Paterno done at Penn State?

[LSN80]

84 year old Joe Paterno may have coached his final NCAA game.

According to ESPN.com, Penn State officials cancelled Paterno's weekly press conference, and declined to re-schedule it. Paterno, who had initially stated that he would not answer questions or address the case of former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, is rumored to have changed his mind. Paterno was to read a statement regarding his knowledge of the 7, now 8, charges of sexual molestation that are soon to be levied against Sandusky, and also was prepared to answer questions from the media. The Penn State president also noted in a brief statement that Paterno would not take part in the Big Ten Conference call he was scheduled for as well amidst the ongoing investigation to take place.

And now, it is rumored that Paterno's 46 year tenure as the Nittany Lion head coach is coming to an end as well. According to a report from the Pittsburgh Tribune Review(PTR), the board of trustees is attempting to figure out the smoothest way to handle Paterno's departure, and that Paterno leaving is not a matter of "if, but when." The PTR is rumoring that Paterno's departure could be a matter of weeks, or a few short days. In the case involving sexual abuse regarding Paterno's long-time assistant Sandusky, Paterno isn't being investigated, but is being labeled by investigators as having done the bare minimum. Paterno reported the allegations to the Penn State Athletic Director, but failed to go to the police, Pennsylvania State Police Commissioner Frank Noonan said. Noonan chastised Paterno morally, although he stated Paterno essentially broke no laws. And today, an 8th alleged victim, now an adult, has come forth with allegations that Sandusky abused him as well.

Personally speaking, I believe it's time for Paterno to go, both for the good of the program and the school itself. Paterno has always been fond of saying "I aim to teach boys how to be men, not just how to play football." Perhaps Im getting ahead of myself, and Ill own that if I am, but how is doing the moral minimum setting a good example for anyone? Paterno may not have broken any NCAA regulations, per se, but how could one make the argument he acted ethically here? Penn State made the right call in cancelling Paterno's news conference. They avoided themselves the embarrassment of Paterno sounding as clueless regarding the Sandusky situation as he has lately when discussing football, and they didn't give Paterno the chance to do damage control. It's sad that Paterno's career will likely be besmirched at the end by a sex scandal, but does he have anyone to blame but himself?

Do you believe Joe Paterno has coached his last college football game?

If Joe Paterno has coached his last game at Penn State, how do you think he will be remembered?

Where does Paterno rank amongst all-time great college football coaches?

 

[Davi323]

Yeah. Up until a few hours ago, I would have steadfastly supported JoePa until more facts came out. I would have argued that he notified his superiors, that he didn't see it happen, that it was the assistant coach who actually witnessed it should have called the cops, etc...and then something else became known. Sandusky was continued to be allowed access to not only the PSU athletic facilities in general, but also to the football specific ones as well, with reports indicating as recently as last week.

It is implausible to believe that Sandusky and Paterno would never have run in to each other in those facilities. I don't necessarily believe that it was Paterno's responsibility to call the police, it was the coach that actually witnessed it's job. However, once Paterno became aware of the accusation, he continued to allow Sandusky access to his program. I don't buy that Paterno failed in his moral responsibility by not calling the cops, he followed his chain of command. I do buy that he failed in his moral responsibility by letting Sandusky continue to have access to his program after he found out, not only the initial accusations, but the grand jury testimony and all that too. Had Paterno banned Sandusky at any point, I might give him the benefit of the doubt, but he didn't. It's time.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

First of all, the entire "scandal" is horrifying to say the least. This is FAR, FAR worse than paying players.

Now to answer your questions:

1. I don't see any way that Paterno can coach another game without being a MAJOR, MAJOR distraction to the team. He is done, will not coach again. I think he'll hand in his resignation tomorrow or Thursday.

2. Unfortunately, his legacy will forever be tarnished by this horrific story and the fact that he did not take enough action. He didn't call the police or authorities in order to protect the program.

3. He ranks in the Top 5 for sure. He's right up there with Bowden, Eddie Robinson, Paul Bear Bryant.

 

[Chardee Macdennis]

I think Paterno coached his last football game a number of years ago and has stayed on as a figure head well past his prime.

His legacy will be forever tarnished and I think this scandal goes a long way to proving my theory of Paterno's arrogance. His arrogance about his program and of himself has been evident for years. He has dismissed the PITT program as a PSU rival for years asking for 2 home games to PITT's 1 if they were to ever re-new a rivalry. Granted, PITT has not had a stellar program, but they certainly aren't division II as JoePa would have you believe.

