Prisons: Reforming the Criminals?

[#hamler]

After watching an episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, I started to spawn up an idea for a Cigar Lounge thread. In this episode, a guy who was recently released after serving 15+ years in Solitary Confinement, feared returning to jail. When he was accused of a sexual related murder, he was tried in court. The defense used the argument which accused Solitary Confinement of being Cruel and Unusual. The punishement which we are protected by under 8th admendment. This thread isn't so much about this, but about whether Prisons can keep criminals out after they are released.

Without understanding the psycological effects of a prison on an individual, people and the public endorse the idea of prisons punishing criminals. Prisons were designed to take away the liberty and to punish criminals that inhabbit them. Whether we want Prisons to reform, educate, or make useful citizens out of the inmates, it's totally up to you. Let me propose the question before I give you the rest of my opening post. Do Prisons reform criminals? Read both arguments before giving your opinion on the matter.

Once a Criminal, always a Criminal

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, of the 272,11 nmates released from prisons in 15 states in 1994, an estimated 67.5% were re-arrested within 3 years. Most Prisons are a place of brutality. Inmates live in a world of violence. A lot of the first-time petty criminals and drug addicts are tossed in with the hellacious murderers and rapists. Whether or not they were violent to begin with, they must become violent to survive. And when one of these criminals spend anywhere form a year to five years are released, they turn into more well rounded, smarter, hardended human beings.

I found out how people earn respect in here, you have to beat someone or shank them.

Criminals Go Straight.

There are the less violent and aggressive criminals out there. Criminals that aren't child molesters, rapist, or cold booded killers. When these types of criminal actually go to prison, the time spent there does help to reform the criminal because when that person returns to society, they have to start from square one and try to rebuild their lives. But now they have a weight on their shoulders, a burden to bear, and to avoid adding to that burden they will usually stay clear of the people and/or activities that landed them in jail in the first place. Prison serves as a constant source of humiliation for the 'softer' criminal. Thus, any criminal wouldn't want to return to such of a life.

Questions

Do Prisons help reform criminals?

Your thoughts?

Discuss this shit.

 

[lenguy]

I never thought the idea of a prison was a great way of "reforming" criminals. The thought of taking a bunch of criminals and throwing them all together in the same building just seems counter productive to me. All there doing is serving time until they are eventually released. Its what goes down during this time that really builds on prison life. Its has you say, prison is like a jungle and you must adapt and succumb to prison life in order to not just serve your time but try to stay alive in the process. Take a bunch of convicts and throw them together and this is what you get, a breeding ground for more violence. If anything people learn and find new ways to be even more violent. It can even take small time offenders and turn them into hardened criminals for life.

Gangs are huge in prisons and play a big part in the social standings in there. Most must feel they have to join a gang for protection and this can translate to a life outside of prison as well. Its really a backwards regime the prison system is. As you pointed out, a majority of inmates after they are released will only be back within a matter of months, because the prison habit is often difficult to break once they are released since being exposed to it for such a long period of time. Most find difficulties in locating a decent job because they have a strong criminal record on their backs and then most resort to going back to the life of a criminal just to make ends meat. Prisons these days have become way to over crowded and when you put that many people together you have a strong possibility that something can go down. Most inmates know how the prison system works because they have been in and out there whole lives,they know how to get around things and prisons are only getting more and more unpredictable and dangerous because of this.

I will note that a lot of prisons these days offer and educational reform where inmates can learn the essential skills needed for regular life and earn degrees which they can take to the real world when they are released. Despite this most still end up back in prison because they have become accustom to it and many feel more comfortable in the prison life because they have difficulties adjusting to the life outside of prison. This is where the justice system needs to be seriously looked at because I don't think its doing anything but creating a breeding ground for more criminals.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I've been a corrections officer for almost 7 years now and there simply is no clear cut answer to this particular question.

For some people, spending time in jail or in prison can do wonders for them. When you've got nothing left but all the time in the world to think about how you fucked your life up, it can be the most theraputic thing in the world sometimes. I had a cousin that spent nearly 3 years in prison for burglary and it straightened him out. He severed ties with people that were bad influences on him, he got himself a job, he volunteers in some of these prison based programs sometimes, etc. and he's been out for almost 5 years now. As someone that's seen a lot of people come and go through the facility where I work, I can safely say that the "once a crook, always a crook" way of thinking just isn't true at all. It's true that there are repeat offenders that've come through my house, meaning my facility, and there are some that been released for years and have stayed out.

