Pick Your Poison: Curt Hennig Or Kurt Angle

[MisterRob]

If pedigree= record..............number of title wins or amount of wins/losses
If pedigree=chart..............in the amount of time those title's were won

So let me use Pedigree!!!!LOL but i totally agree in the different era's thing but Kurt Angle will probley pass Rick Flairs record for World Titles before HHH does.....so thats why I've got to give it to Angle........I had no idea Luger made Hogan tap in '97....i just remember the WWE billing hogan tapping as the 1st time ever type deal............and Angle main-evented several Wrestlemania's......I think he holds the record for consecutive main-event apperances at Wrestlemania. Just my logic for angle!!!

I don't even think Kurt Angle's at ten World titles yet and his body's so broken he'll die in the ring if he goes another five years. I really don't see him catching up to Flair. I also think it's very likely Hennig could have a better win/loss record then Angle as he went an entire year as AWA champion and an entire year undefeated in the WWF, as well as several years dominating as a main star in the Intercontinental championship picture, if we're going by other descriptions of "pedigree".. just to add another viewpoint to things. Also, number of championships don't, in my mind, make you the better wrestler as the best wrestlers have never even needed to be champion, such as Jake "the Snake" Roberts for example. People also have to take into account the different era's. In Hennig's time Hulk Hogan monopolized the main event scene for how long? It was a face world. During Angle's time championship reigns were often really short and the title was tossed around a lot, and there was also three "World" championships in the WWE over the course of Angle's time there as he won the WWE championship, the WCW championship during the Invasion angle, and the World Heavyweight championship. It was a far different landscape.

 

[MattMoses]

To Matt. His place in the West Texas Rednecks was relevant for the fact mid-carders move up when they gain more popularity and their segments draw viewers.

Either I'm misunderstand you or you're saying that Curt Hennig joining the West Texas Rednecks was pushing him further than his earlier WCW career, when a big deal was made about him joining the Horsemen and becoming a WCW U.S Champion?

And I'm really doubting the West Texas Rednecks ever drew more viewers.

You had asked where it was said that Rick Rude was never given a shot at the belt in the WWE because of Hogan. I stated that even Ric Flair mentioned that in his book. He mentioned that when he was talking about Hogan arriving in WCW. He (Ric) said never Rude nor Vader wanted to wrestle Hogan in a match because of their history in WWE.

Okay, thanks. I still haven't read Flair's book yet.

Some people put RVD and and others who don't seserve mention yet you think Curt is not of the greatest.

Once again, professional wrestling is about making money. Curt belongs nowhere near the top 20 in that aspect.

Remember I said in his prime he would be one of the greatest.

But he wasn't.

Hogan didn't do much in the AWA.

Of course not. Becoming the companies top babyface, becoming the companies biggest draw, making the company the most money it had ever made before, selling out arenas, becoming a merchandising machine and becoming a two time world champion (though later reversed), obviously he did nothing in the AWA.

He started in territories and he didn't draw nothing.

He started in a few tiny, unknown territories. They obviously didn't utilize him correctly. But within a few years, he was making the AWA huge profits.

He waited and in the WWE he made money.

He made money before he went to the WWE.

 

[MattMoses]

What I want to know is where Kurt Angle's got 10 World title reigns from. One WCW World Heavyweight title reign, two TNA, four time WWE, one time World Heavyweight. If you ask me, that's a total combined eight title reigns. Unless of course, he's counting the IWGP Third Belt Championship, which personally I wouldn't put onto the level of prestige of that the WWE Championships. But even then, that's only nine.

I also think it's very likely Hennig could have a better win/loss record then Angle as he went an entire year as AWA champion and an entire year undefeated in the WWF, as well as several years dominating as a main star in the Intercontinental championship picture

This is probably true. But you need to realise that the schedule was a lot more demanding during Angle's era than it was in Hennig's AWA and early WWF tenure. And while in the AWA, Hennig had very little people to work with who were at his level. Angle had a horde of top-tier talent to work with, making it much more likely he'd lose more matches than Hennig.

Also, number of championships don't, in my mind, make you the better wrestler

Agreed. Roddy Piper was one of the biggest draws of the 80's, yet he didn't have one WWF championship reign to his credit.

And on the subject of number of championships, it shouldn't be the number of championships you've won, it's the quality of the reign. It's pretty worthless if you're having a year long reign with piss-poor feuds and matches as champion
compared to that of a four month long reign with quality feuds and matches.

Flair tends to be a little overrated in that department. At least three of his acknowledged championship runs lasted less than a month with little to no defenses, one of them even lasting an hour, which is pretty poor.

 

[neilvandam v2.0]

I don't even think Kurt Angle's at ten World titles yet and his body's so broken he'll die in the ring if he goes another five years. I really don't see him catching up to Flair. I also think it's very likely Hennig could have a better win/loss record then Angle as he went an entire year as AWA champion and an entire year undefeated in the WWF, as well as several years dominating as a main star in the Intercontinental championship picture, if we're going by other descriptions of "pedigree".. just to add another viewpoint to things. Also, number of championships don't, in my mind, make you the better wrestler as the best wrestlers have never even needed to be champion, such as Jake "the Snake" Roberts for example. People also have to take into account the different era's. In Hennig's time Hulk Hogan monopolized the main event scene for how long? It was a face world. During Angle's time championship reigns were often really short and the title was tossed around a lot, and there was also three "World" championships in the WWE over the course of Angle's time there as he won the WWE championship, the WCW championship during the Invasion angle, and the World Heavyweight championship. It was a far different landscape.

