Religion 2.0

[chasingamy]

When it comes to religion, I can’t say there is or isn’t a God, divine plan, etc. I can’t say that any particular religion is right or wrong. I’m simply undecided on the matter. Yet I’m open and interested in learning WHY others believe what they do. I have far too many questions (I’ve included a few below) and too few answers and I feel there simply are no definitive answers.

• What is involved in witnessing to someone?

• Why does there have to be a “reason” for everything in this world?

• How does being saved make a person any less of a sinner?

• What makes a person choose one religion over another? How does one decide to believe in the Christian God, Allah, the Greek Gods, the Egyptian Gods, or rather to follow the Buddhist teachings?

 

[HBK-aholic]

Becca archived the first thread, so I am taking it upon myself to reopen the discussion.

I didn't. If you look back the religion thread is still there. I archived another thread about reilgion which wouldn't generate discussion, and made no sense.

I want to put my views across in a way that doesn't offend anyone, so please take nothing I say offensively, and if you are offended I apologise.

I aren't a religious person at all, in fact I'm very skeptical about it all. For a start, I don't believe in God which to me automatically means most religions are based on lies. That being said, what foundation can a society have if it was founded upon a lie?

I have no probelm, in general, with people who are religious. My idol is hugely religious, and it possibly saved his life. If religion helps someone in their life I see no problem with that. Shawn Michaels was addicted to painkillers and alchol, even thought about suicide. Yet religion, as well as his family, helped him through that.

Religion as a way of life can help people, as stated above. Some people like living by all these rukes of stuff they can and can't do. To me, it's unhealthy and something I could never do to myself. "Don't do this on a Sunday..Don't eat this... Don't wear this... Etc."

I hate things like that. It's a bad way to live if you ask me. Some people are happy with it, and fine. But personally I can't comprehend something that doesn't even exist telling you how to live your life.

Religious Education. Pisses me off majorly. Some people believe in God so I have to spend hours learning about him. I believe in UFO's, lets spend an hour learning about that, yeah? I believe Shawn Michaels is amazing, let's learn about him. See my point? It should not be compulsary in any way. I hate the fact it is. If you want to learn more about your religion that's fine, but don't make me.

Separation of Church and State. Technically it's what we have. But Church still interferes in the lives of so many people who don't even believe in the same things.

This is only the beginning, I'll add more later.

 

[Father:_Polley]

Why did you include ‘Gays’ and ‘Communists’ in your list of religious beliefs you tolerate? I don’t think I need to explain that one.

This girl obviously has a different set of ideals to you. There is no right or wrong. The fact that you claim to be pissed off by ‘novices’, in your opinion, in the field of spirituality, suggests that you are entirely ignorant, degree or no degree.
Wake up son. You might learn something.

I don't believe he said he was pissed off by her. I think it was the fact he expressed his views in a way that wasn't shoving his beliefs down someones throat, and was ignored and relgious speech was flung at him by the girl who ignored what he said in what seemed like a free discussion on the topic. He never suggested his degree made him better, he was just stating his background

as for including those groups...isn't it a commonly held view that all Christians hate gays? And communist for being a different system of thought.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'm back, but only to try and take this in an ever so slightly different direction.

I've noticed every time I go on a forum that Atheists and the like, including myself, apologise in advance for causing offense, yet I have never seen a religious person do so, at least to the best of my memory. Becca brought this up when she apologised in advance. I may well have too.

Why is that? Are my beliefs the least important, just because they're not religious? Why wouldn't it be understandable that I could take massive offense when I believe, as I do, to be devastatingly frank, that you are talking nothing more than utter nonsense? So what? Are my set of beliefs not important? I certainly find them very much so.

I'll also touch on something that irritates me - people claiming science is outright wrong and their beliefs are correct.

 

[Golden Standard]

Here is something that has something to do with religion. I heard and i know you people heard too proably, as alot of people have heard, that the mayans got paid a visit from the gods saying that in december 2012 the world will be destroyed?!?!?!? Their are 7 cycles right and they mayans 7 and final cycle runs out after december 2012. Now this has been reported on the news and not the internet so it must be somewhat true i guess i have no idea.

