Everyone on here knows I'm probably the biggest mark for Heath. I love the guy with his upbeat energy and his fun overall look. However I do not think he will win NXT. Heath is good and all, but I don't think he will be a star. I see him as nothing more than a midcarder, much like Christian was during his first run in the E. I would love to see Heath win, it would bring me nothing but joy, but I just don't see it happening.
[OFFICIAL] Heath Slater / Christian Thread
- Thread starter D-Man
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Correction, he's 4-2, was defeated by Kane and a loss in the battle royal counted as a loss.
And quite honestly, he doesn't have the best pro if you ask me, in my opinion Wade Barrett has the best pro, Christian is just over as hell, Jericho is the guy to go to for good talent building if you ask me, Jericho makes you look gold.
And I don't really see Heath winning it, he might get a good position, final 4 or so, and he'll probably get a contract eventually cause he seems pretty over with the NXT crowd, but I see someone like Barrett, Otunga or Daniel Bryan winning this.
Nicole13Edge/HardyFan
Future Diva, Womans and Divas champ
Ferbian thanks for pointing out that he is 4-2 I forgot about the Battle Royal but that is still the best record for a rookie.
Why does everyone say that he will only be a mid-carder or not win. I mean he is the best out there. I think that if he does win and he will probley get a contract whether he wins or not because he is way over with the crowd he can be a main-eventer. He has the look, talent and mic skills to be a main-eventer and he can keep people enterested in a match. So why would you think that all he is going to be is a mid-carder?
Why does everyone say that he will only be a mid-carder or not win. I mean he is the best out there. I think that if he does win and he will probley get a contract whether he wins or not because he is way over with the crowd he can be a main-eventer. He has the look, talent and mic skills to be a main-eventer and he can keep people enterested in a match. So why would you think that all he is going to be is a mid-carder?
I'm gonna have to correct that too, seeing as Darren Young, David Otunga, and Justin Gabriel has the exact same scores.
And even with the win / loss record it's clearly not gonna be something that'll have the pro's "vote for him" seeing as Daniel Bryan is on number 1...
What? You can't be serious. Slater will NOT be eliminated first because he has the best win/loss record out of any rookie and had the fastest time in this week's challenge. I think that he will at least make it to the final four. If anyone's in danger of getting eliminated first, it's Tarver.
And Slater doesn't? He has the best win/loss ratio. I'm pretty sure that counts for something. As well as having the fastest time in the keg carrying race this week. That little upset, along with his impressive win/loss ratio absolutely counts as him "having something".
Christian praised Slater. Maybe not as much as Jericho for Barrett, but he has.
Fair enough.
Bryan has not won any titles yet, that result is still only a rumor.
So? Young is still in last place.
That's one move. Evan Bourne was over for his finisher too, look where he is now.
Tarver will be eliminated first because he sucks and has done nothing impressive outside of the promo this week. Plus his pro is Carlito, he was doomed from day one. Slater might not win NXT but there's no way he will be eliminated first because he has been impressive onscreen unlike some of the other rookies.
I agree, there's no way in hell Slater's going home first. However for the purposes of this post, I'll argue the case for him being eliminated third.
No he doesnt. He has the same record as Otunga, Young and Gabriel. Not to mention that the win loss record is irrelavent, given that the number one rookie has yet to win a match.
That's barely ralavent. It didn't add to his W/L record, he lost against Kane in the ME, and it was a silly segment.
Agreed, he's in with a shot at the final 4 (henceforth reffered to as the F4). Though he's vying for the last place against in their against Otunga. This is because Wade, Gabriel and Bryan are dead certs to be in their. Otunga will probably get in over Slater though, for reasons that'll be made clear later.
Agreed. Skip, Tarver and Young are all going to get eliminated before Slater, who'll get eliminated in week 15.
It hasn't counted for anything since he lost in the battle royale. And since he's also sharing his record with Darren Young, it counts for even less now.
Barely ralavent the first time you mentioned it, barely relavent now.
His win loss record is even less relavent than his win in the Keg carrying contest. Since Bryan's no. 1 and winless, and half the rookies are 4-2.
