of these scenarios wouldn't transition easily into a 3-way feud over the title though. Bryan defeating Cena only to lose to Orton cashing in sets up a Bryan vs Orton feud, Cena would be the odd man out. People also seem divided about Bryan losing the belt so quick.

So how about this for a way to turn Orton heel and set up the 3 way feud with Bryan as the defending champion.

Bryan and Cena go for 20+ minutes, perhaps even 30 minutes, so that when Bryan beats Cena he comes across as legitimately out of energy. Given the nature of his character he would need a long match to get this across effectively. So Bryan wins, gets his feel good moment and the is now the WWE Champion but is also flat on the ground exhausted.

Orton's music hits, he walks to the ring with the briefcase and cashes it in. Bryan struggles to make his feet and Orton sets up the punt. But before Orton can hit it Cena slides back in the ring from the outside and hits Orton with his finisher. This causes the DQ so Orton wins but Bryan keeps the title heading out of Summerslam.

This sets up Orton as a cowardly heel who was looking to hurt Bryan. It also allows him to want to gain revenge on Cena for taking his shot and briefcase away from him.

It sets up Cena as the hero and all around man of justice that he is always portrayed as. It also gives him a feud with Orton whilst keeping him in the title hunt with Bryan.

Bryan then leaves the PPV as the Champion with a great win under his belt and also a reason to go after Orton. he remains the underdog champion as he now has to defend it against both Cena & Orton.

 

[DetectiveZelix]

Its a shame everyones saying the same thing here. I'm hoping Orton doesnt cash in after/if Bryan wins. I kind of hope Bryan loses due to Kane interfering and then leaves giving Cena the win then Orton comes in and cashes on Cena. Beats him then they can go on to have a four way fued

 

[tgmiveld]

Vinny Mac needs to give Orton the best, restore cred to it and then maybe the business will be taken seriously again.

Cena's friverlous promos and idiotsyncricies have plaged WWE

 

[Loveless]

Given that Orton cashing in on Bryan is absolutely the right thing to do and entirely predictable, there's a good chance that it probably won't happen, which is kind of a shame. The stage is set for a big moment at the big show but instinct tells me Cena will win and instead we wont get the title change for another month.

 

[kris8524]

What would be really great would be if the killed 3 birds with one case. Have cena tap out go to congrad DB but AA to a thunderous amount of Boos. Orton come running down as cena just stares at him and lets him by and then boom the punt and cash in 2 instant heels a DB win and it could set up CM and DB vs RKO and Cena even lead to some sort of survivor series setup.

 

[Blade]

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree that you can't make Bryan's second win as special. I'd liken it more to a girl that you're really into. What's more special? The first time you kiss... or the first time you have sex? The first kiss is special. The first time you have sex... is magical. Beating Cena and losing on the cash in is the first kiss. It wets the appetite for more action.

Sorry for the late reply, this debate lost momentum before it really got going.

Secondly, I can't tell if you're being overly optimistic or if I'm overly pessimistic.

Thirdly, can you really compare beating Cena to a first kiss? Beating Cena clean on a live WWE Pay Per View is pretty much the be all end all of making it to the top of the WWE. Only an elite group of superstars have managed it. The Rock, CM Punk, Randy Orton back when he was the number two guy. And the fans are aware of what a big deal it is.

Bryan and Orton, meanwhile, would be a great feud, but the win wouldn't be as special, especially since Bryan has beaten Orton recently.

Call me crazy, I see Bryan beating the WWE's top star clean for the WWE's top belt live on the second biggest PPV of the year as a more special moment than getting revenge on a dastardly heel that you beat already on some secondary PPV.

The Punk example doesn't really fit, because the circumstances are different. Plus like you said, they botched so much of that after Punk got his first win. Who's to say that they don't botch it all again? Unfortunately no one. We'd just have to hope that they don't.

Except Bryan is exactly where Punk was at this time in 2011. Let's look at the sequence of events:

First Punk wins a number 1 contender match. A week later, he delivers the promo that makes him red hot. At Money in the Bank, he takes the title (somewhat) cleanly in front of a loving home town crowd. He leaves with the title.

Here's where things start to go downhill for Punk. He returns with title, and rematch with Cena is made for Summerslam. Punk wins again, but moments later, he's attacked by Kevin Nash and Del Rio cashes in to take the title.

Punk ends up in some bullshit feud with Triple H and Kevin Nash, and he can never quite capture the same buzz he had a few months previously.

If Punk hadn't been booked to lose the WWE title that night to Del Rio, we could've had one or two more months of Punk vs Cena, which would've kept Punk red-hot as it was still entertaining as hell. Then Punk could've moved on to the feuds with Jericho and Del Rio without Triple H beating him cleanly and damaging his momentum between title reigns.

That is why I'm unsure about Orton cashing in on Bryan as soon as he's won the title.

The aftermath I'd book like this.

