Joe Paterno = Chris Benoit?

[Steamboat Ricky]

In light of all of the information surfacing in the Freeh report...does Joe Paterno become Chris Benoit at Penn St.? Is he suddenly the guy who was there for so long and did so many great things, only to be completely wiped away from all acknowledgment by the university?

If so...is it deserved? If not...why is it not deserved?

 

[LSN80]

I wanted to bring a little more to the table here, specifically, the dynamics of the Freeh report, and what it states:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...erno-jerry-sandusky_n_1667727.html?ir=College

For those unaware, here are some of the major tenants the Freeh report touched on:

Regarding Graham Spanier, President of the college, Vice President Gary Schultz, AD Tim Curly, and Paterno himself, Freeh wrote:

"These men concealed Sandusky's activities from the Board of Trustees, the University community and authorities.They exhibited a striking lack of empathy for Sandusky's victims by failing to inquire as to their safety and well‐being, especially by not attempting to determine the identity of the child who Sandusky assaulted in the Lasch Building in 2001."

The Freeh report indicated that not only did Paterno and others have knowledge of Sandusky's abuse over a long period of time, they did nothing to stop Sandusky, and worse, help his victims. Can you imagine this happening in the PSU basketball program w an assistant? How about the swim team? No, every effort would be made to get the man out and away. But because, despite Paterno's claims, this was a football scandal, nothing was done. The football program was primary, while the abuse was on the periphary, because the football program came first. Case and point, from the Freeh report.

The report shows that in May of 98, Sandusky sexually assaulted a boy in the Lasch building on the PSU campus. Sandusky was still an employee of Penn State's at the time, as he didn't retire until 1999. The boy's mother confronted Sandusky regarding the incident, asking him if anything improper took place. Sandusky's response, which was being tapped by campus police, said the following:

"I don't think so ... maybe. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."

Keep in mind, this encounter was being tapped by PSU police officers, and a police department detective. The findings were sent to President Graham Schultz, who wondered to AD Tim Curly if this would be "opening Pandora's Box", and also questioned if other children were involved. Emails found between Curly and Schultz indicated they had touched base with Paterno about this as well. But PSU campus police chief Timothy Harmon wanted to "hold off" on making any criminal entries against Sandusky, even though he had, as emails show, met with Sandusky, who acknowledged the abuse.
Further, the report shows that all four men: Spanier, Curley, Schultz, and Paterno failed to alert the Board of Trustees of the college regarding the incident, even though Sandusky admitted to Harmon he had done this to other boys in the past. Further, Schultz informed both Spanier and Curley that the investigation was closed. Sandusky also remained on for another year. Regarding the shower incident, Freeh wrote:

"What's striking about 1998 is nobody even spoke to Sandusky ... including the coach [Paterno] who was steps away from [Sandusky's] office. No one informed other staff not to let Sandusky bring youth into the shower either."

I don't know if Freeh is right. I do know the man is tenacious, has dug up dirt in the past, and has no reason to simply make this up. If Paterno knew as much as the Freeh report claims he did, what choice does Penn State have? He didn't commit the acts himself, but he did the next worst thing: nothing. He, along with Schultz, Spanier, and Curley,l swept it under the rug, because the football program came first. Where is the JoePa who cared so much about his students here? I guess if it wasn't one of "his guys", it didn't concern him as much.

Penn State has to distance themselves from Paterno. Let others remember his legacy and the things he did, because the man did alot of good, both football wise, and as a humanitarian. But he didn't step up when it counted most, he put the football program above the welfare of young boys. That's unforgiveable, no matter how much good he's done. Because Paterno and company did nothing, Sandusky was able to continue to assault young boys on the PSU campus for two more years. How do you not distance yourself from Paterno? Can you seperate his achievements as a coach from what he did as a man? I'm sure alot of us can, but Penn State cannot afford to.

No one person is bigger then any institution. No program, or their scandals, are above the law. Yet, until this surfaced last year, that's exactly what happened at Penn State. And because of this, PSU has to distance themselves from Paterno as much as possible. Here's what Daniel Filler, a law professor at Drexel and a criminal attorney specializing in sexual abuse cases, had to say regarding Penn State football not going to the Board of Trustees regarding the Sandusky abuse:

"Reporting anything to the board would have been letting the genie out of the bottle. Penn State officials were engaged in magical thinking. I think they had fully tricked themselves into believing this wasn't a problem."

