Revenge and Its Limits

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Basically I've been toying with this idea for a little while.

I recently was reading the Yu-Gi-Oh! manga and I was at the return of Seto Kaiba, a devious character who loses a card game to the protagonist Yugi Mutou. That's it, Kaiba enjoys the card game, and is a dick so Yugi defeats him and hands out some karma justice. He gives Kaiba a penalty game, essentially a punishment that Yugi hands out that is in some way ironic. In this case, Kaiba is tormented by the monsters in his card game (He believes they're going to kill him).

Now Kaiba returns and he's less than pleased to say the least. He's so enraged in fact that he decides to spend a cool 10 Billion Yen (Roughly $85 Million) on a giant indoor theme park that is called 'Death-T' and essentially is designed to kill Yugi & his friends, and also make them suffer. Yugi is also tormented by the fact that his grandfather has been taken to hospital after Kaiba delivered his own Penalty Game, a virtual version of the one he suffered at the hands of Yugi. There is also the underlying addition of the fact that Kaiba is determined to prove he is better than Yugi, and has in fact never lost before at anything.

Now this all seems a tad elaborate and pretty drastic, and while it does occur in a work of fiction, it did make me think; is there a limit to revenge? In the case I mentioned above, I think it's all a bit over the top. Yes Kaiba has never ever lost before and also incurred Yugi's wrath with the Penalty Game but it's all a bit over the top.

So the question is this:

Is there a limit to revenge, and if so, what is it?

 

[Xemmy]

First I'd like to say that you have balls for admiting you read that.
I read part of it about two years ago so I remember what your talking about it alittle bit.

As far as revenge goes- there isn't a limit. Morally there is, but facts are facts. If you want revenge bad enough, and if you have the resources, arrogance, ability to avoid the law and sheer coldness to do it, then the sky is the limit to the dish best served cold.

 

[Loveless]

Ah this is something I have experience with.
It depends on your personality really. How much can you punish someone without realising you've overstepped the mark? For how long can you ignore that voice that says "Don't kill them"? The more self-aware you are, the harder it becomes and once that hint of mercy is in your head, it's over.
I'm not going into major detail on this for obvious reasons but there was someone who majorly crossed a line years ago and I dealt with them in a severe fashion. I had only planned to hurt him but in the moment just before I acted a thought flashed through my head "You know, you could kill him" totally caught me off guard and I didn't have time to think but out of instinct, I rejected it and they simply got a well deserved battering instead.
That moment has pretty much never left my thoughts ever since, I try to think of it as a defining moment and the point I reached my limit but in reality, it has only created a bigger question. Given a similar situation and someone even worse, would I have any mercy next time? It's not a question I ever want to know the answer to.
I think as people, we're capable of horrendous awful things if we feel they're justified. The law goes someway to restraining people by holding up the consequences and saying "Behave yourself or bad things will happen to you" but when you don't care about consequence, what then?
Getting specifically to the question, the only chain on vengeance is the human heart. The more damaged that heart is, the more unrestrained the vengeance.

 

[Dagger Dias]

It comes down to what the revenge seeker is trying to avenge. My immediate response was going to focus around the idea that the limit of revenge is once the revenge seeker kills the person they want revenge against. However, that's not always the case. If the revenge seeker is avenging someone's death, then they will try to end the life of those responsible for their loved one's death. It also depends on one's own personal beliefs. People who do not believe in killing another individual will end up saying that a death to avenge someone would be the limit to revenge. That's not entirely true though. There really isn't a limit to revenge due to the fact that there are some people out there who would do ANYTHING to get back at someone they want revenge against. So it just depends on the individual and what exactly they want revenge for.

 

[Arkham Noir]

This is one of those things that is hard to really answer unless your in the situation. Taking a life is unacceptable to me and I realize that if , as an example, someone were to kill the person you care about most in the world , revenge would be the natural instinct for how to react. But feelings like that shouldn't cloud your judgement. Think about it, the person already ended one persons life, why would you let them end your's by spending the rest of your life in prison? Whom ever you lost woudldn't want that.

For lesser situations than murder, I still think there is still something to be said for rising above. It will always be difficult, but there is no worse defeat than sinking to those kinds of lows.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Revenge is pointless for two reasons. Firstly, any form of vengeance is more than likely illegal, so you being criminally tried afterwards is not just possible, but probable (think about it: if someone wronged you, then you have all the motive in the world to reciprocate; who's to say that your target won't immediately go to the cops and point the finger at you?). Secondly, you have no idea how another person thinks. What they did to you might be justified in their eyes. If this is the case, then won't you going after them only give them more reason to make your life as miserable as humanly possible?

Ideally, revenge is awesome; it puts everything in your hands, essentially allowing you to be judge, jury, and executioner. However, there are always too many unknown factors; ultimately, you'll be better off cutting your losses and dropping your bitterness for the sake of your health and future.

 

[Loveless]

Revenge is pointless for two reasons. Firstly, any form of vengeance is more than likely illegal, so you being criminally tried afterwards is not just possible, but probable (think about it: if someone wronged you, then you have all the motive in the world to reciprocate; who's to say that your target won't immediately go to the cops and point the finger at you?). Secondly, you have no idea how another person thinks. What they did to you might be justified in their eyes. If this is the case, then won't you going after them only give them more reason to make your life as miserable as humanly possible?

