Raven vs The Undertaker

[Soulblazed]

This feud sadly never had a chance to happen in the WWF...In 1998, Raven should've went back to the WWF and eventually had a high-profile feud with The Undertaker...Even though Vince despised Raven, I still think this feud could've produced quite a few matches between them...Both Taker and Raven would've cut good promos on each other and Raven could definitely have given Taker some memorable matches...Since Raven and Taker actually use psychology in their matches, the brutality easily would've been turned up..Imagine a Raven's Rules Match or a Casket Match between the two...One interesting parallel between the 2 of them is that Raven crucified Sandman while Taker crucified Austin, Stephanie, Mideon, etc

Raven's character was dark, brooding and cerebral...That definitely would've meshed with Taker's morbid persona and produced a great feud in the end if Vince would've given Raven a legit chance in the WWF

 

[closet_fan]

This feud sadly never had a chance to happen in the WWF...In 1998, Raven should've went back to the WWF and eventually had a high-profile feud with The Undertaker...Even though Vince despised Raven, I still think this feud could've produced quite a few matches between them...Both Taker and Raven would've cut good promos on each other and Raven could definitely have given Taker some memorable matches...Since Raven and Taker actually use psychology in their matches, the brutality easily would've been turned up..Imagine a Raven's Rules Match or a Casket Match between the two...One interesting parallel between the 2 of them is that Raven crucified Sandman while Taker crucified Austin, Stephanie, Mideon, etc

Raven's character was dark, brooding and cerebral...That definitely would've meshed with Taker's morbid persona and produced a great feud in the end if Vince would've given Raven a legit chance in the WWF

I loved Raven. He was one of the best on the mic. Maybe he was a bit one dimensional, but he had success everywhere he went. This would have been a great storyline. No one could get inside anyone's head more than Raven could. Not sure why he didn't stick around as much in the WWF. Unless Vince simply didn't want to pay him or he didn't want to push him.

It would have definitely worked in that era.

 

[wooooo]

I could possibly see him being part of the ministry but not feuding with Taker. I like Raven but I'm not sure how many people would have bought into Taker feuding with him compared to Austin, Kane etc.

 

[Christian Faith]

The quality is a bit poor but I believe this to be the only 1 on 1 match these pair ever had.

I get the feeling the WWE didn't think a lot of Raven

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-HZoPD9IJU

 

[joshmosh127]

while I do think Raven and Taker could have had a good match or two, I can't help but imagine if they threw mankind in the mix and had a series of triple threat matches. I'm almost foaming at the mouth thinking of what could happen with all three wrestlers in the ring. While Raven isn't the most technical wrestler, he sure can take some pain. And Taker knows how to dish it, while Mick Foley is just plain insane. I just crave to see what these 3 could have done in the ring

 

[MillionDollarMan]

Raven's best work was in ECW and against Tommy Dreamer. Now I know it was over the top, but the fight over Beulah was outstanding and when she revealed she was pregnant, that added a whole new level to the rivalry. Gotta give them all credit for that.

The only way Raven would've worked is if he was allowed to keep his edge and go over big names. Vince disliked him enough that I couldn't ever see that happen. It's too bad as I do think a Raven - Taker match would've sold with enough build. You could've had Raven's Flock keep attacking Taker for months before they had a match where the flock got involved. Then have a steel cage match with the flock climbing over the cage to get in. Then, finally have a Hell in a Cell match with Taker ultimately destroying Raven and ending the feud.

It would've made for good television at the time.

 

[brighamosity]

Raven was one of my favorite wrestlers of the Attitude Era. And although he failed to really get over in WWE, I especially liked most of his TNA run around 2004, around the time that he had his head shaved. If he had been in WWE in 2008 with his same gimmick from WWE, he could have easily fit into The Ministry of Darkness. I don't think I could see him being a credible opponent to Undertaker though.

 

[Firewall_Philip_Hanan]

Personally, I loved the DDP Vs Raven rilvalry because it was a hardworking man vs a guy who whined and complained and sent his posse after people. If Raven was in WWE in 1998, I would have had him fued with Gangrel, Edge, and Christian. Brood Vs The Flock would have be awesome if he could have brought over two Flock members. I would have brought over Kidman and Riggs. Imagine a Raven Vs Gangrel hardcore match and a Kidman and Riggs Vs Edge and Christian tag-team ladder match. That would have been pretty decent.