This "magical thinking" allowed Sandusky to continue to assault young men without consequence, and without fear of it, essentially. And it was because of a cover-up of epic perportions, one that involved Joe Paterno. It's sad, but it's the legacy PSU has to give Paterno if they hope to ever move on from this. Like Benoit, Paterno can't defend himself from the grave, so we only have the information provided to us to go on. And it's pretty damning, wouldn't you say?

Freeh did have this to say regarding Paterno, and the McQueary incident where he witnessed Sandusky molesting a boy in the shower. After reporting to Paterno what had happened, Paterno said this:

You did what you had to do. It is my job now to figure out what we want to do.

Yet it was revealed by the Freeh report that Paterno did very little, despite it being "his job" to figure out what to do. Paterno acknowledged as much in a written statement issued on November 9, 2011. Freeh wrote the following regarding it:

Paterno reported what he was told about the 2001 incident to Penn State authorities" -- meaning Curley, Schultz, and Spanier -- "and he believed it would be fully investigated. To his credit, Mr. Paterno stated on November 9, 2011, 'With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.'"

Yeah, he should have. Paterno isn't a detective. He's not a police officer. He was the football coach. But when he saw nothing being done, and that Sandusky remained free to come and go as he pleased, it was time to step up. The "sanctity" of a football program isn't worth more then the health and well-being of young men. These four(Curley, Schultz, Spanier and Paterno) obviously felt otherwise. As a result, alot of damage was done to innocent young men. Why shouldn't some of that be taken out of Paterno's legacy? Here's my big question:

Why shouldn't the statue in Paterno's honor come down?

 

[Larry]

That's quite a fine piece of writing both editorial and straight news-wise LSN.

I think one has to agree with everything you've said, fan or not. Paterno knew damn well what was going on as has been noted, but stood by and let it happen because college football was more important. I'm sure he thought he was protecting the school and the program, or at least I'd imagine that's how he rationalized his actions in his own mind at some point. It's the only thing I could think of to make someone turn a blind eye. Either that or the fact of the matter just becomes that he simply didn't give a shit about the boys affected and it didn't matter to him because he had "more important things" to worry about. I think you are right about PSU needing to separate themselves from Paterno to move on and gain back some kind of dignity or closure to the situation. Otherwise it stands as a stain on their legacy for all to see and never forget. That statue you mentioned would serve as a reminder to everyone who stepped foot on those grounds of the guy who let arguably the biggest scandal in college football, fly under the radar, every time they saw it. The two would always be connected. I honestly don't know how you recover from something like this or ever separate yourself from it, even if you distance yourself from the parties. I doubt people go to Virginia Tech without thinking about the shootings there, I doubt people drive by Columbine High School without remembering what happened there, and so on and so on.

I'm totally with you on this one and I'd have to ask someone to bring some serious argument as to why Paterno's statue SHOULDN'T come down. It was put there in his honor, but that's the word I want to emphasize here: Honor. This man's honor has been destroyed. Forget what he did on the football field, this is LIFE we're talking about, and the lives of others he let someone else scar and damage. There is no honor in that, and no justification for it. Whether he kept a great public image or not is now irrelevant, because we know the truth, that the public image was a ruse, and the real man behind the mystique was an enabler, who allowed a predator to run wild on the innocent. He dishonored himself, what he did is in no way deserving of a statue to honor him.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

I personally think Paterno is worse than Benoit.

Benoit fucked his brain up by entertaining us every night. What I know about brain trauma, me personally I can forgive him for what he did. Thats just me though. He didn't kill my kid. I could understand if others can't forgive him.

This whole Paterno/Penn State/Freeh Report is just sickening that these people witness something like this in the process, and don't do anything about it because of their jobs. What the fuck was wrong with these people?

I wouldn't put Benoit on these peoples level. He didn't sexually assault anyone.

 

[Big Sexy]

Joe Pa = Chris Benoit, really? Are you fucking kidding me? You are comparing a man who murdered his wife and child to a man who did what he was legally obligated to do. In hindsight should he have done more? Of course, but people still seem to think that Joe Paterno ran everything that is Penn State. Last time I checked he was not the AD, he was not the President of the school, he didn't work for campus police, and starting in 1999 Sandusky was no longer a member of his staff meaning Paterno had no control over him.

Paterno reported what he was supposed to and he reported it to the people that should have made sure the issue was resolved. Paterno's job was to run the football team and win games. His job was not to be Nancy Drew and solve "The Mystery of the Molested Children."