Ideally, revenge is awesome; it puts everything in your hands, essentially allowing you to be judge, jury, and executioner. However, there are always too many unknown factors; ultimately, you'll be better off cutting your losses and dropping your bitterness for the sake of your health and future.

I think you're over simplifying what is a complex human reaction.

Yes it's illegal, but someone angry will simply put more effort into not getting caught or disregard the consequences entirely.
Secondly you're assuming a tit-for-tat response that's only involving the wronged party and the guilty party. Sometimes it's a 3rd party, a friend, a witness or someone you'd never suspect who can't let things go.
I'm not going to argue that revenge is awesome, I think it's pretty much always better to let these things go in the hope that the law will protect the victims and punish the guilty, but we all know that's not always the case.
Sometimes you just have to accept that you're not perfact and say "I cannot let this go"

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I think you're over simplifying what is a complex human reaction.

Yes it's illegal, but someone angry will simply put more effort into not getting caught or disregard the consequences entirely.
Secondly you're assuming a tit-for-tat response that's only involving the wronged party and the guilty party. Sometimes it's a 3rd party, a friend, a witness or someone you'd never suspect who can't let things go.
I'm not going to argue that revenge is awesome, I think it's pretty much always better to let these things go in the hope that the law will protect the victims and punish the guilty, but we all know that's not always the case.
Sometimes you just have to accept that you're not perfact and say "I cannot let this go"

Where do you get the idea that revenge is complex? It's not; it's actually quite simple. Is it only human to want retribution on someone that you felt wronged you? Yes, it is, hence one of the reasons why emotion can serve as a mitigating circumstance in the prosecution of violent crimes.

Anyway, you're not even addressing the point I originally made. I never said that revenge doesn't sometimes overpower us; I'm saying that revenge is never worth it because of the reasons I listed.

 

[Loveless]

Where do you get the idea that revenge is complex? It's not; it's actually quite simple. Is it only human to want retribution on someone that you felt wronged you? Yes, it is, hence one of the reasons why emotion can serve as a mitigating circumstance in the prosecution of violent crimes.

And yet so many people don't persue it, going against their nature. Emotions are complex, right vs wrong, self-preservation vs preservation of something more important, sometimes emotion has little to do with it and it's more a feeling of logical justice.

Anyway, you're not even addressing the point I originally made. I never said that revenge doesn't sometimes overpower us; I'm saying that revenge is never worth it because of the reasons I listed.

Well you're saying that it's not worth it due to the consequences and I'm saying that sometimes the consequences are avoidable, sometimes the consequences are preferable to doing nothing and sometimes they're simply not big enough to be a deterrent

 

[Arkham Noir]

I'm going to have to side with Loveless here. As I said in my original post, I don't belive in surrendering to the notion of revenge, but it isn't always that simple. Not everything is about asking yourself "is it worth it". Revenge has a tendency to overpower rational thought, as do most emotions. As Dagger said earlier, it depends on what the avenger is trying to avenge. If someone is shoved while walking down the street, they most likely can brush it off with no problem. But let's say that your walking down the street with your wife and a group of guys attack you. They rape your wife while your forced to watch.

Few people will be able to honestly say to themselves "it's better to just forget about it".That wouldn't make it right to kill every single one of them with your bare hands, but the human mind can psychologically break after that king of experience.You literally lose control.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

Simply put: No, revenge has no limits.

Generally speaking, when the thought of revenge comes to one’s mind, it is usually caused by some kind of hatred or grievance that was caused by an earlier event in their life. Whether it be because of one person or by the cause of a group, the revenge seeker will build negative emotions toward them for whatever it is that they did. Thus, causing him or her to hate these said people and ultimately want revenge.

The human mind is a complicated thing. It has the ability to do so much beyond possible comprehension. However, as the old saying goes, every yin has a yang. Meaning that although the human mind has its benefits (i.e. intelligence), it can also have some pretty negative side effects. These side effects, of course being: anger, jealousy, frustration, resentment---factors that contribute to the clouding of the mind. When one has their mind clouded, they have an inability to think properly as their emotions tend to get in the way from thinking logical or moral. Thus, this said person would think negative thoughts rather than positive thoughts.

In the case of revenge, when one has their mind clouded, they are not thinking properly. They do not think rationally and predict the consequences that will occur if they actually act out the revenge; all they care about is getting vengeance for whatever it was that contributed to them being so unhappy. Whether it be a rational type of revenge or not---they do not really think about the consequences that can occur because of it. As long as the revenge seeker causes the same suffer to the “target” that the “target” caused to them, the revenge seeker will be satisfied.

Depending on how deep the damage was to the revenge seeker, he or she will use that as a “rubric” to how much revenge they will inflict on the “target.” So say if the “target” killed the revenge seeker’s mother; chances are the revenge seeker will either try to kill the “target” in return. If not that, then the revenge seeker will most likely want to kill the target's own mother so that the target will feel the same feeling that he or she feels.

All in all, there is no limit to how much revenge one will [try to] achieve. Usually, it depends on what type of hurtful act was caused upon them by the target. If the target cause the revenge seeker a minor “injury”, then chances are the revenge seeker will only go for a minor revenge as well.

Fortunately, however, there are those in the world that are beyond the action of revenge. They might think of the taking revenge but don’t because they think logically and are better than that. But it’s safe to say that vengeance is a feeling that everyone has and there are some that will do anything to achieve it. Be it moral or not---they will still do it. They will still try to get their revenge.