 

[UFOcalling]

I was a big fan of Raven's, when he wrestled for WCW (I hadn't heard of him before his WCW days). It's kind of strange when you think that WCW treated the guy better than WWF did. One could say that his career highlights happened in ECW, but to be honest I didn't watch ECW as much as the other two companies (WCW & WWF). Besides, during the times I did watch ECW, Raven wasn't with the company.

Raven vs. Undertaker could have been a decent feud, but WWF had too much going on at that time. They had The Corporation, DX and The Ministry at that time (with the Ministry eventually joining The Corporation). Another group (ie: Raven's Flock) would have just been too much, especially if you consider how similar a group led by Raven would have been to The Ministry. If Raven had been kept on his own, I feel that his character would have been placed with The Ministry - as one of The Undertaker's lackeys.

I don't think the WWF ever would have put such a feud together (Raven vs. Undertaker), for the simple fact that the characters were just too similar. Both are too dark and brooding to be faces, and I just don't feel that Raven was ever really welcome at WWF. Vince probably felt that Raven was just a "rip-off" (in a way) of his Undertaker character, and might have even pitched a gimmick change to Raven. I dunno, I just couldn't see this feud happening in WWF. Around that time, it would have been more likely to see this feud happen in WCW or ECW (if Undertaker had ever jumped ship to either company while Raven was on the roster). Just my two cents.

 

[UltimateHitman]

I think it would have been a good idea if they had actually invested in the Raven character/gimmick.

Raven used to be one of my favorites back in the day. There was just something about him that stuck out. The flock was pretty cool in its own right as well. I could definitely see that turning into a very interesting, very successful feud also.

It's a pity that Raven's WWE career went the way it did. That sort of thing seems to be a common theme throughout wrestling history. Vince McMahon, with his biases, dislikes, and ego has ruined quite a number of excellent possibilities throughout the years.

I do wish some things had went differently throughout the years every now and then.

 

[Lugar]

I would have had Raven come in and feud with Vinnie Mac over making him play Johnny Polo. He could have brought in various people given crap gimmicks (Terry Taylor, Mike Shaw, Paul Diamond etc) as cannon fodder before turning his attention to the worst gimmick ever created, a 7' undead zombie who burned his parents to death.

He could give promos refering to how he and the rest hated the gimmicks they were given and are now fighting as their true selves where as "Mark" hasn't the balls to be his own man

 

[blockanWo]

I love Raven. As a charachter he is one of the best in pro wrestling. Paul Heyman did a fantastic job setting Raven him up for decades of success and Raven executed perfectly.

While his best work was undoubtedly in ECW with Dreamer and I loved his early TNA work, I loved WCW's Raven's Flock idea. WWE should have ran with that idea when he came to WWE, a feud with the Brood and maybe the Ministry.

I agree with the OP, Raven and Undertaker wouldve been a fantastic fued. Both are fantastic ring psychologists. Raven is on a whole other level with the mic. Both can wrestle a similar brawler style. Both can bring out the weapons if the moment calls for it and both have a signature match.

Sure Undertaker was far more of a star, Raven in ECW and to a lesser extent WCW was huge. When he debuted in WWE, I think it was during that Tazz match. It was a huge pop. If Vince ran with him a little, it wouldnt have been a stretch to see Raven vs Taker in a Wrestlemania perhaps.

Hell they could have done a angle similar to the Saturn vs Raven fued in WCW where instead of Saturn wanting to disband the Flock, Raven wanted to take Undertakers band of misfits and make them his own.

 

[jmt225]

Everyone always talks about wanting to see an Undertaker vs. Sting feud more than anything else... but for me, my ultimate dream feuds were always Raven vs. Undertaker and Raven vs. Sting. I've always been extremely disappointed we never got neither.

Raven was an incredible character, and an incredible wrestler. People think he can only do the hardcore stuff, but if you watch his Scotty Flamingo or Scotty the Body days then you'll see he was quite the worker inside the ring. I'm positive if he worked with The Undertaker under the WWE banner, not only would the feud be amazing if written correctly, but the matches (both gimmick AND non-gimmick) would be just as incredible.

The best thing about Raven's character is that he has the power to manipulate anyone. And as strong as the Undertaker is, the character has a ton of skeletons in his closet, and Raven would be able to pick at those things better and more creatively than anyone else ever could. It would be amazing. He would make 'Taker love him first, until absolutely becoming the man 'Taker has never hated more.