Right, that matters how? Christian cant vote for him, and as of right now, he's got nothing over the poeple who stand a chance of getting to the F4. Otunga's got the look, Gabe's got the splash, Bryan's got the skills, Barrett's got it all. What's Slater got got that they dont? He's worse in the ring than Barrett Bryan and (debatably) Gabriel, less charismatic than Barrett and Otunga, has a worse look than Barrett and Otunga and has less character any of them. In short he has NOTHING for the crowd to get behind, and no reason for them to cheer/boo him. Bryan's the skillful underdog who the crowd can root for (he's got precious little charisma, but his underdog character makes up for it), Gabriel's got the flashy move(s) that the crowd can give a 'holy shit' pop for. Otunga's got the looks, the personality and the charisma to pull off being a cocky heel. Barrett... read my essay on the man. Suffice to say, Slater is worse than him in every way. Slater right now has nothing exceptional about him. Except for a stupid haircut.
Right, the rookie who's ranked number one, wrestled every week, wrestled two (former) world champions, got more segments than anybody else in the early shows, has been the focus of commentary the show in general, and having a storyline being made for him if he wins NXT ISN'T being pushed heavily and isn't likely to win NXT and the US title.
with the samr incredably relavent win loss record as Slater. Argue his merits over the others with an actual shot of making the F4.
Note how Gabriel is more over than Daniel Bryan. And how that 450 splash is one of two established finishers on NXT. And how Slater has absolutely nothing going for him. Gabriel may be a one trick pony, but that's one trick more than Slater's got.
You're right, Tarver/Young/Skip will be eliminated first (the order doesnt matter). They're unimportant, and are there to make up the numbers. Slater will be eliminated last and has an outside shot at making the F4 over Otunga. Right now, Otunga has something over Slater (looks and mic skills), wheras Slater has niether of those in excess and is mediocre in the ring (i.e. his wrestling superriority over Otunga doesnt matter, since he's still average and worse than the other 3 in the F4).
That sounds about right. I predict he'll make the final 4, or get 5th place.
Win/loss records do matter, but so does the quality of their opponents. Slater's only losses are a multi-man battle royal where his odds of winning were 8 to 1, and a singles match against Kane. Bryan has lost to Jericho who was World Champion at the time and guys like Khali. Otunga, Young, and Gabriel have been losing to their peers. That puts Slater's and Bryan's quality of opponents rankings higher.
Yes, he lost to Kane.... but Kane is already a member of the WWE roster and in the kayfabe perspective, none of the NXT guys are. That meant he had a more difficult match.
I almost agreed with that. I'd replace Gabriel with Otunga. Bryan, Barrett, and Otunga are surely going to make the final 4, with Slater fighting for that final spot in the final 4.
Agreed. Tarver, Young, then Skip. I think it will be in that order. After that, who knows. Slater'll get 4th or 5th I bet.
Slater's odds of winning that match was only 12.5% (1 out of 8) His only other loss comes to a professional. Young has lost to other rookies.
His win/loss record and his keg carrying contest win are both relevant because he has yet to lose to one of his peers in a match other than a match involding all of them, and his contest win was an upset. Unexpected wins give you positive momentum.
You're right. He's going to have to fight for that 4th spot. He needs to get a finisher and improve a bit in the ring. His mic skills and his look can't carry him to the end of this contest. He doesn't stick out in any particular area other than determination and gaining unexpected victories. I'm not saying he's the best, he's not. I'm saying he's better than some people claim he is.
How about determination? Or winning when people think he won't? Those are both great reasons to cheer for someone.
Yes, we have already covered the fact that Slater must fight for the 4th final 4 spot.
I did read your essay on Barrett, You did a good job. Now back on topic.... The one place where Slater beats Barrett is determination. Fans can get behind him as a face. He could (kayfabe) defeat Barrett in an upset win. I agree that Barrett has Slater beat in in-ring ability as well as promos and his look.
I happen to think his haircut looks cool.
Pretty much, yes.
Already covered how quality of opponents counts as well. A loss to Kane is more impressive match than a loss to another rookie.
Remember Evan Bourne's impressive run on ECW? Gabriel's the next Evan Bourne. You can't get over on just one "OMG!" finisher. He'll be jobbing once he hits Raw/Smackdown.
Yes.... I do agree, as I have stated numerous times, that I think Slater will have a tough time making 4th place because he needs improvement in several areas. I think he can still pull it off. Anyone who thinks he's getting 7th or 8th though is probably just saying that out of dislike for Slater.
glad we agree. Moving on.
He's also lost to his peers.
I'll concede that his losses were in matches harder to win than normal. Still doesnt make his 4-2 record any better than theirs. the 'quality of opponent' sure, but that's a separate section.
Very true. Kane kicked all of the NXT guys' asses. Even when they attacked him 6 on 1. Slater did better in his singles match than in the glorified squash though.
