Religion

[It's...Baylariat!]

Religion. Someone HAD to make a thread about this. I have found out that if you're tired of someone hanging out with you, debate religion and disagree with him/her. It's worked 7/10 times. No lie.

Anyway, NorCal had a most epic post on his views of religion and he shares a lot of the same beliefs I do. But I feel that it's my due diligence to give my take on religion since it's been a LARGE part of my life the past few years.

When I was a wee lad, my Grandma was a Bible thumpin, condemning, judgmental nutcake about Jesus. She made be believe that if I didn't enjoy myself, I'd be doing God's will. Basically, if was miserable, I wasn't sinning. If I wanted for something, or did something that didn't please God, I was sinning and going to hell. Mind you, I was six. I could read before I was three years old, I was on a high school academic team in FOURTH grade, and I managed to still be dumbfounded by this Christianity. Everyone I knew that was Christian was suffering. I wanted NO part of that. But eventually, I was forced to go to a church. Not just any church, a PENTECOSTAL church. What is Pentecost you may ask? Well, it's when the way to honor and sanctify yourself, you have to dance, let yourself go free, and be a complete crazy person all to the beats of drums and tambourines. I was six, my granny took me up to the pulpit and the minister put enough oil on me to deep fry me. I was confused, but knew that I wasn't comfortable with what was taking place. Eventually, my grandma received the 'holy ghost' and started dancing around like she was on fire. I was officially freaked out. I no longer wanted to go to church.

Years past. I was in and out of random churches because my parents would get bouts of hypocrisy and think that the solution to their problems was a church that AMPLIFIED the issues they had. I wasn't jaded to be exact, but I didn't want anything to do with the churches I grew up with. Finally, my senior year in high school...I attend this church for the first time. It was called Word of Faith Church. I had no clue what that meant, but I went to my first service, after my dad threatened to throw my mother out of the car by opening her passenger side door. Great family I had. Anyway, we were late, which pissed everyone off because this wasn't one of those typical cathedral churches. This was in an old office building in the main corner of the top floor. Looked nice though.

So I sat through the service. It was great. I was actually positive after the service. I felt like I had a jolt of energy. He didn't condemn anyone, he simply said, 'Here's the Bible's way of how to make your life BETTER!' Never heard that concept before. So I was in the church on a regular basis. And what's funny is that I was the last one to be saved in my entire family, yet...I was also the last person to actually leave the church itself. Irony. So I stayed in the church, got along with the pastor and his family. I was fond of his stepdaughter. She was gorgeous. Great hair, eyes, smile, personality. She was what I thought to be a God send. LOL! Oh and she also had DD breasts. She's known as 'The Lariat's Ex'. Yep, met my last serious girl in a church.

But I was in the Word of Faith Church for around three years. I worked my way up to being a Deacon in the church, waiting on the pastor hand and foot and even traveling to cities with him while he preached. I didn't mind it. It gave me something to do, plus I was warped into thinking that by doing this, I was honoring God and that I would be blessed. Wrong x 100. Turns out, people started leaving his church left and right. My ex was the first to leave and not only did she leave, she was in the immediate family and said, "Fuck this nonesense, I'm getting a tan and wearing ****ty clothes." Which is what she did. It was strange to see everyone leave, but they left...one by one. We changed buildings for services like I change underwear...which is a LOT. When I left, the church was on it's FOURTH building in six years and moved to another one after I left. Needless to say, religion is something I'm not fond of.

I will conclude with this. It's not an issue on what you believe or if you don't believe in nothing. What matters is that you're productive in life. Make a difference. God doesn't want someone to kiss someone's ass to get ahead in life. YOU shouldn't want to get somewhere by taking shortcuts and the like. Tread your own path and believe in what you want. It's a free country and you have the right to believe what you want. I'm open minded and know for a fact there's a higher power. I've seen too many things to NOT believe that. How I met my ex girlfriend is a prime example of some extraordinary things taking place. So be the best person you can be. You may be judged when you're dead and gone, but right now, you're the only person who can be the judge in your life.

 

[Milkyway!]

I questioned Dave on his outlook of religion, and why he chose sceince over religion, and much more. But I don't think I ever gave my true thoughts on religion.

As many of you may know, I was once a preacher in my own, and I was the guy standing behind the pullpit condemning people. Litterally, if you asked me 3 months ago, I would have told you, The Catholics is the Great ****e that the bible speaks of in Revelations, The Pope was The False Prophet, the Jew were still going to hell, but they were going to a diffrent side of hell, in a place called paradise, Muslims were doomed to hell, and anyone basically not a baptist made no sense, and were more than likely going to hell.

