Patience = Payoff

[Jtrivera]

*Note to Mods if this is in the wrong section please move it*

Over the past year or so we have all witnessed what is now being referred to as "The Yes Movement" Daniel Bryan a man who wrestled in little towns, for little Indy promotions, finally getting his shot at the big time, only to be screwed by COO Triple H, for months he's held down, for months he's screwed over, and whys that? Because WWE wants to create a moment, and not just any moment, when Daniel Bryan FINALLY captures the WWE title, fairly and no reversed decisions the place will explode, maybe it will be at mania, and maybe it won't be, but one thing the WWE universe is lacking is patience.. WWE staff has the universe in the palm of their hands with Bryan, when Zack Ryder was the underdog did the fans cheer for him? Yes, did they want to see him be successful? Yes, but when Zack Ryder finally got his time, the popularity died down...the same goes for Christian winning his first world title, he got it the fans went nuts, cheered for him, after all was said and done Christian fire died out and the fans moved to the next bandwagon, Everything is being done right with Bryan, the more he's held down the more people will cheer for Bryan, the more people will boo the champion, or anyone holding Bryan back, it's cheap heat but have you ever heard crowd reactions like the ones we've heard at Royal Rumble and EC?

My question to you, is do you think that creative knows what they're doing as far as Bryan goes?

Do you think without the yes chant Bryan would be as popular as he is.?

And do you see Bryan walking out with the title anytime soon.?

 

[ASKane]

Waiting too long = Lack of interest in payoff = a lot of money left on the table = bad business

Patience is good but there needs to be a clear end game and payoff to make the wait worthwhile. WWE have waited too long for the payoff as Mania should have been the absolute latest in terms of Bryan and probably means they have missed out on tons of money through PPV buys, Merch and live show tickets. Bryan is probably the hottest ever act in pro wrestling history yet it has been 8 months since the crowd took to him and he still has just a combined about 25 hours as champion

Patience is good at times, stupidity is never good. WWE are stupid for waiting too long with Bryan as his heat will eventual die out and for each show they wait they lose thousands more dollars in potential revenue

 

[Reflection]

Have you ever heard crowd reactions like the ones we've heard at Royal Rumble and EC?

I didn't get the chance to watch Elimination Chamber, but the chants at Royal Rumble were really something. I have never seen anything like it during the time I watched wrestling regularly (2006-09) or following it on the internet (2009- till date). He has clearly surpassed John Cena in terms of being 'over' with the American audience.

My question to you, is do you think that creative knows what they're doing as far as Bryan goes?

Yes they are. They are waiting for Bryan's momentum and crowd attachment to wear off, and then they can put him back on the mid card, and put some heavily muscular guy in his place.

Do you think without the yes chant Bryan would be as popular as he is.?

Not even close to being what he is today. Maybe at some point in the future he would be main-eventing Mania's, but he wouldn't be THIS over with the fans. It is possible that this is one thing that WWE is concerned about, but chances are low.

And do you see Bryan walking out with the title anytime soon.?

Honestly, No. Him winning at Wrestlemania would have been the pinnacle of his career and the climax of the storyline, but obviously thats not going to happen. He might be handed the title around SummerSlam, through Survivor Series into TLC, i.e. during the dull season. The results, of course, won't be satisfactory, and that will give the people in charge all the more reason to push him back down.

 

[nightmare]

Patience has equaled payoff with The Shield vs Wyatts thats for sure. WWE has done a damn fine job there.


Now with the Bryan thing... I do see it finally paying off. At first it was getting obvious that they were not going to let it get too far. Now, they really have to let it culminate into a big win. The chants and support became electric. Even WWE knows when they have to admit first ideas were wrong & let things play out to a positive. Vince loves a certain type of wrestler & does not like when fans think his choices are wrong. He will hold off on pulling the trigger but, at least he finally seems to come around on things. Even he knows when he has gold even if that guy does not fit the mold.


Bryan will get his moment. Patience does have a reward. Sometimes it just takes a bit more of a push from fans for the WWE to come around. They have a habit of standing their ground with ideas, but sometimes even Vince has to change his mind & give the fans what they want once in a while. Bryan has 'it' and will continue to be popular after his eventual victory over adversity, mainly because he works his ass off and has a great connection with fans.

