OMG your over 40..... You should retire

[Mr Delinquent]

Hi there folks, this is my first thread and I thought I would start with something that has been annoying me in the last few weeks.

Before I start, I watch both Tna and Wwe so there is no bias to what I am about to say.

In the last few weeks, I started coming onto the forum section of this website and even registered for an account. Ever since I did that I have been seeing certain articles about wrestlers such as Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan and about how they are "tarnishing their legacy" and that "they have no business inside a wrestling ring"

This confuses me because why does it matter how old a guy is? Why can't a guy like Flair (arguably one of the best all round wrestlers ever) keep wrestling if he wants? People go on about him mocking the Wwe by continuing to wrestle after the retirement that they gave him, but in all seriousness he didn't want to retire from in ring anyway, he said so himself. Yes, they did give him a fairytale ending to his Wwe career what with his retirement angle and his hall of fame induction but if the guy wants to keep going who are we to say he can't.

Funnily enough, no one bats an eyelid when Bret Hart or Vince Mcmahon gets into the ring and Vince is older than all the wrestlers and Bret has had a stroke.

I think the question here is, how old is too old?

Cheers.

 

[RicoLen]

It's fine to continue wrestling way past your prime. I think if I were a wrestler I might do it too. However, it CAN tarnish your legacy if you make a bad step.

Imagine Hulk Hogan having retired and stepped away from wrestling in say 1998 after his loss to Goldberg. No fingerpoke of doom, perhaps no reality show deal, no return in 2002, no TNA. People would be looking at him a whole lot differently.

Ric Flair has done amazing things with his career, however I will never get the image of a 60+ fat, flabby, Ric Flair in his underwear sitting on the top turnbuckle. It's a negative mark against him that wouldn't have been if he had retired sooner.

I DO bat an eyelid when Bret Hart gets into the ring to wrestle. No stroke victim should be wrestling. Obviously Bret's getting protected, he's not going to be taking bumps, but without that the match suffers.

It's kind of like saying "quit while you're ahead." Some guys can pull off a pretty good late career in the ring, other guys, not so much. I don't begrudge a guy making the choice to keep going, but I'm also not going to hold back judgment if the moves they make are very much below the standard they set earlier.

 

[Lugar]

To me its not a question of age. Hogan can hardly move without a back brace and if you look at Flair to hard he bleeds. In their primes Hogan and Flair could both have solid matches with just about anyone. Now its kind of sad to watch them in the ring remembering their primes, or even just past their primes. And that is what makes them too old to me.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

Even though I hated the hart vs vince match at at Wrestlemania 26, It wasn't maeant for wrestling it was meant to finish off a the most personal feud in wretling history.

Wrestlers over 40 don't suck. They never have sucked.

 

[mikde_]

It's not that they suck it's that they should realise in order for the buissness and industry to progress then they need to step out of the light and let the younger talent shine. In TNA this is not happening and personally im really happy now that WWE wont sign any guy over 40 to a contract anymore.

Like paul heyman said, if you have so many older guys on your show then it takes any credibillity away from them. If you have 1 then he stands out more. He also said if you are watching a show full of old guys you are never thinking "Oh man i cant wait to see what this guy is gonna be like in a years time" you are thinking "Oh man back in the day..." and no good can come from that.

Many many wrestlers are smart enough to step back and move on because they have a true passion for the buissness and understand that you need to move on and let the next generation come through. Some guys dont really care about the buissness as much as they say. They care about making themselves look good so they stay in a job and stay relevant and that type of selfish mindset is whats killing TNA and thank god WWE are smart enough to not let that happen.

 

[Alex]

I think its a matter if someone can still have a respectable match and look good while doing it.

Look at it this way Shawn Michaels and Undertaker have had two of the greatest matches in recent memory at Wrestlemania 25 and 26 and both of them are in their mid forties and generally people say their great and can still go etc and they look good while doing it. And don't forget Kurt Angle, the guy over 40 who can still put pretty much every wrestler to shame.

Then you have guys like Ric Flair (and to an extent) Sting who while they can still put on decent matches don't look good doing it (Flair's old flabby skin, Sting in a baggy t-shirt occasionally)

The you have guys like Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart, two guys who could go in their prime but not now for various reasons (surgery, stroke etc)

Usually age does have something to do with this, general wear and tear and your body doesn't really recover from injuries as quickly as used to meaning you can't have matches like you used to.

 

[¡Roján!]

Wrestlers over 40 are fine by me. Heck, Jericho, Rey Mysterio, Christian and Kane (some of my favourite wrestlers) are all over 40 or getting there. But, it's when you get tohe 50s, 60s and more importantly, the 60s you're taking it too far. For starters, your ability to put on a good match is decreasing constantly to the point where you can barely run. What good is that to fans? All washed-up wrestlers do is ride their legacies until the pick them to the barebone where no-one even cares what they say. A special appearance here and there is fine and maybe an active member of the roster as a manager or authority figure, yes, but when you're wrestling you're putting yourself in danger and others.

