RESPECT: Owen Hart

[bambam]

Owen Hart.... a LEGEND in most eyes. A 3 time tag champion, 2 time IC champion, European champion, IWGP Junior Heavyweight Champion, USWA Unified World Heavyweight Champion, 2 time Stampede North American Heavyweight Champion, Stampede International Tag-Team Champion, and British Commonwealth Mid-Heavyweight Champion. In 1987, he was named Rookie of the Year, and had the Fued of the Year in 1994, and Tag-Team of the Year in 1995. In all of that, His whole professional career was with one company. Before his death, Vince was quoted as saying,"He is going to make a GREAT WORLD CHAMPION!".

My question is, do you believe Owen Hart is getting the respect most other wrestlers in the WWE are or would be getting now? Or, do you even think his name should be mentioned with the word LEGEND?

I for one DO NOT believe he is getting the respect he deserves!

Take the SvsR games. Jim Neidhart was put on the game because of "The Hart Foundation". Rick Rude, Dude Love, Jake Roberts, and others(though deserving) I believe do not hold the credentials as one Owen Hart.

The WWE H.O.F. He has not been mentioned for the H.O.F at all.

On the day of his death, WWE never says anything about it, mentions it on the web-site, or did they have a 5 year anniversary, which WWE is already talking about doing for Eddie Guerrero(R.I.P).

What do you think? Does Owen get the Respect he is deserved? Or does he even Deserve anything I have just mentioned?

 

[RikRaines]

The big problem is, Owen's wife wants nothing to do with the WWE or the WWE mentioning Owen. Mainly cause he wasn't to keen on the idea of repelling down, but did it anyways for the company he loved.

 

[mrchrisaschrader]

I don't think the WWE wants to involve itself with Martha Hart in any way anymore after the bullshit that transpired following Owen's passing.

I would think with Martha being in charge of just about everything Owen related now that the WWE will avoid further mention of Owen's name to keep Martha off their backs despite the fact Bret has been pulling for Vince to get Owen involved with the HOF.

Does anyone know if Bret is on speaking terms with Martha?

 

[Jeremy Dick]

The last time WWE spoke with Martha, it was due to a nasty legal battle. It's doubtful that they've made amends in the meantime. So while I wholeheartedly agree that Owen doesn't get the recognition he deserves, I don't flat out blame WWE as they probably don't want to go through the legal trouble.

Martha probably wants nothing to do with WWE (understandably), although I really wish they'll work something out within the next few years. I'd love to see Owen in the HOF as much as any of us, and an Owen DVD pack would rule it.

 

[Nin]

I think there is tremendous respect for Owen, it's just not publicised. It's an awkward situation for all parties. While i think the WWE would love to honour him, they're also in a position of responsibility for his death. They cant mention him on TV because he's not relevant to the WWE of today and they cant make him relevant unless they start showing old clips. I'm sure his wife would love that.
I expect the issue of the HOF will properly come up in 2009 with the 10 year anniversary but i dont expect it to be resolved unless Bret leads by example and puts aside his problems with the WWE first.

 

[JP15CF]

I think Owen Hart does get respect, but from outside the WWE. Many Wrestling radio shows, such as the "LAW" (Live Audio Wrestling). They do an anniversary show each year honoring Owen for a whole 2hr. segment. I do think WWE is in a tough position, but with all that Owen and Bret did for the WWE, including Stew, they should really come to terms with it and acknowledge Owen for his accomplishments.

J.P. Fantuzzo

 

[Slyfox696]

I think it's amazing just how much better Owen Hart became after he died. It seems as if most people feel sorry for him and make the guy a lot bigger than he ever was in real life.

I enjoyed Owen Hart, but let's call him what he really was. A career midcarder. He was never a main-eventer, except for the can't fail angle of brother vs. brother. He was fairly heatless, and was mired in the midcard with no real window for any change.

If Owen Hart hadn't died, there's no telling how much or how little he would have accomplished. But, the man not anything based on his current work.


Owen Hart is completely overrated by today's wrestling fans.