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Part of what Big Sexy said is exactly what I don't get about the argument I have heard constantly about Paterno being the most powerful guy in Pennsylvania. It is just ridiculous to think that in my opinion. If he was the most powerful guy in the state, then why the hell does PA have senators? Paterno isn't judge, jury, and executioner. I heard more condemnation for him than I have for even Sandusky. All the important people at Penn State could have done more and I agree with that. However, I refuse to make Joe more of a perpetrator than any of them because there were people in a higher position of authority. I don't see this as a Chris Benoit situation at all.

 

[Arashi]

Joe Pa = Chris Benoit, really? Are you fucking kidding me? You are comparing a man who murdered his wife and child to a man who did what he was legally obligated to do. In hindsight should he have done more? Of course, but people still seem to think that Joe Paterno ran everything that is Penn State. Last time I checked he was not the AD, he was not the President of the school, he didn't work for campus police, and starting in 1999 Sandusky was no longer a member of his staff meaning Paterno had no control over him.

Except Sandusky had access to the University thanks to Joe Paterno and didn't have his access taken away even AFTER alleged sexual misconduct on campus.

Paterno reported what he was supposed to and he reported it to the people that should have made sure the issue was resolved. Paterno's job was to run the football team and win games. His job was not to be Nancy Drew and solve "The Mystery of the Molested Children."

Except you're ignoring the fact that he could be brought up on charges of perjury, conspiracy and child endangerment if he was alive. Paterno said he knew nothing about any previous accusations( prior 2001) of child molestation by Sandusky and he said no. The Freeh says he did, it also said he actively concealed Sandusky's activities.

Also it's said that some of the men involved in the case were going to report Sandusky but after talking to Paterno they changed their minds. If the Freeh report is factual which I have little to no doubt that it is, he was a huge part of a cover up at Penn State to protect the university from bad publicity.

The fact is that the three other's who were are a part of this will most likely go to prison, which means that if Joe Paterno was alive, he most likely would as well. So, to claim that he had no further responsibility to these children and the state of Pennsylvania is a bit of a stretch.

He allowed young children to be abused by a monster, and did nothing about it. At the very least Paterno knew that the other three Curly, Schulz, and Spanier weren't doing their jobs and he allowed young children to be abused.

 

[Giddy]

Paterno's job was to run the football team and win games. His job was not to be Nancy Drew and solve "The Mystery of the Molested Children."

This is pretty much saying that his job coaching football is more important than his job as a person. Those children will be affected forever, and he could've done something about it. These kids lives are forever more important than a game. In the end, that's what football is- a game. People care about it, yes, hell I care about it, but anyone's first priority in a situation like this should be to help these kids in need.

 

[Big Sexy]

Except Sandusky had access to the University thanks to Joe Paterno and didn't have his access taken away even AFTER alleged sexual misconduct on campus.

Once again, Joe Pa did not run Penn State University. Sandusky was given an office at the athletic facility by the University, not Paterno. Joe Pa had no authority over Sandusky once he was off his staff in 1999.

Except you're ignoring the fact that he could be brought up on charges of perjury, conspiracy and child endangerment if he was alive. Paterno said he knew nothing about any previous accusations( prior 2001) of child molestation by Sandusky and he said no. The Freeh says he did, it also said he actively concealed Sandusky's activities.

He may have been charged but with a competent lawyer he would have likely gotten off on all accounts except maybe lying to the Grand Jury. The emails in the report that supposedly incriminate Paterno were not sent or received by Joe Pa himself. They were emails from higher ups in the University that happen to mention Paterno a couple times and are very vague with his involvement. If he did have knowledge of the 1998 investigation like is being reported then he didn't give that info to the Grand Jury. However, let's not forget that no charges were filed in the 1998 investigation so what exactly was he supposed to do then?

This is pretty much saying that his job coaching football is more important than his job as a person. Those children will be affected forever, and he could've done something about it. These kids lives are forever more important than a game. In the end, that's what football is- a game. People care about it, yes, hell I care about it, but anyone's first priority in a situation like this should be to help these kids in need.

And as a person he reported what he was told to the proper channels. Paterno never witnessed anything that Sandusky did. He allegedly knew about the incident in 1998 but no charges were filed. He was told about the early 2000's incident and reported what he was told to his higher ups who had the ability to really handle the situation. In hindsight he should have done more to follow up but if the powers that be wanted this scandal to be swept under the rug then that is what was going to happen regardless.