Now alot of people will say. And i quote ''well they said in 6/6/06 they said was gonna be the last day for us all but nothing happened'. That was in quotes of what people will proably say. Now they whole 6/6/06 thing was a joke because of the movie the omen that came out that shit was not foreal. But december 2012 could as i also heard the mayans have predicted mostly everything that has happened to us like floods, hurricanes including hurricane katrina.

 

[Sparky]

I'm back, but only to try and take this in an ever so slightly different direction.

You sound like a prisoner lol

I've noticed every time I go on a forum that Atheists and the like, including myself, apologise in advance for causing offense, yet I have never seen a religious person do so, at least to the best of my memory. Becca brought this up when she apologised in advance. I may well have too.

I never thought of that i think i might of apoligised as well. You are right If we do it People that are Religous should do the same IMO

Why is that? Are my beliefs the least important, just because they're not religious? Why wouldn't it be understandable that I could take massive offense when I believe, as I do, to be devastatingly frank, that you are talking nothing more than utter nonsense? So what? Are my set of beliefs not important? I certainly find them very much so.

I agree 100% Athiests have a right to speak there mind no matter what they are saying. Our Views are just as important as people that are catholic Jewish etc. Just becouse we dont have a church or anything and dont beliave in religioun doesnt mean we have to keep quite or Apoligise. Our voice needs to be heard as well. Me saying God isnt real does not and should not offend anybody. and if it does they need to grow up.

IMO the Bible is the Highest selling Fiction book ever sold. No i am not going to apoligise for saying that Becouse it is my Opinion.

 

[obsidiana]

Here is something that has something to do with religion. I heard and i know you people heard too proably, as alot of people have heard, that the mayans got paid a visit from the gods saying that in december 2012 the world will be destroyed?!?!?!? Their are 7 cycles right and they mayans 7 and final cycle runs out after december 2012. Now this has been reported on the news and not the internet so it must be somewhat true i guess i have no idea.

Now alot of people will say. And i quote ''well they said in 6/6/06 they said was gonna be the last day for us all but nothing happened'. That was in quotes of what people will proably say. Now they whole 6/6/06 thing was a joke because of the movie the omen that came out that shit was not foreal. But december 2012 could as i also heard the mayans have predicted mostly everything that has happened to us like floods, hurricanes including hurricane katrina.

The same is said about Nostradamus as well. If memory serves even though they Mayan calendar stopped at 2012 that didn't mean time would end then. That was (as far as some were concerned) as far as they had gotten in their calendar before they could continue. They may have stopped because they're own civilization ended before they could continue nobody is really clear. But don't take it as that is when the world is going to end. We could stop our calendar tomorrow but that doesn't mean the world is going to end.

As far as religion goes,I consider myself a Christian. Have I sinned? Yes I have, and I am probably going to hell just based off my fantasies about Luchadores down in Mexico alone lol. Nobody can tell what God is thinking or how he feels about the state this world currently is in. Christianity can be a tricky religion to be a part of. You have some people who don't try to push they're faith onto others and you have the zealots who think everyone is going to hell for ridiculous reasons (like having fantasies about Mexican Luchadores for example lol).

Personally I don't try to preach to people, I do know people who ar atheists, or wiccan, or whatever. If thats how they want to live fine that is they're choice. To be honest I could care less what others believe in as long as it doesn't affect me personally I don't care. Live life how you want just try not to kill people or anything lol. If people ask me questions about my faith then I try to answer them as honestly as possible.

 

[Golden Standard]

The same is said about Nostradamus as well. If memory serves even though they Mayan calendar stopped at 2012 that didn't mean time would end then. That was (as far as some were concerned) as far as they had gotten in their calendar before they could continue. They may have stopped because they're own civilization ended before they could continue nobody is really clear. But don't take it as that is when the world is going to end. We could stop our calendar tomorrow but that doesn't mean the world is going to end.

As far as religion goes,I consider myself a Christian. Have I sinned? Yes I have, and I am probably going to hell just based off my fantasies about Luchadores down in Mexico alone lol. Nobody can tell what God is thinking or how he feels about the state this world currently is in. Christianity can be a tricky religion to be a part of. You have some people who don't try to push they're faith onto others and you have the zealots who think everyone is going to hell for ridiculous reasons (like having fantasies about Mexican Luchadores for example lol).

