Paul Heyman Slams TNA’s Use Of ECW Talent And References

[It's Damn Real!]

During a Q&A session on Newsday to out his recent WWE DVD, Paul Heyman was asked about TNA's use of ECW talent, and their recent attempts to capitalize off televised references to the defunct property of their biggest rival:

"I think it’s very much time for anybody and everybody to move on, especially on a product that you’re trying to push forward. Nostalgia tours are great, but not in a youth oriented and dominated industry. I think the lesson learned in all this is that Spike TV didn’t renew them. And one of the reasons has to be that the most passionate reaction they can get is for a product that went away in 2001. And they’ve been trying to brand themselves since their inception and they can’t get it done. They should have spent that time and energy trying to brand themselves and not trying to elicit a response of an audience based on a product that they don’t even own."

--

Frankly, he's right on the money here. While the wrestling itself has been fine, and while the crowds are still reacting to this path, the fact of the matter is that the company they are piggybacking went out of business long ago, and is actually owned by their biggest rival. Any real market research done on the TNA brand would tell you that a lack of original identity, or a deviation from an original identity is at the top of the hill of things fans want to see change. The complaint there has largely been the same for years, in wanting TNA to be an alternative to WWE, and not to simply be it's own version of WWE. Well, logic dictates that the same would hold true for any other company, including ECW. So why, after all these years, are we back here again? Hardcore Justice I wasn't enough of a walk down private-property-do-not-trespass lane?

Again, I get the crowd are reacting, but there are three other letters they should be chanting at every show that don't start with the letter E, yet TNA seems content with the idea of the fans foregoing that to echo the death rattle of a company that's been rotting I the ground since 2001. Talk about a microcosm of not getting it.

 

[Alastor]

Looking at the age of some of those fans, I doubt they were even conceived when ECW was active. WWE tried the same thing years ago with their botched efforts to capture that 'edgy' wrestling passion with ECW. So can't really shit on TNA for trying to do same now that they are desperate. Anyway can we really be surprised? TNA was built on trying to capture the WCW fanbase that were looking for a new wrestling product after the fall of WCW. ECW is also probably easier for TNA to peddle since they have so many of the bigger ECW names on their roster. Every promotion does this if they have to.

 

[klunderbunker]

Interestingly enough, this is similar to one of ECW's biggest problems: they're playing to the live crowd instead of the TV audience. As Lance Storm has said before, there are a lot more people on the other side of the camera.

At the end of the day, the ECW reunion (for a company that died thirteen years ago) was a great treat for the hardcore ECW fans in New York, but they don't do much for a lot of the other fans. I for one wasn't a huge ECW fan during its day, so why would I want to see a reunion for it thirteen years later? Unless I had a special connection to it, I wouldn't want to see a reunion of a promotion that only lasted about seven years. Again, it's trying to copy off what WWE did on a much lower level. One Night Stand 2005 was a great ECW reunion. Hardcore Justice was a joke and this has been horrible.

For the last several years, it's been one nostalgia trip after another. We've had ECW taking over the summer. Before that it was three years of Hulk Hogan and Sting cowboying up and being the saviors of TNA. Before that it was.....TNA, when the company reached arguably its peak. TNA really feels like a bunch of mercenaries who used to work for WWE.

Look at its top stars: Angle, Hardy and the Dudleys may have been in TNA for a long time, but they made their name in WWE. Anderson, MVP, Ethan Carter III and Lashley made their names in WWE as well, along with many others who aren't in TNA anymore. There's very little as far as original talent or characters, and that's going to catch up to you after awhile. TNA comes off as a company built off nostalgia (and now it's coming off as a company working with Japan for some reason) with nothing of its own. Why would I want to watch nostalgia for so many years? Eventually it stops being fun and starts being the same stuff you've watched forever. TNA hit that point years ago.

 

[Miseria Cantare]

i think that tna was really at it's highest when the 1st main event mafia was around and EVERYTHING turned for the worst when double j lost all creative input i hope in 3-4 years gfw be an amazing company and become everything tna should've continue to be

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

As much as seeing guys like Rhino, Dreamer etc is still entertaining to me, I don't want to see a whole episode of iMPACT or a PPV dedicated to them any more. ECW was over in 2001, and while the 2005 One Night Stand was great, it really should have ended there. WWE's incarnation of ECW was poor, and here we are 13 years after the death of a company and TNA are still referencing a company which whose names/trademarks are owned by their dominant rival....

