Ring of Honor: Declining?

[RVDgurl]

I've really had enough of this... LetEmKnow, for your sake on this forum, I'd really just bow out of this now. The fact is that I'm not even that aware of ROH at current time, and yet I can tell you that X is right. However, instead of actually continuing your argument, you've taken the argument so far off track, it really has stopped becoming funny.

AGREED! I was going to just let X continue to tear this guy apart, but since you threw in your 2 cents- I'm gonna throw in mine.

I can't be bothered to go back through all of this nonsense and find the direct quotes from LetEmKnow, but I'm fairly confident that his main point was that Austin Aries would definitely be overlooked in the WWE because he is not big enough or entertaining enough.

That's a load of shit. First of all, I am certainly not the person who thinks that the WWE is the holy grail of wrestling. I love ROH and Austin Aries, and I hope he stays right where he is at. However, if Aries would end up working for the WWE, he could be successful- as a mid-carder or better.

So LetEmKnow says Aries is too small, right? He is a ligitimate 5'9. The WWE has a habit of adding 1-2 inches to a wrestler's height, so he would more than likely be billed as 5'10. There have been plenty of guys who have had great careers in the WWE who have been billed between 5'10 and 6' (HBK, Bret Hart, CM Punk, Chris Jericho, RVD- ya know, just to name a few). These guys seem to have been able to craft a very impressive career even though they are all smaller than your prototypical WWE wrestler. Hell, Rey Mysterio is 5'6 and is still one of the most over guys in the WWE. Not to mention that the man that LetEmKnow considers to be "Mr. Entertainment", Santino Marella is only 5'10. Hmmm, sounds kinda similar to Aries, huh?

So LetEmKnow says Aries would be overlooked because he's not entertaining, right? He is every bit as talented- even more so on the mic- than Evan Bourne (who is 5'9, by the way) who has been getting a pretty decent push and a nice reaction from the fans. Aries has a tremendous moveset, magnetic charisma, solid in ring ability and phenomenal mic skills. Please tell me what is not entertaining about that?

The fact is, the WWE does not bury everyone who is not a homegrown talent. CM Punk is the poster child for it. He made his name in ROH and has been given every opportunity in the world to be successful in the WWE. Aries has the talent. If he was given the opportunity to shine, he would.

 

[G3]

I don't think Aries would do good in WWE. I don't see him going past mid card ever. He is an alright wrestler but he would never be big in WWE. Aries got a chance in TNA and didn't do anything besides win a Kevin Nash Invitational. I also think the only reason Rey Mysterio was given the title was due to the death of Eddie Guerrero. Also the list of wrestlers HBK, Chris Jericho and RVD all have around 25-30 pounds on Aries.

 

[UndisputedChump]

I don't know if Austin Aries would even last in the WWE, not because of talent or lack of character, but only because of backstage politics, during his run in TNA, he made poor decisions that caused him to look bad by management. One example was missing a flight that he was told to take by TNA to make it to an event at a certain time ,and had what was believed to be a bad attitude when he was asked to do vignettes during a day he thought was a day off, causing him to be suspended. Aries is definitely not like jeff hardy or orton, even though they have had their backstage incidents and personal problems, they've proven to be main event draws and given time to come back after suspensions. If Aries pulled these stunts for WWE, who knows if he'll get buried as a punishment or even fired.

Also people have pointed out that mysterio and bourne have had success in the WWE while being below 6 ft. Bourne has shown to have some impressive matches against Rey and a recent match with Kofi. rey also has had his share of titles, the cruiserweight, wwe tag title runs with main event caliber tag partners (Edge, Eddie, and Batista), IC title, and the heavyweight title, which was pointed out only possibly cause of eddie's death. As the argument for Vince mold, such as muscled up 6ft+, that seems to only apply for the main event spot.

Aries may only become a mid-carder, and even if he does get released, it's not the end of the world, but possibly won't affect him as much because he has name recognition in Ring of Honor and Pro Wrestling Guerilla, hell Colt Cabana was released by the WWE and the next night he fought at PWG for their title and had the fans mark out for his return, and the ROH fans marked out when he was revealed to be Danielson's mystery partner in a tag match. Even Paul London was about to get some time in PWG during their annual tag tournament, but only bowed out because of injuries. So the argument about losing value by getting released may not apply as much to Aries as it would to other mid card wrestlers.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I wouldn't say that Ring of Honor is declining. They simply changed their letters. Instead of ROH, it's been changed to the letters "WWE".

This is the most wrestling focused Era of any WWE period, since before the first Wrestlemania. No more gimmicks. No more storylines. Just nothing but straight up wrestling ... week after week ... after week, with very little done to actually get people to care about the feuds. The same matches repeated over and over and over again.

WWE is the new ROH.