 

[John Stamos' Pubic Hair]

I can somewhat agree with what Slyfox696 says. As alot of people seem to become bigger after death...
Owen was a great, great wrestler! But I still think there are those that came before & after him that deserve to be in there aswell.
Jake Roberts, Ted DiBiase, British Bulldog, Yokozuna all deserve to be in the Hall.
Although their credentials are some what less then Owen's, they all seemed to bask in the spotlight more then Owen did.
Do I believe Owen could have been a World Champion one day? Yes I do. Teaming with Jeff Jarret & The Rock, helped Owen get a bit more over then he was with Yoko or Bulldog. But lets face it, Owen was one of the Worst on the Mic! That's the only thing that held him back.... (Chris Benoit anyone???)
And I think eventually his skills in the ring & his dedication to the job he loved a long with the loyalty to WWE would have made him a champion one day.

Was Owen Underrated? YES! There was so much more Owen could have done even before his death....

 

[joet1102]

Owen was underrated! I've been a wrestling fan for 17 years now and my greatest memories was that of the "New Generation" WWF which was The early/mid 90's. Owen Hart was the second best techinically sound superstar on the roster, coming a close second to his brother Bret Hart. I suggest all of you who think he was over-rated to go check out some of his matches. He knew how to carry other superstars in the ring and made them look a whole lot better. Sure he wasn't great on the mic, but he wasn't terrible either. He was able to get his points across. You put Owen Hart in the ring with a star from today whether it be Batista, Cena, hell even Khali....Owen will not only look great during the match, but also make his opponents look great. Eventually he would have been a World Champion. Owen will always go down in my eyes as the most under-rated individual to have ever stepped foot in a WWF/E ring! To answer your question, Owen Hart IS a Legend and he does not get the respect that he so truly deserves!

 

[Y 2 Jake]

As soon as somebody dies they become a legend. Especially if they were a good all rounder. Davey Boy Smith is a legend. Despite the fact he was uncharismatic and very rarley had decent match. He's a legend because he dided. If he was still alive he'd be doing reunion shows in Ohio, with 300 fans.

I liked Owen. Good wrestler. Good talker. Would he ever have got a title run? No way. He was past his prime in the Austin era when he wouldn't have got nowhere near the title. If he was younger and wrestling today would he get the title? Yeah. Without a doubt. But that's beause a lot of wrestlers hant wrestle and talk.

In my opinion he gets more respect because of how he died. If he had died in a car crass he wouldn't be as big a legend in other peoples eyes.

 

[Ogerz]

Sly, It's obvious to me that you didn't like him. But, Does that mean he isn't overrated? When you talking about rating a wrestler overall, you have to look at his past accomplishments & his in ring ability. NOT WHAT STORYLINES he was in leading up to that horrible night.

My take? Owen is one of the most underrated wrestlers of all time. Look at the first post in this thread. Look how many championships he won? Can Steve Austin say that? How about HHH? Yet I bet anything you think they are better. Not only was Owen a champ in every promotion he graced, but his IN-RING skills far pasted 75% of the wrestlers today. I wished ALL of the wrestlers today had as much passion and heart for wrestling. All they see now-a-days is $$$$.

As much as that night saddened me, As I was watching On PPV that fateful night, in his mind, he was entertaining his FANS. He stated many times in his career that wrestling was his life. He gave his life for it. I personally think that stunt was not something he should have done. He would have proved naysayers like some that he could have been as big if not bigger than Bret.

His wife is understandably angry and is stopping the WWE from using his name in DVD's and such, but she should listen to the world of fans that are out here BEGGING for something more in honor of his life. Being inducted into the H.O.F. is something OWEN would have wanted. Why stop his dream? She believes that us wrestling fans are the reason Owen is not here today, so until she comes to terms with everything, don't expect to see anything OWEN. I hope someday she will change her mind as he DESERVES to be recognized for his accomplishments.

 

[Shocky]

I think Owen Hart was under rated his entire career.

The guys promo skills were great. His in ring ability top notch. He is amongst the upper echelon of great technical wrestlers that I have ever seen. Almost all of his characters he portrayed were great as well.

Owen was a victim of being too small at the wrong time. Vince loves muscles and steroids, so Owen obviously didn't fit the bill at the time. You can't deny that some of the matches this guy had were top notch. His feud with his brother obviously, and many people forget him and Michaels had insanely good matches.

I doubt we'll see Owen in the HOF, but I won't hold that against the WWE. Martha probably has a ton to say on that end of things, and I doubt that she will change her stance. But Owen Hart was criminally under rated as an overall performer.

 

[Slyfox696]

Sly, It's obvious to me that you didn't like him.