 

[enviousdominous]

My question to you, is do you think that creative knows what they're doing as far as Bryan goes?

Do you think without the yes chant Bryan would be as popular as he is.?

And do you see Bryan walking out with the title anytime soon.?

I think that, as you seem to have implied in your opening paragraph, the WWE got Daniel Bryan's push to the top right on accident.

Sometimes bad things happen and from them we get beneficial consequences. Daniel Bryan was brought over, and people like me were already die-hard Bryan Danielson marks. I don't know what the reasoning was, but he was brought over as a "rookie" unto the "pro" known as The Miz.

This was probably a deliberate plan to coerce marks like me, I see no other reason for them to eventually have Daniel Bryan go over Miz like he did. Then, as we all remember, Daniel Bryan went a little overboard during the spot where NXT performers went ape-shit during a CM Punk vs John Cena match. He was fired for his behavior.

I don't think that the plan was to bring him back, I think the WWE wiped their hands of Daniel Bryan and set up their future shows around his never having existed. Fans chanted and made their voices heard, and Daniel Bryan was brought back.

The fans were granted a positive perspective on their influence and it became a popular idea to rally behind Daniel Bryan. I think that the WWE thought this would pass in time, and attempted to use up his popularity by giving him a lack-luster world title run. Even though he was a heel, Daniel Bryan was able to mix it up with guys like Santino and steal the show. The crowd was loud with praise for Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania, and then he was pinned in 18 seconds to help over-write HHH's quick loss to Ultimate Warrior. This didn't kill his popularity as I believe the WWE hoped it would have, it made the fans even more zealous toward their love for Daniel Bryan.

I think they know what they're doing now, and in my humble opinion they're doing it quite well. Daniel Bryan didn't win at Elimination Chamber, but he was allowed to kick out of the RKO immediately after Randy Orton performed it. Daniel Bryan doesn't carry the championship(s), but he's being allowed to perform like someone as over as Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin.

I think the "YES" chant isn't all of what makes Daniel Bryan likeable. Daniel Bryan had the "YES" chants bestowed onto him by the crowd, it was how they reacted positively to his tendency to ham it up on tv. Daniel Bryan would scream "YES!" as an answer to a question during a backstage promo as a way to express his character in a silly manner, the crowd turned it into a significant part of his gimmick. I'm pretty sure that the "CLAP CLAP CLAP-CLAP-CLAP DANIEL BRYAN!!" chants would have occurred more fervently if there was never a "YES" chant for the fans to rally themselves with.

I see him maybe taking one of or both of the belts by Summerslam. I don't see the WWE milking this until next year's Wrestlemania, it would be way too drawn out. You can't keep selling tickets to fans and leave them with the idea that their favorite performer might become champion only to have it turn out to be yet another massive tease.

 

[GOOZEKING]

No, it is enough with this wait for it and that creative knows what they are doing talk.... They don't if they did then bryan would have won rumble and was going to main event mania . Instead he has to save triple h . This just shows that they have no idea what they are doing. Bryan fighting triple h is like if mcmahon fought austin in mania 1998/1999.

 

[GOOZEKING]

I see him maybe taking one of or both of the belts by Summerslam. I don't see the WWE milking this until next year's Wrestlemania, it would be way too drawn out. You can't keep selling tickets to fans and leave them with the idea that their favorite performer might become champion only to have it turn out to be yet another massive tease.

The problem with waiting till summerslam is that 1. the feeling of him winning it won't be the same in a small stage and 2 everyone knows that after summerslam and before rumble is wwe worst time of the year so wwe creative is going to so something stupid bryan will get a "bad" rating and they will blame us saying see you guys have no idea what you are doing.... It needs to be at a mania and it needs a fighting chance to stay alive

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Patience has equaled payoff with The Shield vs Wyatts thats for sure. WWE has done a damn fine job there.


Now with the Bryan thing... I do see it finally paying off. At first it was getting obvious that they were not going to let it get too far. Now, they really have to let it culminate into a big win. The chants and support became electric. Even WWE knows when they have to admit first ideas were wrong & let things play out to a positive. Vince loves a certain type of wrestler & does not like when fans think his choices are wrong. He will hold off on pulling the trigger but, at least he finally seems to come around on things. Even he knows when he has gold even if that guy does not fit the mold.