Disagree. Gabriel's over in his own right (he outpops Bryan), and he's just better than Slater. The only question about the F4 is if Vince thinks Otunga is too green to recieve a quarter of the spotlight. If Vince thinks he is, Slater isn't getting in. If Vince thinks he isn't good enough in the ring, Slater's in. That's how it's going in my opinion.
The order of the first three dont matter. Slater is coming 4th or 5th. Depending on Vince's virdict of Otunga.
Very true. That's a tick in his quality of opponent box, although not his win loss record. Which is unexceptional.
That's true, he's undefeated by the rookies.
The problem was that the momentum he got from winning the keg race was pretty much put to a halt when he was destroyed by Kane. And because the keg race wont add much to his overall rating, it wont help him in the long run at all. The point of the challenges seems to be 'you win, you get a reward which gives you a chance to improve your standing' not 'you win, you enhance your standing and get a reward'. You're scored on Wins and loses, quality of opponent, look and X-Factor. Running with kegs makes you look better in none of those areas.
Glad we're in agreement
He's undoubtedly better than people (including myself) make him out to be. That's not saying much, because although he's above average, he's worse than whoever he replaces to get into the F4.
Playing the underdog works great if you've got something else for the crowd to get behind. Look at Jeff Hardy and Rey Mysterio, whose main event pushes were baised on being underdogs. Jeff got the crowd behind him with his charisma and high risk moves, Rey did it with his moves. To reiterate, you cant be a successful underdog unless you can get the crowd behind you in the first place. Slater has yet to demonstrate he can do it with his in ring skills, and outside of shaking his head, hasn't been all that charismatic. Not saying he isn't, good enough in the ring or charismatic enough but hhe hasn't shown it.
I was listing the roles that the other four competitors take up, and I refered to my essay because I'd already analysed Barrett in depth already. THe point remains that they all have all shown they belong in the WWE ring competing for gold.
Putting aside that Barrett doesnt need to be uber determined, and stubborn. If stubornly refusing to be pinned is all Slater has over Barrett (who's not missing out on a place in the F4), he shouldn't be on there. Charisma and ring skills are what puts the other candidates in there. determination without an upside is worthless.
Yes he could. So could any of the rookies. And Justin Gabriel did this in week 3 I believe.
glad we're on the same page regarding the Barrett situation. If you could make a good case for Slaters inclusion over Otunga or Gabriel, rather than someone we both agree is going nowhere close to the cutting room floor. I wasn't intending for you to debate his merits. I mentioned my essay for the sole reason that I was pointing out that each of the others with a shot of making the F4 have something in excess that Slater lacks (not that determination isn't important in an underdog), and as I went into detail in my Barrett essay I thought I might aw well mention that rather than break the flow of the narrative.
opinions are like eyes. everybodys got 'em and they're all different.
yes, it's a giant tick in the 'quality of opponent' box. not the W/L record box. Which is what I'm saying. Sure we can add 'defeated by Kane' and 'lost an 8 man battle royale' to the quality margin, but as far as records go, a loss is a loss. No matter how good the guy you're facing is.
Actually I see Gabriel as the next Jeff Hardy. Both have a certain charisma, no mic skills, a high flying flippy finisher and tag team prospects with the fat Hardy. Evan Bourne lost his momentum whilst he was sitting on the unjured list. If he'd remained healthy, he might not be the poster child for 'flippy failure'. He might still be but we'll never know. FOr now though, Gabriel's got momentum, which means that for the forseeable future, he isn't going to be an Evan Bourne.
That's very true and smoething that I made clear was my opinion from the start.
The only time Slater has lost to his peers was in a match where his odds of winning was 1 in 8. He's undefeated against his peers other than that.
I'm not quite seeing the difference there. Slater has been up against more difficult opponents than any rookie other than Bryan. "Quality of opponent" is linked fairly closely to the win/loss record, otherwise Bryan would never have gotten #1.
Agreed.
Bourne out-popped everyone but Matt Hardy when he was on ECW. So, crowd reaction doesn't matter as much in this argument until they reach the main brands.
Otunga will get in for sure. It will be Slater and Gabriel fighting for the 4th spot in the final 4.
Otunga's going to beat Slater in terms of survival/elimination, I've already predicted and admitted that.
How is Slater's win/loss record unexceptional? He's still undefeated against his rookie peers. His only losses came from a match featuring all 8 rookies and a match against a professional. Remember, in kayfabe views these guys aren't in WWE yet, so Kane is a more powerful character.