Then, I met one of my better friends over the internet. Many of you know her has Eternal Dragon, I know her as Hammy. Now what hammy did for me was simple, she proved to me that there are good people out there, of diffrent religions. That, theres no way God, would judge you on your clothes, the bible you carry around, the religion you believe, but, only the faith you have in him. Theres no way God could do such a horrible thing, in sending such a nice girl like Eternal Dragon to hell, simply because she gave God a name, and called him Allah.


I have faith in the story of Jesus Christ, as his body is not findable, its historically proven the he hung on the cross, and the simple fact that I just have that sort of Faith in Jesus Christ. But the Lord and savior I know, didn't preacher condemnation, nor did he preach on religion itself, he preached on Love, Mercy, and Faith. He taught the Jews, and the Gentiles of the day to believe, not to condemn, as condemnation were his to give, and only his, to the UNJUST of this world.

See, I believe not in any sort of religion whatsoever. Whats that you may ask? You're athiest? No. I believe that religion is a profound system in ways to make money, and its really just a lable. Which means nothing to God. What God cares about, is your faith in him. Not the religion you serve. I believe that works alone can't get you in heaven, but Faith can.

You may ask, "Well what about those that don't believe in heaven" Check nearly every single religious book on the face of this earth, they all speak of the same place, just a diffrent name. Its not about the names you put on yourself, but its about what you truely believe, and have faith in. Because in the end, thats all that matters, is the fact that you have faith in something.

I believe in many things, and religion isn't one of them. Because its not religion thats going to send your to heaven, but its faith in God himself. So, thats my outlook on religion.

 

[Ty Burna]

Well after reading through the other posts about religions here, I guess I should throw my 25 cents in. I was raised Catholic as a child, and my family went almost every Sunday, which was fine I really don't remember much in the early years if I cared for church or not. But it was about when I was 11 or 12 years old that I became very active in the Church, I was an altar server and I was also the youngest Lecturer the church had ever had. But there was one problem I had, well a problem the church figured I had. I have always been an inquisitive person and I have the need to always ask questions in order to fully understand something. It's basic human nature to question things right?

Well as I got to be 13 and 14, my questions started to irritate my CCD teachers, and they would never answer my questions directly. The only answer I ever received was that the Bible says this and thus it is correct. This obviously wasn't good enough for me, so I began participating less and less in the church, to the point I never went to Mass on Sundays. It was also around this time that I started to see some of the uglier sides of life, 9/11 was a big part of this, as it really opened my eyes to the suffering that we live through in this life. This event also brought up the question of Islam and what it truly represented. Was it a religion of violence, or was it one of peace that others have twisted for their own selfish ways? This lead me then to begin studying other religions, but most notable of them all was my studying into Pagan and Neo Pagan religions. I began to read how fluid the old and new Pagan religions were, and how you had the capability of learning and growing on your own. The knowledge I learned from these studies empowered me to realize that I did not need someone above me like a priest to tell me how I should believe and how I should live.

Thus I turned away from the Catholic Church and began my practice in the Pagan ways, learning the rituals of magick, how to honor my Goddess and my God properly, and I also learned that I had such a strong ability when it came to healing and just white magick in general. I still went to CCD, but it was at this point I wanted to continue asking questions, as I knew more than the teachers did when it came to Christianity, and religion in general. My questions were never answered, and I again became frustrated because if this was a class to help you grow and learn in your religion, the teachers should at least know more than a student should. So finally it came to the day where I told my priest and my parents that I would not be going through with Confirmation because of my doubts and personal wish to continue on an individual journey to find my own path. The priest was very understanding, my mother was as well. My father on the other hand, he accepted it after awhile, but it still hurt him in a way. More on this later by the way. The one person I was worried about most was my grandfather. He had gone to church ever Sunday and played acoustic guitar for the music pieces during Mass. When I told him I was not getting Confirmed, he smiled and gave me a hug and told me that I should go find my own way just as long as it remained a peaceful way.

That was a big boost to me, getting my grandfather's approval. So I furthered my studies, and incorporated Taoism as my other major religion, as well as Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, Confucianism, among many other philosophies. As of now, I had accepted most of Christianity back into my life, right alongside my Pagan beliefs, and the other religions I have studied. This has come to a new term I apply to myself, and that would be a Universalist. The reason why I use this term is because I have taken different parts from multiple religions to create my own beliefs and thoughts. Thus I use the universal ideas that each religion shares. I continue to study religion and philosophy to continue furthering my knowledge and to create new thoughts and ideas when it comes to all things religion.