There is nothing wrong with using wrestlers like Rhino, Bully Ray, Angle, Hardy etc on the roster because even though they made their name in WWE or ECW, they can still perform to a high level. The problem is that TNA have struggled for years to create stars of their own, and consistently rely on using wrestlers who are forever linked with their previous employers, and this is highlighted even more when a guy like Tommy Dreamer (who was never a big name in WWE and peaked 15 years ago) is promoted as a major draw on an episode of iMPACT.

I like Dreamer, I always have...but he isn't going to attract new viewers to watch TNA's product. The company needs to build its own stars- like EC3 (I know he was in WWE but only briefly), Magnus, Gunner etc and give more attention to wrestlers like Roode and Storm. I fear its too late though.

 

[closet_fan]

Ever since they started taping in New York, it's been a slow build back to an ECW type promotion. It wouldn't shock me if this was Bully Ray getting into Dixie's ear saying this will save the company.

There was a report awhile back that Bully has been able to get a lot more pull backstage.

Now you have Dreamer back who, for some reason, still can't seem to let go of the past. You've got Rhino. Dudleys are back. Who else from the former ECW will they bring? Sabu? Raven....again? It's a terrible Plan F to get cheap ratings by bringing back a dead promotion that's been gone longer than some TNA fans have even been alive.

And in regards to Heyman; I'm not sure what made Bully think he could use Heyman's name on air. Quite frankly I was shocked at the Heyman/ECW references. Maybe they think they are so dead in the water, they just don't care what they do.

As for the fans at the NY tapings; still fake for the most part. They still have to tell the fans who is good and who is bad. I'm sure there are some old ECW faithful at these shows. But when I see a majority of fans giving an old/outdated thumbs down motion to heels, it makes me cringe. Wrestling fans who know the know don't do that. They are told to do that.

The final nail in the coffin will be the mainstream media picking up that a woman was put through a table. This might have flied in the 90's, but the PC America will slam them.

 

[lil steroid meat]

I definitely agree with Heyman in that TNA needs an identity, I see why they've piggybacked off of WCW and ECW for so long.

TV execs don't care about fans wanting a WWE alternative, they just see that Sting, Hogan, Angle and even Rhyno, Dreamer, etc. are bigger names than Styles, Joe, and the TNA originals.

So it comes down to whether or not you want to please TV execs or create an identity for yourself in the long run.

There is no good reason why Styles/Joe/Aries aren't held in the same stratosphere or wrestling stardom in the post-Attitude Era as Cena/Lesnar/Orton/Punk. The fact that WWE was barely even interested in Styles upon release says a lot about what TNA did to build him up. WWE scooped up all the WCW guys (Booker, DDP, Goldberg, Jericho) once they had the chance.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

I loved ECW. Probably my favourite promotion ever. I was lucky enough, with my brother, to get involved in the tape trading community in the late 90s, so managed to see a lot of their cards. Then, when the industry got really hot around 1999, ECW got televised over here (UK) and they signed a VHS distribution deal for their ppvs. I still consider Anarchy Rulz 1999 one of the top 10, if not top 5, ppvs I've ever seen.

Arguably, ECW changed the industry, and paved the way for the golden age of wrestling (1998-2002) - both Vince and Bischoff took the best elements of ECW and adapted them for their own needs, a clear sign of how important ECW was.

BUT

ECW died for a reason. Never mind it's reputation amongst tape traders, it never really outgrew the bingo hall in South Philadelphia. It had its core fan base who attended every card (one of their characters was even inspired by a regular, Sign Guy Dudley) but for all its platitudes, it never really got any bigger. If it had done, Heyman wouldn't have filed for bankruptcy in 2001. ECW may still be around, having displaced WCW as the number 2 promotion in North America.

But it's not. It's dead.