Right, I just said that.
No it wasn't. Ok, think of it this way. Kane facing an NXT rookie is like having a created character on Smackdown VS Raw with an overall status of like 37 (whatever the default number is) facing Kane, who had an overall status of at least 80. While looking at it from the kayfabe'd perspective, none of the rookies have anything beyond 40 when making these comparisons. Kane would therefore have destroyed any of them. Slater benefitted from that match by getting to face a guy who's actually on the main roster.
I see it the other way around. Winning the challenges will be something looked at when it comes time for the next poll. Anyone who wants to vote against Slater will think to themselves "Oh yeah, he won that keg race thing, maybe he should stick around so he can prove himself further". See what I mean?
Wouldn't winning challenges help one in the X-Factor area? It's a very vaguely defined category.
That depends on who he replaces if/when he makes it into the final 4.
You can't make unfair comparisons of Slater to guys like Jeff or Rey yet. Remember, in kayfabe these guys are still on par with a newly created SVR character. He's got a long way to go and if he improves he could go far in the WWE.
They do all belong in the WWE ring. Will they all get there though? Possibly not. Both brands have guys that get no tv time, the roster is too large.
Determination is the most important trait a character can have. It even outranks charisma. In real life, you're right. In kayfabe however, determination is second to none in importance.
Fair enough. That makes sense.
Yes.... very true. That's why I like debating on here, so many people with so many different opinions to share.
Wrong. If quality of opponent didn't determine which losses are "worse" than the others, then explain how Bryan got #1 with a terrible win/loss record? Simple. He lost to MUCH stronger opponents. So, quality of opponent is more important than you are giving it credit for.
So you're saying that Gabriel is going to become a main eventer who is horrible on the mic, only over for insane spots/finishers, and quits shortly after becoming the top guy of the second biggest brand in the federation, only to end up in TNA? I really hope not bro, I would want Gabriel to end up in a better position than that.
Gabriel is going to end up alongside Bourne and Yoshi. The guys are over but midcarders for life unless they learn to do more than just high flying or an insane finisher. Slater, on the other hand, could become the next Edge if built up properly. He has the rock star look and the determination to win, all he is missing is a heel turn and the right booking because he definitely has what it takes.
Very true.
what aren't you getting? That quality of opponent and W/L record are different (although closely linked)
Yes it is. However, they are not the same category, which is what I'm saying. All the other Rookies on 4-2 get the same number of points for their wins and losses, anthough Slater comes out miles ahead in the quality of opponent category.
Very true.
the arguement could be made that the SD audience would react the same to Gabriel because they're the same audience as the NXT audience. But it was the loss of momentum and lack of big push that screwed Bourne.
I disagree, because although he's been pushed VERY VERY hard, has the look and is doing well for himself, if the F4 are featured prominently on the other brands Vince might think Otunga isn't a good rep of NXT in the ring (and he'd be right) and/or think he's a liability in the ring (because he's so damn sloppy). This means that Gabriel takes his place as 3rd safe bet in the F4 (because he's got flashy moves (that might make people want to see more of him on NXT) and isnt a shit and sloppy wrestler)
We're in agreement that Slater is fighting another heavily pushed superstar to get in, even if we disagree which one. I think Gabriel's the safe bet and Otunga isnt (because of his shittiness) but the end result is the same.
their chances of survival are roughly equal in my opinion, because Otunga's pros are countered out by him being terrible in the ring right now and needing to go back to FCW and finish his training.
Yes, but as I've been asserting throughout the debate, his W/L record is separate (but closely associated with) his opponent's quality.
Yes he is.
And I agree with you on that fact. Pity that being undefeated against rookies has no bearing on the overall W/L record which the pros are voting on. It'd be a good point oif we were debating quality of opponent though.
I agree with everything you just said. I've also never disagreed that Slater's losses were in matches where he stood little chance of victory. However, the quality of opponents delivering the losses has no relavence to the number of times he's lost. It matters a great deal when those mumbers are put into context in the quality of opponent section. I repeat, opponent strength does not affect how the W/L record looks from a numerical/statistical standpoint (which is what that section is about). It matters greatly when those numbers are put into context in the quality of opponents section.
Ok, I admit, the challenges could serve as a very useful tie breaker when picking the F4 (though not the actual rankings) we must remember that Gabriel and Otunga also have chances to win challenges and nullify that (small) advantage Slater has over the other rookies.
