Raven's Return...

[jccool420]

Raven was finally back on TV this week after weeks of absense... He rejoined EV2 and it looks like he's going to be in the match at BFG...

I thought it was really odd that after beating Dreamer at the HJ PPV, he made one minor appearance on Impact and then wasn't seen for weeks until last Thursday... I haven't heard anything about him being injured or anything like that... I know he is getting up there in age, but I think he should've been more involved in the EV2 storyline... I actually thought he could be part of the They angle because before HJ he was teaming with Abyss... But, it doesn't look likely...

What are your thoughts on Raven's return?

Why has he been absent?

 

[gd]

He's pretty much of a nonfactor, since he's the 2010 version of Raven. Do people care about him anymore? Not really. Him beating Dreamer at Hard Justice was extremely stupid, especially with them trying to make Dreamer look like a threat afterwards. That does work when people realize "Hey, this guy just lost to Raven."

Anyway, why did they bring him back? Because they needed another guy for the Lethal Lockdown match, I'd say. I guess it was supposed to be a big deal or something as well, but that didn't work since he's Raven.

 

[Genius_Deadman]

Raven's current look is what's killing him (plus he can't work anymore). he just looks bad and old. light hair, makeup, bleh.

i agree with General, they should've had Dreamer win that match if they wanted to have Dreamer as a threat/leader to this group. so the leader loses to a guy who's down the list in relevancy, Dreamer really was no one and now he's definitely not a credible character.

the problem with EV2.0 is the same problem that Raven has with this group, ECW was a cult following and popular, but they never really had a leader/face of the company. Dreamer was a jobber in ECW, Raven wasn't the big name. RVD was the most popular but certainly not "the guy". that's why Heyman was important to this because he could've carried this group as the mouthpiece.

back to Raven, he's washed up. just another body for a match. Sabu's better than him at this point, which tells you how far Raven's slipped.

 

[MacSquirrely]

(Repessing fanboy issues)

Raven, Scott Levy is better in the backstage. He's a hell of a good writer, he wrote some great storylines for the WWE and I think TNA knows that Raven is now a lot older, he's finding it harder to move around the ring and outside of his mindfuck promos he's past it now (personally, I think he should of been "they"- because he could of been a great voice (manager) for Abyss).

The reason for his win over Tommy is simple: Would the hardcore fans of ECW want it any other way? Raven ALWAYS beat Dreamer, it was apart of both their respected gimmicks. The best outcome with Raven in the Lockdown Match is for him to turn on EV2 and for Abyss to come to his side...

(I'm a massive fan of Raven, Had to say that)

 

[bookerman]

To all the nay-sayers above: I would like to note that Tommy has always said that he wanted to go his entire career without beating Raven. This didn't actually happen, however it does explain why he lost at HJ. It's a never ending feud and they wanted to keep it that way. Get over it!

And not to be completely off-topic, It's a damn shame TNA haven't found a way to use Raven in any capacity. He can still tell a story in the ring, whether you agree with it or not and he can still cut one hell of a promo. He is said to be very intelligent about the buisness and imho could be of great help backstage. I hope they do find something to do with him, but I'm not counting on it.

 

[mvalley]

Tommy Dreamer has always been the wrestler who has given all his heart in the match, yet couldn't quite make it. His win over Raven, much like his first ECW world title reign, was done out of necessity.

As for Raven, well, he has been around for fifteen years. Fifteen years of hardcore matches, amongst other things, will certainly take its toll on the body. However, people forget that Raven was a credible threat to the NWA / TNA world title in TNA's early years, and that he did hold the title for a few months a few years after his feud with Jarrett. So that, along with having been ECW champion, is quite a resume, and thereby gives him decent credentials if anything, to both beat Dreamer, and be apart of EV2.

 

[The Best At What I Do]

Like Professor Choas' #2 said, they just needed another man for the Lethal Lockdown match. There shouldn't even be a thread about this since TNA does it all the time. A guy disappears for well over a month and then shows back up as if nothing ever happened. Christopher Daniels, OJ, Eric Young, London Brawling, Rhino, the entire Knockout division minus The Beautiful People. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazing Red appears with the X-Division title at the next iMPACT! and they mention nothing of his absence (or how he even became the X-Division for that matter).