 

[The_Monarch8123]

ROH is the true alternative to WWE. I wouldent say their declining, just a bit stale maybe. I think the biggest fuck up is defanitly letting Gabe go, Fuck Silken for that. As well as burning out the Philly Crowd with all the tv tapings. Sure tv is great for ROH but The Philly Crowd is burnt and weak atm. BRING BACK ORIGINAL ROH SHOWS TO PHILLY PLEASE! I loved the old national guard armory, The Arena is a bitch unless your front row. But back on topic...I hate to say it but I think the future of ROH is very uncertain. Yeah the economy but they need tv that's not hdnet, I dont wanna know the ratings lol. I was pulling for ROH to be on VS when I 1st heard they were getting tv. DO NOT let Danielson go Silken. I know it's just a label but imo he is the best in the world and he isnt even 30 lol.

 

[RVDgurl]

ROH is the true alternative to WWE. I wouldent say their declining, just a bit stale maybe. I think the biggest fuck up is defanitly letting Gabe go, Fuck Silken for that. As well as burning out the Philly Crowd with all the tv tapings. Sure tv is great for ROH but The Philly Crowd is burnt and weak atm. BRING BACK ORIGINAL ROH SHOWS TO PHILLY PLEASE! I loved the old national guard armory, The Arena is a bitch unless your front row. But back on topic...I hate to say it but I think the future of ROH is very uncertain. Yeah the economy but they need tv that's not hdnet, I dont wanna know the ratings lol. I was pulling for ROH to be on VS when I 1st heard they were getting tv. DO NOT let Danielson go Silken. I know it's just a label but imo he is the best in the world and he isnt even 30 lol.

You might think this is alittle off topic, but it's not. You're on to something here. ROH is certainly not declining but the TV presentation is not representative of an ROH show at it's best. The Philly crowd is completely burned out. I have attended every Philly show for the past 3 years and the last TV taping I attended doesn't compare to shows of the past. I enjoy the shows at the Arena (although I do always get front row), but I miss the armory as well. The intensity is just not there like it used to be.
To be honest, the venue choice is not the main reason for the burnout of the Philly crowd. I think the double shows is just overkill. Having shows Friday and Saturday nights thins out the ROH regulars who usually supply most of the intensity. My crew has only been attending the Satruday night tapings because it's just not practical to attend both shows. It's expensive and time consuming.
To my knowledge, there are no more scheduled Philly dates after the upcoming August 14th and 15th shows. While I love being able to catch an ROH show on a monthly basis, I'm hoping that the TV tapings will hit the road and visit other cities with a good ROH fanbase such as Chicago and New York.

 

[Ty Burna]

I don't think Ring of Honor is necessarily declining, and based on what Harthan said at the beginning of the thread, I'd have to agree with him after watching the show on HDNet, and then purchasing some ROH DVD's a couple weeks ago. Let's put it into perspective here. They have enough solid footage from their TV tapings to maybe put out 2 or 3 DVDs, if that even. Now compare it to the DVD stockpile that ROH has available, you could go crazy trying to pick out what DVDs you want to purchase. Trust me on this, I had a hell of a time just trying to select 4 DVDs. But we're getting off topic here.

The ROH show on HDNet is great I think, it's an hour long like ECW is, gives you roughly 3-4 matches depending, with the main event being a very solid match every time. The only thing that concerns me a little, is that ROH is all about the wrestling. That's great, if you're a fan like me where storylines don't have to play an integral part of the show, but the WWE gets a certain amount of people that watch their shows for the storylines rather than the wrestling. So with that being said, I don't think ROH has really gone downhill at all, their DVD sales could have only gone up since starting on HDNet, since the core group of fans were already buying their DVDs, the people that got hooked on it from the HDNet shows may get interested to see what else they have to offer. That goes for all merchandise in general, but the DVDs are the bread and butter for ROH, thus why it is important if their DVD sales grow.

ROH like usual has solid talent over all, the main event scene is in good shape with Aries as champion, Tyler Black being built up as a future champion, Danielson is always a threat to the title, and of course when Nigel Mcguinness returns they will have another option for the main event. The midcard is in great shape, the Embassy is around like usual, and eventually Jimmy Jacobs and Age of the Fall will return in one way or another. The Tag Division is pretty good, and could only get better. Kevin Steen and El Generico are very good as a tag team, I was relatively surprised when watching a match of theirs on HDNet. So overall I think ROH will be fine, as far as their TV Tapings are concerned, that remains to be seen but at the very least it is going to bring some new fans in, and that's a plus for ROH.

 

[JDavis328]

I think its in a place similar to before the whole Punk vs Joe saga came. They were in a place where things were in the unsure then that fued brought them to the next level. I think ROH just needs those 2 guys who go out and put on a amazing fued that brings it to the next level. They got great talent. The American Wolves are AMAZING together. They honestly are a breath of fresh air in the ROH tag scene. It had been to the same for a bit after the stables left and it was briscoes,ATOF,and Steen and Generico. Aries is a great champ. Its the champ that for the most part you hate and you watch everytime just hopeing he loses but right when it looks like he will,it doesnt happen. The match he won the title in was classic. It wasnt quite a dirty win but it wasnt a honorable one ether. Add to that some visiting people seemingly like mainstays like Sonjay,KENTA,Williams and the tags like young bucks and smash bros. I think ROH is on the verge of something big