Possible, and it's a good point. I have no way to dismiss it off hand.
If he's beating Gabriel he's worse in the ring, if he's beating otunga he's beating the guy with the look and the charisma. Either way there's a big downgrade somewhere.
How is it unfair to say that people who have made successes out of playing the underdog have had things going for them other than determination. If anything, if Slater wants to play this role too, he needs a secondary skill so that the crowd will get behind him, rather than wanting him to just stay down already.
True, though as he's not a video game character, he should be able to demonstrate at this level that he's got the abilities required to play the underdog well.
Very true.
Ah, disagree here. Determination for an underdog is the second most important thing. The most important thing is being able to keep the crowd behind them throughout the match. Which requires either unique offence or... you guessed it, charisma.
Yes, Bryan gets massive points in the quality of opponents section of the voting. However his gets fuck all in the W/L ratio section. They're separate sections. Which means that whilst Slater slays his peers (apart from Bryan) in the quality section, he gets the same number of points for his W/L record.
No, I'm drawing a paralell between Junkie Jeff and Gabriel. Jeff, admitedly got over because of his insanity. So will Justin. Jeff stayed over because of his charisma. Justin has the charisma (albeit not the mic skills) to do that as well. That's what I'm trying to say. the drug problem and lack of loyalty are optional.[quoteI really hope not bro, I would want Gabriel to end up in a better position than that.[/quote]likewise.
Good thing that with the experience Gabriel's gotten in his decade long career, he IS more than a flashy finisher and crazy moves.
Gabriel (as stated) could be the next Jeff Hardy if built right. Jeff was FAR more over than Edge ever was.
I'll give you that. According to people who watch FCW, Slater is better as a heel anyway. Both Gabriel and Slater have potential to be great, high level tallents. Right now, Gabe's closer to being there. Hell stick him with Hardy for a while, give them a tag team run until sufficiently over, then give him a singles run (either give Matt an excuse to let him go, e.g. 'Justin, I think it's time you stood on your own two feet. I'm not going to be your sensei any more, but I'll still be your friend and biggest fan' or some similar twaddle. Or have Justin go over Matt in an envy motivated feud). Slater needs more work than Gabe (who, like the other 2 who're dead certs in my opinion is ready to go straight after NXT ), so if the tossup's between those two, Justin is going in. Slater is probably going to spend a month or two back in FCW, get repackaged and rediscover the use of a finisher and then come back up. Bryan's winning, Barrett's showing up on Smackdown with a contract courtesy of Jericho, and Otunga is going back to FCW until he's a less sickening shade of green in the ring, and then redebuting like MVP when he first arrived (i.e. getting his pompous ass a bug money contract). The rest don't matter and will be given their future endevours before they come up again.
Lionheart_Y2J_fan.
Mongoose McQueen
My favorite NXT rookie is Heath Slater. Not just because he's a baby face, but because he has the best charisma. He resembles a young Chris Jericho in a way IMO. (Y2J is my favorite if you can't tell lol) I've always been a fan of the cocky superstars they've always brought more energy to the show. And since Jericho is a heel and Slater is a baby face it was a good idea to pair him with Christian. Even though Christian really isn't the pompous, chest beating, cocky superstar anymore he still has good charisma. And i think Slater could be the next Captain Charisma. And Slater has really good in-ring ability. The only rookie with better in-ring ability is Daniel Bryan (who would be my favorite but has poor charisma) I think Slater is gonna be something big.
That's what my point on that was. The fact that Win/loss records and quality of opponent are closely linked, which we have basically agreed on.
Right. They are different, yet connected. We agreed on that. You are also correct that other rookies have a 4-2 win/loss rate. Now, Slater's losses came from matches with the odds highly against him.... thus we are in agreement that he still comes out higher in the standings due to his opponents' quality, when compared to the rookies who share his 4-2 win/loss ratio. We're on the same page now.
Alright, then Gabriel would be the Evan Bourne of Smackdown. It wasn't the loss of momentum or a lack of a push that messed things up for Bourne. It was a case of bad luck. He was very over even when he returned from injury on ECW. Then he got moved to Raw and the crowd didn't react much. He would have been better off on Smackdown although they already had their face high flyers in Rey and Morrison. Gabriel, who is also a face high flyer, is going to end up that way on Smackdown or Raw. Slater's going to be better off depending on how he is built up.