Bryan will get his moment. Patience does have a reward. Sometimes it just takes a bit more of a push from fans for the WWE to come around. They have a habit of standing their ground with ideas, but sometimes even Vince has to change his mind & give the fans what they want once in a while. Bryan has 'it' and will continue to be popular after his eventual victory over adversity, mainly because he works his ass off and has a great connection with fans.

Agreed.

I do think that they're in danger of letting it go too far if Bryan's moment doesn't come at WrestleMania XXX. It's the biggest event of the year, it's the 30th WrestleMania, so there's not going to be any bigger stage for Bryan to have his moment. If it was to come at a later date, people would be let down in comparison, but at least he'd have his moment. I understand that people are frustrated with waiting for it to come, I'm a Bryan fan and it does irk me sometimes as well. However, by now, Vince has to see the bigger picture. Bryan may not fit the mold, but he's who the vast majority of fans have chosen. Bryan's "Yes!!!" chant and the "Yes Movement" itself has crossed over into mainstream sports and has garnered national attention from sources like ESPN and USA Today. Vince loves anything that increases WWE's notice among the broader spectrum and the fact that it all seems to be coming from such an unlikely source; the source being this scrappy, passionate 5'9" 210 pound underdog with a mountain man beard named Daniel Bryan, only makes it all the more interesting to the mainstream media. Comparatively speaking, Daniel Bryan's "normal", and most "normal" people like seeing another "normal" guy get his props.

 

[zags]

I can honestly see Bryan being involved in the title match at WrestleMania. We all know come WrestleMania time it's time for HBK to make a continued presence leading up to the event. This year with it looking like Bryan vs. HHH it's obvious he'll be involved. I see somehow the WWE using HBK's HHH's relationship to get Bryan in the title match if HHH is defeated by Bryan earlier in the night. Batista, Orton, HBK, HHH, Bryan all together are intertwined in one way or another. It would be believable and not seemed forced to inject Bryan into the main event. Despite what fans think, the WWE is business and though fans may not like the product the WWE knows this Bryan YES chant will eventually die out and they need to cash in before it does.

 

[justinept]

My question to you, is do you think that creative knows what they're doing as far as Bryan goes?

I think they know what they want to do. I just don't think they realize that anything short of Bryan holding up the title to end WrestleMania won't work.

The original plan was reportedly to have Bryan wrestle Sheamus. The plan, at the moment, appears to have Bryan wrestle Triple H. Both choices are logical. A win against Sheamus would illustrate how far Bryan has come since the WrestleMania 28 debacle. A match against Triple H would give him a chance to avenge the past six months.

The hole in both matches, though, is that they do nothing to address the real problem: Batista vs Randy Orton in the main event is going to be an embarrassment to the company. The only way to fix that imminent train wreck is to put Bryan in the WWE Title match.

Do you think without the yes chant Bryan would be as popular as he is.?

Does it matter? Would DX have been as popular without the Suck It callback? Would Mick Foley have become as popular without a sock puppet?

And do you see Bryan walking out with the title anytime soon.?

Yes. He will win the title very soon. In fact, I don't see him leaving New Orleans without it. If it doesn't happen at WrestleMania, then my guess is that the WWE will build the 'after-Mania' Raw around Bryan challenging the champion, and then beating him in the main event to win the title.

Again, that's a logical choice. The WWE is trying to increase their TV ratings while they hammer out a potential billion-dollar TV deal. Giving that type of moment to Monday Night Raw does a few things: 1) It gets word of mouth buzz as people tell their friends to turn on the TV for the Bryan title match. 2) It provides an electric moment for the most raucous Raw crowd of the year. 3) It carries over the momentum of WrestleMania weekend into the next week as people now tune in a week later to see what happens with Bryan.

But once again... none of this fixes the company's biggest problem right now. If they let Batista and Randy Orton wrestle in the main event, the crowd will shit all over it.

 

[L@RISANO]

Even my dad who was never a WWE fan at any point, and used to slag it off for being fake, has become a Daniel Bryan in the past couple of months and has become interested in watching his matches. He says that Daniel Bryan is the best Wrestler on the roster.

I guess D-Bry's popularity is far reaching, even beyond America, if marketed properly.