Personally I don't try to preach to people, I do know people who ar atheists, or wiccan, or whatever. If thats how they want to live fine that is they're choice. To be honest I could care less what others believe in as long as it doesn't affect me personally I don't care. Live life how you want just try not to kill people or anything lol. If people ask me questions about my faith then I try to answer them as honestly as possible.

Hey don't worry i won't kill nobody unless its self defense though then its okay. Anway i'am a christian but i still have my doubts god is real at times and other times i beleive he is real. Although i'm thinking about not worry about religion no more and just live my life. I mean worrying about religion has done nothing so far but confuse me, make my hard hurt and you know what i mean by that, and make me sad and depressed a little bit. So i'm this close to forgetting about it. Well after high school i will completely cause see i go to catholic high school and i got two more years of it so it will be gone proably then. And also my grandparents force me to go to if i don't i will get introuble and i don't feel like getting yelled at. Its also unfair how parents force kids to go to church thats one place they should not force you to go to.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I'm back, but only to try and take this in an ever so slightly different direction.

I've noticed every time I go on a forum that Atheists and the like, including myself, apologise in advance for causing offense, yet I have never seen a religious person do so, at least to the best of my memory. Becca brought this up when she apologised in advance. I may well have too.

Why is that? Are my beliefs the least important, just because they're not religious? Why wouldn't it be understandable that I could take massive offense when I believe, as I do, to be devastatingly frank, that you are talking nothing more than utter nonsense? So what? Are my set of beliefs not important? I certainly find them very much so.

I'll also touch on something that irritates me - people claiming science is outright wrong and their beliefs are correct.

I agree with you. I apologise simply becauser if I don't, there's always at least one person who bitches so much about "racism" for some stupid reason, and everything else they can think about. To so many religious people I've been offensive for not believing in God. However when they constantly shut out the fact God may not exist, and just rubbish my beliefs that's not taken offensively.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Hey peeps...this is something I wrote in my blog. I thought it would be a good conversation stimulator...




I haven't blogged in a LONG time, so obviously...something has me in a foul mood.

For those of you who do not know, I have been spending my summer working at a "Christian" Book/Retail store. The current staff consists of me and the owner, so I am getting a crash course on how to run a business. That has been a beneficial experience to say the least.

However, throughout the summer I have come to see how these "Christian" publishing organizations push their products, often leaving me baffled. It would take me a few hours to count up all of the Bibles and various other materials that are being printed, bound, and/or manufactured in third-world countries. China, Korea, Haiti, Mexico...surely others.

Now, I am uncertain of the conditions of these workplaces in said countries. So, if workers there are being treated ethically and given fair wages, then I apologize to the greater "Christian" retail community. At the same time, knowing that many of these publishing companies are merely branches of bigger, secular, corporate publishers, seeing the listed nation of origin for many of these products is alarming.

This alarm went off at its highest level today when I was checking in items into the store's system. A stuffed dog puppet to be used as part of a Vacation Bible School curriculum called "God's Big Backyard", selling for $26.99 MSRP, sure enough had a big fat "Made in China" printed on the tag. Seriously? Vacation Bible School. Considering that this dog is a novelty item, I would bet my bottom dollar that this thing was manufactured in some sweat shop for dirt cheap, shipped off so that some middle-man gets a buttload of profit, and then shipped to our store by the publisher to us so that we can sell it at mark-up price.

This, along with the various other foreign made items being sold in "Christian" bookstores across the country, should call the consumer's ethics into question. What is the primary objective of the Christian retail business? Is it to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Or is it to make some hefty bank so that the publisher can pay off that vaction house in Aruba? By no means do I have an alternative to this situation, nor do I claim to be an authority on the matter, but it makes me think about what is happening to something that was once sacred. Nowadays, the term "Christian" is slapped onto pretty much everything. T-shirts, music, books, stores, schools, workout DVDs, and even freaking vitamins. Yes, VITAMINS. Does this give these items a greater sense of holiness? Or is it simply a marketing ploy to get people to think they are living more righteous lives by purchasing "Christian" labeled products?

I will be further investigating this matter, and I challenge you readers to do the same. Don't take it from me...just take this as a call to investigation.




What does everyone think about the topic of religious organizations and financial hypocrisy?