Flashy moves don't always mean a good wrestler. I'll use your Jeff Hardy comparison as the example here. You claimed Gabriel could be the next Jeff Hardy. Well, Jeff was terrible in the ring. His only good moves were insane high flying spots, his entire move-set was bad other than that.
Otunga's over and he can always get some extra in-ring training along the way. Gabriel's not a safe bet. He has got to become over for reasons beyond his finisher. Otherwise we do agree on this point.
I'm pretty sure Slater being undefeated against the rookies does actually count. Otherwise Otunga would have been #4 in the poll.
I thought we were already in agreement on that though, and you kind of contradicted yourself here.
I stand by my statement in my last post. Winning the challenges can be tied into the X Factor part on the poll. The more challenges someone wins, the better they are going to end up in the polls. Slater's upset would have bumped him up to #3 if the upcoming poll was this week instead of next month. I doubt it's a mere tie-breaker. That will depend on how many challenges they do.
Gabriel and Otunga are two extremes. Slater is the happy medium between the two, making him the best of both worlds. That alone should help his odds when it comes to the final 4.
I never said he didn't need improvement. Turn him heel and let him run wild with arrogant promos about his "one man rock band" character, then let him sneak in some wins out of nowhere in several matches and give him a heavy rock entrance theme.... suddenly, the next Edge has been discovered.
Slater has the abilities required to play the underdog well. He won the keg race when no one, not even Slater marks like me, thought he could. Also his undefeated streak when he had it.
You misunderstood me. The most important thing for the character the wrestler is playing is determination, while the most important thing for the wrestler as a real human being doing his job is charisma. Being able to play the part well and show his determination can grow into an upgrade to his charisma. The two go hand in hand when playing a face sometimes.
Fair enough but I'd still hate to see Gabriel as a top face on Smackdown (he'd get buried day one on Raw) who is only over for his finisher and is awful on the mic.... that's what Hardy was, and even disregarding the lack of loyalty I still would want a better future for Gabriel than that.
That doesn't prevent Gabriel from ending up in the "midcard for life" category. To many of us he IS just over for his impressive finisher.
For what, a semester or two? Edge has remained a relevant main eventer for over 4 years. I'd much rather see the next Edge instead of the next Jeff Hardy. Therefore Slater has the EDGE over Gabriel. (Intended pun.)
How many of the casual fans watch it though? The sad thing is that the vast majority of WWE's fans have probably never seen a single moment of FCW footage. Plus, not many guys retain their FCW characters when they reach the main brands.
I don't know if that would be such a good idea. They might be over in that form for a couple of weeks.... but they would be severely overshadowed by the Hardys as a team. Look at ShowMiz. Good team, but easily a ripoff of JeriShow by replacing one guy (Jericho) with someone similar but a little worse (Miz).... So, the same exact result would happen with a team of Matt Hardy and Justin Gabriel. Fans will be happy at first, then notice that Jeff was replaced by Gabriel in a ripoff of an awesome team, then some fans will turn on them.
You can't say that for sure though. Bryan hasn't for sure won it unless WWE has predetermined that to happen. He'll make it to the main brands regardless of how he does on NXT. What if all 8 guys were going to make it no matter how they do on NXT? I'm not saying all would succeed, but all might still somehow appear on the main brands. The guys who lose NXT might be "fired" in a kayfabe sense, but for all we know there could be plans to bring in all 8 of them to the roster after NXT which just happened to be a first storyline for all of them. It could be a very distinct possibility. Slater's odds of at least debuting on Raw/Smackdown are very good because he has what it takes and just needs to combine his determination with some heel arrogance. Like I said weeks ago, that guy will be a star someday.
Thriller Ant
Beep Bop Boop
Heath Slater has really impressed me during NXT. He has a fairly unique look, pretty good in the ring, and has been able to make the crowd care about him. He looked good against Kane and has definitely impressed me. I don't think he'll end up winning, but this shouldn't be the last time we see him on the main roster.
Sad thing about it although is I think the reason why people care for Slater has a large part of Christian being his pro, looking at some of the other faces on the show like R-truth perhaps, even though R-truth is over, people doesn't care for Otunga as much as they do for Slater.
But yeah I'll definitely agree, he's doing pretty good, still not growing on me although with the whole over the top personality if I must say so boldly, because I've never been much for the woopti do over the top cheerful guy, one of the bigger reasons I've never really liked Yoshi Tatsu neither.
I can see why you might think that. However, he would still have his fanbase even if he wasn't paired with Christian. I can't speak for all of the other Slater fans, but I thought he'd be a star before I knew who his pro in NXT was. Christian and Slater's pairing (ironic last names pun?) had little to do with it, and is merely an extra benefit in my opinion.