One reason why violence sometimes breaks out in prison is because of overcrowding. I think a huge cause for it involves housing criminals that are convicted for nonviolent offenses. I would say that at least 50% of my house's inmate population is made up of drug convictions, the vast majority of which are nonviolent. The government's approach to dealing with drugs just isn't working. We're no closer to winning the so called war on drugs now than we were 30 years ago and we flush tons of cash down the tubes in the process. I was watching CNN sometime last year, I can't exactly remember, when, but I do remember the reporter saying that the United States spent $50 billion on the war on drugs in 2009. I dunno how much we spent last year but I'm willing to bet that the figure is in the same ball park as 2009. I'm not saying to legalize stuff like heroin or cocaine, but how people convicted of nonviolent offenses, especially drug offenses, needs to be changed in my opinion.

Some people can change, some people can't and some people just plain don't want to. That's generally the three types of criminals that I've dealt with during my time as a C.O. It's the ones that don't want to that are generally the biggest headaches.

Historically speaking, prisons in the United States have been geared more towards punishment rather than rehabilitation. That really started to change after the Attica Prison riot back in September of 1971. Before then, in most prisons, inmates were kept in their cells 22 hours a day, the cells were poorly ventilated, prisoners were only allowed one extra change of clothes a week, only took one or two showers a week, etc. Not all prisons operated in the same way as Attica, but it was pretty standard. These days, I think that prisons are geared more towards rehabilitation rather than punishment. Shit, some of the inmates in my house live better in here than they did out in the world.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I had a cousin that spent nearly 3 years in prison for burglary and it straightened him out. He severed ties with people that were bad influences on him, he got himself a job, he volunteers in some of these prison based programs....

See, that's a cogent answer to the original question posed in this thread: Does prison reform people? In your cousin's case, prison didn't reform him; he did that himself.....and that's the only way true reformation can take place.

Historically speaking, prisons in the United States have been geared more towards punishment rather than rehabilitation.

That's what I always figured. I have no idea whether the things we see in the movies and TV take place in real life: i.e., gang-rapes in the laundry room with guards bribed to look the other way, etc. I always figured the purpose of prison is segregate the offender from society so he can't do whatever he did to get in there in the first place.

Taking away a person's freedom might be the most severe punishment imposed on a human being; we don't appreciate our personal freedom until it's taken away from us. As law-abiding citizens, we can't imagine what it would be like to not leave our houses to take a walk or go out to eat. Sounds like nothing, right? If you really believe it's nothing, go to jail and find out for yourself.

The idea is to make prison a place you don't want to come back to. To accomplish that, you have to not break the law. If being locked in a cell is your idea of bliss, then there's no reason to fear jail.

It isn't brain-washing or torture (at least we hope not).... it's creating a learned behavior. Prison doesn't reform you; it merely creates a circumstance that allows you to reform yourself. If you don't want to go back to the slammer, don't do crimes that can get you there.

 

[Sparky]

Wait, people go to prison to be rehabilitated? not in Australia, they go to get punished. they do their time and get sent straight back out on the streets. Maybe a small 10% of prisoners will never go back, IE get scared enough to not do anything wrong, but the rest or either repeat offenders or lifers. Most people that have nothing going for them before they get sent to jail, find out just how easy it is in jail, free clothing, power, food accommodation ect and do stuff to get put back in there. I don't think that prison changes people for the better, it just stuffs them up more. with the stress, the fear and shit. after you get out of jail, you can pretty much kiss your chances of getting any kind of decent career out the window.

 

[Xemmy]

Do Prisons help reform criminals?
Perhaps they do help. But it's not the best way too. Prisons in America aren't meant to reform criminals. They're meant to punish. Criminals have to take the initiative themselves most of the time. Sparky summerized Aussy's prison system and it sounds alot like Americas. Prisons don't reform criminals these days. Fear does, if we're lucky. And that's certainly not the best way to do it. But it doesn't matter. We Americans love that bloody vengence.

Your thoughts?
We have the largest prison population in the world. We have an entire percent of our population locked away. Many of them are in prison for something that shouldn't be a crime- and that's taking drugs. That just shows you how free we are. "You can't put THAT into your body!"

The point is when you bloat your prison system, things get bad. Poverty and Over Population are leading causes of crime rate going up- So what happens when you sardine thousands of people together that have just had virtually everything taken away from them? You get more crime. Rape, Theft, and Murder all sky rocket under these conditions. Much of which goes unreported. Guys that spend their years under those conditions have trouble reforming when it becomes a way of life.