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I'm sorry, but Raven looks like a 78-year old woman. He's fat, slow, and looks to be a hell of a lot older than what he really is. Raven never beat around the bush about his love for the party-lifestyle, and I think it's caught up to him. I used to like Raven a lot during his ECW and WCW days, but now, he really has nothing left to offer (and that's unfortunate).

They needed another guy, plain and simple. But then again, TNA seems to like a lot of guys I don't, so who knows. Maybe they actually think Raven has a future...

 

[bookerman]

Tommy Dreamer has always been the wrestler who has given all his heart in the match, yet couldn't quite make it. His win over Raven, much like his first ECW world title reign, was done out of necessity.

As for Raven, well, he has been around for fifteen years. Fifteen years of hardcore matches, amongst other things, will certainly take its toll on the body. However, people forget that Raven was a credible threat to the NWA / TNA world title in TNA's early years, and that he did hold the title for a few months a few years after his feud with Jarrett. So that, along with having been ECW champion, is quite a resume, and thereby gives him decent credentials if anything, to both beat Dreamer, and be apart of EV2.

You're forgetting that HJ was a nostalgia show and nobody gave a rat's ass what Raven had done in TNA. Old ECW = Raven goes over Dreamer 99% of the time.

 

[TellMeWhy]

Tommy Dreamer has always been the wrestler who has given all his heart in the match, yet couldn't quite make it. His win over Raven, much like his first ECW world title reign, was done out of necessity.

As for Raven, well, he has been around for fifteen years. Fifteen years of hardcore matches, amongst other things, will certainly take its toll on the body. However, people forget that Raven was a credible threat to the NWA / TNA world title in TNA's early years, and that he did hold the title for a few months a few years after his feud with Jarrett. So that, along with having been ECW champion, is quite a resume, and thereby gives him decent credentials if anything, to both beat Dreamer, and be apart of EV2.

This is the best post in here. People here seem to don't know or forget about Raven's credentials. Raven was a 2x WORLD champion in TNA and a former champion in the original ECW. Raven is credible despite how he looks. In the world of prowrestling, almost every former world champion that remains on the active roster but isn't exactly main eventing always has a role. Raven should have a role in TNA regardless despite what you Raven naysayers may think. Undertaker can be more wrinkled than 2 senior citizens combined in a nursing home but because of what he's done in WWE, he'd still be a threat or have a major role in WWE regardless. Raven was never the athletic in shape looking guy. He wore shirts in his prime and looked like a bum in his prime. That is his gimmick. What makes Raven stand out as a character is his psychological wargames, his menace mentality, and his poetry style of promos. That is what makes him unique so I have no idea why people are talking about how he looks now as if that will make a difference. Raven can tell stories in the ring with his good inring psychology and can cut promos and can do plenty for TNA if given the proper role.

And btw, Dreamer can lose a million times so long as he is booked right, he will never be hurt. Even Y2J said the same exact thing.

 

[re93animator]

This is the best post in here. People here seem to don't know or forget about Raven's credentials. Raven was a 2x WORLD champion in TNA and a former champion in the original ECW.

Backwards. Raven was a 2x ECW champ and one time NWA/TNA.

Raven is credible despite how he looks. In the world of prowrestling, almost every former world champion that remains on the active roster but isn't exactly main eventing always has a role. Raven should have a role in TNA regardless despite what you Raven naysayers may think. Undertaker can be more wrinkled than 2 senior citizens combined in a nursing home but because of what he's done in WWE, he'd still be a threat or have a major role in WWE regardless. Raven was never the athletic in shape looking guy. He wore shirts in his prime and looked like a bum in his prime. That is his gimmick. What makes Raven stand out as a character is his psychological wargames, his menace mentality, and his poetry style of promos. That is what makes him unique so I have no idea why people are talking about how he looks now as if that will make a difference. Raven can tell stories in the ring with his good inring psychology and can cut promos and can do plenty for TNA if given the proper role.

And btw, Dreamer can lose a million times so long as he is booked right, he will never be hurt. Even Y2J said the same exact thing.

I sort of agree. Raven's certainly past his prime, but him and Dreamer put on the best match at HC Justice IMO. I still feel he can put on another decent match if he was carried properly. He'll always be remembered as one of ECW's top dogs, and I'd certainly rather see him on the EV2 team than say, Sandman.

And I don't know if it was shown on television, but after the first Fourtune/EV2 surprise beatdown, Raven and Dreamer shook hands. They may want to show that again if everyone starts wondering about the storyline's continuity.