Pretty amazing, considering I always enjoyed Owen's work...in fact, I even said that in my last post.

But, Does that mean he isn't overrated? When you talking about rating a wrestler overall, you have to look at his past accomplishments & his in ring ability. NOT WHAT STORYLINES he was in leading up to that horrible night.

Yes, and what accomplishments did Owen ever have?

He's only had two memorable matches, which came against Bret Hart, in a ready-made storyline feud, which was the only time Owen even sniffed the main-event. At no point was he a major player in the company, and there was no indication that would ever change.

Owen is completely overrated.

My take? Owen is one of the most underrated wrestlers of all time. Look at the first post in this thread. Look how many championships he won? Can Steve Austin say that? How about HHH? Yet I bet anything you think they are better.

Steve Austin is the second biggest draw this business has ever seen. Triple H was one of two major draws during the WWF's most successful year ever, and single-handily carried the company through 2003 and 2004.

Can Owen Hart say that?

Not only was Owen a champ in every promotion he graced, but his IN-RING skills far pasted 75% of the wrestlers today. I wished ALL of the wrestlers today had as much passion and heart for wrestling. All they see now-a-days is $$$$.

Yeah, and you can say the same thing about William Regal and Fit Finlay.

I suppose they are legends as well huh.

Owen was a victim of being too small at the wrong time. Vince loves muscles and steroids, so Owen obviously didn't fit the bill at the time.

This is such a cop-out.

Vince McMahon doesn't love muscles and steroids, he loves guys who can make him money. He doesn't give a damn what they look like, as long as they make money.

The people who love muscles and steroids are wrestling fans, not Vince McMahon.

 

[Screen]

Yes he should be in the HOF. Too bad his wife doesn't want WWE to mention him anymore. Seems as if the whole world has forgotten Owen Hart. But I never will. RIP.

 

[Shocky]

This is such a cop-out.

Vince McMahon doesn't love muscles and steroids, he loves guys who can make him money. He doesn't give a damn what they look like, as long as they make money.

The people who love muscles and steroids are wrestling fans, not Vince McMahon.

Come on, you can honestly say you've watched the wWE for the better part of 20 years and don't think that McMahon shows an appreciation and favortism for guys with larger then life physiques. Look at the man himself, he is in love with muscles and body building. Hell, he even tried to start his own body building federation.

There were two things that stood in front of Owen, and size was one of them. Not necessarily the gigantic frame, which I think does have a lot to do with it, but certainly by his height. Plus, he was the younger brother, living in the shadows, and he could never get out from under.

It wasn't until the influx of the WCW mid carders that the WWE really started to take anyone under 6 feet tall seriously as World Champion material, and even now, the WWE is starting to revert back to super Heavyweight land.

 

[Ogerz]

Sly, LOL, You got issues bro. How can you say your a Owen Fan yet you only have 2 memorable matches with him in it? Are you kidding me? There were several for me. BTW, Austin Broke EVERY record Hogan set for merchandise and "DRAW". He is the top dog and he still out sells half of their current roster with merchandise and he doesn't have to dawn the tights to do it.

Regal and Finley BOTH are SOUND WRESTLERS. You see, to me, a wrestler can be "GREAT" AND be a "LEGEND" for their IMPACT on wrestling as a whole. I would consider BARRY HOROWITZ a LEGEND for putting over guys like The HHH's and The Austins. WITHOUT these guys making them look good all those years, where would they really be? But your stance which is obvious to me is, a Legend is someone that makes the company the most money and who held the most titles. Hence, your a backseat wrestling fan. Not a hardcore or True Wrestling fan.

Oh, and I am sorry, But Vince will not push you hard unless your a steroid freak or sleeping with his daughter. HHH accomplished jack and S*** in WCW and then he comes to the WWE and still does NOTHING until he hooks up with Steph. ALL REAL WRESTLING FANS KNOW THAT. Why don't you? Don't belittle Me and Paul Bearer for us basing our comments on FACTS. I think most will agree. Look at Snitsky, he has only squashed little and midcarders for months. Not one person thinks he is worth a toss, yet here is Vince, Madly in love with him and for WHAT REASON other than he is a 6'4 MONSTER? Vinces history speaks for itself.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Vince McMahon doesn't love muscles and steroids, he loves guys who can make him money. He doesn't give a damn what they look like, as long as they make money.