All of that being said, JoePa is easily in the top 10 coaches of all time. I'd venture to say that if he'd have hung 'em up years ago as he should have, he may even be #1 or #2.

 

[Slyfox696]

I'm not sure if I follow the logic here.

Even though Joe Paterno did nothing wrong, saw nothing, reported an alleged accusation through the proper channels, he is going to be forced out of the job he's held for 40+ years the first time someone else does something wrong? Yeah, slightly illogical thinking there. In my mind, this is nothing more than making Paterno a scapegoat so the University can wash their hands clean of the whole affair, while at the same time get rid of the legend they've tried for years to get rid of.

If all the facts in this thread are true, the idea Joe Paterno, a man who has been nothing but an upstanding person and coach for 40+ years who makes sure most of his players graduate, should be fired for the actions of others is completely illogical.

Sandusky was continued to be allowed access to not only the PSU athletic facilities in general, but also to the football specific ones as well, with reports indicating as recently as last week.

Then, and even now, these are only allegations. And there were no legal allegations before. Why should Joe Paterno play judge, jury and executioner to someone when he never witnessed any wrongdoing?

I understand what you're saying, but the idea Paterno should be fired for that seems silly in my opinion. Paterno's job is to coach football, not to investigate criminal conduct.

 

[Shocky]

I'm not sure if I follow the logic here.

Even though Joe Paterno did nothing wrong, saw nothing, reported an alleged accusation through the proper channels, he is going to be forced out of the job he's held for 40+ years the first time someone else does something wrong? Yeah, slightly illogical thinking there. In my mind, this is nothing more than making Paterno a scapegoat so the University can wash their hands clean of the whole affair, while at the same time get rid of the legend they've tried for years to get rid of.

That's the only issue I have with the entire thing. If this were Joe Paterno's grandchild, you know that Joe Paterno would go to the police right away.

You can't just go to a supervisor in a work situation when a serious crime has taken place. At some point, you have to go to the police, especially if you saw nothing come from this when you reported it.

 

[Slyfox696]

That's the only issue I have with the entire thing. If this were Joe Paterno's grandchild, you know that Joe Paterno would go to the police right away.

I disagree. If it was Paterno's grandchild, he'd go to his family's house and ask the grandchild. If the grandchild said it did happen, THEN he would go to the police.

You can't just go to a supervisor in a work situation when a serious crime has taken place. At some point, you have to go to the police, especially if you saw nothing come from this when you reported it.

Not necessarily true. There are a lot of laws and rules regarding something like this. In order to report something like this, and be free of any civil liability (after all, a false accusation is slander) you have to have a reasonable suspicion of abuse. Joe Patero had secondhand hearsay knowledge from another person who witnessed it.

No, this wasn't Paterno's responsibility, he did what he should have. The guy who said he witnessed it? HE should have gone to the police. Did he? If not, why is no one talking about that? Joe Paterno did what he was supposed to, it was the responsibility of other people to check into the allegations.

Like I said, Paterno's job is to coach, not investigate criminal activity. He passed it on to the person who SHOULD have been the one to investigate, and that person didn't do their job.

 

[Davi323]

Then, and even now, these are only allegations. And there were no legal allegations before. Why should Joe Paterno play judge, jury and executioner to someone when he never witnessed any wrongdoing?

I understand what you're saying, but the idea Paterno should be fired for that seems silly in my opinion. Paterno's job is to coach football, not to investigate criminal conduct.

The thing is, I don't really disagree with you, except for one detail. I totally agree it's illogical, that he is a football coach not an investigator, that he didn't break any laws, I was a Paterno defender even as of this morning...and I fully understand that according to the law, Paterno has done absolutely nothing wrong.

I don't think he needs to be fired because of the actions of others...I think he needs to be fired because of his inaction in preventing it from happening again.

My problem lies in the fact that even knowing what Sandusky was doing, as a man, as far as we know, he didn't do anything to confront him. A confrontation, a blow up, a screaming match, something to let us know that he was pissed off at Sandusky. Something. In that same situation, I certainly wouldn't allow him to continue to bring children to my football facilities...yet Paterno did. That is what I object to. Even if Paterno had absolutely nothing to do with the crimes, and reported it to the people he was obligated to report it to, after that, he didn't do anything to prevent it from happening in the future.

