Pushed beyond their talent

[DaNewGuy]

Who, in wrestling, do you feel has been pushed furthest beyond their talent?

The obvious candidates are the monster heels, like The Great Khali, or Giant Gonzales. Then there are the other guys who got over purely on their look, like The Ultimate Warrior. There are even some guys who weren't pushed all that far, but that was still beyond their talent (does anyone even remember the Loch Ness Monster).

Personally I'd go with Khali. He is severely limited in the ring, his mic worl is hampered by the fact that very little of it can be understood by most fans, and yet despite this he was pushed to the world title, along the way destroying one of WWE's top babyfaces - The Undertaker. So, Khali is my pick, who's yours?

 

[Blade]

Ultimate Warrior wasn't pushed beyond his talent. He was over enough to be WWF champion. It doesn't matter how you do it, getting over is a talent, whether it's by in ring skills, charisma or "his look."

Who was pushed beyond their talent more than David Arquette? The guy was WCW, the second most prestigious title in wrestling at the time. He wasn't a wrestler and he wasn't a very good actor either. He didn't get a golden globe (which I think is the WCW title of acting....) and he was better at acting than he was at wrestling. So why did he get the WCW title...

If we're talking actual wrestlers, then I'm gonna say Carlito. He's been a US champion, an IC champion, he's held his own against Ric Flair and Triple H. He was the last man eliminated in the New Years Revolution 2006 elimination chamber, a match that also had Kurt Angle, Shawn Michaels and Kane. In fact, he eliminated Shawn Michaels. He was one half of the first unified tag team champions, something which (if the titles ever become prestigious again) we will be constantly reminded of, ala Jericho.
But he really doesn't deserve it. He's a decent midcard wrestler. But he doesn't deserve to have been in the ring with the likes of Triple H and John Cena. He has charisma and mic skills, but he's never been very over.

Oh, and he had kayfabe sex with Torrie Wilson.

 

[DaNewGuy]

I'll conceed to your superior knowledge on the Ultimate Warrior. I think my view of him was squewed by that 'Self-Destruction' DVD. I missed his run, but have since looked back at some of his work and wasn't too impressed, but I think my expectations were too high.

I agree with you about David Arquette. It's been a while since I've seen that, but I can't recall him taking a bump, or delivering an offensive move. As an actor, I'd at least expect him to be able to cut a promo, but all that springs to mind when I think of him talking is him talking to his wife about being the world champion, and that wasn't great.

As much as I like Carlito, I find it hard to fault your arguement. All I can offer was that his longevity in the elimination chamber was due primarily to his team with Chris Masters, who was being pushed quite heavily at the time, with his unbreakable Master Lock. Carlito is fun to watch, but he just doesn't feel like a Triple H/Ric Flair level guy.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Geez, this is an easy question. The answer is Lex Luger.

I liked Lex, I truly did. I was also a kid at the time. And Luger had a terrific physical presence, and tremendous strength. But that's really where it ended.

Luger was average on the mic, and often it was best if someone else did his talking for him. He was stiff in the ring, and didn't work a great match at all. He was so weak that he needed a "bionic elbow" storyline to make his finishing move credible.

And yet, he won the NWA Title, was a member of the Four Horsemen during a high time, then got to stand next to the likes of Dusty Rhodes, Magnum TA, and the Road Warriors in a feud with the Horsemen, and then got to follow Sting around. After that, he was handed the keys to the WWF after a weak heel feud, before being brought to the Intrepid via helicopter and dropped to bodyslam monster champ Yokozuna - the first sign of weakness he'd shown. Nobody cared. At all. Any of the times. Hart got the belt back and Luger's biggest events from there were showing up on Nitro, making Hogan tap to the Torture Rack one week on Nitro, and being in the room when Elizabeth Hulette died. OH, and the DWI.

 

[Spaceman Spif]

Carlito, He just rubs me the wrong way, he's got some good moves, two or three and the rest are crap, I feel he is sloppy in the ring, like he's lost. His mic work isn't that good to me, people just love the accent I guess. His attitude sucks so I really don't know why Vince even bothered to fight to keep him. He should have been released a long time ago and hopefully I think it is right around the corner.

The Brian Kendrick, everythin about him spelled failure to me, but yet he was still pushed, though it ended quite quickly. He's gone now and rightfully so, I didn't buy him as a legit what so ever.

I also agree with Luger, great look, had the all american thing going for, but that's all he was, hype, no real talent in the ring or on the mic. He was a hype machine who did not deserve the push he got.