Raven was just that kind of character, and as fan it was so much fun to witness because he portrayed it to perfection to the point where you actually bought Raven could really get into people's heads and make them his puppet. To see him do something like that to The Undertaker would have been glorious.

 

[Wolf Pac]

God I would've loved to have seen this feud, this could've been one of the greatest feuds ever if it ever took place. All the promos, matches & segments the two would have done together would've been fantastic.

I can think of many time periods where this feud could've happened. There's 2001 obviously -- I made a thread recently about the 'Who Ran Over Stone Cold' storyline in 2000 and mentioned that I would like to have seen Raven revealed as the culprit, so he could come in as a main eventer right away, and had that happened, we could've seen some amazing feuds like Raven vs. Austin, Raven vs. Rock, Raven vs. HHH, Raven vs. Taker. Actually Raven vs. Taker would've been great for the Invasion storyline. Maybe he could've been the one revealed as the stalker of Taker's wife instead of DDP, that storyline is more up his alley than DDP's, it ruined DDP's image but would've played right in with Raven's. There was a recent thread that The Brain made about Jake Roberts, where he was supposed to join the WWF's creative team in 92, and I mentioned that if he had, we could've seen Scott Levy stay with the WWF since Roberts was his mentor & he would've benefited from him being on the team, and we could've possibly seen the Raven gimmick debut in the WWF instead of in ECW. I think if that happened, we might have seen Raven feud with Taker somewhere in like 96, and maybe they would've him paired him up with Goldust & Mankind as a deadly alliance to try & take out the Deadman. There's 1999, where he could've jumped to the WWF, if WCW allowed him to as part of his release. I've always thought if they allowed him to, Raven could've come in, feuded with Taker right away, he could've stolen away some of his Ministry members from him to form him own Flock, so we could get a Flock vs. Ministry feud, then at Summerslam, we see him & Taker compete in a feud ending Hell In A Cell match, where the winner would get all the Ministry members, and Raven wins with the help of the Ministry members -- who betray Taker -- and Raven & the Flock/Ministry kayfabe injure Taker in the Cell to write him off TV until he comes back in 2000, where he would get his revenge on Raven.

Any time this could've happened would've been a pleasure for me to watch. I think the only reason it didn't happen was because Raven wasn't Vince's creation and he was an ECW guy, and you know how Vince loved to bury the competition in order to make his product look strong. Such a shame that Vince has this mentality.

 

[Radical Canadian Goose]

I remember growing up and yeah I was a bit nerdy and kept notes of a lot of things. When I saw this topics I had to look for the notes that I had kept. In this particular note it was entitled "dream triple threat matches" and it was between 4 of us friends and we each had to pick our dream matchups by picking one from each federation. We had 10 matches total that I will not elaborate on, but I picked Raven vs Taker vs Sting as a match. Whatever you can lose Sting, and I would still be happy. I loved Raven back in the 90s and thank you OP for this topic. Quoth the Squirrel nevermore

 

[BillAlfonso]

This is right up my alley, Raven has to be in the top 3 underrated wrestlers. I always said that Raven would've fit in beautifully back then. Taker is the greatest choice for Raven. Austin would likely lead back to a slight variation of his feud with The Sandman. The Rock would've been interesting as I don't remember Raven feuding with a guy with a gimmick like The Rock.

You could've had it where they were battling for the souls of the then WWF. I mean, think of all of the guys they weren't using and could've brought in to form Raven's stable. You could've had The Hardy join him from being jobbers to feud with Edge and Christian. You could've had him use Kane against Taker until Kane realized what he was doing and has to decide between Raven and his brother. You could've had him feud with Goldust and Mankind, it's so much to think about, it's crazy.

 

[HBKistheHOF]

I agree that could have been a great feud!!

I like the idea of Raven becoming part of the Ministry and then breaking away & trying to start a Ministry/Raven's Flock group & threatening Taker's domination. Then they could have had an all out battle with all the forces of darkness at their fingertips!

Could have worked great in that era!

 

[HBsam31]

No doubt this would have been an awesome feud. They way they could have done promos together would have been unreal. I think Raven if the feud happened and done well could have been one of Undertaker's greatest opponents. Raven is a character that could have actually got inside Taker's head. Also Raven was better in the ring that what people give him credit for. I remember watching him as Scotty Flamingo, and he was always having good tv matches over what ever the crusierweight title was called then in WCW. Correct me if I am wrong in the title, it may have been the TV title, but either way he was pretty good. Raven could have even been a Mania opponent for Taker. One of the possible great feuds that we didn't get to see.