Now as far as the rest of my family goes, my parents have both essentially quit the Catholic church because of the way they treated my younger brothers when they were coming up through CCD. I truly hope it was not my own tribulations through the church that caused these supposed teachers to treat my brothers the way they did, but the fact remains, I am not Confirmed, and neither of my brothers will be unless they decided to later in life. This will apply to my daughter when she is born in a month or two, she will be baptized in the Catholic church to appease my parents and grandparents, but when she is old enough to make her own choices I will allow to choose if she wants to be confirmed, or if she wants to take the alternate path and find her own religion or thoughts that I have. I was afforded that capability, and I will do the same for her.

 

[X]

Well, some of our posters here have practically posted novels in this thread, so I'll try to keep this short and concise and focus soley on my own personal religious/spiritual beliefs.

I didn't grow up with any particularly strong Christian backround. As a child I went to church possibly half a dozen times at the most. My parents were ex-Hippies having grown up in the 60s, so it doesn't surprise me that religion was not a very big part of our lives. Which is a bit strange really considering that both my mother and father did infact hold some very spiritual beliefs when I started to get older and before my father's untimely death.

Because of this I had what I consider the privelage to be able to go out as I started getting older and discovering about religions and their beliefs for myself, instead of having them hammered into me at birth. Call me a pseudo-hipster if you will, but Eastern religions were always the ones that appealed to me the most. Part of this might have been my own fascination with my parent's hippie generation, which led me to the Buddhist poetry of men like Jack Kerouac and Allen Ginsberg. No other writer has had the effect on my life that Kerouac has, and it was his brilliant writing that led me to go and learn about Buddhism and Daoism for myself.

Though I considered myself a Buddhist for several years (I was heavily into meditation for a while), I've come to the conclusion that no religion is 100% perfect (though Buddhism and Daoism are damn close to it) and that I'd rather incorporate the truely noble truths from every religion, and leave out the bad. Why should I confine my beliefs to one specific movement? I think it's a bit presumptuous to think that one group could have it entirely right and that everyone else has it wrong.

So I take bits and pieces from Buddhism, Daoism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Islam in particular gets so much flack from people who understand so little about it. The name has been sullied forever by lunatics using the Qur'an as an excuse to incite violence and bring some twisted kind of importance to their lives, when the truth is that Islam in fact preaches against violence. I may be a white boy from Beantown, but it was Malcolm X's writings that turned me onto the true beautiful nature of Islam. Though, like Judaism, the religion gets far too obsessed with rituals and routines for my tastes.

On the topic of organized religion, I abhor it. It has caused far more death, pain and suffering then anything in human history, and what it gives back in return is not in any way worth it. Personal peace of mind, even for millions, isn't worth the millions of deaths religion (specifically Christianity, sorry guys) has caused. That's not to say people shouldn't celebrate their spirituality with eachother, because of course they should. But they should never assume they are the only one's who have the meaning of life figured out, and that anyone who follows a different religion is somehow inferior or not yet "blessed" with the knowledge that you are. This is what leads to things like the Crusades.

I'll wrap it up here by saying I highly recommend that any of you who have followed one specific religion all your life, do yourself a BIG favor and research/read into other religions. You should always try to expand your understanding of religion, and you should always look at an issue as large as religion from every perspective, and not just one single viewpoint.

 

[TwistofRKO]

That's not waht I'm saying. The problem with religion is the interpretations of it. It has the ability to turn a "casual conversation" into a bitter argument.

I feel I am doing Jesus' work by bringing it up when asked about it, and I prefer to practice His message by doing, rather than saying, for example accepting a homosexual or a minority into my fold. By befriending all people and being tolerant, I believe that is what Jesus called us to do.

Then what are you prioritizing?

God gives us a limited amount of time on this earth, and if you've accepted Jesus into your life there should be something in you that wants to express that to others. If you aren't going up to people initiating conversations, you should darn well be portraying a good testimony. It's one thing to be less vocal, but often times if one is unwilling to bring the topic up at all and express their faith, even on a message board, in my experiences that same person is far more likely to not portray the same testimony as one would had they been open with their faith.

Jesus called us to be open to other people, of course. The reason behind that was for the love he possessed for their souls. If you truly have placed your faith in something I see no reason to bury it. Is it really that more important to be accepted in places, and by people who (according to my faith) will fall short of Heaven and end up in Hell, just to be accepted for that short period of temporary friendship? What about them are you really caring about?