 

[Kanye South]

Easy. Vladmir Kozlov.

I never saw what was so special about this guy. He is the luckiest guy in the WWE. He was put into a program with Triple H and Jeff Hardy for the WWE Title in his first year, but he shows no special skills. Big Show, Khali, Henry, all decent big men. If they won world titles, it would be believable. Not for Kozlov. Plus he's 37, so it's not like he was getting a Brock Lesnar push. And it saddens me that the WWE let go people like Mr. Kennedy and Elijah Burke, but they push this fool. He would have been perfect just to make other people look good, which he did somewhat in his matches with Triple H. But I fail to see how we can get Triple H vs. Kozlov, but we can't get Triple H vs. Undertaker/Big Show/MVP (I'm talking about last year, I know Undertaker is taking time off and MVP and Big Show are on Raw). They made Khali a joke, but yet they push Kozlov. I'm not one to blindly hate everything that the WWE and Vince does, but Vladmir Kozlov was a big "Fuck You" to the other workers that deserved the push.

 

[stryfe604]

Very Simple Batista.

Do I really need to elaborate here? But in Case I do i will make some quick points.

1) He's Horrible on the mic
2) He's Horrible in the ring

All he had going for him was looks, but with his shaved head, gay tattoos, and the earring he looks like the cover boy for steroid *** love magazine (made up but sounds like it fits well)

Batista is a giant piece of shit that screams and points his fingers in the ring, and does a spine buster, a power bomb and then gets injured and sits out for a few months so he can do two more.

At least with the Warrior you got some of the funniest promo's ever conceived by mankind. and with Carlito you got decent mic work and better than average ring skills.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Very Simple Batista.

Do I really need to elaborate here? But in Case I do i will make some quick points.

1) He's Horrible on the mic
2) He's Horrible in the ring

All he had going for him was looks, but with his shaved head, gay tattoos, and the earring he looks like the cover boy for steroid *** love magazine (made up but sounds like it fits well)

Batista is a giant piece of shit that screams and points his fingers in the ring, and does a spine buster, a power bomb and then gets injured and sits out for a few months so he can do two more.

At least with the Warrior you got some of the funniest promo's ever conceived by mankind. and with Carlito you got decent mic work and better than average ring skills.

Please elaborate how he is horrible in the ring and on the mic. His mic skills are decent for somebody who doesn't need to talk much and he is decent in the ring. Injuries happen to everybody and Batista is no different.

I'm going to agree with some and say Carlito. I never looked at the guy as a serious threat to a world title. True he did beat John Cena twice but those are his only top notch wins. He could be on the track to the top if he didn't whine and complain so much. Carlito is midcard at best and I think that is about as far as he will be pushed unless due to injuries or something else.

 

[AzLunchbox]

wow. I'm surprised noone said this one yet.

One simple line got him on wrestlemania for christs stakes!!!

"I AM THE BOOGEYMAN...and I'm....COMING TO GETCHA!!!!!"

The man had ZERO ring talent yet was put over Booker T JBL and many others for some reason!

 

[TheOneBigWill]

If I said Hulk Hogan, how many people would shit bricks? I'm willing to bet a lot.

But truth is, thats the truth. Hulk Hogan is one of the biggest names in the Wrestling Industry, and the guy was the bare minimum of skill and talent. He got by off of being a character through his look, (like a Lex Luger or Ultimate Warrior) his mic skills, (like a Warrior, or Raven) and contributed loads through merch. and being marketable.. yet the guy wasn't exactly the most technically sound Wrestler in the world.

He did the bare minimum in the ring, most of his matches were If you've seen one, you've seen them all. And when it came right down to it, he finished people off with fairy tale "no selling" by way of just taking the top amount of punishment and acting like it did nothing, only to follow up with a big boot to the face and a (in his day) quick leg drop for the 3-count.

Guys back during that time, like a Terry Funk, Randy Savage, or a Ric Flair, contributed more to their matches by way of actual Wrestling than Hulk Hogan did. Hogan would hit a body slam or two. He'd throw a hip toss out there from time to time, but what did he truly do, that warranted him being the biggest "talent" in the Business?

No, his in-ring abilities were shit. It was who he was as a character, and the persona he played that carried him. Hell, even his mic work was sub-par to what people wanna fantasize over. People jump the Warrior for being out-there in his promos, but Hogan was overly repetitive. It was always constantly, "Well ya know what brother" this, and "take your vitamins, say your prayers" that. How is that great mic work? Its just some overly sized guy getting pumped up about brothers and drugs. So, by a similar token that Irish uses Lex Luger, I'm using Hulk Hogan. He got over off his look - not his actual in-ring talent.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

As if this wasnt blatantly obvious.

