Paul Heyman's Plan for Bryan Danielson in TNA
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klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Good idea in theory, but the problem of modern wrestling comes into play again: with two hours a week of TV to fill, it's not as easy to make fans wait that long.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Like a lot of Heyman ideas, it sounds good (especially to the IWC), but lacks enough context to mean much.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
One thing I really do like about this: it SHOWS that Bryan is a submission specialist instead of merely telling us he's a submission specialist. WWE and TNA do that way too often with their characters anymore. Show us something about this guy instead of tell us something.
I'm sorry, I must be missing something here, because this sounds like a truly appalling idea to me.
1) You hire Bryan Danielson. Bryan Danielson is not particularly charismatic, but has the ability to put on fantastic wrestling matches. What kind of ass-backward logic are you following then to not have the man wrestle for a year.
2) Danielson had just come off an extended losing streak against jobbers in the WWE. He would, simultaneously to working in TNA, be having competitive matches on the indy-circuit. Is this really the man you want to have bury every single member of your roster not named Kurt Angle.
3) So Danielson has his match with Kurt Angle, it's awesome. What do you do with him next? You've already had him tap out every other member of the roster in less than a minute. Who exactly are people going to pay to see him fight once you've made him a star?
4) You are not going to be able to build PPVs for twelve months if you're busy having all your main event players job out to a couple of men you're not getting any kind of pay off from.
So basically you'd be sabotaging a years worth of shows and burying your entire roster in order to build a single match. It would be a great match and would probably draw quite well, but it is in no way worth it.
1) You hire Bryan Danielson. Bryan Danielson is not particularly charismatic, but has the ability to put on fantastic wrestling matches. What kind of ass-backward logic are you following then to not have the man wrestle for a year.
2) Danielson had just come off an extended losing streak against jobbers in the WWE. He would, simultaneously to working in TNA, be having competitive matches on the indy-circuit. Is this really the man you want to have bury every single member of your roster not named Kurt Angle.
3) So Danielson has his match with Kurt Angle, it's awesome. What do you do with him next? You've already had him tap out every other member of the roster in less than a minute. Who exactly are people going to pay to see him fight once you've made him a star?
4) You are not going to be able to build PPVs for twelve months if you're busy having all your main event players job out to a couple of men you're not getting any kind of pay off from.
So basically you'd be sabotaging a years worth of shows and burying your entire roster in order to build a single match. It would be a great match and would probably draw quite well, but it is in no way worth it.
Unfortunately that didn't happen, but instead he gave some great matches in DGUSA and EVOLVE. Sounds about equal.
Seriously, (of course) I would've loved to see that, but that sounds like something I'd dream of in my markish dreams.
€dit: And I agree with Gelgarin, a year is much too long, and under a minute everytime is really not that needed.
Seriously, (of course) I would've loved to see that, but that sounds like something I'd dream of in my markish dreams.
€dit: And I agree with Gelgarin, a year is much too long, and under a minute everytime is really not that needed.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Quiet WWE fan boy! Heyman is the greatest mind EVER in wrestling and nothing he ever does is wrong! Who cares about this stupid logic and common sense??? He's Heyman and the bestest ever! Only he can save TNA because his ideas are perfect and even though he ran a company out of business he's still the best!
Just to show off my creative genius, allow me to fix the idea.
1) You sign Danielson. Danielson is skinny so you start him in the X-Division.
2) People want to see Danielson wrestle, so you have him go undefeated for a month of so, and then put him in an X-Division title program (preferably against AJ Styles who is champion for some contrived reason) and have him have some great competitive matches, all of which he wins.
3) Once you've milked the 25 minute X-Division match for a few months you start the transition into stage two of the plan. Now the main event X-Division talent is out of the way, Danielson's matches start getting shorter and shorter as he squashes people like Brian Kendrick and Alex Shelly. Splash some matches with upper-midcard heavyweights here and there and have them be slightly more competitive, but keep Danielson dominant.
4) The face pop that will come with debuting an indy star should have burned out a little by now, so you start transitioning him towards being a heel. As his wins become easier and easier Danielson begins to physically and verbally bury the entire X-Division. Have him make it clear that all the smarky darlings the company employs are far, far beneath him and that the entire X-Division is a joke.
5) Given that he's not only burying the X-Division, he's also depriving fans of it by making all title matches non-competitive this should get him some decent heat for a while, whilst still allowing you to sell X-Division title matches as people queue up to be the one to dethrone the jackass.
6) When you decide to pull the trigger book the inevitable X-Division feud with Joe (who is probably floundering aimlessly because it's Samoa Joe, and that's what he does). Joe also dominated the X-Division, the feud writes itself. Danielson wins by tapping Joe out in around ten minutes. Ultimate Submission rematch has a similarly one sided result.