Otunga's a heel.... outside of the online fans, heels aren't usually as liked as the faces except for a few rare cases.
It's been said multiple times in this very thread.... Slater just needs to turn heel. Then that akward happiness people have such a problem with Slater on, can transform into heel arrogance and people will like him more. As for him being the "annoying face character who's too happy" like Yoshi Tatsu.... That's how I feel about Gabriel because Gabriel is Yoshi with a cooler finisher, and I just do not see that "annoying face character who's too happy" thing being nearly as much issue with Slater, probably because I see his potential to succeed.
Klown_Karnage
Slapstick Heavyweight Champion
I personally think that if this was an actual competition where the performance of the various superstars actually affected whether they would win or not then Heath Slater would be the favorite and would eventually win in my opinion. He's basically the best overall guy they've got, at least in terms of promo ability, in ring versatility, selling ability, and various other factors. He's got the charisma to make it and given that Vince has gone away from the more weird characters and more and more towards the "Ken Dolls" then Slater definitely fits the bill here.
The main problem is...I'm afraid it's not going to happen. I don't think we've seen the last of Heath Slater after NXT, more than likely the WWE has some plans for him and is using NXT to showcase him a bit before they bring him in some other way, but it's not going to be as winner of NXT.
Simply put, from what I've seen, Daniel Bryan is going to win. They brought him in specifically for that purpose, plain and simple. Frankly, though, I have to say in a few ways there are far better candidates for it. Bryan's got the in-ring talent, the look in a kind of clean-cut college boy way (almost a cruserweight Jack Swagger) but when he opens his mouth he sounds as if he's drunk or has a bad head cold, doesn't know what he's going to say and when he finally thinks of something to say it falls flat. He'll be a midcarder bumped down to jobber at best. Heath Slater could do way better if they give him a chance and hopefully they will.
The main problem is...I'm afraid it's not going to happen. I don't think we've seen the last of Heath Slater after NXT, more than likely the WWE has some plans for him and is using NXT to showcase him a bit before they bring him in some other way, but it's not going to be as winner of NXT.
Simply put, from what I've seen, Daniel Bryan is going to win. They brought him in specifically for that purpose, plain and simple. Frankly, though, I have to say in a few ways there are far better candidates for it. Bryan's got the in-ring talent, the look in a kind of clean-cut college boy way (almost a cruserweight Jack Swagger) but when he opens his mouth he sounds as if he's drunk or has a bad head cold, doesn't know what he's going to say and when he finally thinks of something to say it falls flat. He'll be a midcarder bumped down to jobber at best. Heath Slater could do way better if they give him a chance and hopefully they will.
I agree on our agreement.
yes we did.
sonce I'm writing this post episode 8, Darren young is officially ranked higher than Heath Slater. And has a pinned pro to boot.
yes we are. On W/L records Heath, Otunga and Gabriel get the same mumber of points, but taking quality of opponent into the equation, Heath comes out on top.
Very true. The dude was screwed from the get go.
After the guy choked last night, i'm in total agreement right now. Gabe blew chunks that he proceeded to choke on. Right now, Slater's the safer pair of hands of the two.
Gabriel is a good wrestler though.
I agree. I was never a fan of Junkie Jeff.
Yes it was. However, the same cannot be said of Gabriel. Who probably has the second largest moveset after Bryan. A shame his STO sucks dick though.
True, as long as he's kept in the ring with workers like Barrett and Cena, he wont look too terrible.
After Gabriel choked on the chunks he blew on the mic, I'm in complete agreement. Gabe's been knocked off the 'safe' list.
yes it does. In the closely linked category of 'quality of opponent'
If Otunga had an undefeated streak at the time, he'd have been 3 or 4, I expect.
Quite possibly. Though I find I post my best multiquoted posts at night, when tiredness befuddles the brain. The gist of my point was that, the actual W/L record is soley about how many wins and losses and that any other factors that partially involve strength of opponent (such as a good showing against superior opponents, unclean wins or being undefeated against rookies) would come under strength of opponent.
Barrett's win possibly. Since he's been platinum on the mic since week one. That challenge just put his elloquence at centre stage. and then rubbed his dominance in this area in the faces of the other rookies.
I'm sticking to my tiebreaker, but the reward gives you a shot at improving one of the factors. Slater got a shot at Kane, Barrett gets an entrance theme courtesy of Jim Johnson. God knows what lucky contestant number 3 will get.