 

[Matt Phoenix]

Hey peeps...this is something I wrote in my blog. I thought it would be a good conversation stimulator...


What does everyone think about the topic of religious organizations and financial hypocrisy?

Sorry I deleted the middle bit for length shortening

Anyway to answer your question you need to look at it from two angles. Firstly you have your businesses with religious leanings and then you have the religions themselves (eg. Churches, temples themselves).

Firstly in regards to businesses, their sole aim IMO is to make money and some will do that it any way they can. Whether it be looking for the Christian dollar, the pink dollar or the female dollar for example. It is all about finding your target audience and promoting your good or service to them and if you arent in business to make money then what the hell are you doing there?

To highlight my point I will be using the South Park episode where Cartman decides to make a Christian Rock Band to get a platinum record or something, the reason he targeted them is because of the sheer number of Christians in the US and he realised the market potential. Is it right, define right. If there are people willing to part with their money for the product and it creates demand then yes, I do believe it is, as long as there arent any deceptive practices taking place than go your hardest.

In talking about the religions themselves, then it really is a debatable subject. Do religions need money, Yes. Do that need that much, probably not, but at the end of the day they do receive a vast amount of money from its attendees and followees helped in a large part by tax exempt status. Now they could use that money to help the world and try to solve the world's crisis' but on the whole I dont think that is where the money is heading. At the end of the day though if there are people willing to part with their money freely and they find relief or safety or anything positive in the particular religion then that money is probably worth it IMO.

Ok I have a couple of things I would like to ask the WZ community.

On the whole why is it that Catholics in particular bear the brunt of alot of the criticisms of religions?
I would like to highlight a particular case that happened in Oz.
On the Gold Coast a teenage guy was arrested for wearing a shirt that said "Jesus is a cu*t". Alot of comments I heard for for or against the shirts message but it was one particular comment that made me think and it went something like this
These days it is very easy to bash the Catholics because we know that they wont fight back, but I can be your ass that there is no fucking way he would ever wear a shirt that said Muhammad is a cu*t down the streets of the Gold Coast or Sydney
For some reason I think that this comments holds alot of merit, could you imagine the outcry if this were to happen. We all know about the comics a couple of years ago and how huge that became.

What do others think about this issue and do you think this argument carries any weight?
I have gone on so will save my other question for a later time

 

[HBK-aholic]

On the whole why is it that Catholics in particular bear the runt of alot of the criticisms of religions?

Personally I don't single out any particular religion, as I don't like, or believe in, religion at all. However I understand why some people single out Catholics. Or rather some parts of the religion. There are things I dislike in it. I mean, for a start it's the religion that will not change. Culture is changing and most other religions accept that but not Catholics.

The main reason I dislike the catholic religion is that it is looked down upon to use contraceptives such as a condom, yet they complain about teenage pregnancies and don't allow abortions.

Religion in general, to me, feels like it is just trying to force people what to do with their lives. And the Catholic denomination seems worst at this.

 

[Matt Phoenix]

Personally I don't single out any particular religion, as I don't like, or believe in, religion at all. However I understand why some people single out Catholics. Or rather some parts of the religion. There are things I dislike in it. I mean, for a start it's the religion that will not change. Culture is changing and most other religions accept that but not Catholics.

I totally agree with you on this one but I must also ask "Should they change?" and if so how far do the changes need to go?
Society is changing at an ever increasing rate, the world is alot different to 20, 10, 5 even 1 year ago and yes I also believe that Religions have often lagged behind. But in order for them to change they must then disregard the core centre of their beliefs, The Bible.

It could be deemed hypocritical of them to announce they are changing their belief system but then having a contradicting term, phrase or belief left in the bible due to the bible not being able to be changed. (I could be wrong, a long time since I attended school but I think there is a statement towards the end which says that if anyone changes a word or adds a word then they die, or go to hell. Could someone who knows please advise)

The main reason I dislike the catholic religion is that it is looked down upon to use contraceptives such as a condom, yet they complain about teenage pregnancies and don't allow abortions.

Whatever way you would like to look at people have sex. People have always had sex and will continue to do so and with the increase in STD's condoms have become one of the safer ways for two people to have sex with a decreased risk of transferring them and also as a way of preventing unwanted pregnancies.