Solve it by making drugs legal, or de-criminalized. Then add more reform programs in the prisons.

 

[The Big Gunnzbowski]

I think this is a broader topic that calls for more than just "Yes or No" answers...

There's too many variables involved to come up with a definitive answer to the question.
Some people spend so much time in prison, they become "institutionalized". They become an integral part in the system they're in. They learn to sleep, eat, breathe this system. Eventually, it's all they know. The thought of leaving prison scares them. In prison, they have a job, a place to sleep, 3 Square meals... It's a society in itself. Why would someone who's grown comfortable and content with this lifestyle, want it thrown into upheaval by being thrown into uncertainty? Who's gonna hire a felon? Where will they live? How will they get by? Lets face it... Prison release programs aren't the best programs in the world...

It is my personal opinion that courts skate by on way too much of the same. Sentences are too general, I think. A minimum sentence of X years may not be the best form of punishment for first time offender Joe, but may be exactly what repeat offender John needs. Prison may not be a good option for the guy who had a tough break. You know what I mean? The justice system is just too far broken to be fixed and it's a sad reality that reform isn't even a priority for most criminals that are a part of "The System"...

So, to answer your question... "Do prisons help reform Criminals?"
Yes...and No.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

See, that's a cogent answer to the original question posed in this thread: Does prison reform people? In your cousin's case, prison didn't reform him; he did that himself.....and that's the only way true reformation can take place.

But could he have done it himself without first having been sent to prison? I'm not sure because he was pretty wild back in his day. He was impulsive, often did things just to see what sort of reaction he might get, never gave any thoughts about the consequences or what tomorrow might hold, etc. In prison, all of his fun and wild times were over. All he had left was all the time in the world to think about things and actually, for once, consider his future and what it was going to be like if he didn't change. In prison, he used the programs available to better himself, talked with former prisoners that'd made it on the outside, even talked to prison guards for advice and ideas they might've had. Left to his own devices out in the world without prison ever having played a role in his life, I don't think he'd have been able to do it. Of course you're the one that ultimately has to make the decision, that's true with anything. But without his stretch, I don't believe he'd have had the intelligence, perspective and certainly not the willpower.

That's what I always figured. I have no idea whether the things we see in the movies and TV take place in real life: i.e., gang-rapes in the laundry room with guards bribed to look the other way, etc. I always figured the purpose of prison is segregate the offender from society so he can't do whatever he did to get in there in the first place.

Movies and television exaggerate about most things in life and how prison life is portrayed is no exception. Fights don't break out at the drop of a hat seemingly every day, the guards don't all behave like they're a combination of Dirty Harry and Rambo, we don't have gang rapes in the shower, etc. Oh sure, we do have our problems and they'll rear their heads sometimes. Television makes it look far worse than it actually is. For instance, prison guards go around abusing prisoners or talking like they're king shit usually don't last long. That's the kind of person that can get a situation started that could land every guard in the place in all kinds of hell. Most of the time, if you respect the inmates they'll respect you. You have to be firm, but fair and not abuse the authority you've got. If something extremely heavy was to go down, such as a riot for instance, we'd lock the place down and get into the control area and call the police, maybe even the National Guard unit if necessary. After all, 50 guys armed with mace and nightsticks or batons against 1,500 pissed off inmates don't have much of a chance.

 

[Calderownz]

Questions

Do Prisons help reform criminals?

Your thoughts?

Discuss this shit.

No. Prisons do not help criminals reform. Reform, by definition, is simply trying to straighten someone out to their original form. Prison simply CAN'T do that.

They might attempt to in certain ways, it's simply not something that's going to happen. From all the accounts I've had of prison, it changes you. As a person, you are virtually never the same. You might be a better person, but in general, you're a far different person.

And not in such great ways.

In terms of whether or not they will repeat offend, that's a trickier subject. The bigger that first crime is, the more likely you are to mess up in the future. Not even because of the type of person you are. Simply because even when you get out of prison, you're bound to have a longer probation. The longer you are going to be watched, the more likely you are to be caught fucking up.

Think about your lives. If you were closely monitored, regardless of if you're on probation or have ever been arrested. Chances are, we've all done SOMETHING that could be considered breaking the law. Driving after tipping a couple back. Smoking weed. Not going to work when we've had to.

Nothing TOO major if done relatively responsible (aside from the driving while intoxicated.) However, all of those things send you back to prison for the duration of your sentencing.

Still, free will and you make your own choices.