 

[HereComesThePain101]

Ok ever since Freedom of Religion came out there have been Atheist's. But for years before that there have been Christian's. Ever since that time they have always butted heads each time a different aggressor. You see Atheist's will call Christian's intolerant and Stupid while Christians will call Atheists Heathens or blasphemous people which brings me to my point. Do you think They will ever stop fighting. I mean im an Atheist but i believe in live and let live while i know there are many Christians like that there are still people of both sides which will keep fighting. So do you think they will ever stop or will there always be this hate between the two

 

[HBK-aholic]

Ok ever since Freedom of Religion came out there have been Atheist's. But for years before that there have been Christian's. Ever since that time they have always butted heads each time a different aggressor. You see Atheist's will call Christian's intolerant and Stupid while Christians will call Atheists Heathens or blasphemous people which brings me to my point. Do you think They will ever stop fighting. I mean im an Atheist but i believe in live and let live while i know there are many Christians like that there are still people of both sides which will keep fighting. So do you think they will ever stop or will there always be this hate between the two

I quite like this question. The amount of religious people in the West is decreasing, as shown by the decreasing numbers of those attending Church. I say religious people, and by that I mean the ones who go to a religious worship place, who read the bible, or who really act as if they believe it. Around 92% of Britain define themselves as part of the Christian religion, yet less than 10% go to Church. I think it's those who go to Church, in general, who have the problem with atheists. And I'm not saying all people who go to Church have a problem with atheists, I'm saying those that have a problem with atheism go to Church.

Now, that being said, if it stays this way, eventually the atheists will strongly outnumber the strong religious people. So, while I don't think the 'war' will ever be completely eradicated, it'll simmer down a lot due to the amount of people left on the religion side.

 

[Raw Power]

I don't believe in God really, and I was raised by a semi-religious parent and one who doesn't believe at all, but I was always encouraged just to go along to religious things to "see what it's all about", and now I'm older they don't lecture me on what to believe, which is good. Even my religious parent has the opinion that religion is ok as long as you don't "take it too far" which I have to agree with.

If a fundamentalist Christian believes, for example, all gay people are going to hell, let them believe it, it doesn't matter. It only becomes a problem when they start letting that belief affect the way they deal with the outside world. Of course it would be nice if no one held beliefs like that, but the fact is they do, and they have a right to. Just like you have a right to think their belief is dumb. Humanity is never going to agree unanimously on anything, especially when it comes to massive questions like religion, or the lack thereof - the best we can hope for is that such differences don't hurt people on a day to day basis.

 

[Worlds_Greatest_Booker]

Now, that being said, if it stays this way, eventually the atheists will strongly outnumber the strong religious people. So, while I don't think the 'war' will ever be completely eradicated, it'll simmer down a lot due to the amount of people left on the religion side.

that is something i have seen alot over the past couple of years that the atheists are now becoming bigger. i think its because we no longer live in a time where we would be killed if we didnt believe in god (in WW1 soliders were told if they didnt go over the top then they would not get into heaven). what made me laugh once was that i was out drinking with a few friends one night and i started to talkk to my christian friend about religionn when another girl over heard us and suddenly turned and said "you try to convert me and ill punch you in the face" (i think drink had a little to do with that but anyway).

and it is getting to the point now that clothes you wear cause of your religion are getting band on flights and in schools so im wondering how long it is gunna be before religion is band all together.

now as for me i may not believe in god but i have certain morales.

im gunna try my best not to kill anyone.
im gunna try my best not to rape anyone.
and im not into other men.

however i do have a feeling that im gunna be swearing, using his name in vain, drinking and participating in sex before marrige alot.

so overall im a good guy who will make mistakes in life so if that dont get me into "heaven" fine by me .

 

[HBK-aholic]

and it is getting to the point now that clothes you wear cause of your religion are getting band on flights and in schools so im wondering how long it is gunna be before religion is band all together.

I don't think the 2 are linked in any way. If you're speaking about the burqa, which I think you are, the banning of them in these situations is practical, and should definitely happen. Airports have been targeted by terrorists in the past and security is of the utmost importance. Allowing anyone, of any faith or race to be in this environment wearing something which covers a majority of the face and therefore makes them unrecognisable it stupid and unsafe. Religion shouldn't be used to allow it.

Regarding schools, again, it's incredibly difficult to understand what someone means when wearing a burqa, seeing as we use facial expressions to help us understand a person and their mood. In a school, teaching children, a teacher should have to show the whole face. Again, this isn't an attack at religion, it's simply practical. These 2 things in no way lead to your conclusion that religion will be banned.