I do feel that they really should allow for contraception to be deemed acceptable for the reasons we both have stated.

Religion in general, to me, feels like it is just trying to force people what to do with their lives. And the Catholic denomination seems worst at this.

I can agree with this one and I can relate, there are many catholics who believe I am already going to hell because of my homosexuality and that I need to change my wicked ways and repent and repent. But at the end of the day I never chose to be gay it has always been who I am and I feel that if there is indeed a God then this is exactly how I am meant to be. I was raised Catholic and stopped believing a long time ago and this was one of the reasons. I refuse to be around people who or choose to be lead by someone who will judge me before they know me.

Believe me I understand where you are coming from, but with all their faults and flaws they provide a great service to alot of people by giving them hope and a society where they can lean on each other and gain support with others, and if just one person feels better or more whole from their chosen religion then I support religions 100% just as long as they do not infringe on my rights or try to tell me how to live my life.

There are many lessons that people could learn from the basic principles from religions that I believe society is lacking in IMO, I still live my life according to two rules learnt from my days as a Catholic school attending youngster
"Do unto others as you want done unto you" and
"Honour thy mother and father"

 

[HBK-aholic]

I totally agree with you on this one but I must also ask "Should they change?" and if so how far do the changes need to go?
Society is changing at an ever increasing rate, the world is alot different to 20, 10, 5 even 1 year ago and yes I also believe that Religions have often lagged behind. But in order for them to change they must then disregard the core centre of their beliefs, The Bible.

It could be deemed hypocritical of them to announce they are changing their belief system but then having a contradicting term, phrase or belief left in the bible due to the bible not being able to be changed. (I could be wrong, a long time since I attended school but I think there is a statement towards the end which says that if anyone changes a word or adds a word then they die, or go to hell. Could someone who knows please advise)

The religion wouldn't be changing it's strong views etc. But society IS changing. People regularly have sx outside of marriages, couples live together before getting married. There will be other examples however the Catholic faith isn't one I know too much about.

The point is, it seems like it's holding certain people in society back. The people that believe in the Catholic religion, have no leeway to decide about things like that. It seems by saying no to contraception, it's automatically forcing people notto have sex before marriage, as the child would be looked down on.

Whatever way you would like to look at people have sex. People have always had sex and will continue to do so and with the increase in STD's condoms have become one of the safer ways for two people to have sex with a decreased risk of transferring them and also as a way of preventing unwanted pregnancies.

I do feel that they really should allow for contraception to be deemed acceptable for the reasons we both have stated.

I completely agree with this statement. Rep coming your way.

I can agree with this one and I can relate, there are many catholics who believe I am already going to hell because of my homosexuality and that I need to change my wicked ways and repent and repent. But at the end of the day I never chose to be gay it has always been who I am and I feel that if there is indeed a God then this is exactly how I am meant to be. I was raised Catholic and stopped believing a long time ago and this was one of the reasons. I refuse to be around people who or choose to be lead by someone who will judge me before they know me.

Amen! You have a really good way at looking at this. I also agree with everything you say here. I mean, in some religions, I aren't sure whether it'sCatholics, they believe if someone doesn't believe in God, or their religion that person automatically goes to hell. How in the world is hearing things like this going to make me want to believe in the God that is apparently so great.

Believe me I understand where you are coming from, but with all their faults and flaws they provide a great service to alot of people by giving them hope and a society where they can lean on each other and gain support with others, and if just one person feels better or more whole from their chosen religion then I support religions 100% just as long as they do not infringe on my rights or try to tell me how to live my life.

This is exactly the same way I feel about religion as well. I know people who have had their live changed completely by beginning to believe, or getting through things by belief in God. And everyone knows of how this helped Shawn Michaels. Therefore I will never have a problem with other people believing in God. But I don't like religion.

There are many lessons that people could learn from the basic principles from religions that I believe society is lacking in IMO, I still live my life according to two rules learnt from my days as a Catholic school attending youngster
"Do unto others as you want done unto you" and
"Honour thy mother and father"

Yeah. But I also don't think it's religion that should be teaching these. I mean, don't act awful to others, and respect your parents. I don't come from a religious background, and I know this. Never would I do either. It's not religion that needs to be teaching this, it should just be common sense.