Nonetheless, it's very difficult to get out of "the system." The reason? Prison is built to be that way. Prison is big business. It's privately owned. They want you in prison. Especially if you're a young male. Once you're caught, they don't want you to succeed.

On a small level, I'm sure the guards might. Probation officers might. But, as a business, it wants you to fail.

Their actions speak louder than I ever could. Outrageous penalties for minor offenses. Choosing the death penalty when all other parties involved are fine with life in prison. Big contracts with corporations to make uniforms and working tools.

All of these things allow the prison to make money. (The death penalty costs more money than someone staying in prison for life, most statistics have shown.)

They treat the prisoners like slaves. Working for cents a day, while making hundreds and hour off of each prisoner. Some are fine with this. "They broke the law. Prison isn't supposed to be a good time for these guys."

The problem with that is that it's unconstitutional. They take this money for profits, as opposed to correcting the horrible living conditions. Prisoners are constitutionally protected from bad living conditions. Profits prove that the prisons can afford to improve those conditions. They don't. That's unconstitutional.

Doesn't matter if you don't care about the prisoners. That's the law.

I could go on an on about why they want you to fail.

Regardless, it's also hard to break out of lifestyles, and this is the prisoners fault. You have to distance yourself from these situations and they often times, simply don't. I could stress what makes this difficult, but I digress.

Anyway, hope I didn't ramble on too much.

 

[UltimateHitman]

This is a very tricky subject. As for the general question, Do prisons help reform criminals, sure. They can help, there's no denying that.

The problem is that they don't always serve their intended purpose. If a prison sets out to reform, and the individual they are working on doesn't give two shits about somebody, then chances are when they get out they still won't give two shits about somebody. They will have no problems doing it again.

In some cases prisons are used to attempt reformation. In other cases prisons are used to simply punish criminal behavior. In others, such as serial killings and such, they are used to keep an individual away from society without actually "ending their life" (which is basically semantics. Taking away the things that make life worth living is still taking away "life" in a sense). Their life isn't "over", but it surely has arguably been ended in a way.

That being said, I think some prisons are too lax. As Jack-Hammer pointed out, a lot of them have it much better on the inside than they do out. Their meals are provided for them, clothes, bed, etc. A lot of criminals are thinking of an "easy score", especially in the case of a thief or a burglar, so having things given to them is almost a way of a less responsible way of life.

Maybe one thing they could do would be to house violent and non-violent criminals in separate facilities. I'm not saying make the non-violent prison any more "cushy", but maybe in the whole scheme of things it would make a little more sense.

I also think that prisons are designed in such a way that the idea behind them is lost. Why allow prisoners to have privileges (i.e. television, outside sports, etc) if they have not earned them? Make a prison about bare minimums. If you show improvement and actual intent at correcting the behavior, then you can start earning privileges. I never understood the concept of privileges as rights. A person can exercise in a cell. To earn interaction w/others and other privileges, meet certain stringent criteria which includes not only behavioral but educational and work-related as well. Make them work for it and earn it. In the case of burglars or muggers, even if the money/items are recovered, make them work to cover the value of the items, any damages to the property, etc. If the items are recovered by the person they were stolen from, still have them work off the value but put it towards the prison fund or something. Same w/gang behavior. If it happens, you lose your privileges and start all over. Something to nip it in the bud before it gets out of control. Things of that nature.

I honestly don't have a perfect plan for prison systems, but I do think that something needs to be done to change the recidivism rate. We could at least try to improve the system to achieve better results. It's definitely needed.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

Prison is not the place to send people to be reformed. It's more of a mess in there as it is out in the world. Drugs, murder, beatings are rampant in some places then add to the HIV problem in the prison system and you have a nightmare scenario.

It's unsustainable for any nation to spend more money to build prisons to deal with the crime epidemic than work to fight the causes of crime. Counseling, Drug rehab, and education, job training something.

 

[Minnesota Connection]

Prison does a few things...

1.) Puts criminal minds into a collective "think tank" where you can learn new traits, new techniques, drug connections and friends you haven't seen in awhile (in some circumstances... lol)

2.) It's a joke. The charges sometimes can be very serious, sometimes you want out... Other times, if you have a cell mate, shitting in front of them gets bad... But whatever... It's not THAT bad.

3.) When you are out, you never want to go back. Let me elaborate. You are going to make it harder for THEM the NEXT time. Be even more cautious....

To the people who think its hard to get under the system. No. Its not. The only way the system wins is with a band around your leg that tests your blood alcohol level. THATS when they win. Otherwise, for most drug users, the system is untouchable if done responsibly.