The people who love muscles and steroids are wrestling fans, not Vince McMahon.

For an exception to this statement, please see: Snitsky, Gene.

For proof of this statement, please see: Guttierez, Oscar.

I was going to use Owen Hart for the next edition of "Overrated or Underrated" but this thread has already taken care of that discussion. I do lend a great deal of creedence to the posthumous legend status. Bon Jovi sings a great song "Blaze of Glory" which is exactly what Owen Hart went down in. And I do mean went DOWN. Sorry, not funny...

Anyway, it's not unreasonable to believe the reasons Owen has such a following are the way he died and the fact that his last name is Hart. Eddie Guerrero died of a drug overdose and accomplished worlds more than Owen did, yet people aren't clamoring as much for his "respect."

 

[Slyfox696]

Come on, you can honestly say you've watched the wWE for the better part of 20 years and don't think that McMahon shows an appreciation and favortism for guys with larger then life physiques. Look at the man himself, he is in love with muscles and body building. Hell, he even tried to start his own body building federation.

Yes, I can honestly say that. Hell, Vince McMahon said that himself.

GRIFFIN: Steroids, human growth hormone, and the quest for bigger people in this industry: You like big guys, right?

VINCE McMAHON: I take exception to the fact that -- our locker room now in terms of weight, as far as big guys are concerned, is lighter than it's ever been in history.

There's an expression in our business that here is where you make your money: It's your face. It's what you do with it. It's your personality; it's what you do with it. It's your delivery, your elocution, it's storyline. It's all those things that are theatrical as well as athletic in the ring.

And again, in terms our weights of average are way below anything we've ever had before. We have performers anywhere from 5-feet-5, Rey Mysterio, you know, to someone like the giant Kali, who's over 7 feet and over 300 pounds.

LINDA McMAHON: Oh, you're forgetting your little Leprechaun ...

(As part of the WWE script, Vince McMahon has introduced a little person, dressed as a leprechaun, who McMahon's character had to admit was his son.)

VINCE McMAHON: That's true, right.

GRIFFIN: I wouldn't think you'd want to bring that up. [LAUGHTER]

LINDA McMAHON: It's all story. [LAUGHTER]

VINCE McMAHON: But, but... [LAUGHTER] You know, we have just about every conceivable -- we have someone called the Undertaker, we have characters -- and that's what people enjoy when they see our product.

If someone just wanted large bodies, sculpted physiques and things of that nature, they would really be into bodybuilding. Bodybuilding would be where we are in terms of sport or in terms of entertainment. That's not the case.

It's not about guys with big muscles and big frames, but rather about guys who make the company money. That's what the entire business is about. If it was just about muscles and stature, then how does Rey Mysterio have a job? William Regal? Umaga? CM Punk? Jamie Noble? Hornswoggle?

It has nothing to do with size and stature, but rather moneymaking ability and potential.

Sly, LOL, You got issues bro. How can you say your a Owen Fan yet you only have 2 memorable matches with him in it? Are you kidding me? There were several for me.

Because he only had two memorable matches, memorable for their quality.

BTW, Austin Broke EVERY record Hogan set for merchandise and "DRAW". He is the top dog and he still out sells half of their current roster with merchandise and he doesn't have to dawn the tights to do it.

I'm not going to get off-topic on a Hogan vs. Austin debate, but feel free to start up a thread in Old School Wrestling forum, and I'll be more than happy to show you why Hulk Hogan is the greatest draw the business has ever seen.

Regal and Finley BOTH are SOUND WRESTLERS. You see, to me, a wrestler can be "GREAT" AND be a "LEGEND" for their IMPACT on wrestling as a whole. I would consider BARRY HOROWITZ a LEGEND for putting over guys like The HHH's and The Austins. WITHOUT these guys making them look good all those years, where would they really be?

I see.

So, Barry Horowitz and The Brooklyn Brawler are wrestling legends then huh? That's an interesting theory.

But your stance which is obvious to me is, a Legend is someone that makes the company the most money and who held the most titles. Hence, your a backseat wrestling fan. Not a hardcore or True Wrestling fan.

A legend is someone who people cared about on a large level, so that they were willing to spend their time and money just to see the guy.

Owen Hart never EVER reached that status.

And, I would put my wrestling knowledge against yours any day of the week.