7) By this point Danielson has been undefeated for over a year and has been an insufferable jackass for most of that time. He has now just dominated one of the most dominant heavyweight forces in TNA history. At this point you can pick up from Heyman's plan. Danielson cuts his promo talking about how he can tap anybody out. Who should interject? Why TNA heavyweight champion Kurt Angle. Title vs title match at the next PPV, which is highly competitive and which Danielson wins.
8) Danielson is now the top heel in your company, has got just as dominant a history but still has a bucket load of challengers who the crowd can now expect him to have competitive matches with.
You get the same result with better prospects for the future, and you get it without burying anybody important. The X-Division can go back to doing what it's always done once BD vacates the title. Danielson can fight off a few challengers before being upset by the next guy you want to make into a star, and from then on function as a competitive heavyweight competitor.
So there, comprehensive proof that Gelgarin is a superior creative mind to Paul Heyman. I wouldn't actually do this if I was in charge of the company mosyly because I wouldn't want to make Bryan Danielson my top star. That being said, if I was working as a consultant that's what I'd suggest.
1) You sign Danielson. Danielson is skinny so you start him in the X-Division.
2) People want to see Danielson wrestle, so you have him go undefeated for a month of so, and then put him in an X-Division title program (preferably against AJ Styles who is champion for some contrived reason) and have him have some great competitive matches, all of which he wins.
3) Once you've milked the 25 minute X-Division match for a few months you start the transition into stage two of the plan. Now the main event X-Division talent is out of the way, Danielson's matches start getting shorter and shorter as he squashes people like Brian Kendrick and Alex Shelly. Splash some matches with upper-midcard heavyweights here and there and have them be slightly more competitive, but keep Danielson dominant.
4) The face pop that will come with debuting an indy star should have burned out a little by now, so you start transitioning him towards being a heel. As his wins become easier and easier Danielson begins to physically and verbally bury the entire X-Division. Have him make it clear that all the smarky darlings the company employs are far, far beneath him and that the entire X-Division is a joke.
5) Given that he's not only burying the X-Division, he's also depriving fans of it by making all title matches non-competitive this should get him some decent heat for a while, whilst still allowing you to sell X-Division title matches as people queue up to be the one to dethrone the jackass.
6) When you decide to pull the trigger book the inevitable X-Division feud with Joe (who is probably floundering aimlessly because it's Samoa Joe, and that's what he does). Joe also dominated the X-Division, the feud writes itself. Danielson wins by tapping Joe out in around ten minutes. Ultimate Submission rematch has a similarly one sided result.
7) By this point Danielson has been undefeated for over a year and has been an insufferable jackass for most of that time. He has now just dominated one of the most dominant heavyweight forces in TNA history. At this point you can pick up from Heyman's plan. Danielson cuts his promo talking about how he can tap anybody out. Who should interject? Why TNA heavyweight champion Kurt Angle. Title vs title match at the next PPV, which is highly competitive and which Danielson wins.
8) Danielson is now the top heel in your company, has got just as dominant a history but still has a bucket load of challengers who the crowd can now expect him to have competitive matches with.
You get the same result with better prospects for the future, and you get it without burying anybody important. The X-Division can go back to doing what it's always done once BD vacates the title. Danielson can fight off a few challengers before being upset by the next guy you want to make into a star, and from then on function as a competitive heavyweight competitor.
So there, comprehensive proof that Gelgarin is a superior creative mind to Paul Heyman. I wouldn't actually do this if I was in charge of the company mosyly because I wouldn't want to make Bryan Danielson my top star. That being said, if I was working as a consultant that's what I'd suggest.
His "deadly submission" could be used for some months to build him up as a main event star, but there has to come the moment where someone (Kurt?) figures out how to counter the move and beat him. From then on there should be free way to competitive matches, which will be needed after a while, especially with someone who can produce such great competitive matches like Danielson. He's no Goldberg.
You guys are taking the "Year" thing as if that would stand. It was just something Heyman threw out there. Obviously, if this were to happen, it would last 3 months, tops. And it would be great. Also, the notion that Heyman would have Danielson beating big names is ******ed. Heyman's not that stupid. Danielson would be beating jobbers, until finally beating the Goldberg like character. Then Danielson would beat one or two more decent names, and then comes Kurt Angle.
I see nothing wrong with it, personally. Yeah, the year thing is over-the-top, but I'm 100% positive Heyman would not drag this on for an entire year. Shit, 3 months is even pushing it.
I see nothing wrong with it, personally. Yeah, the year thing is over-the-top, but I'm 100% positive Heyman would not drag this on for an entire year. Shit, 3 months is even pushing it.