 

[The Shockmaster]

I agree that Raven has the credentials to stay credible in TNA. I'm not saying he should be in the world title picture but should definitely be on screen and in a match every once and a while. The guy is above average on the microphone. If anything he would make a great manager/mouthpiece for any dark heel character(preferably Abyss). I would also love to see him lose a few pounds to and please for nostalgic purposes bring back the leather jacket.

Someone compared Raven to the Undertaker above me. Now lets not get ahead of our self's here. I get where you were going with the analogy but please Ravens name should never be mentioned in the same sentence as the Undertaker.

 

[perrywinkle]

The hatters are ******ed. I'm sorry if you weren't born before the 90s' but what TNA is doing makes a lot more sense than what you all give them credit for... their roster is huge, so naturally, they can't cram everyone on a single show every single week. THAT right there is your explanation as to why some guys disappear. They do, however, magically reappear when TNA has an idea for them or if they want to experiment and test the waters via fan reaction. If you take a second and think, you'll realize that this isn't magical at all. It's just trying to do the best with what you've got.

As far as Raven is concerned, I'm sorry but the promo he cut ONE week before HCJ was freakin' genius and enough to actually get the storyline going again. I literally had shivers going up and down my spine when he yelled out, "Those kids of yours Tommy, they should be mine!" That right there is how you cut a promo.

As far as his look. Jee, I'm sorry you kids are used to seeing the action-figure physique Vince McMahon has been jerking off to for the last x amount of years, but personally, I want a guy who can tell a story and I could care less whether or not I can lick the oil from his six-pack.

I will, however, agree that Raven and EV2.0 is just another body. But again, if you actually took the time to THINK, then you would have realized that the whole EV2.0 is NOT ECW! and not supposed to last past Bound for Glory. They exist only to put Fourtune over. This, to any wrestling fan beyond the age of 15 should be obvious by now...

 

[czar76]

have to agree with perrywinkle it's clear what is happening if u give it thought but few fans today know how to do that. Vince has done all the thinking for them. I agree that raven looks bad and should do something about the look but in the end what does it matter? Dusty roads was a fat mess and he sold out areans all over the world because of one thing, he could work.

the ev2 storyline should fade out after BFG, not saying it will but it should. And as stated before raven was added because they need to fill the spot. Not sure why everyone hates on ev2. they are good at what they do, put people over. I find it funny that most of the poepl who bash ev2 or ecw in general have no clue as to what ecw was. they know what they have read about or watched on youtube. ECW was never ment to be the best it was something different from wwf or wcw. much like tna is now. but what can we expect from fans that know little more about wrestling then the revised history wwe puts out.

Point is raven is there to fill space and ev2 is there to put people over, pretty simple for a real fan to figure out.

 

[Honkey_Kong]

I agree that Raven has the credentials to stay credible in TNA. I'm not saying he should be in the world title picture but should definitely be on screen and in a match every once and a while. The guy is above average on the microphone. If anything he would make a great manager/mouthpiece for any dark heel character(preferably Abyss). I would also love to see him lose a few pounds to and please for nostalgic purposes bring back the leather jacket.

Someone compared Raven to the Undertaker above me. Now lets not get ahead of our self's here. I get where you were going with the analogy but please Ravens name should never be mentioned in the same sentence as the Undertaker.

I will not argue abut how Raven is solid mouthpiece in wrestling. He is, but come on managing Abyss? James Mitchel was fantastic as the manager of Abyss and SHOULD be it now. Raven does need his flock back though. And I agree he still every now and then should wrestle, but he's no title contender himself.

 

[The Shockmaster]

I will not argue abut how Raven is solid mouthpiece in wrestling. He is, but come on managing Abyss? James Mitchel was fantastic as the manager of Abyss and SHOULD be it now. Raven does need his flock back though. And I agree he still every now and then should wrestle, but he's no title contender himself.

I really don't care if it was Abyss or anyone else. The only reason i suggested Abyss is because if he is going to be managing someone they just cant be your average heel. Raven is dark and philosophical and if in the manager role needs a person that could portray those characteristics . James Mitchel was great but isn't there anymore(atleast not yet anyway). Raven seems like a guy that could fill in for Mitchel and perhaps excel at it.