Oh, and I am sorry, But Vince will not push you hard unless your a steroid freak or sleeping with his daughter.

Yeah...kind of like that Hornswoggle fellow...man what a steroid user that guy is!

HHH accomplished jack and S*** in WCW

Well, he was there for a year and a rookie in the business, so we should definitely hold that against him.

and then he comes to the WWE and still does NOTHING until he hooks up with Steph.

Right. Nothing except 4 WWF Heavyweight Title reigns, right in the middle of the Attitude Era with mega draws Rock and Austin. He was dating Joanie Laurer (Chyna) into the year 2000. His fourth title reign came in May of 2000.

But, clearly, he did nothing until he got with Stephanie.

You really should check your facts before posting. You come off very ignorant when you don't.

ALL REAL WRESTLING FANS KNOW THAT.

Really? Because I could have swore I just handed you your ass, complete with all the trimmings, on a silver platter.

Why don't you?

Because it's completely untrue? Perhaps?

Don't belittle Me and Paul Bearer for us basing our comments on FACTS.

The funniest thing you've said yet. The only facts you've provided are completely false, and have been proven so. Everything else has been opinion.

I think most will agree. Look at Snitsky, he has only squashed little and midcarders for months. Not one person thinks he is worth a toss, yet here is Vince, Madly in love with him and for WHAT REASON other than he is a 6'4 MONSTER? Vinces history speaks for itself.

And yet, he's had absolutely no titles in his several years in the WWE. Hornswoggle, on the other hand, in about a year in the WWE is a cruiserweight champion and Vince McMahon's illegitimate child.

But you're right. It has nothing to do with people who make money, but rather size and stature.

I mean, surely you know what Vince McMahon likes more than Vince McMahon himself.

 

[Luke-E]

Owen gets the repect he deserves from everyone.

Im sure as hell WWE would have him in the WWE if it was not for his wife, yes when a family member dies you are upset and always look for someone to blame but by now she should have moved on and let the WWE honor a great wrestler in public and not behind closed doors.

 

[Shocky]

That Quote from Vince McMahon is face value though in my opinion. It has no substance. When you look at the guys getting the pushes and getting on pay per view, it's still the bigger guys in the company getting the most attention. Plus, McMahon is trying to save face in the middle of the Steroid Scandal going on now.

Even in the Hogan era, there were smaller guys. You need the smaller guys to fill out the under and mid card, the frustration is that the smaller guys have a glass ceiling, and with the exception of a handful of guys at the beginning of this decade getting the title, it's been basically a 6'2, 230 pound minimum of guys getting the world titles and big pushes.

I would say Owen is a helluva lot similar to Rick Rude. Two guys that put on good matches consistantly, incredible charisma, and great ability to bury their opponents on the mic. The guys just didn't have the size, mainly the height, to get over to the next level.

 

[Slyfox696]

That Quote from Vince McMahon is face value though in my opinion. It has no substance. When you look at the guys getting the pushes and getting on pay per view, it's still the bigger guys in the company getting the most attention. Plus, McMahon is trying to save face in the middle of the Steroid Scandal going on now.

Even in the Hogan era, there were smaller guys. You need the smaller guys to fill out the under and mid card, the frustration is that the smaller guys have a glass ceiling, and with the exception of a handful of guys at the beginning of this decade getting the title, it's been basically a 6'2, 230 pound minimum of guys getting the world titles and big pushes.

I would say Owen is a helluva lot similar to Rick Rude. Two guys that put on good matches consistantly, incredible charisma, and great ability to bury their opponents on the mic. The guys just didn't have the size, mainly the height, to get over to the next level.

That is incredibly short-sighted though and not really indicative to what's going on. Being big has nothing to do with McMahon pushing you. It's the ability to draw and make money that makes Vince push you. And, the fact is, American wrestling fans want to see big strong, larger than life characters, and not some skinny guy who looks like someone I can beat up. They want big strong guys. And so, Vince McMahon gives fans what they want.

Don't blame Vince McMahon for what the WWE fans want to see. I mean, look at Rey Mysterio. He's 5'3", chunky and hardly cut in any way. Additionally, he's not a high flyer any more. But, the WWE fans still pay to see him as he's one of the bigger draws in the company. So, the WWE pushes him.

It's not really hard.

Saying Vince McMahon only pushes big guys is like saying the Civil War was about slavery. That's what it may look like on the surface, but really has little to do with the actual cause.