And, you're point about why Ric Flair is hated, I don't think it's so much the fact that he's still wrestling, I think it's the fact that WWE gave him a fitting retirement and farewell. It's sort of disrespectful to both Shawn Michaels and Vince that he goes and wrestles for someone else.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Their is a big difference between talking about wrestlers in their 40's as opposed to the whole Hogan & Flair in TNA debate. Hogan, never a great in ring performer to begin with, is practically crippled. Flair still does big bumps but is slow, getting injury prone, and can't stay in shape (it's hard to keep those arms & chest toned when you're in your 60's!!!!) - They simply do not look good.

As far being in your 40's, Sting is in his early 50's and has had some pretty good matches this year. Triple H & Undertaker are both a lot closer to 50 than 30 and both can still perform at a high level, just watch last year's WrestleMania.

HBK was in his mid 40's when he won three Pro Wrestling Illustrated Match of The Year Awards or his bouts at WM 24, 25, & 26 - Incidentally he was wrestling with one guy in his late 50's and another guy in his mid 40's so age alone was not enough to ruin those performances.

I remember Flair having some excellent matches in his early to mid 40's, Royal Rumble 92, WM 8 when he was 42 and 43 believe, he wrestled a very good 60 minute Iron Man Match vs Hart in Jan 93 - Performed well vs Vader in 93 & 94 as he was hitting 44, carried Hogan in two of The Hulkster's most entertaining matches ever in July-Aug 94.

Flair was 46 I believe when he had the great match on Nitro in 96 vs Eddie Guerrero (so glad it FINALLY made it on a DVD release, searched for it for years), Flair's matches vs Jef Jarrett when he was hitting 50 in 2000 were also very good. Performance wise I think his WCW title loss vs Jarret was better than his victory that year.

Flair had some very good matches vs Chris Jericho in 2002 when he was around 53, and his WM performance vs Undertaker that year was one of the most memorable of either man's career.

Flair was 56 I believe when did his TLC Match vs Edge, considered one of the better TLC Matches ever, and definatley considered among Edge's most entertaining bouts.

Fact is, great performers have enough skill that they an compensate for some of the athletic skills that decline or slow with age and still do great or at least very good matches. Flair & KBK are two great examples of that.

There is a point where either your injuries (like with Brett Hart) or the decline with age (like Flair today) takes away so much that there isn't enough you can still do to mask the decline and still be really entertaining. Usually though, at least in wrestling, 40's is not that mark for most guys.

 

[iwinulose]

guys wrestling past there prime is ok, but after awhile you have to stop. once a wrestler hits 40 thats normally when their careers should start slowing down, less traveling, no more performing every night, slightly less major bumps, ect. see the thing with flair and hogan is, their bodies cant take it any more. they arent physically capable of getting into a ring. hogan has had several back surgeries, and flair is way to old. yes this tarnishes their legacy cause they shouldnt be in the ring. like seriously, a wrestlers own well being has to come first at some point, and when they have had several surgeries, or are in their 50's (not to bad pending on the wear and tear of their bodies) and (even worse) their 60's they gotta stop. really all the people complaining and talking negative about these guys for stepping into the ring are only doing so cause they acually give a crap about these guys.

 

[Defekt]

I don't think there is any exact age limit for when a wrestler should quit.

Hell, Jericho and Batista are both over 40 and most people would agree they've retired too soon. Both look great and were still having awesome matches when they left. While we're at it, Shawn Micheals was 45 when he retired, and no one wanted to see him go.

People only complain about guys being old when they start looking bad, or can't work anymore. It also doesn't help when a promotion gets top heavy with older guys and fail to elevate the younger stars (WCW).

But yeah, if you stick around long enough, you're bound to slow down and inevitably, it will change the way people remember you. There's something said for going out on top.

 

[The Brain]

There is no reason to think a wrestler should retire when he reaches 40. I’d rather watch a 40 year old than a 20-25 year old. The 40 year old has experience and looks like a man instead of some hot shot punk kid. A few people have already listed some examples of guys who did well after 40 but I want to expand on that a little.

Ric Flair: turned 40 in 1989. This means he was already 40 for the famous series of matches against Ricky Steamboat and over forty before he came to the WWF the first time.

Randy Savage and Hulk Hogan: turned 40 in 1992 and 1993 respectively. This means both were over 40 before they ever stepped foot in WCW.

Shawn Michaels and Undertaker: turned 40 in 2005. This means both were already in their mid 40s when they delivered the classic match at WM25.

Chris Jericho: turned 40 in 2010. Even the God of the wrestlezone forums is now 40 and people have been begging for his return nonstop since he left last year.