He couldn't stop Sandusky from molesting anyone else off campus...but he sure has hell could have made sure that it would never happen anywhere on the Penn State campus again, by making it clear Sandusky was no longer welcome there. Joe didn't do that though, he continued to allow Sandusky access, even as recently as last week. Again, not illegal in any way, but just because something is legal doesn't make it right.

I will even acknowledge that my feelings on this are partially based out of feeling hurt that he broke my trust as a longtime fan of college football than anything else. Joe Paterno is one of the all time heroes of college football. I am not a Penn State fan, I am a Michigan fan...but I love Paterno to death. It was very, very difficult for me to give him anything but the full benefit of the doubt. JoePa is still one of the good guys, and when he finally dies, I will remember him for that far more than I will for any involvement with this scandal. But for now, I can't help but think he could have done a lot more to prevent it from happening in the future, but chose not to...and that is unforgivable to me.

 

[Slyfox696]

My problem lies in the fact that even knowing what Sandusky was doing, as a man, as far as we know, he didn't do anything to confront him. A confrontation, a blow up, a screaming match, something to let us know that he was pissed off at Sandusky.

Let's say he had. Let's say he blew up at him, called him a pedophile, accused him of being an evil person. Let's say other people overheard this conversation and word got out Paterno called Sandusky an evil person. If these allegations were untrue, then Sandusky could turn around and sue Paterno for every dime he's ever made.

No, that is not the way you handle the situation.

In that same situation, I certainly wouldn't allow him to continue to bring children to my football facilities...yet Paterno did. That is what I object to. Even if Paterno had absolutely nothing to do with the crimes, and reported it to the people he was obligated to report it to, after that, he didn't do anything to prevent it from happening in the future.

And put yourself in Paterno's position. You don't know anything about the truth of these allegations, you report them, but nothing ever happens. At that point, do you still assume guilt, though you have no evidence to support it, and those who were supposed to investigate never claimed any wrongdoing?

It's so easy to sit back now and talk about what he COULD have done, with hindsight being 20/20. But again, it's not Paterno's job to seek the truth. Furthermore, the facilities do not belong to Paterno, they belong to the University. If the University is not prohibiting him from being there, why would Paterno's word be more absolute than the University?

He couldn't stop Sandusky from molesting anyone else off campus...but he sure has hell could have made sure that it would never happen anywhere on the Penn State campus again, by making it clear Sandusky was no longer welcome there.

You are now blaming Paterno for the lack of action by the University. Joe Paterno is a big name, I don't doubt, but only the University can ban people from the campus.

Joe Paterno is one of the all time heroes of college football.

He is. And if the people above him had done what they were supposed to, none of this would ever be a problem, and Sandusky would have likely been behind bars years ago.

Which takes me back to my original statement:

If all the facts in this thread are true, the idea Joe Paterno, a man who has been nothing but an upstanding person and coach for 40+ years who makes sure most of his players graduate, should be fired for the actions of others is completely illogical.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

The thing that everyone needs to remember is the reality, like it or not, that Joe Paterno is basically "God" at Penn State. He's the de facto athletic director and when it comes to the football program, even now, every decision, comes through JoPa's desk. Sure, some of you smart alecs are going to point to the organizational charts and "chain of command" and I get all that. The reality is though, Joe Paterno IS Penn State football. So, with that said, if he had gone to the AD and said, this is absolutely unacceptable, I want Jerry Sandusky fired immediately and I want his access to the school revoked, none of this would be happening now and he'd really be the Joe Pa that we all know and love.

IF he did do that and they still took no action, then I think I'd be more on Joe Pa's side but he gets what he wants so it's highly, highly unlikely that he made the demands I suggested above.

We're not talking about a couple kids smoking pot in bathroom or breaking a couple of windows. If that were the case then, yeah, you send your boss an email (MAYBE) and then you drop it but if you hear from an eyewitness that an old man is in the shower raping a 10 year old boy, you do a lot more than simply notify your superior.