That is the only justification a promotion requires for NOT rehashing ECW. The one-off 'specials' - like One Night Stand 2005, which didn't really affect WWE continuity - work. But not basing a long term storyline around it. What shocks me most about TNA is that it's not the first time they've done it! And it didn't bring in the viewers last time!!

TNA need to find their own niche, not replicate a respected but not widely supported promotion which became defunct 13 years ago

 

[TDFG]

If TNA had kept the Dixie v Dreamer storyline as a personal feud then I'm sure the fans in NYC would have taken to it anyway, bringing back D-Von & Rhino just basically showed that they wanted to use ECW one last time.

In some ways they've been smart with the bookings for these tapings with the talent they've booked, but they need to continue pushing Storm, Roode etc. the TNA originals.

 

[JJYanks121]

During a Q&A session on Newsday to out his recent WWE DVD, Paul Heyman was asked about TNA's use of ECW talent, and their recent attempts to capitalize off televised references to the defunct property of their biggest rival:



--

Frankly, he's right on the money here. While the wrestling itself has been fine, and while the crowds are still reacting to this path, the fact of the matter is that the company they are piggybacking went out of business long ago, and is actually owned by their biggest rival. Any real market research done on the TNA brand would tell you that a lack of original identity, or a deviation from an original identity is at the top of the hill of things fans want to see change. The complaint there has largely been the same for years, in wanting TNA to be an alternative to WWE, and not to simply be it's own version of WWE. Well, logic dictates that the same would hold true for any other company, including ECW. So why, after all these years, are we back here again? Hardcore Justice I wasn't enough of a walk down private-property-do-not-trespass lane?

Again, I get the crowd are reacting, but there are three other letters they should be chanting at every show that don't start with the letter E, yet TNA seems content with the idea of the fans foregoing that to echo the death rattle of a company that's been rotting I the ground since 2001. Talk about a microcosm of not getting it.

The last part of what you said is an inherent problem of thought. The fans shouldn't chant the letters of any promotion. That's an Indy thing. TNA is an internationally broadcasted brand. What the fans should be chanting for are the WRESTLERS and for so long, the focus was not on creating those stars. With nostalgia in the back pocket, they always fell back on that, often at the detriment to the young talent (remember EV2.0?)

I want to see the old guys who get nostalgia pops be used more sparingly, not bring up their past companies, and make the younger talents look like stars.

 

[lil steroid meat]

I loved ECW. Probably my favourite promotion ever. I was lucky enough, with my brother, to get involved in the tape trading community in the late 90s, so managed to see a lot of their cards. Then, when the industry got really hot around 1999, ECW got televised over here (UK) and they signed a VHS distribution deal for their ppvs. I still consider Anarchy Rulz 1999 one of the top 10, if not top 5, ppvs I've ever seen.

Arguably, ECW changed the industry, and paved the way for the golden age of wrestling (1998-2002) - both Vince and Bischoff took the best elements of ECW and adapted them for their own needs, a clear sign of how important ECW was.

BUT

ECW died for a reason. Never mind it's reputation amongst tape traders, it never really outgrew the bingo hall in South Philadelphia. It had its core fan base who attended every card (one of their characters was even inspired by a regular, Sign Guy Dudley) but for all its platitudes, it never really got any bigger. If it had done, Heyman wouldn't have filed for bankruptcy in 2001. ECW may still be around, having displaced WCW as the number 2 promotion in North America.

But it's not. It's dead.

That is the only justification a promotion requires for NOT rehashing ECW. The one-off 'specials' - like One Night Stand 2005, which didn't really affect WWE continuity - work. But not basing a long term storyline around it. What shocks me most about TNA is that it's not the first time they've done it! And it didn't bring in the viewers last time!!

TNA need to find their own niche, not replicate a respected but not widely supported promotion which became defunct 13 years ago

Not to derail the thread but ECW ended due to money issues and not having a TV home. Spike dropped ECW for RAW because...well, it's RAW lol. The product as hot as ever in their final days.