Now if a wrestler’s body is starting to break down and they are living in constant pain then they should consider retirement. However, that should apply at any age instead of the arbitrary number of 40. Steve Austin, Mick Foley, and Edge all had to retire before 40 due to injuries accumulated over the years. 40 is just a nice round number but it is not an expiration date. Everybody is different and some are capable of wrestling well past 40 while others are not.

 

[Dagger Dias]

The negative comments toward guys like Hogan or Flair are less about their age and more about how they can't really work good matches anymore. If someone was 40+ and can still work good matches then they deserve to keep going. Undertaker is great example. He's old but people still drool over his Wrestlemania angles. Steamboat is another good example. He's old but he proved in 2009 that he can still work a good match. Hogan is far past his prime and that is why he tarnishes his legacy if he has other matches. Flair is not far behind him, but he tarnished his legacy in a different way. He retired and got an awesome sendoff, but then he started wrestling again. That rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Age is not the problem because if someone is old and can still work a match then I don't mind. If someone is too old to wrestle anymore, that's different. They have to be able to work a halfway decent match, otherwise they will get the negative treatment from fans who think they are "too old" now.

 

[Lugar]

Looking back at my earlier post I realise I was not being clear.

I mentioned Flair and Hogan as being too old to wrestle on a consistent basis. This is down to injuries in Hogans case and general age in Flairs case

Flair however is over 60. In his early to mid 40's he was still having 4 or 5 star matches and was golden on the mic. Now he's a shadow of himself in the ring and is incoherent on the mic.

However HBK, Taker, Jericho and others are/were able to perform in their 40's and Finley was better in his 50's then he was when I was a kid and he was 'fit' Finley in the early 80's. And Thez was having decent matches in his late 50's early 60's

What I'm trying to point out is there is no need for a general retirement age but the wrestlers themselves need to realise that in some cases they are making themselves look really bad in fans eyes.

 

[poppycock]

I agree with anybody who wrote it is more to do with "is such and such still entertaining to watch" rather than age. Age does slow people down but a lot of the older wrestlers I enjoy watching were not exactly lightning quick to begin with. I can't personally decide what shape a wrestler is in because obviously I am not said wrestler and only they know if they are fit enough to still give a good match. Some wrestlers are obviously not in any shape to entertain anymore as far as putting on a match goes but they still get in the ring and the cracks show up..especially if they used to be talented. I don't think anybody has the right to say sombody should retire though because only the wrestler should make that choice. I remember reading a post here yesterday where a poster said they compare the old wrestlers today with the even older ones that tried to come back or carry on through the mid 90's/Attitude Era.. a lot of them nomatter how great or iconic they once where just could not really be taken too seriously so is that how the younger generation view Flair, Sting and perhaps even Undertaker?

I love watching the wrestlers I grew up with still going at it but have in the past looked upon the Backlunds and those alike as somewhat of a joke at the time despite how great they once were.

Anyway I think if a wrestler is going to retire it should not be down to age but down to do they still have it.

 

[harrythem]

I think a lot of the hatred towards Flair isn't so much because he came back from retirement....most wrestlers come back from retirement so that could be expected really.

The real problem, as I see it anyway, is because it's Ric Flair...Check the old matches, watch the old DVDs, the guy was a frickin great wrestler. The memories from what he could do were amazing.

Then think of the send off he got. Was the best send-off WWE ever did and, yet, he came back and wrestled in really bad matches where the only thing he can still do is cut himself, figure four, the Flair flop and the flip off the top rope (and even that he can't land on his back anymore).

So, I see it as more match quality then the fact he went back on the retirement vibe...I mean, if Shawn Michaels came back after the send off he got no-one would complain, because it's well known he can still have a good-great match...

And, it's more painful watching "The Immortal" Hulk Hogan, the man that made wrestling explode. Who was a super-hero who could never look weak, never be beaten....hobbling to the ring with a ruined back and looking so worn out and tired...I don't want to see that, I always want Hogan to be the Hogan at his peak.

 

[Scuba 06]

You know who else is 40 and stills works a pretty good match from time to time. Oh yeah she's pretty hot too. If you said Tara or Victoria, you are correct. Isn't that something, you don't see too many female wrestlers continue to perform at that age in their careers. Got to say she really dosent even look that old, although I knew she was in her late thirties in recent years but just happened to realize she is 40 as of this year. Kind of cool cause she's in a class of her own in this regard.

 

[Reflection]

wwe do that occasionally; you don't see Hart, Taker or McMahon wrestle for anything more than 10 days combined. TNA on the other hand, makes Sting, Flair and Hogan wrestle way more than that, which is a matter of shame, and at times, the hate towards TNA seems inevitable. Your scriptwriting sucks, your company swallows. you cannot just force the legends to go out there and tear their bodies apart in an attempt to make money for your stupid company.