RESPECT: Owen Hart

[Ogerz]

You DO realize that YOU were the one who began all of the personal attacks, correct? Go back and read.

Note when you say "Sly, LOL, You got issues bro.". You attacked me first. FACT.

Thats your saying I attacked you? LMAO Are you serious? I wasn't referring to your opinions. Ok, Sly, Instead of saying, Explain more to me that your opinion should be considered as more, you belittled me. My response as Sly you got issues is because of how ARROGANT you are. You made the first strike not me. Once again, your twisting the truth.

But, if you want to call Owen a legend, you HAVE to compare them to those guys. Because they are legends. That's the whole point of this debate, as it has stood between the two of us.

For what accomplishments? Meaningless props given to him through management decisions? What contributions did he make?

You keep talking about him like he did something amazing. He didn't. He was a midcarder. He was an Intercontinenetal and Tag Team wrestler. That was all.

Your the one that first mentioned LEGEND. Read the posts that you have so arrogantly posted for the community. YOU WERE THE FIRST TO SAY THAT WORD. I was campaining for his respect. NOTHING MORE. Your started this entire Legend thing. Arrogant.

Well, I'm glad you are here to tell me who I do and do not like.

Do you even realize how silly it sounds for you to try and tell me who I like and don't?

OK Sly, Let me take a quote from you telling ME WHO I LIKE AND DON'T,

Just because YOU remember that, as an obvious big-time fan of Owen, doesn't mean that's what most people remember.

Pot calling the kettle black. So, I ask YOU the same QUESTION, Do you even realize how silly it sounds for you to try and tell me who I like and don't?

Why do you not understand that objectivity is what any good debate is based around? And, objectively speaking, Owen is not a legend. Simple fact.

I am not the one who said OWEN was a LEGEND. YOU DID. SO I AGREED. Read those posts Sly, YOU WERE THE FIRST PERSON TO MENTION THE WORD LEGEND. NOT ME.

Your facts were that he was a heavyweight champ of his father's promotion right before he was signed by the WWF, USWA champ WHILE he was a member of the WWF in the Hart vs. Lawler feud, and an under card champion in NJPW.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for proving he was more than a midcarder.

Thats your OPINION sly. Mine is that it was MORE THAN ENOUGH at the very least to have earned him MORE RESPECT than he is getting. Why is it that your CONSTANTLY keep hashing that my OPINION is WRONG? It's MINE. Hence, Sly's opinions are ABSOLUTE and noones is right (even though opinion are NOT right or wrong. It's someone personal beliefs.) but his. Equals ARROGANCE.

Because to consider someone a legend, you have to measure what they accomplish against other legends.

Your the one who started saying I said he was a Legend. That word was NOT mentioned by me first. once again, putting words in my mouth.

HAHAHAHAHA

You proved me wrong by saying that the WWE doesn't try to maximize profits by putting the guys who draw the best in positions to be pushed? That the WWE doesn't know who brings the most people to the shows, and who is the more interesting characters on their show?

Your argument here is like someone covering their face with their hands while simultaneously telling someone they'll only believe it if they see it.

I mean, are you really trying to tell me that more people went to the shows to see Owen Hart than Steve Austin? We KNOW that's untrue. Because, if they had, Owen Hart would have been a main-eventer, feuding with other main-eventers. It would be poor business to not do so.

Did I say Owen? No I said KANE. Once again, your putting words in my mouth. That comparison was made as a general statement and NO NAMES WERE MENTIONED BY ME other than KANE's. Your bringing Owen into this mix. Anyone will tell you they came to see Austin over Owen. Even I would have. Once again, This is getting annoying on why I have to keep mentioning the same stuff over and over again because you constantly twist my words and add stuff in as you go, I LIKED Owen. I never said he was Austin or HHH when it came to status. I am simply saying that my OPINION is that Owen deserves RESPECT. I am sorry hat you want to drag this out and take it in every direction possible and make up stories.

Being main-event status in minor league promotions does not make one a legend.

That's your OPINION. I am not going to take that stance as I believe that any status of respect should not be given solely on what they did in the WWE. As I said before, The WWE is not the end all be all of the wrestling world.

HAHAHAHA

You post an entire paragraph on what "Ignorant" means, and you pick ONE word out of the whole entire paragraph to try and make your point, while ignoring the other three definitions which prove mine. That's too funny.

1. destitute of knowledge or education
2. lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified
3. resulting from or showing lack of knowledge
4. or intelligence

So, three definitions prove me right, and one word makes your case. Get over it. It wasn't a flame.

Actually, it was only 2 definitions, shows your reading skills are lacking. If you called me ignorant and then a dummy in one breath, the definition underlined would fit the use of the word Ignorant. Go back to school and brush up.

When you say "everyone knows it", I suppose your excluding the several people who have repped me who agree with me? Or the numerous PMs I have received laughing about how I have "owned Ogerz" in this thread?

Well, unlike your fans, I have asked people PM'ing me thanking me for standing up to your ARROGANCE to not respond in this forum as I don't want this to turn into a 3 ring circus. OOPS. Too late, your fans have already did that. Sorry WZ. I don't need or want my fans to interfere into this as I am doin just fine on my own. Unlike others.

I don't post on wrestling forums for any type of glamor or Internet fame. I could give a fuck less what people think about me and the way I post. I honestly do not care if someone feels I am a bully or I am a sheep. It matters not to me.

LMFAO HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH You MUST or you wouldn't be pressing this issue and making up stories as you go along to try and justify your arrogance.

It seems to matter much more to you than it ever has to me. "almighty Sly being shown up by a nobbie"..."belittled me infront of the community". Where is this imaginary audience coming from?

*sigh*

EVERY PERSON PM'ing you is the audience sly. DUH. Or was that imaginary and not fact.