Me, I'll stick with Taker,Cena and Reigns. Though I do appreciate the other top guys as well. The only I have hated is Triple H, but only due to him being the best overall Heel I have seen in all my years of watching WWE.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Waiting too long = Lack of interest in payoff = a lot of money left on the table = bad business

Patience is good but there needs to be a clear end game and payoff to make the wait worthwhile. WWE have waited too long for the payoff as Mania should have been the absolute latest in terms of Bryan and probably means they have missed out on tons of money through PPV buys, Merch and live show tickets. Bryan is probably the hottest ever act in pro wrestling history yet it has been 8 months since the crowd took to him and he still has just a combined about 25 hours as champion

Patience is good at times, stupidity is never good. WWE are stupid for waiting too long with Bryan as his heat will eventual die out and for each show they wait they lose thousands more dollars in potential revenue

Daniel Bryan - "the hottest act ever in pro wrestling history".

Bigger than "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, The Rock, The Undertaker, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Bruno Sammartino in his heyday?

Come on. Bryan is good, but he hasn't achieved enough yet to be able to be spoken in the same breath as any of those guys.

Talk about overhyping someone!

 

[d_henderson1810]

Waiting too long = Lack of interest in payoff = a lot of money left on the table = bad business

Patience is good but there needs to be a clear end game and payoff to make the wait worthwhile. WWE have waited too long for the payoff as Mania should have been the absolute latest in terms of Bryan and probably means they have missed out on tons of money through PPV buys, Merch and live show tickets. Bryan is probably the hottest ever act in pro wrestling history yet it has been 8 months since the crowd took to him and he still has just a combined about 25 hours as champion

Patience is good at times, stupidity is never good. WWE are stupid for waiting too long with Bryan as his heat will eventual die out and for each show they wait they lose thousands more dollars in potential revenue

If Bryan's heat dies down, then he isn't the right guy to have as your top guy in the company.

If Bryan is as deserving and big as you all say he is, then he will be just as big in a year's time as well. A true star's "pull" never goes away.

SCSA didn't get to the top until a few years' in WWE, but when he did, he kept his interest. If he showed up on "Raw" today, he will still get massive cheers.

Either Bryan is a long-term star or not. Vince may be testing if you all still care about Bryan one year, two years, five years down the track. Or will be just be another Dolph Ziggler or Zack Ryder.

 

[Softcore Holly]

If Bryan's heat dies down, then he isn't the right guy to have as your top guy in the company.

If Bryan is as deserving and big as you all say he is, then he will be just as big in a year's time as well. A true star's "pull" never goes away.

SCSA didn't get to the top until a few years' in WWE, but when he did, he kept his interest. If he showed up on "Raw" today, he will still get massive cheers.

Either Bryan is a long-term star or not. Vince may be testing if you all still care about Bryan one year, two years, five years down the track. Or will be just be another Dolph Ziggler or Zack Ryder.

That's the thing about Austin though, he got to the top and got to stay there. That's why one of the reasons why he would get those massive cheers. They didn't keep Austin chasing the title for 1, 2 or 5 years, because if they did they would risk him losing that "pull".

The test isn't seeing how people react to a guy not having the title, the actual test begins once DB gets a significant title reign and loses that screwed underdog feeling. Of course how he's booked afterwards will play a huge part to how popular he'll stay, if his title reign is booked as poorly as Ryder and Ziggler then of course he's doomed.

 

[three count bout]

If Bryan's heat dies down, then he isn't the right guy to have as your top guy in the company.

If Bryan is as deserving and big as you all say he is, then he will be just as big in a year's time as well. A true star's "pull" never goes away.

SCSA didn't get to the top until a few years' in WWE, but when he did, he kept his interest. If he showed up on "Raw" today, he will still get massive cheers.

Either Bryan is a long-term star or not. Vince may be testing if you all still care about Bryan one year, two years, five years down the track. Or will be just be another Dolph Ziggler or Zack Ryder.

I feel like this is generally right however you can't seriously be comparing what we've seen with Daniel Bryan to Zack Ryder. They're incomparable levels of popular. And aside from the canyon like gap of overness Zack Ryder was involved in such a head scratching angle with Eve, Kane and Cena where he was made to look like a bitch for half of it.