 

[T2KFreeker]

Far be it for me to point out, but all this talk about "Branding". Dixie Carter went through the table last night on TNA Impact. They were mostly ECW guys out there and you know what? It was the loudest TNA chant I have heard since like 2009. It wasn't an ECW chant, it was a TNA chant. I understand that TNA uses ECW guys non their shows, but what you all seem to be forgetting is that Rhyno was a part of the TNA roster for a long time. Tommy Dreamer was as well. Mind you, I know they always go back to the ECW Roots, but like any other company hasn't when they have Ex ECW wrestlers? The shows have been HOT since they went to New York. Call it Nostalgia, whatever, as a wrestling fan, I want to see good wrestling and be entertained. I was and am happy, as a WRESTLING fan with where TNA has been for the last couple of months actually. ECW wrestlers or not, from a Wrestling standpoint, the company is on a no hitter streak and I hope it stays that way for a bit.

 

[whoopin' ass]

Heyman is right especially here where you don't have access to any footage or anything to build up a feud. It is fine to say this group of guys had history but time to focus on the present. TNA had played the ECW card more than once now, time to move on.

 

[Anti-IWC-Marks]

I think a lot of you guys are a bit off here, and T2K dispelled much of the erring of claims here.

First off, TNA isn't branding themselves with ECW, they are using some ECW references in only one of their angles. (and I'll admit, IMO, one of the better angles they've done for quite some time). So enough with the "branding" argument. One angle does not mean "branding".

Second, as soon as you leave the "WWE Universe", you get wrestling fans with a far greater knowledge of wrestling history. So while a guy like Tommy Dreamer won't much be appreciated in WWE, he will be damned near Ric Flair to a history-enriched wrestling crowd.

Third, T2K accurately stated that Bully, Devon, Rhyno, and even Dreamer have established themselves as TNA guys. The fact that we equate ECW to them, and that the fans will always equate them, isn't TNA's Fault. Meanwhile, these four have really created some hot crowds, routinely getting the biggest pops. I don't know the ratings off hand, but I'd bet the ratings increased the past month or so.

Paul Heyman has moved on, and that's fine. People still chant ECW when they see him, and I'm sure deep down he appreciates it. But the main reason Heyman HAS moved on because WWE has given him a chance to do so. He's a company man, the best promo guy in the business, and has a mind for the business. I wouldn't be surprised if Heyman was "encouraged" to come down on TNA for using ECW by WWE guys. I'm not saying WWE fears TNA, but let's not act as if nobody ever picks on someone else.

 

[snoopy]

During a Q&A session on Newsday to out his recent WWE DVD, Paul Heyman was asked about TNA's use of ECW talent, and their recent attempts to capitalize off televised references to the defunct property of their biggest rival:



--

Frankly, he's right on the money here. While the wrestling itself has been fine, and while the crowds are still reacting to this path, the fact of the matter is that the company they are piggybacking went out of business long ago, and is actually owned by their biggest rival. Any real market research done on the TNA brand would tell you that a lack of original identity, or a deviation from an original identity is at the top of the hill of things fans want to see change. The complaint there has largely been the same for years, in wanting TNA to be an alternative to WWE, and not to simply be it's own version of WWE. Well, logic dictates that the same would hold true for any other company, including ECW. So why, after all these years, are we back here again? Hardcore Justice I wasn't enough of a walk down private-property-do-not-trespass lane?

Again, I get the crowd are reacting, but there are three other letters they should be chanting at every show that don't start with the letter E, yet TNA seems content with the idea of the fans foregoing that to echo the death rattle of a company that's been rotting I the ground since 2001. Talk about a microcosm of not getting it.

The WWE does not own ECW! They let the ECW trademark slip a couple years ago and someone from New York picked it up and Heyman basically gave the same statement over twitter when they did pick it up. So who really does own ECW? Something ain't right.

 

[ABMorales787]

Wow. That's some very passive as fuck slamming on Heyman's part. I mean, Paul made these comments and not once did he curse at someone or something. Must be losing his touch.

Yeah, what he says is no secret. Then again, TNA just seems to have that ridiculous curse of never selling out an arena. They can stick 7,000 into the Alamodome, still not fill it. Go to a highschool gym in fucking England, the biggest pro-TNA area, and for some mysterious reason, come up short from a sellout. So they went as deep down the well as they could for New York. And pulled out the beaten, broken carcass. Jammed inside a colonoscopy bag.