 

[shattered dreams]

I tend to side with Sly on this one. The idiots on the radio were blowing my mind with all the crap they were spouting out. If you want to preach the importance of putting this in a context beyond sports, then suggesting firing the football coach is possibly the most important issue is a curious way to do that. I find this to be the ultimate monday morning quarterback scenario. As Sly has pointed out, how much do you really expect someone to do with second hand information? Especially second hand information that the individual that told it to you apparently didn't want to bring forward themself? As far as this "access" thing, once again the football access is one of the least concerning accesses I would have in this situation, yet it is being portrayed as the most important. Even if it is important because of the history it is pretty clear that Paterno did not have ultimate control of the campus 9 years ago, why do people insist he does now? It is a sad situation that he probably could have done a little better with but I think it is ridiculous he is the scapegoat here. It seems like a very complicated situation to me and as long as people ignore that I have a hard time taking them seriously.

 

[Big Sexy]

As much as people want to see Joe Paterno as this larger then life figure and the ruler of everything that is Penn State, at the end of the day he is a football coach. Yes, he is probably the greatest college football coach ever and yes, his impact on the University is seen through far more then just athletics, but he is just a football coach. He does not get paid to run the university, he does not get paid for administrative duties, he does not get paid to investigate matters that don't revolve around his football team.

A graduate assistant witnessed one of Sandusky's unlawful acts and told Paterno. Paterno then did what he was supposed to and reported what he was told to his higher ups in the assumption that they would actually do their jobs and investigate the matter. Paterno did not witness anything. If anybody should have gone to the police it should have been the graduate assistant who actually saw the thing happen. If someone comes and tells me they saw one of my good friends murder someone then I'm not just going to go to the police right away, I'm going to do some investigating first to make sure it's true. Paterno gave his information to the people who were supposed to do the investigating (because that's part of their job) and he went back to his job as football coach.

I also fail to see how it's Paterno's fault that Sandusky was still allowed on campus. Once again Joe Pa doesn't run the university, he runs the football team. The University had Sandusky listed as assistant professor emeritus of physical education in the Lasch building. The University gave him an office across from the football team's building, a parking pass, and other amenities as part of his 1999 retirement package. Paterno had no authority to keep him away from campus.

Considering all Joe Pa had was a statement from a graduate assistant I'm not sure what people would have wanted him to do differently. If he goes to police all they're going to say is we need to talk to the person who actually witnessed it.

The two high ranking officials who lied to the grand jury and failed to investigate the matter are at fault. The graduate assistant who actually witnessed what happened and only told his father and Paterno is also somewhat at fault. And most of all, Jerry Sandusky is a gigantic piece of shit who should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Joe Paterno handled the situation how he was supposed to under the circumstances and unless more details come forward showing he had more knowledge of what was happening then he should not be fired.

 

[The Man They Call WMD]

Just saw the video of him talking to students through his window. I feel bad for him, but under the circumstances it's hard to defend him. In a situation like this, there is no upside. Everyone suffers.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I'm not sure if I follow the logic here.

Even though Joe Paterno did nothing wrong, saw nothing, reported an alleged accusation through the proper channels, he is going to be forced out of the job he's held for 40+ years the first time someone else does something wrong? Yeah, slightly illogical thinking there.

An understandable viewpoint. The answer might be rooted in the "I'm the big man" standing of the guy who's in charge. In the case of Enron, the big man was Kenneth Lay. Although he always claimed that the ultimate responsibility was his for whatever happened in the corporation, he wound up denying knowledge of any of the accounting fraud and shady financial reporting in which his subordinates had engaged. Previously, he claimed to be running his company with an iron fist, yet when the hammer dropped, he didn't know nuthin'........apparently preferring to be known as incompetent than dishonest. In the end, that didn't save him anyway, which is a good thing.

In sports, we're constantly hearing the same thing from the head coaches of teams. They tell us the buck starts and stops with them and that they're responsible for anything that happens under their watch.

Okay, then what do we do with Joe Paterno and Penn State? This Sandusky scandal goes back such a long way and always had the potential to explode, as it now has. Did Paterno really have no knowledge of it? Did he know but refuse to see what was in front of him? Did he know and refuse to act? Did he not know anything about it, being an old man who is in charge of football but has never involved himself in the hundreds of things that don't directly involve what happens on the field?

As with many of the business and sports leaders who find themselves in trouble, we may never truly know. But if these people are really as "responsible" and as "in charge" as they say they are, they often have to prove it by being the captain who goes down with the ship, even if it was just a lowly steward who committed the breach that caused the ship to sink.