Paterno has become public enemy number one when in reality he is the smallest part of this scandal. People say he could have stopped this but how exactly was he going to do that? The only knowledge he had of Sandusky's actions was what a grad assistant told him and allegedly he also knew about the 1998 investigated incident where no criminal charges were filed and where the investigation ended up with nothing. Did you all want Paterno to go to his bosses and say "Hey I want you put the hammer down on Sandusky. I know I have never seen him do anything, the 1998 investigation came up empty, and all I have is a vague story from a grad assistant, but goddamnit that vague story should be enough." Maybe he should have but hindsight is always 20/20. People need to stop making Paterno out to be public enemy number one and he certainly shouldn't be compared to someone who murdered his own wife and child.

 

[Arashi]

And as a person he reported what he was told to the proper channels. Paterno never witnessed anything that Sandusky did. He allegedly knew about the incident in 1998 but no charges were filed. He was told about the early 2000's incident and reported what he was told to his higher ups who had the ability to really handle the situation. In hindsight he should have done more to follow up but if the powers that be wanted this scandal to be swept under the rug then that is what was going to happen regardless.

But had Paterno wanted it NOT to be swept under the rug he could've stopped it. Paterno goes to the police I promise you it wouldn't have been swept under the rug, and btw what about Curly, Schulz, and Spanier coming forward didn't you read in my post? It was only after they spoke to Joe that they decided not to. It was his willingness to put the football program before children that is my problem which he clearly did.

Paterno has become public enemy number one when in reality he is the smallest part of this scandal. People say he could have stopped this but how exactly was he going to do that? The only knowledge he had of Sandusky's actions was what a grad assistant told him and allegedly he also knew about the 1998 investigated incident where no criminal charges were filed and where the investigation ended up with nothing. Did you all want Paterno to go to his bosses and say "Hey I want you put the hammer down on Sandusky. I know I have never seen him do anything, the 1998 investigation came up empty, and all I have is a vague story from a grad assistant, but goddamnit that vague story should be enough." Maybe he should have but hindsight is always 20/20. People need to stop making Paterno out to be public enemy number one and he certainly shouldn't be compared to someone who murdered his own wife and child.

There was child molestation happening in the building he was in and he did nothing to check it out. He didn't even make Sandusky give up his access to the University. How can you let someone who's even accused of that have access to your shower with young boys? Even if you don't believe it, you can't be that stupid. It looks horrible, Paterno is the biggest name in Penn State history, he hid this, flat out. He didn't care about the children, he only care that his football team wasn't hurt.

 

[Big Sexy]

But had Paterno wanted it NOT to be swept under the rug he could've stopped it. Paterno goes to the police I promise you it wouldn't have been swept under the rug, and btw what about Curly, Schulz, and Spanier coming forward didn't you read in my post? It was only after they spoke to Joe that they decided not to. It was his willingness to put the football program before children that is my problem which he clearly did.

And this is according to vague emails that were not sent or recieved by Paterno. You don't know what was actually said in those conversations. Besides, Curly, Schultz, and Spanier, were Joe Pa's superiors. If they wanted something done then it would have been done.

There was child molestation happening in the building he was in and he did nothing to check it out. He didn't even make Sandusky give up his access to the University. How can you let someone who's even accused of that have access to your shower with young boys? Even if you don't believe it, you can't be that stupid. It looks horrible, Paterno is the biggest name in Penn State history, he hid this, flat out. He didn't care about the children, he only care that his football team wasn't hurt.

This is the third time I've had to say this but here it is again. JOE PATERNO DID NOT RUN THE UNIVERSITY. He had zero authority to ban Sandusky from anything once Sandusky was no longer part of his staff in 1999.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Joe Pa = Chris Benoit, really? Are you fucking kidding me?

Um, no I'm not kidding you. But perhaps you didn't actually read the original post or blatantly ignored what it said.

I don't believe I ever compared Benoit's misdeeds with Paterno's with the exception of how they end up impacting each figure's standing within the framework of their former employers moving forward. You know how Benoit is continually and obviously ignored by WWE when it refers to its history? I was posing the question of whether or not the same fate would come for the legacy of Paterno.

And....continue.

 

[Big Sexy]

I read the post but the actions of the two men in question certainly contribute to the question that you are posing. Chris Benoit was a very good performer and a popular superstar but he was not an elite level guy in the wrestling industry. He was never going to be known as one of the greatest of all time like Paterno is in college football. The actions of Benoit are also a lot worse then anything Paterno is being accused of.

It has already been decided that the Paterno statue is staying and there is no way you can forget his legacy. The success, longevity, and impact he had cannot be forgotten. Benoit on the other hand murdered his wife and child and was no where near the success or legend in wrestling that Paterno was in college football. The two men and two situations really are not comparable. So no, Paterno will not suffer the same fate as Benoit.