Not a bad plan at all, but man, I'm so fucking sick of Paul Heyman. I'm sorry, I know he had a good run in the mid 90s with ECW and in the early 2000s on Smackdown, but I absolutely hate that everyone's answer to "fix" some promotion is always "Bring in Paul Heyman!" or even other past bookers, "Bring in Vince Russo!", "Bring in Jim Cornette!", man why does it always have to be past talent coming back, why can't NEW, creative minds get a chance to book? Look what happened when Gabe Sapolsky finally got his chance to book, he produced one of the best products of the last ten years with some truly brilliant angles and feuds. Fuck man there have got to be tons of people in the wrestling business who are intelligent and have creative, new ideas for how to book a wrestling show, I wish more of them would get a chance. Paul Heyman's time is over. I wish Vince Russo's was as well.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
While I understand the allure of the "new guy," it isn't really that simple. Very few writers wanted anything to do with prowrestling when it wasn't an industry in decline. The industry carries a stigma and you do not even get a credit. On top of that the majority of the wrestlers dislike the writers no matter what. I imagine that is even worse when you bring in someone with no experience in the industry, something else wrestlers despise.
George Steele's Barber
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Heyman probably thinks of Bryan Danielson like Mikey Whipwreck. Bryan Danielson is the nerdy kid who can be smarter or a little quicker than the bully. I like that WWE just sends him out there to put on a match. One minute submissionfests would get old pretty quickly and doesn't help to fill a show.
If he is going to get huge it is probably going to take time and a little bit of luck (some unintended catch phrase maybe). The David vs. Goliath thing would make for a nice feud and terrific outcome but BD has a ceiling and he is not the guy anyone is going to build a major American promotion around.
I wouldn't rule out that Heyman could book a successful promotion but my guess is that there are talented guys that could do the same without costing as much or bringing in such a big ego (and a greasy ponytail).
If he is going to get huge it is probably going to take time and a little bit of luck (some unintended catch phrase maybe). The David vs. Goliath thing would make for a nice feud and terrific outcome but BD has a ceiling and he is not the guy anyone is going to build a major American promotion around.
I wouldn't rule out that Heyman could book a successful promotion but my guess is that there are talented guys that could do the same without costing as much or bringing in such a big ego (and a greasy ponytail).
Pay Per Ghost
What they f*ck happened in the thread section here
Care to share some?
You're misunderstanding me here SD, I'm not asking for new "writers" from Hollywood or outsiders from the wrestling business, I just want new creative people to be given the chance to book and write. You don't have to be a TV writer from Hollywood to get a job writing wrestling and I'm in fact saying that you shouldn't go after that kind of person, and instead go after someone who's been in the business for awhile, knows what works and what doesn't, and has the most important element of them all: passion. There have got to be tons of intelligent, creative ex-wrestlers and other people in the business out there who could probably come up with some really creative and fun angles or feuds.
All I'm saying is just give new people a chance. Not new TV writers, new passionate minds for the business.
You should post more, because you're pretty awesome.
Unfortunately alot of ROH stuff gets taken down from YouTube and DailyMotion, so it's hard to find alot of matches and promos on those sites that I can just embed here. But for reference I'm talking about the whole CM Punk vs. Raven feud in ROH, the Prophecy stable formation and dissolution, CM Punk's title win, heel turn and eventual redemption in the Summer of Punk (2005), and the incredible ROH vs. CZW inter-promotional rivalry in 2006, the Age of the Fall stable. Gabe produced some incredible angles during his ROH stint. He did a really good angle with Jon Moxley and Homicide a few months back on one of his EVOLVE shows too, let me see if I can find that maybe.
Joe's Gonna Kill You
The Hunt is On
Couldn't you do this with any new debuting submission type wrestler
Kenny Powers
Bulletproof Tiger
At least it sounds better then Daniel Bryan the ladies man.
The Dewbliners
WZ's Whedonite. Now 20% Cooler
My response to "Bring in Heyman"? BRING IN QUACK!!!! The man was able to book a three year long angle, with such precision, nobody saw it coming! Also, he'd be a new(ish) name on the national scene.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
I agree to an extent X. The business is certainly too "closed." I do think the people that have done it for a while bring a lot of valuable experience. I'd say ideally it is that those names you mention take a more figurehead role where they fine tune the ideas of the person with passion. I am not sure just anyone can write the show though. That seems to be one of those pervasive myths that isn't remotely true.
Allow me to shorten your idea some.
1) Hire Daniel Bryan.
2) Put Daniel Bryan in matches with Christopher Daniels, AJ Styles, and Kurt Angle.
3) Profit.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Somewhat ironic that Danielson made that comment about TNA given the current WWE situation with CM Punk.
The Bearded One
Love is not admissable evidence.
I was going to say the same thing. If I was TNA and I didn't want Russo anymore, Quackenbush would be the guy I would want to bring in. Hell, I might even give UltraMantis Black a shot at it.