Ok. Fine. Whatever you want to think. Now shut up about it, and talk about wrestling.

Been trying t do that, you keep it going with your story telling.

Really? Is that so? I started this?

For anyone who wishes to read back and see where the personal attacks started, here are the links to each of our entire posts, up until the first personal attack, and the response afterwards.

Slyfox, Post 7 in thread: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=285347&postcount=7

Ogerz, Post 11: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=285507&postcount=11

Slyfox, Post 13: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=285934&postcount=13

Ogerz, Post 16: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=286100&postcount=16

Note in this post, where Ogerz very clearly says "Sly, LOL, you got issues bro". Personal attack.

Slyfox, Post 18: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=286238&postcount=18

Note in this post, where Slyfox calls Ogerz ignorant because he says HHH only got to be where he was because of Steph, despite HHH's 4 title reigns before he was with her.

So, who really started this?

You addressed me first. You made personal attacks first.

I was pleasent and just gave my opinion. I directed it towards you only because I was curious as your take on my opinion. NOT for your belittling attacks and arrogance. At that time, I didn't know you for what your are. Read that stuff Sly, You haven't really read it yet. Then you add what I said about HHH, An issue I dropped trying to get back on subject yet here you are again, bringing it back up. Your so full of yourself. I bet you carry a mirror around with you.

I'm willing to forget about all that, as your refusal to understand definitions of words is beginning to wear on me. If you wish to say anything else to me, about any attacks you feel I have made on you in this thread, do so in PM. I'll reply.

I'm asking that your next response be regarding Owen, and any sub-topic related to it. Leave the personal stuff for the PM.

I could say the EXACT SAME THING. Your interpret things Sly's way. Thats obvious to me. I on the other hand read it the way the ENGLISH language interprets it. Sorry thats something you also will not comprehend. When you stop story telling and get back to subject without the belittling comments and being more respectful, I will do the same. I will not give respect if I dont get it in return. PERIOD.

 

[Slyfox696]

Your the one that first mentioned LEGEND. Read the posts that you have so arrogantly posted for the community. YOU WERE THE FIRST TO SAY THAT WORD.

How about you read the first post of the thread?

My question is, do you believe Owen Hart is getting the respect most other wrestlers in the WWE are or would be getting now? Or, do you even think his name should be mentioned with the word LEGEND?

Legend is clearly mentioned.

OK Sly, Let me take a quote from you telling ME WHO I LIKE AND DON'T, Pot calling the kettle black. So, I ask YOU the same QUESTION, Do you even realize how silly it sounds for you to try and tell me who I like and don't?

Disregarding the fact that I specifically said early on that I liked Owen, and the fact you have never refuted the assumption that you liked Owen, fair enough point.

So, do you like Owen or not?

Did I say Owen? No I said KANE. Once again, your putting words in my mouth. That comparison was made as a general statement and NO NAMES WERE MENTIONED BY ME other than KANE's. Your bringing Owen into this mix. Anyone will tell you they came to see Austin over Owen. Even I would have. Once again, This is getting annoying on why I have to keep mentioning the same stuff over and over again because you constantly twist my words and add stuff in as you go, I LIKED Owen. I never said he was Austin or HHH when it came to status. I am simply saying that my OPINION is that Owen deserves RESPECT. I am sorry hat you want to drag this out and take it in every direction possible and make up stories.

What the fuck are you talking about here? The whole basis is about whether Owen was a draw or not. You questioned how I knew he was a draw. I told you how. What does Kane have to do with anything, and how is Owen not clearly the center of the discussion? This doesn't even make sense to me.

That's your OPINION. I am not going to take that stance as I believe that any status of respect should not be given solely on what they did in the WWE. As I said before, The WWE is not the end all be all of the wrestling world.

No, it's not, it just happened to be the major league promotion he worked for. If he had worked for WCW instead, I'd be using WCW as the source. Because WCW was the big leagues. USWA in 1994 was not.


As for your other personal shots at me, they will be responded to through PM.

 

[Ogerz]

How about you read the first post of the thread?


Legend is clearly mentioned.

You said I SAID he was a Legend. Not the first guy. I would never say that he was a Legend as he had not done enough to be put up there like Austin and others BUT, I would say that an honorary Legend at the very least. Not for things being accomplished, but for the sacrifices he made for wrestling to put a smile on the fans faces amongst MANY other things including giving his life for the fans. He deserves it. Thats my OPINION.

Disregarding the fact that I specifically said early on that I liked Owen, and the fact you have never refuted the assumption that you liked Owen, fair enough point.

So, do you like Owen or not?

I liked Owen, But I was not in LOVE with him. He was an AWESOME technical wrestler. He could very easily be put into that catagory with Bret. However, Most would not as he never reached the status of Bret. Thats the whole living in Bret's shadow theory. If Owen was given a true shot at being top dog, he would have proved the nay sayers wrong. But unfortunatly, he will always be known as Bret's little brother. It's truly a shame.

What the fuck are you talking about here? The whole basis is about whether Owen was a draw or not. You questioned how I knew he was a draw. I told you how. What does Kane have to do with anything, and how is Owen not clearly the center of the discussion? This doesn't even make sense to me.

You made a comment about the WWE basing their pushes on who drew the most in the main event. Off topic of Owen, I said that it proves nothing as back when Austin was the main eventer, I went to see KANE wrestle and not Austin. Granted, I did Like Austin, but he was not the main reason I went. KANE was. Trying to make a comparison that not in ALL cases could that be true that the main eventer is the ONLY reason people pay money to see them.

Owen was not the biggest guy, but his heart was 100X bigger than most of the wrestlers today. He deserves to be remember by more than the guy that fell from the roof and died. Period. It seems that almost 67% of the people voting agree with me that Owen deserves more.