 

[Shocky]

But even with a guy like Mysterio the WWE didn't start to push him until he became noticeably larger in size. Same goes for Benoit, and the same goes for Guerrero. it wasn't until these guys put on considerable muscle mass that they decided to push these guys to the moon.

I'm not saying you have to be huge to be over, I'm saying that you have to be incredibly lucky to get over without being huge in the main event level. I guess this is where you and I disagree is in the fact of McMahon pushing what the fans want, and McMahon pushing who he wants and pushing them until they get over.

When talking about Owen or Rude, I think that McMahon knew that they were very, very reliable in the mid card, and if a ball or two bounces a certain way, these guys would have been thrust into the next level. I think that these guys were so good that McMahon was afraid to push them, in the event that they did fail in the main event, like a Matt Hardy, and then they are stuck at Mid Card status with no option of going further.

 

[Ogerz]

WOW, there's an intelligent comparison of McMahon pushing a MIDGIT over pushing OWEN. With everything going on with the steroid scandle, WHY would he EVER take attention away from the BIGGER GUYS and give it to him. EVERYONE knows that Kennedy was the "Bastard Son" until this happened. Vince had to take the spotlight off of him because he was suspended for violations to the Wellness Policy.

So HHH was with Chyna until 2000 and by then he was a 4 time champ. So, HHH was LOYAL to Chyna until then? LOLOLOLOLOLOL Thats good. Everyone knows he was having an affair with Steph and god only knows how long. Just because he was with her until 2000 proves nothing but how easy you are to manipulate.

BTW, I am not saying every person to hold the title was a bulked up steroid freak, but, by definition, it doesn't hurt. The only reason Snitsky has not held a title is because they are trying to build him as a Goldburg type wrestler but they want to stretch his streak as long as they can. He to this date had not been put up against anyone that would really challenge him.

Why wouldn't Barry Horowitz or The Brooklyn Brawler be considered a legend? Everyone loved watching them wrestle and put over the main eventers. Horowitz was given a small push a long time ago and everyone was nuts for him. In fact, they went so crazy about him winning a big match that it probably scared Vince for making that ity-bity push. Horowitz could have been a draw, but never given the chance to show. Typical VKM way to squash anything that the "FANS" wanted to see. Maybe it was because Horowitz was not the typical Steroid freak, maybe not. But I know where I am leaning to.

Vince McMahon has always told the public that he knows what the fans want and they don't. I will be the first to admit that he hits the nail on the head ALOT, but, the simple things of given certain wrestlers (Not just Owen) a push to see if they could ever be a "DRAW" is wrong. If he truly listened to the fans, Snitsky would be gone. This guy has NOTHING to offer but size. The only reason the locker room is smaller than its ever been is because the bigger guys of today are hurting people and flat out can't wrestle.

BTW, The only thing you have proven is you have alot of opinion that you yourself believe to be fact. Means your egotistical in thinking that you could not possibly be wrong. Were all wrong sometimes. I never claimed to know everything. But I do know alot.

 

[Slyfox696]

But even with a guy like Mysterio the WWE didn't start to push him until he became noticeably larger in size. Same goes for Benoit, and the same goes for Guerrero. it wasn't until these guys put on considerable muscle mass that they decided to push these guys to the moon.

It was also around that time that fans were tuning in to watch them more and paid money for their merchandise.

I mean, Valmir Kozlov was a big giant man with big muscles, and look where he is.

I'm not saying you have to be huge to be over, I'm saying that you have to be incredibly lucky to get over without being huge in the main event level. I guess this is where you and I disagree is in the fact of McMahon pushing what the fans want, and McMahon pushing who he wants and pushing them until they get over.

Who has Vince McMahon pushed hard despite years of not getting over?

Whether they are small or large?

When talking about Owen or Rude, I think that McMahon knew that they were very, very reliable in the mid card, and if a ball or two bounces a certain way, these guys would have been thrust into the next level. I think that these guys were so good that McMahon was afraid to push them, in the event that they did fail in the main event, like a Matt Hardy, and then they are stuck at Mid Card status with no option of going further.

But, Rick Rude was a steroid freak with big muscles and a tight frame. Since Vince really likes those guys, surely he would have pushed Rude. So, why didn't he push Rick Rude? Because he was afraid that he would fail in the main-event and end up right back where he spent his entire WWF career? I'm not certain I understand that logic.