In the end, Joe Paterno will probably go, without admitting whether he had foreknowledge of the scandal or not. By doing this, his legacy will be one of long, sustained success on the old gridiron.

 

[Slyfox696]

An understandable viewpoint. The answer might be rooted in the "I'm the big man" standing of the guy who's in charge.

Except, Paterno wasn't in charage. He wasn't in charge of the athletic department, he wasn't in charge of the University. He wasn't in charge of criminal investigation. He wasn't even in charge of Sandusky when this was reported to him (reported to him in 2002, Sandusky left in 1999).

Paterno was in no way in charge of anything regarding this.

In sports, we're constantly hearing the same thing from the head coaches of teams. They tell us the buck starts and stops with them and that they're responsible for anything that happens under their watch.

But that's asinine. You cannot be responsible for the actions of others if you don't know about them.

Okay, then what do we do with Joe Paterno and Penn State?

You get rid of the ones who were responsible. Paterno is not one of those guys.

This Sandusky scandal goes back such a long way and always had the potential to explode, as it now has. Did Paterno really have no knowledge of it?

Not until 2002, when Sandusky no longer worked for him.

Did he know but refuse to see what was in front of him? Did he know and refuse to act? Did he not know anything about it, being an old man who is in charge of football but has never involved himself in the hundreds of things that don't directly involve what happens on the field?

When Paterno found out, he did EXACTLY as he was supposed to. The people above him were the ones that failed, not him. He did his job, they didn't do theirs.

As with many of the business and sports leaders who find themselves in trouble, we may never truly know. But if these people are really as "responsible" and as "in charge" as they say they are, they often have to prove it by being the captain who goes down with the ship, even if it was just a lowly steward who committed the breach that caused the ship to sink.

That's asinine. Saying one person should be responsible for the actions of another is flat out stupid. Why must we insist on blaming people for what others did (or didn't do)? Why is it Paterno's fault Sandusky is an evil man, and the higher-ups at Penn State didn't do their job?

I'm sorry, but that statement is so stupid, words cannot describe it. Our society should focus the blame on who deserve it, not on someone else just because he has a name that we know.

 

[ScruffDog]

The problem with Paterno about all of this, is that he is Penn State. He is the biggest thing on that campus, and nothing happens their that he doesn't know about. I'm not exaggerating here, that's a fact. Also Paterno had a big reputation for being a very moral man. Before this incident, he would have gone down as one of the greatest and most respected coaches ever, now we'll see.

Paterno did nothing legally wrong. When he heard of the incident in 2002, he told the athletic director, and that was the end of his legal obligation. As a moral human being, he should have followed up on these allegations.

There is overwhelming evidence that Paterno know about the incident 98 when Sandusky was accused of molesting a boy. In 2002 Sandusky wasn't even an employ of Penn State, and yet he still had keys to the locker room, and even a parking pass. In 2007 Sandusky was on the field with a child, and no one said anything. If you've read the report given by the witness for 02, you would be shock to know they let this man back on campus without an investigation into the allegations.

Paterno was seen as this high moral man. There is overwhelming evidence that he know about the scandal and did the absolute minimum requested. As a moral person, who has more pull in Penn than anyone, it is your responsibility to make sure you get the truth of a scandal like this. He didn't, and more children were raped in the 9 years following the 02 incident.

He should do the right this a step down. Hell we've been wait for him to retire for years now anyway. It would be best for the school, and his team, if he just stepped aside.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

The problem with Paterno about all of this, is that he is Penn State. He is the biggest thing on that campus, and nothing happens their that he doesn't know about. I'm not exaggerating here, that's a fact. Also Paterno had a big reputation for being a very moral man. Before this incident, he would have gone down as one of the greatest and most respected coaches ever, now we'll see.

Paterno did nothing legally wrong. When he heard of the incident in 2002, he told the athletic director, and that was the end of his legal obligation. As a moral human being, he should have followed up on these allegations.

There is overwhelming evidence that Paterno know about the incident 98 when Sandusky was accused of molesting a boy. In 2002 Sandusky wasn't even an employ of Penn State, and yet he still had keys to the locker room, and even a parking pass. In 2007 Sandusky was on the field with a child, and no one said anything. If you've read the report given by the witness for 02, you would be shock to know they let this man back on campus without an investigation into the allegations.