I agree the landscape was totally different and we are comparing apples to oranges right now..........I think angle is at 9 I believe in the world title count,and am pretty sure he will get it a couple more times there,and I am not ruling out a return to the WWE in the future and another title run there,I think it's within the realm of possibility. It's crazy to think that Angle has held every single title in every single company he's wrestled but it's true,it's damn true. Didn't he even have a hardcore title reign in there somewhere too. I love "perfect" but in totality of everything, titles,wins over Austin,Rock,HBK,Taker,Hogan, and every other major star in wrestling,I give the nod to angle in that regard. Henning had a run in both WCW and WWE when titles were being passed around like candy and he never garnered one world title. It's hard for me to give Henning the victory over a guy who's currently almost in double digits when it comes to world title reigns.

 

[MisterRob]

I agree the landscape was totally different and we are comparing apples to oranges right now..........I think angle is at 9 I believe in the world title count,and am pretty sure he will get it a couple more times there,and I am not ruling out a return to the WWE in the future and another title run there,I think it's within the realm of possibility. It's crazy to think that Angle has held every single title in every single company he's wrestled but it's true,it's damn true. Didn't he even have a hardcore title reign in there somewhere too. I love "perfect" but in totality of everything, titles,wins over Austin,Rock,HBK,Taker,Hogan, and every other major star in wrestling,I give the nod to angle in that regard. Henning had a run in both WCW and WWE when titles were being passed around like candy and he never garnered one world title. It's hard for me to give Henning the victory over a guy who's currently almost in double digits when it comes to world title reigns.

Wait, what?
Hennig had a run in WCW and WWE when titles were being passed around like candy? I think you have that confused a bit. if anything Angle's had a far better advantage in winning championships when they've been tossed around far more then in any Hennig era. Hennig was Intercontinental champion when that title was seen as a stepping stone to the WWF Championship and becoming the best in the business, and very few ever got the Intercontinental title during that era. Same with the WCW United States championship was a far more prestigious title back then then Kurt Angle being a Intercontinental champion or European or any of the other lesser titles he won. I don't see how your logic here is valid at all.

I would never downplay Angle's accomplishments or how great of a wrestler he is, but I really think the importance of his 9 or 10 World title reigns are a bit exaggerated. Much the same as I believe that for the Dudley Boyz claiming their Tag Team title reigns, as both Angle and the Dudleyz claim to be WCW champions when in fact neither were ever in WCW and it was just part of the Invasion angle that buried WCW. Not really very credible to me. Much like it can be argued about WWE having two World titles in the same promotion and people winning both titles and claiming both accomplishments as World championships.. it's a bit watered down to me.

 

[Trumike]

Actually on one episode of Nitro it was stated that the feud the Rednecks were having with the No limit Soldiers were drawing viewers. It was probably because of Master P and his fellow rappers with him that drew but they did draw and that gets people to buy. In his prime as you know about AWA also you can't say Henning was not spectaular as a pure wrestler.

 

[MisterRob]

Of course not. Becoming the companies top babyface, becoming the companies biggest draw, making the company the most money it had ever made before, selling out arenas, becoming a merchandising machine and becoming a two time world champion (though later reversed), obviously he did nothing in the AWA.


He started in a few tiny, unknown territories. They obviously didn't utilize him correctly. But within a few years, he was making the AWA huge profits.


He made money before he went to the WWE.

Actually, Hogan was in the WWWF before he went to AWA, so he was already established before he got to AWA. Also, technically, by Verne Gagne's AWA Hogan is not a two time champion at all.

 

[MattMoses]

Actually on one episode of Nitro it was stated that the feud the Rednecks were having with the No limit Soldiers were drawing viewers. It was probably because of Master P and his fellow rappers with him that drew

So it was actually stated on an episode of WCW Nitro that a certian feud was drawing viewers? I don't recall that.

Obviously the West Texas Rednecks did nothing for the ratings. When they first debuted, ratings for Nitro were at 3.6. By the time they abandoned in October, ratings were down at 2.6. Really, the West Texas Rednecks did nothing to increase ratings.

they did draw and that gets people to buy.

Buy what?

In his prime as you know about AWA also you can't say Henning was not spectaular as a pure wrestler.

He was enjoyable, no doubt. Him and Bockwinkel put some great matches on.

One question. Who drew more money in the territories Flair or Hogan?

How is this relevant to this discussion?

Actually, Hogan was in the WWWF before he went to AWA, so he was already established before he got to AWA. Also, technically, by Verne Gagne's AWA Hogan is not a two time champion at all.

So tell me, outside of a world championship title shot and a feud with Andre, what did he accomplish? The success he achieved in his original WWWF run paled in comparison to that he achieved in the AWA.

 

[MisterRob]

So tell me, outside of a world championship title shot and a feud with Andre, what did he accomplish? The success he achieved in his original WWWF run paled in comparison to that he achieved in the AWA.

I believe you just explained what he accomplished. He was in the main events and gained a shot at the World championship and he was in a feud with one of the WWWF's top stars and top draws in Andre the Giant. Basically the same as he accomplished in AWA, except for a longer period of time, as he was in the main events and gaining shots at the AWA's World champion.