- Bryan's immediately hot to get his rematch, and gets it for the next PPV. He has Orton beat, but some form of outside interference saves Orton's title. This'll set up for the next PPV where Bryan isn't fighting Orton, but has to take on the guy that interfered to get another title shot (I don't have anyone in mind, so let's just say Big E Langston - that name can be swapped for anyone)
- Orton in the meanwhile takes on Cena at the next one, and not only goes over Cena, but punts him in the end and puts him on the shelf. This does two things. Gives Cena's face a rest (it'll help him immensely to go away for a while), and makes Orton stronger which is key to really put Bryan over
- Bryan's back in the title picture and he keeps coming close over the next little while, but Orton keeps managing to save the title through whatever means. The match quality each time is high end like the Steamboat/Flair series years back - even assign Steamboat to be the agent for the match to help them lay it all out properly
- Finally, at say the Rumble (or Survivor Series), you give Bryan the one last shot (say title versus career or something tangible for Bryan to lose as well), and that's when Bryan finally goes over clean. You'll have built up the anticipation to a fevered pitch, and with Bryan finally getting the big one, the fans will be totally invested

The way you want to see Bryan booked is pretty similar to how Punk was booked when he was hot. Except, at least Punk's non-title feud was against Triple H, someone who was over. A feud between Bryan and someone like Langston would do absolutely nothing for Bryan and, indeed, would likely kill his momentum.

What happened to a face just winning a title when they deserved to win the title without having to chase it for months on end? Hogan, Savage, The Rock, Austin, Punk, Cena, Batista. None of them had month after month of failed WWE title shots when they first became main eventers.

I mean, I don't know about you, but I was totally bored of Jeff Hardy losing month after month, even though I knew he'd win it eventually. When he finally did win, I went "Finally!" but not in a good way.

I just think that if you don't snatch that moment from Bryan right away, that you:

A) Don't get Orton over as a heel as much as you possibly can
B) Don't get Bryan over as a top guy as much as you possibly can

I could be completely wrong, but that's just how I see it.

I think you can get Orton and Bryan as over as possible without destroying Bryan's moment.

I stick by my suggestion. Have Bryan win clean, have Orton try to cash-in and fail either at Summerslam or on Raw, then have him viciously attack Bryan out of humiliation, thus cementing his heel turn.

Keep Bryan off TV for a week or two as Orton heels it up. He punts Cena the week after attacking Bryan. Maybe have an authority figure say Bryan may need to be stripped of the title due to his injuries.

Then, two weeks before the PPV, we get Orton vs Punk. The match ends in DQ when Heyman interferes. Orton is about to punt Punk, until Bryan's music hits to a huge pop. He attacks Orton, they brawl for a while, the match is made for Night of Champions, where Bryan wins.

Bryan looks both sympathetic and gets to do the badass return thing, Orton gets heat for destroying every face in his path, and they put on a classic at Night of Champions, everyone goes home happy.

Rant over.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Something tells me we're better off agreeing to disagree here.

Sorry for the late reply, this debate lost momentum before it really got going.

Secondly, I can't tell if you're being overly optimistic or if I'm overly pessimistic.

No worries... and I'm sure it's a little of both

Thirdly, can you really compare beating Cena to a first kiss? Beating Cena clean on a live WWE Pay Per View is pretty much the be all end all of making it to the top of the WWE. Only an elite group of superstars have managed it. The Rock, CM Punk, Randy Orton back when he was the number two guy. And the fans are aware of what a big deal it is.

I think you're missing the analogy. Beating Cena clean on PPV is great because like you said, it is something a select few have done. But it's just the tease... especially if he gets a taste of the title, but doesn't walk away from it. When he finally wins it for good, that's when his dick gets wet.

Bryan and Orton, meanwhile, would be a great feud, but the win wouldn't be as special, especially since Bryan has beaten Orton recently.

Depends entirely how you build it.

Call me crazy, I see Bryan beating the WWE's top star clean for the WWE's top belt live on the second biggest PPV of the year as a more special moment than getting revenge on a dastardly heel that you beat already on some secondary PPV.

It is a special moment. That's why you put the screws to him with Orton winning a cash in. It wrecks that special moment, and gets the babyface (Bryan) so much sympathy that they'll be dying to relive it properly.

I'm also not calling for a win on some secondary PPV. Notice I said earlier, Survivor Series or the Rumble. This is a long term program.

Except Bryan is exactly where Punk was at this time in 2011. Let's look at the sequence of events:

First Punk wins a number 1 contender match. A week later, he delivers the promo that makes him red hot. At Money in the Bank, he takes the title (somewhat) cleanly in front of a loving home town crowd. He leaves with the title.

Here's where things start to go downhill for Punk. He returns with title, and rematch with Cena is made for Summerslam. Punk wins again, but moments later, he's attacked by Kevin Nash and Del Rio cashes in to take the title.