Paterno was seen as this high moral man. There is overwhelming evidence that he know about the scandal and did the absolute minimum requested. As a moral person, who has more pull in Penn than anyone, it is your responsibility to make sure you get the truth of a scandal like this. He didn't, and more children were raped in the 9 years following the 02 incident.

He should do the right this a step down. Hell we've been wait for him to retire for years now anyway. It would be best for the school, and his team, if he just stepped aside.

Great points. I agree. It's ridiculous for people to ignore reality and act like Paterno had no knowledge that Sandusky had keys to the athletic facilities AND a parking pass. As you mentioned, and I touched on in an earlier post, nothing happens with the football team that he doesn't know about. Even though he got second hand information from the graduate assistant, he should have questioned him further (in his early statement Paterno said he didn't know enough of the details: THEN YOU ASK HIM FOR EVERY DETAIL AS HORRIFYING AS THEY MAY BE) and then at the very least, confronted Sandusky about it. He is Penn State and if he truly loves Penn State he would have not allowed that to happen under his watch. He's also a father and grandfather, which makes his inaction even more shocking. It SEEMS (granted we don't know for sure) that he was covering up the incident or "brushing it off." Something as terrible as that should not be brushed off. Again, this isn't a couple kids smoking pot outside the dorms, this is first degree sexual assault of a child.

 

[shattered dreams]

I think it is an important distinction that what the Graduate Assistant told the grand jury and what he told Paterno are different. Also, by most reports the Graduate Assistant still works for the football team. If he didn't feel the need to call the police and was comfortable with Sandusky "being around," why is it Paterno absolutely had to feel differently?

He had keys and a parking spot !???!!!??! Well, that changes everything. I mean what kind of person with an office on campus has a parking spot? What kind of retired PE teacher has keys to a gym there? Oh right, all of them. What kind of football coach has control over such things? Pretty much none.

 

[ScruffDog]

I think it is an important distinction that what the Graduate Assistant told the grand jury and what he told Paterno are different.

That's not 100% true. McQueary, the grad assistant, originally said he told Paterno the whole story, but just recently Paterno said he hadn't. They all have been changing there story's so much to try and cover there ass, it's hard to tell whats true.

Also, by most reports the Graduate Assistant still works for the football team.

Yes, all reports say McQueary is an Assistant coach.

If he didn't feel the need to call the police and was comfortable with Sandusky "being around," why is it Paterno absolutely had to feel differently?

Because Paterno has painted this pitcher for us all these years that he holds people to a higher standard than most. Paterno knew what Sandusky was accused of. He knew Curley, the athletic directer, did not go through with an investigation. As a person with high morals like Paterno said he was, he should have felt very uncomfortable.

He had keys and a parking spot !???!!!??! Well, that changes everything. I mean what kind of person with an office on campus has a parking spot?

Sandusky didn't have an office on campus, he was retired.

What kind of retired PE teacher has keys to a gym there? Oh right, all of them.

Name one. This is a huge University, not your elementary school. For security reason when you retire you no longer have accesses to buildings. He shouldn't have access to the facility unless he was accompanied by an employee.

What kind of football coach has control over such things? Pretty much none.

At Penn State Paterno does

This whole thing is a mess. They tried to deal with Sandusky in house to not try and hurt Penn States reputation. They failed, and because of all the cover ups, more peoples jobs are going to be on the chopping block, and worst of all more kids were raped by this sick fuck.

 

[shattered dreams]

That's not 100% true. McQueary, the grad assistant, originally said he told Paterno the whole story, but just recently Paterno said he hadn't. They all have been changing there story's so much to try and cover there ass, it's hard to tell whats true.

Well, Paterno told that to the Grand Jury and he doesn't have a perjury charge ...

Anyway, I don't disagree that it is hard to tell what is true, which is exactly why I think it is much harder to pass judgment on this situation than people are making it out to be.

Because Paterno has painted this pitcher for us all these years that he holds people to a higher standard than most. Paterno knew what Sandusky was accused of. He knew Curley, the athletic directer, did not go through with an investigation. As a person with high morals like Paterno said he was, he should have felt very uncomfortable.

Who are you to say how someone should feel? Did he know what Curley did and did not do?

Sandusky didn't have an office on campus, he was retired.

Name one. This is a huge University, not your elementary school. For security reason when you retire you no longer have accesses to buildings. He shouldn't have access to the facility unless he was accompanied by an employee.