Ill cringe for a moment and make an analogy to my favorite wrestler Undertaker. Back in the day they used to cut promos with the Undertaker in the background building coffins and shit while Paul Bearer would say some crazy awesome shit. Maybe in some way Raven could recreate some of this magic with Abyss. Okay let me stop...undertaker, i am deeply sorry for comparing you to Abyss.

 

[twiztid jay]

Raven beating Tommy Dreamer at HardCore Justice was perfect, not only does dreamer want to lose, but Raven has always beat Tommy Dreamer, except for when Raven went to WCW and Tommy finally beat him, well why not have their fued keep going with Raven coming back with a win, and he there was no real beef there to begin with the whole Pay Per View was for fun and good memories of the old ECW.. Which I agree wasen't the best Pay Per View but I enjoyed it just seeing it for the memories..

And the reason Raven is added to the EV 2.0 mix is because Sandman no showed the impact shows, so therefore they had no one to replace him and had to go with Raven as there was no other to replace him at the time..

 

[Genius_Deadman]

You're forgetting that HJ was a nostalgia show and nobody gave a rat's ass what Raven had done in TNA. Old ECW = Raven goes over Dreamer 99% of the time.

a nostalgic show that Tommy Dreamer wrote, which should tell you about what Dreamer overall is.

you don't have to do do a nostalgic show with the obvious outcomes, just the same people and storylines. it doesn't matter what Dreamer wanted/wants, he needed to go over for the angle to work and right now, people care less than when they did. how can you expect to put over an angle, have Dreamer as leader, when he's not the strongest of the bunch? that's completely insane. Hardcore Justice was to remember ECW (even though i'd wanna forget that night), but it was supposed to transition the EV2.0 storyline to TNA, so it wasn't completely nostalgic. if Dreamer wants nostalgia, do an independent show with the guys, don't do it under a flagship that has no rights to the event or anything close to what they had there. it was completely idiotic and it killed the EV2.0 angle

 

[bookerman]

@Genious_Deadman. Let's agree to disagree. Genrally you're right, however in this case, we're talking about Dreamer. He's one of those guys who can get over by losing and is the typical underdog face. To me it was the right thing to do in this case and not go Rey Mysterio on the angle. As far a nostalgia show goes, it's just that - a nostalgia show. It isn't supposed to go anywhere, because no matter the outcome, fans are going to buy it to see those particular guys and matches and basicly everything they were used to seing back in the day.

 

[NWannabe]

I a few years, Raven should cannibalizr the Fourtune idea and make a new flock of wrestlers he sees actual potential in. The man is a write, a booker, but no longer a worker. Maybe I am talking out of fear of seeing a wrestler I like look sad and pitiful in the ring, but I think I'm right.

 

[J.Diesel]

I really enjoyed seeing Raven return. After watching the HardCore Justice PPV it seems he can still go in the ring. I think its mostly his look that is dragging him down. Like others have stated he has always had that grunge rocker look or bum appeal to him, but he just looks worse now days.

First the blonde hair has to go. It really brings out his aged face. And with years of brutal matches and im sure some drug use thrown in there his facial features make him look 80 years old in the face.

I wouldn't mind seeing Raven lead a stable of young talented guys. The Flock in WCW is one of my favorite stables from that era. But who would be a good fit to be in a group with Raven? The Serotonin stable in TNA wasn't anything special. And the Gathering was decent while it lasted. But lets not rush into any big stables until after this EV.2 group hopefully fades away.

As to where Raven has been, Im going to say he works a very light schedule. He may be at the tapings when Impact is being taped and he may not be used much because he is one of those guys that can lurk in the background of a group or not be shown at all and no one will make a big deal out of it. Fans are now used to Raven being shown here and there over the years that he has became a bit of an afterthought.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I love Raven, I always have, but he does look a mess nowadays. Obviously, he is well past his prime, and has alot of health issues (im sure its something that makes him put on weight really easily???), but he should just get rid of the blonde hair and get himself a tan, because he just looks ill at the moment. At least looking like the old Raven could make people feel like they arent watching a has-been. And KEEP THE LEATHER JACKET AND RIPPED JEANS

I am just glad to see Raven on TV again, he is THE MAN when it comes to promo's, there is noone that is better or can get me into an upcoming match quite like Raven.

He is just there to make up the numbers in this match though, but I could see him turning on Dreamer again during the match, if he is involved in the finish of the match, it will be to screw Dreamer one last time