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

well my take on religion is simple, its not about what you know or how devoted you are, its about learning from your experiences and becoming something more, your own path to enlightenment holds your own trials and tribulations and the fact that those who claim to believe in religion misuse it to their own benefits is part of our societies troubles, people keep challenging one another to prove whose religion is the best and attempt to hurt others in an attempt to prove their worth and make the others beliefs seem worthless.

From presidents and government officials to members of the church the fact is they all lack the one thing religion is supposed to teach us all... Faith in ourselves not just faith in symbols or others faith in ourselves, i myself have always used religion as a guideline to help me live my life, to support my children and care for those who have cared for me, to always be respectful no matter how ignorant i feel people are being and to develop an understanding for everyones beliefs no matter how i feel about them.

now down to business 9/11, i felt sick about that because those people who alleged they are muslims have never read the quran, it teaches the same as the bible dont kill or commit suicide and these idiots did both so please dont use the word islam and 9/11 together because that is an example of ignorance.

 

[Razor]

So. I'm not going to jump into 7 pages full of debate and what not. I missed that boat. However, I'll take the first poster's questions and answer them. I figure that's sufficiently on topic.

so what I am asking is do u believe in God.

Eh...in very Deistic way. God started whatever put the Big Bang into motion (which, from what I've heard, it won't be too long until we figure it out. My lifetime, hopefully) and put the basic laws of nature down. Then, he stepped away. Simple, really. I find it much more satisfying to believe that God is letting his children do their thing instead of thinking that this whole world is God smashing his toys together to see what breaks.

Of course, being Deist means I'm not a traditional Christian/Muslim/Jew/Hindu/what have you. It just means I believe in a God that started the world, but has no real stake in it. Heaven, if it exists, is for the good at heart. Hell, if it exists, is for the evil people who couldn't handle being on this Earth. That's why I like my religion. It reconciles my confusion as to how a great man like Gahndi wouldn't be allowed into Heaven simply because he's Buddhist. It handles all of the caveats that come up when dealing with the human soul.

EDIT: Gahndi's a Hindu. Silly me. Raw Power caught that one. Like he caught my hiccup in the Diablo 2/Halo tourney thread. He's always on my ass

do u find Religion a joke

Religion is a way for hope. Hope in times like these is imperative. And back in the early days of Judaism? Christianity? Islam? Hope was really all that kept the world together at the seams. So no, religion is not a joke. How some churches pervert the will of God (as they see it) for their own gains? Yes. Religion though, no.

do u find Evolution/Big Bang a joke

Why would I find this as a joke? It's how God created me. Well...not me exactly. The universe around me to be more precise. I've always found science as a way we use our natural thinking skills to understand what happened around us, what God did to start up the world. How could God not like that we want to understand?

And anyone who sees a conflict between Evolution and Religion is silly. In no way, shape or form does Evolution discount God or God discount Evolution. Just look at my religious belief. It completely melds God into my understanding of the universe. Score.

Please, no one ever say that "We aint no fucking apes" again. First of all, we're primates. We're basically no more than upright, smarter monkeys with opposable thumbs. Get over the thought that we're not animals. We are. Just smarter. Secondly, Evolution doesn't say we came from the ape out our local zoo. It says we shared a common ancestor. And wowdie doo, we found in the fossil record just that.

There. I think I handled that rather succinctly.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

I'm a christian and love God and the part he plays in my life but I like a few of you hate religon. Now, that might sound odd but let me explain.

I believe in what the Bible says and what God can do 100%, no doubt. But I find so many church's and "christians" being so judgemental and religous towards "non-believers" or "sinners" that it's over the top how bad it is. I won't go to church anymore because I don't get anything out of it, at least the ones near my home. I praise God in my own way wether it be praying every day or listening to some christian music. I dunno, as long as I am close with God and He knows where I am at then I am happy and confident in Him being happy with me.

I just can't stand it when other christians will look down on you and judge you because you might swear sometimes or you have died hair or you don't give enough back to the church. These people are religous wankers who find it hard to deal with their own sins so they will judge others. Anyways, I'm getting a bit off topic.

I find Christianity very easy to believe in because I've felt the presence of God in me at times I couldn't explain.... It was just there and I embraced it and have never looked back on God.

I find believing in the unknown much easier than believing in the rediculousness. Evolution is like getting a truck full of lego, tipping it upside down and all the blocks fall into a beautifully designed castle complete with turrets, toweres and gates... Not ever going to happen no matter how many times you tried. This world is perfect for the species living on it, the way oxygen works and the land feeds us. It's all to perfectly designed for this to happen by chance.

I don't mind if people believe in Evolution but I don't but I expect people to respect my beliefs if I am willing to accept theirs.