WOW, there's an intelligent comparison of McMahon pushing a MIDGIT over pushing OWEN. With everything going on with the steroid scandle, WHY would he EVER take attention away from the BIGGER GUYS and give it to him. EVERYONE knows that Kennedy was the "Bastard Son" until this happened. Vince had to take the spotlight off of him because he was suspended for violations to the Wellness Policy.

Yes, and because Kennedy was suspended, they had absolutely no other big guys they could have made McMahon's son. Like Khali or Big Daddy V or Kane or Undertaker or Snitsky or Lashley or Chuck Palumbo or John Cena or....whomever.

No, there clearly was no other big guys around that could have been McMahon's son once KENNEDY was suspended. Boy that Kennedy is a mammoth guy too.

So HHH was with Chyna until 2000 and by then he was a 4 time champ. So, HHH was LOYAL to Chyna until then? LOLOLOLOLOLOL Thats good. Everyone knows he was having an affair with Steph and god only knows how long. Just because he was with her until 2000 proves nothing but how easy you are to manipulate.

Ahh, I see. I didn't realize you were privy to information the rest of the entire wrestling world was not. Considering how it's been widely reported by wrestling outlets and corrobated by Steph and Hunter themselves, and verified by Vince that they started getting close until the McMahon-Helmsley Era angle in 2000.

But, of course, you clearly know better.

I'm by no means a Triple H supporter, but to say HHH is only where he is because of Stephanie is just ridiculous. Maybe he wouldn't have 11 title reigns, but he would still easily be a 6-8 time WWE champion.

BTW, I am not saying every person to hold the title was a bulked up steroid freak, but, by definition, it doesn't hurt. The only reason Snitsky has not held a title is because they are trying to build him as a Goldburg type wrestler but they want to stretch his streak as long as they can. He to this date had not been put up against anyone that would really challenge him.

Do you even watch wrestling?

Build Snitsky as a Goldberg type? That makes so little sense I don't even understand how you could put that. And, you're right, they haven't put him up against anyone who would challenge him.

Except the WWE Champion John Cena on Raw, a match he lost.

Why wouldn't Barry Horowitz or The Brooklyn Brawler be considered a legend?

Umm...what?

If you consider Horowitz and Brawler to be wrestling legends, then you might as well include the Goboldy Gooker, Samba Simba, The Repo Man, Skinner, The Beserker, Paul Roma, Herculez Hernandez wrestling legends too.

Everyone loved watching them wrestle and put over the main eventers. Horowitz was given a small push a long time ago and everyone was nuts for him. In fact, they went so crazy about him winning a big match that it probably scared Vince for making that ity-bity push. Horowitz could have been a draw, but never given the chance to show. Typical VKM way to squash anything that the "FANS" wanted to see. Maybe it was because Horowitz was not the typical Steroid freak, maybe not.

This is sig-worthy. At least some part has to be in there.

You are actually making a case for Barry Horowitz to be considered a legend. Astounding.

But I know where I am leaning to.

As long as one of us does.

Vince McMahon has always told the public that he knows what the fans want and they don't. I will be the first to admit that he hits the nail on the head ALOT, but, the simple things of given certain wrestlers (Not just Owen) a push to see if they could ever be a "DRAW" is wrong. If he truly listened to the fans, Snitsky would be gone. This guy has NOTHING to offer but size. The only reason the locker room is smaller than its ever been is because the bigger guys of today are hurting people and flat out can't wrestle.

Wow...complete ignorance.

Here's what you need to do. Go find a book. It's called "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Pro-Wrestling". It's written by Captain Lou Albano (an ACTUAL legend). I think you could get a lot of use out of the book.

BTW, The only thing you have proven is you have alot of opinion that you yourself believe to be fact. Means your egotistical in thinking that you could not possibly be wrong. Were all wrong sometimes. I never claimed to know everything. But I do know alot.

What facts would you like me to present to show you that Owen Hart is not Hall of Fame worthy and is nothing more than an overrated smark favorite, primarily because his last name was Hart and he died in the ring?

 

[mauller]

I wished ALL of the wrestlers today had as much passion and heart for wrestling.

at least from what I have heard, Owen Hart didn't want to be a wrestler anymore, he only did it to give his family a nice life.