 

[theBec2101]

I think the matches would have been good. At the time Undertaker was more brutal in the ring so to say. I also thing if they went for faction vs faction would of been great. I would of enjoyed the Flock then they get Kane kind of like what they did with Dreamers son turn of him in ECW. Plus as a faction they could get some size and be a better match up.

 

[Wolf Pac]

I think the matches would have been good. At the time Undertaker was more brutal in the ring so to say. I also thing if they went for faction vs faction would of been great. I would of enjoyed the Flock then they get Kane kind of like what they did with Dreamers son turn of him in ECW. Plus as a faction they could get some size and be a better match up.

I think you mean Sandman not Dreamer, and with Kane it wouldn't work cause Taker & Kane have feuded on & off again a bunch of times and Kane isn't a kid, so it wouldn't have the same effect & be as heartbreaking.

I've always thought a similar storyline could've easily worked with Raven & Taker in 2001 though, just minus the kid since Taker didn't have a child then. Going back to my idea of Raven being revealed as Sara's stalker -- as time goes on in the feud between Raven & Taker during the Invasion storyline, Raven could've brainwashed Sara and eventually she'd turn on Taker & join Raven by his side.

C'mon, you can't tell me that doesn't look like one evil bitch that could turn on her husband in a second?

 

[Wolf Pac]

I've always thought a similar storyline could've easily worked with Raven & Taker in 2001 though, just minus the kid since Taker didn't have a child then. Going back to my idea of Raven being revealed as Sara's stalker -- as time goes on in the feud between Raven & Taker during the Invasion storyline, Raven could've brainwashed Sara and eventually she'd turn on Taker & join Raven by his side.

I've just thought of a way for a child to be included and this would've actually made things even more heated & personal between Raven & Taker than Raven & Sandman in ECW, and that would've been to have Sara reveal that she was pregnant with Taker's child while she was now aligned with Raven, and that we she wouldn't allow Taker to have anything to do with the child & she will raise it with Raven. God, a storyline like that could've brought Taker down to his lowest point ever, something which we've never seen before and it would all be because of Raven and his sick twisted mind games & his power to manipulate anyone like jmt said. In the end though, it would just be revealed that Sara was faking it, Raven had put her up to it or that Raven forced her to abort it or something.

 

[original1316]

I would have loved to have seen a Raven vs Undertaker feud. Raven has always been better then what people give him credit for and a feud with the dead man could have shown how good he really was. But I would not have had Raven take on the Undertaker by himself. First off I would have had Raven reform the flock to help him take out the undertaker. Everyweek I would have had a different member of the group take on the Dead Man only to be taken out themselves leaving Raven by himself.

 

[god-soldier]

Raven vs Undertaker would have been the best feud for the WWE in 2001. If Raven would have been picked too be Sara's stalker the feud would have been great. Undertaker at the time was more of a human character at the time and Raven would have played the heel role well enough to make feud last with promos and in ring work. I agree with whoever said that Sara should have turned on Undertaker to make the feud even more interesting. Plus Raven being in the Alliance anyway it still would have made it work. Raven was a wasted talent in the WWE like so many other good wrestlers who come to the WWE with an already established name and get used as jobbers or treated like second class wrestlers. This feud would have been awesome yet another wasted opportunity by the WWE.

 

[Just Do It]

Steve Austin said in his book that the WWE brass dropped the ball in not running with Raven.

If Raven signed for WWF instead of WCW (although WCW did use him fairly well) I'd say his career would have been better off today.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

As much as i love Raven (my name is a big give away), he was never going to be anything more than a midcarder in WWE.

He had some good moments... He was really starting to get over with his PPV hardcore matches with Rhyno. And him being anti-RTC. And his WM17 match with Big Show and Kane was probably the height of how big he would get in WWE.

He got squashed by Taker on SmackDown. Squashed by Angle in the Alliance. Berated by Austin in the Alliance.. He became just a glorified jobber in WWE. Losing to Test regularly on RAW.

He could have at least been in the IC picture. Along with Benoit, Jericho, etc who he feuded with in WCW.

I thought WCW used him quite well. Some good matches/moments with Saturn, Kanyon, DDP, etc.