Punk ends up in some bullshit feud with Triple H and Kevin Nash, and he can never quite capture the same buzz he had a few months previously.

If Punk hadn't been booked to lose the WWE title that night to Del Rio, we could've had one or two more months of Punk vs Cena, which would've kept Punk red-hot as it was still entertaining as hell. Then Punk could've moved on to the feuds with Jericho and Del Rio without Triple H beating him cleanly and damaging his momentum between title reigns.

That is why I'm unsure about Orton cashing in on Bryan as soon as he's won the title.

I see your hesitation. You're scared that the WWE will mess it up again if they don't go for it right away. Fair point, but I'm just doing some fantasy booking here, and in my scenario... we're not messing it up

The way you want to see Bryan booked is pretty similar to how Punk was booked when he was hot. Except, at least Punk's non-title feud was against Triple H, someone who was over. A feud between Bryan and someone like Langston would do absolutely nothing for Bryan and, indeed, would likely kill his momentum.

I think you missed where I just threw in Langston as a name (honestly when I was typing that, he just happened to be the first one I thought of).

The little break that you'd give Bryan (which is more about giving Orton time to take out Cena for a while), would be against someone who'd become attached to Orton... so as that it would be an extension of that feud. Not a momentum killer, and the added benefit of pushing someone else up the card a little.

It's more about removing Cena for a while (his face needs a break from the audience badly)... and putting Orton over more as a mega-heel (punting Cena out of the WWE for a while would do that). The bigger you can build Orton... the better the payoff when Bryan beats him. Beating Orton as is right now? Who cares. It's not special. Build Orton up... and it becomes a bigger deal.

What happened to a face just winning a title when they deserved to win the title without having to chase it for months on end? Hogan, Savage, The Rock, Austin, Punk, Cena, Batista. None of them had month after month of failed WWE title shots when they first became main eventers.

Bryan's not like those guys. But I do think that Bryan, in a long term chase for the belt could draw a lot of money.

I mean, I don't know about you, but I was totally bored of Jeff Hardy losing month after month, even though I knew he'd win it eventually. When he finally did win, I went "Finally!" but not in a good way.

I wasn't watching when Hardy was at the top... but I personally never thought Hardy's ever come across as that sympathetic of a babyface. The most I could ever feel for him was that he'd break his neck with some of his moves... but that's self inflicted. I also always saw him more as a tag team guy... even though he hasn't been in years. Maybe because he never really updated his look from what it was when he was a tag team guy?

I think you can get Orton and Bryan as over as possible without destroying Bryan's moment.

You can get him over for sure. I just disagree that you can as much.

I stick by my suggestion. Have Bryan win clean, have Orton try to cash-in and fail either at Summerslam or on Raw, then have him viciously attack Bryan out of humiliation, thus cementing his heel turn.

Keep Bryan off TV for a week or two as Orton heels it up. He punts Cena the week after attacking Bryan. Maybe have an authority figure say Bryan may need to be stripped of the title due to his injuries.

Then, two weeks before the PPV, we get Orton vs Punk. The match ends in DQ when Heyman interferes. Orton is about to punt Punk, until Bryan's music hits to a huge pop. He attacks Orton, they brawl for a while, the match is made for Night of Champions, where Bryan wins.

Bryan looks both sympathetic and gets to do the badass return thing, Orton gets heat for destroying every face in his path, and they put on a classic at Night of Champions, everyone goes home happy.

Rant over.

The big problem I have with that... is that if Orton can't beat a weakened Bryan... how should I ever suspect that he can beat him when he's fresh? Orton comes across as a dick in your scenario sure... but not very strong, and in the end you have Bryan beating a champ that isn't very strong... which in turn doesn't make Bryan look as strong either.

Plus in the course of a month, you've got Bryan being stripped of the title for injuries, AND coming back from those injuries to win? You've got Orton unable to really beat anyone... just sneak attack people instead.

Also, the whole thing is over in a month, so where do you go next? Orton will get a rematch, but he couldn't beat Bryan after a long, grueling match, and he couldn't beat Bryan after the guy was so banged up he had to be stripped of the title. Why would I buy him as a credible challenger after that?

 

[BigThunder]

My scenario. At Summerslam, after a long epic bout, Bryan beats Cena, and both men are exhausted. At this point, the Shield comes down, starts beating on both men, and when they're both thoroughly beaten, Orton comes down, gives Ambrose a friendly slap. While the Shield holds Cena and forces him to watch, Orton gives Bryan multiple RKOs on a steel chair, and even though it's clear Daniel can't defend himself, Orton finishes it with the punt and the pin.

Orton then feuds with Cena (and the Shield) after SummerSlam, with Bryan making his return at Over the Limit, leading to a triple threat Hell in a Cell at Hell in a Cell.

 

[DetectiveZelix]

I hope Orton doesnt cash in so all of you will cry and say WWE ruined your Pay Per View. and the other half will say WWE changed their plans or whatever when none of you even know what their real plans were