The WWE did what they like to do all too often they took a guy who had something working and did something else with him and blamed him when he lost all his heat plus no one ever said he should be a major player or world champion it was more or less hey he's popular can we at least get the guy some more screen time and capitalize on it. Not everybody is SCSA and most couldn't survive such crappy angles.

 

[d_henderson1810]

That's the thing about Austin though, he got to the top and got to stay there. That's why one of the reasons why he would get those massive cheers. They didn't keep Austin chasing the title for 1, 2 or 5 years, because if they did they would risk him losing that "pull".

The test isn't seeing how people react to a guy not having the title, the actual test begins once DB gets a significant title reign and loses that screwed underdog feeling. Of course how he's booked afterwards will play a huge part to how popular he'll stay, if his title reign is booked as poorly as Ryder and Ziggler then of course he's doomed.

Come on. The fans CHOOSE who they want to get behind.

You can't have it both ways. Fans cheer and boo who they want, but, when their fave isn't pushed, they decide that he isn't that good. Well, you decide whether you stick with Bryan or not, not WWE.

The WWE Universe want WWE to fall into line with them all the time, yet won't get on board with WWE when they want to do something (like the push of John Cena).

Cena has been booed and hated for years, yet he still gets a reaction. If Bryan is as good as you say he is, then he will still get that pop, many years down the track.

Fans ONLY want Bryan as champion, and only as the main event at WMXXX. The fans expect WWE to be their bitch. Boo hoo, we want this, we want that.

You know what, Bryan may get the title, and then what. The fans are cheering partly to stick it to the WWE. If they give you what you want, then it isn't as fun anymore. The fans like the "Us against them" mentality.

Success isn't acceptable to a lot of people anyway. Anyone who succeeds in WWE (Vince McMahon, Triple H, John Cena) are treated like they didn't earn their success.

The pro-Daniel Bryan fans are starting to really piss me off with their whining, and I like Daniel Bryan. I am sick of the fans thinking they know better than the company. Go run one, if you think you can do better, otherwise, go and find someone who cares what you think.

 

[CaptainZaltan]

Oh, I think the WWE knows exactly what it's doing. Daniel Bryan will get his main event title shot....at a blowoff ppv sometime after Mania that could use an increase in buys. The fans will be appeased (supposedly), and then at Wrestlemania 31, we can get another part-timer snooze-fest so that the WWE can associate itself with whatever former wrestler has a movie coming out in 2015. Which will, of course, entirely miss the point.

Fans want WM30 to be special, not frustrating and forgettable. They don't want nostalgia acts, they are tired of predictability and they are sick of the current crop of main event talent. Fans also want to see stars pushed based on crowd reaction and performance, not on politics. Fans want to be able to choose who to root for, not to have that choice made for them. And fans want the top stars of TODAY to main event the biggest show of the year. Whether or not they should, people view Wrestlemania in the same way that they view the climax of a movie, or a season finale, or the Stanley Cup finals or the Superbowl. In other words, they expect a big payoff for the story lines and performers that they've invested in throughout the year. They expect the best performers, the stars of the show, to take precedence. You don't blow off or de-emphasize what your current fans care about just so you can possibly get a little interest from an entirely different audience. Iron Man shouldn't just show up and save the day at the end of Captain America or Thor simply because he's more popular. Tom Cruise shouldn't just show up in the season finale of Breaking Bad just because he's a bigger star than Bryan Cranston. You don't substitute all-stars into the Stanley Cup finals just because they are bigger names than the members of the final two teams. And you don't overlook the most popular star you've created in a decade just on the off-chance that Entertainment Tonight might mention you if Dave Bautista's new movie is successful. Associating with a famous name to get attention is one thing, but doing it at the expense of what your existing fans came to see is both unnecessary and foolish.

As for Zack Ryder and Christian? Ryder was used to help put over John Cena. He got his ass beat and humiliated for a few weeks so Cena could come to his rescue, and then he was buried in the deepest hole the WWE could dig. Christian lost his title on, what, the next show after he won it? And then he turned heel. He was never given a chance to succeed as a fan favourite. That's two examples of the WWE booking themselves out of what could have been two massively popular face runs, which isn't really doing the "WWE knows what it's doing" side any favours. That Bryan's momentum hasn't died down despite some pretty damn awful booking is a testament to the fact that he's a star of a much higher calibre than Ryder or even Christian, and to how the WWE's fans have grown much more skeptical of the WWE's creative direction (probably in part due to how they did mishandle stars like Christian and Ryder in the past).