The grand jury investigating Sandusky found that he was given the office, a parking pass and other amenities as part of his 1999 retirement package.

At Penn State Paterno does

He didn't in 2002 or else he would have just dealt with it himself instead of following protocol.

 

[ScruffDog]

Well, Paterno told that to the Grand Jury and he doesn't have a perjury charge ...

And nether has McQueary, so sombody's lieing.

Who are you to say how someone should feel? Did he know what Curley did and did not do?

You're right who am I to say how someone should feel. Let just say hypothetically, that you're a moral good person. You're heard story's of this man molesting and raping little boys dating back to 98. Then you are there on the field and this man has brought a boy with him to watch your practices. How comfortable are you right now?

Paterno has been holding people to a higher standard for years. That's one of the reasons he's such a great coach. Why was Sandusky different?

He didn't in 2002 or else he would have just dealt with it himself instead of following protocol.

And that's the million dollar question. Paterno still had major pull at Penn State in 02, so why didn't he deal with it himself.

Once again it's the whole "when good people do nothing" scenario. By no means is Paterno the major person at fault here, he's just the biggest name. I actual blame McQueary a hell of a lot more than Paterno on this one. Now Paterno has said he will step down after this year. I feel bad that his great legacy will he tarnish by something like this. Hopefull as time passes, he can separate himself from this. He didn't do anything wrong, but he didn't do anything right either, and there in-lines the problem

 

[Slyfox696]

The problem with Paterno about all of this, is that he is Penn State. He is the biggest thing on that campus, and nothing happens their that he doesn't know about. I'm not exaggerating here, that's a fact.

Ahh, so Paterno is God. Good to know.

It's ridiculous for people to ignore reality and act like Paterno had no knowledge that Sandusky had keys to the athletic facilities AND a parking pass.

And it's ridiculous for you to think that has anything to do with Paterno.

As you mentioned, and I touched on in an earlier post, nothing happens with the football team that he doesn't know about.

But Sandusky having a parking pass and keys to the athletic facilities have nothing to do with the football team.

Even though he got second hand information from the graduate assistant, he should have questioned him further (in his early statement Paterno said he didn't know enough of the details: THEN YOU ASK HIM FOR EVERY DETAIL AS HORRIFYING AS THEY MAY BE) and then at the very least, confronted Sandusky about it.

Ahh, so now Paterno is not only God and the football coach, but also a Pennsylvania criminal investigator.

Let's just continue to heap jobs on this man.

You're right who am I to say how someone should feel. Let just say hypothetically, that you're a moral good person. You're heard story's of this man molesting and raping little boys dating back to 98. Then you are there on the field and this man has brought a boy with him to watch your practices. How comfortable are you right now?

What the fuck are you talking about?

Paterno found out in 2002. Sandusky left Penn State in 1999. What exactly are you wanting Paterno to do?

Paterno has been holding people to a higher standard for years. That's one of the reasons he's such a great coach. Why was Sandusky different?

You're an idiot. Sandusky wasn't fucking THERE in 2002. I already mentioned this, and a simple Google search can reveal the same thing.

And that's the million dollar question. Paterno still had major pull at Penn State in 02, so why didn't he deal with it himself.

Because it's not his fucking job.

God, I can't stand moronic comments like this. Why the fuck should Joe Paterno involve himself in a criminal investigation as the investigator? Do you not understand how fucking stupid you sound when you say that?

Sandusky was gone, Paterno had no control over him any longer. Paterno doesn't decide who the University hires for jobs outside of the football program. Paterno doesn't decide who gets parking passes, who gets offices, etc.

Once Sandusky was no longer on Paterno's staff, Paterno did the only thing he could...report it to the higher ups whose jobs it was to further the investigation.

Once again it's the whole "when good people do nothing" scenario.

Except Paterno didn't "do nothing", he did EXACTLY what he's supposed to do. People higher than him did nothing.

Let's put it this way. If 8 years ago, Sandusky had been arrested because Penn State officials had done their job reacting on the tip from Paterno, would Paterno not have been the hero? Would we not say "hey, look at Coach Paterno, because of him, innocent children were saved"? Of course we would! We'd be celebrating Paterno because his report to Penn State administration put Sandusky behind bars 8 years ago.

So what's the difference between my scenario and reality? The actions of the people he reported to. Holding Paterno to blame for what they didn't do is simply stupid.

By no means is Paterno the major person at fault here, he's just the biggest name.