Mr.Kennedy. Put in so many high profile programs, angles, everything, to fuck it up time and time again. Completely clueless in the ring, and at times even bacame a liability, badly injuring one world champion, and coming close to injuring another. Before getting injured himself, yet again. Put on, 2? maybe 3 good matches...ever? Yet pushed to the moon, because he had a bit of charisma.


Fired shortly after being yet again thrown into the mix at the top of the card, without doing one single thing to warrant it.

 

[Tenta]

No, his in-ring abilities were shit. It was who he was as a character, and the persona he played that carried him. Hell, even his mic work was sub-par to what people wanna fantasize over. People jump the Warrior for being out-there in his promos, but Hogan was overly repetitive. It was always constantly, "Well ya know what brother" this, and "take your vitamins, say your prayers" that. How is that great mic work? Its just some overly sized guy getting pumped up about brothers and drugs. So, by a similar token that Irish uses Lex Luger, I'm using Hulk Hogan. He got over off his look - not his actual in-ring talent.

I won't shit bricks, exactly, because I see the line of argument here with this. I heavily disagree, however, with both qualifications of what you have said, man.

For his in ring work, we have to accept the fact that The Hulkster wouldn't do nearly as much in White Plains, New York, as the guy would perform in Madison Square Garden. The guy employed a tactic of preserving himself, knowing that he wouldn't have to throw out too much to get a strong reaction. Just because the guy didn't throw them out every five seconds doesn't mean the guy wasn't capable of putting on stellar matches.

The guy was trained by Hiro Matsuda. This is the same guy that had a hand in training wrestlers such Muta, Flair, Orndorff, Simmons, and yes, admittedly, Luger. Still, the guy was as strict as they came, and ruled over his students with an iron fist. You mean to tell me a guy trained by the same guy that trained Flair and Muta is limited? Perhaps he's limited in the way that he wouldn't allow himself much to perform many moves outside his typical moveset, but the guy surely knew the moves. It's not as if the guy was lacking in technical skill, as perhaps one could argue by Khali. The fact is, Matsuda wouldn't graduate a student unless he felt that he was completely ready to step outside his wing, and perform all of the moves he instructed of his pupils. You want to see a Hogan that's far more technically sound than you give him credit for, you say? Well, watch a match of Hogan from Japan. That should do the trick for you. How about a match from 1984, between Hulk and Antonio Inoki. It's a bit long... Hope you have time...

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Simply enough, the guy had the moves... It just behooved him not to use them. And seriously, Will, can you fault the guy for being smart, and preserving himself a bit, when he knows he's going to get a huge reaction?

As for promos, again, I disagree. He went to his bread and butter. Flair did it. Dusty did it, too. The only person who'd I say didn't repeat himself too often in promos was Terry Funk. Hogan knew what to highlight, and what to say that were his trademarks. What's so bad about that? The guy can cut diversified promos. Proof? How about his promos from his days as "Hollywood" Hogan?

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The guy didn't have to repeat himself, it just behooved the guy to do so. It was his trademark.

Look, I'm not trying to say that Hulk wasn't a bit limited. But when compared to a guy like Warrior, Hogan looks like fucking Inoki. The guy was simply smart... There's a difference between "smart" and "limited"

 

[SavageTaker]

I’m going to have to go with The Miz. Seriously, this guy is pushed and praise so much yet I haven’t seen him show much or any of his “talent”. I haven’t seen one match were I was totally impressed by him and his talent. He had good matches with Cena, but they didn’t make me say “Wow this guy has some serious talent.” All those matches did was give him some credibility but they didn’t show any of his “talent”. The only good thing I’ve liked about him is his mic skills (even though I prefer some other wrestlers mic skills over his) and nothing more. He was pushed as a tag-team with John Morrison, yet I didn’t see Miz as the talented one of the two because he didn’t show he it. Then they break up and he moves on to a feud with Cena. Another thing I feel he didn’t deserve to get. I’m all for having mid-carders feud with main-eventers to give them credibility, but only when they have shown they have talent and that they deserve it. But Miz hasn't even proven himself to be a good mid-carder and he is given a feud with Cena immediately. I haven’t seen anything from Miz that shows he has lots of talent and deserve the pushes he has gotten yet he is pushed and people claim he should have defeated Cena. Talk about some WFT statements. I will admit he has improved since his debut, but I still don’t see the “talent” and I feel he has been pushed beyond it.