As for whether or not the "Yes" chant got Daniel Bryan over, it's like asking whether or not Austin would have been popular without "3:16," or "and that's the bottom line." Maybe he wouldn't have come up with something as popular, but he was destined for greatness regardless. When fans cheer "Daniel Bryan", LOUDLY, even when he's not in the ring, even when supposedly more popular superstars are, it's obvious that its not just the "Yes" chant that's over. When the WWE has tried, and failed, to give the "Yes" chant to other stars, its clear that Daniel Bryan got the "yes" chants over, not the other way around.

 

[Softcore Holly]

The fans can choose who they want, but end of the day if that guy isn't doing interesting (watching your guy get their ass kicked all the time isn't fun) they're going to move on to someone else since doing otherwise makes them feel like they're wasting their time. But mostly the majority of people just like winners, especially kids. Take any majorly popular thing in...like everything and you'll see that the 1 thing they have in common, they're win most of the time. And guess what Ryder and Ziggler didn't do very often when they "failed".

And it actually does goes both ways so to speak. It takes both fan support and pushes from the WWE for a star to stay popular. No guy in the history of wrestling has ever stayed on top on fan support alone. If the guys in charge don't care than the only place you're going is down, simple as that.

Speaking of Cena if the fans really had all this power then him being hated and booed would've got him in Ryder's place ages ago. But obviously that didn't happen since the WWE saw something great in him and pushed the hell out of him as a face despite the initial hate and booes. As for DB he'll get those cheers as long as he keeps getting support from creative.

And do you think all those years ago they thought "We can't give the title to Austin! Then what?!! The fans only want him to have the title just to stick it to us!" Nope, they gave him the title and found ways to keep things fun despite losing the "Us against them" mentality. And chances are they'll do the same with DB since it's a great way to keep the cash rolling in. Not saying DB = Austin, they're just doing a very similar storyline.

The success thing is serious overgeneralization. I don't see people saying that Rock, Austin, HBK, Taker, etc etc etc didn't earn their success. Not that the 3 guys you listed really needs the justification, their success speaks for itself.

Lastly you don't have to listen to people that pisses you off, if you think it's that bad then just ignore them and enjoy what WWE puts in front of you.

 

[Tyler44]

Waiting too long = Lack of interest in payoff = a lot of money left on the table = bad business

Patience is good but there needs to be a clear end game and payoff to make the wait worthwhile. WWE have waited too long for the payoff as Mania should have been the absolute latest in terms of Bryan and probably means they have missed out on tons of money through PPV buys, Merch and live show tickets. Bryan is probably the hottest ever act in pro wrestling history yet it has been 8 months since the crowd took to him and he still has just a combined about 25 hours as champion

Patience is good at times, stupidity is never good. WWE are stupid for waiting too long with Bryan as his heat will eventual die out and for each show they wait they lose thousands more dollars in potential revenue

I'll still never understand this notion that if Daniel Bryan does not win soon, that they'll lose thousands in potential revenue each show. What money would they lose? Daniel Bryan shirts? They're already selling like crazy.

People are still going to sell out the shows. People are still going to buy his merchandise along with all the other top merchandise. Daniel Bryan is not going to drop off the face of the Earth any time soon, regardless of "patience." There is no money to be at loss each show he doesn't become champion. The same percent of people will keep watching. The WWE Network is still going to be purchased. Money will always be flowing in. If Bryan doesn't win in the next month, people will be upset, but will keep watching.

Listen I understand the basic business theory. If you do not satisfy a customer, they do not come back. You do not make money. That's the formula in most cases. But, this is a different business. The customers of this product are loyal. You guys all know you've been watching this since you were kids. You fought through 2007-2010. You're still here. WWE is still rapidly growing in sales each week. Regardless if the fans are pissed off at the product, people are still going to watch and still pour in money. Regardless if Bryan wins next week or not, money will keep pouring in rather than being lost.

And yes, Bryan wins at Wrestlemania 30.