He's the name sports journalists can use to exploit the abused children for the most money.

These sports journalists who continue to talk about this to make money are a bunch of lowlifes, and I have no use for them. Rick Reilly is the ONLY one I've read from ESPN who has his priorities straight on this one.

He didn't do anything wrong, but he didn't do anything right either, and there in-lines the problem

Bullshit. Paterno did do right. The people whose job it was to take action didn't.

I get so sick of reading how Paterno was wrong, when he did exactly as he should have.

 

[ServantofTwilight]

I get so sick of reading how Paterno was wrong, when he did exactly as he should have.

Once the higher ups he reported this to did nothing Paterno should have went himself to the police. For this to have been going on since 94 and reported 3 different times shows everyone involved is wrong. Paterno included.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

LSN80 touches on this but everyone else here has it wrong.

The question whether or not Paterno should step down/be fired does not lie in any legal, procedural or moral obligation he had to the public, University or the victims. The question lies in how his continuing position as coach and figurehead effects the University and the football program going forward.

Paterno's inaction has lead to a black eye on the program. The sooner he is gone the sooner the University and football program can move forward and build. If you think he should not step down or be fired your opinion is meaningless. As long as there are parents and future recruits that think he should step down and choose to take their talents and abilities to another program then by him staying there, he is damaging to the program.

Not to mention that a program like Penn St. should have had far more success since joining the Big 10. They are falling behind as a program like schools like ND and Miami. Definitely time for a new era.

 

[Slyfox696]

Once the higher ups he reported this to did nothing Paterno should have went himself to the police.

And told them what?

"Hey, Mr. Policeman, a year ago a graduate assistant you've never met (because he's never spoken to you) told me a guy who has not worked for me in nearly half a decade molested a child I cannot identify, nor point you in the right direction of. At the time I was told this, I passed it on to my athletic director, and even though I have no idea what his action on this was, I just thought I should let you know what someone else claimed to have saw."


Seriously, that's what you want Joe Paterno to say? I can only imagine the officer's follow-up questions:

Police: "When did this abuse happen?"

Paterno: "4 years ago"

Police: What was the date of the alleged abuse?

Paterno: I don't know

Police: What is the victim's name?

Paterno: I don't know

Police: What did the AD do?

Paterno: I don't know

Police: Where were you when this happened?

Paterno: I don't know

Police: Why hasn't the man who claimed to have saw it reported it to the police?

Paterno: I don't know


I'm sure it would have been such a helpful interview.

LSN80 touches on this but everyone else here has it wrong.

The question whether or not Paterno should step down/be fired does not lie in any legal, procedural or moral obligation he had to the public, University or the victims. The question lies in how his continuing position as coach and figurehead effects the University and the football program going forward.

Paterno's inaction has lead to a black eye on the program. The sooner he is gone the sooner the University and football program can move forward and build. If you think he should not step down or be fired your opinion is meaningless. As long as there are parents and future recruits that think he should step down and choose to take their talents and abilities to another program then by him staying there, he is damaging to the program.

Not to mention that a program like Penn St. should have had far more success since joining the Big 10. They are falling behind as a program like schools like ND and Miami. Definitely time for a new era.

The problem with your post is the assumption of wrongdoing by Paterno.

If the University, or the police, or the victims' mothers, or the grad assistant had done as they should have, none of this would be an issue, regarding Paterno. But more importantly (in regards to your post), if the media and the University wasn't using Paterno as the fall guy to sell more newspapers and to wash their hands clean of wrongdoing, it wouldn't affect the football program.

This isn't a football program issue. This isn't even a University issue. This is an issue where a bad guy did a bad thing, which was allowed to continue because the people responsible for taking action did not. The only reason Paterno's actions have led to questions regarding his ability to coach is because that's how it's been spun by the media and the University.

Make no mistake about it, if the media had said, "This is an awful thing to happen, and if people would have listened to JoePa earlier, this tragedy could been partly avoided. Why they didn't listen to a man as wise as JoePa, I'll never know," then there would be no question regarding Paterno's ability to lead.


However, that doesn't sell copies. That doesn't attract visitors to your website, and that doesn't sell advertising. So the story becomes "Joe Paterno is the blame for all of the world's problems, simply because he was unwilling to step out of his role as a coach and become a criminal investigator".


No, the position you take is one begging the question.