Maybe. Let's see if challenges get mentioned in a light that makes them seem like something other than character building exercises.
One a week it seems. What does that suggest to you?
Given that he can at least be trusted to keep going if the crowd shits on his promo, he's definately got an edge on Gabriel. He can also be trusted not to fuck up his ring work. You're right there.
Heel Heath vs Gabriel. If I find a decent video with a Slater heel promo, I'll post it.
1[YOUTUBE]KcfUAk-kYRg[/YOUTUBE]
2[YOUTUBE]3uyMRp7V6lk[/YOUTUBE]
3[YOUTUBE]smBQNf1XY0Q[/YOUTUBE]
Now with added badass Michael Tarver
[YOUTUBE]cuqo-GQkn60[/YOUTUBE]
I'm sure he can play the underdog. But as a heel, he tends to be more egotistical than anything else.
Ah, got you. I agree in that case
Kayfabe determination can lead to a character which leads to charisma. So you're right determination is a key skill.
If youre insanely over, you're insanely over. The whys and wherefores don't matter too much.
See above.
uugh. lame pun aside, Hardy could have main evented much sooner than he did. THe only reason he wasn't on top for longer is because Vinny Mac only trusted him as far as Steph could throw him. And with Jeff, that's probably giving him too much credit in the trust stakes.
very few.
I know I didn't untill NXT cama along. thank fuck for NXT.
Irrelevent. The rookies all have.
So Matt Hardy can never team up with another high flier? Matt's career is going to consist of putting guys over for the forseeable future. Gabriel has potential to be the next Jeff Hardy. Why not let announcers point that out and use blunderbuss level subtlty by shoving them in a team.
Yes it would. That's pretty much the point. Let the (majority of the) fans embrase Jeff 2.0 before he outgrows the Hardy brand training wheels and ditched Matt once sufficiently over.
Fans kept on popping for DX. Despite their recent runs essentially being those two advertising the latest merchandise but calling themselves Degeneration-X. Online fans bitched. They were still MASSIVELY over. TX2 (Team Xtreme 2) would likewise be insanely over.
I'm going with the winner being planned well ahead, the shows booked week to week (and the rookies finding out on the day) and the promos being more or less improvised. I do still think Bryan's waking away with the title shot though.
Barrett, Bryan and possibly Gabriel and Slater will excell. Tarver might make it if they let him be badass. Darren is shit and wont make it. Skip would take his yep yep yep right to the comedy midcard, and Otunga would bounce right back to FCW after a couple of weeks.
They might. I don't think they will. Especially people who are eliminated early. The big 5 all have big shows in their futures though. Otunga wont be joining them for another couple of years though.
I'm very sceptical of that happening. Mainly because Otunga is legit shit and needs to learn how to carry himself in the ring. He doesn't have to be a master, but he needs to be a lot better than he is to be TV standard.
When Slater turns up the ego, the determination is undermined. You can't be a cocky underdog. It just doesn't work. If you're cocky you need sometihng to be cocky about. and getting your ass whooped by the bog red machine isn't sometihng to brag about.
Paragon of Virtue
Dark Match Jobber
Mid-carder? How do people think he could eventually be a mid-carder? Slater has jobber written all over him.
Maybe Heath Slater should get a WWE contract after NXT is over. You gotta change up the jobber scene right? I could just picture him fitting right in with Kung Fu Naki and Jimmy Yang. With his embarrassing charisma and look, he's bound to put over any wrestler he steps into the ring with.
Honkey_Kong
Championship Contender
I agree with you. He's a jobber to be. His wrestling is lame but still outshines his lack of charisma. Most of the NXT guys I'm not impressed with though. Wade Barrett and Danielson are the only ones I see worth anything. And I see a definite world title run in Barrett.
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
I wouldn't pay too much attention to win/loss records. 1. It's a fake sport. 2. Daniel Bryan was ranked #1 with zero wins. Wins and losses are overrated, IMO, especially in the long run. I mean, sure, a guy can't lose all of the time, and become a huge name. But just because someone wins, doesn't mean they are heading for stardom.
He absolutely does not have the best pro, sorry to say. Jericho and CM Punk are both bigger stars, and more talented in-ring competitors, IMO. I am Christian mark, always have been. But until the company has enough faith to give him a World title, he isn't in that "champion" league with Jericho and Punk.
As far as Slater being the most talented, I couldn't disagree more. I think he's ok. He's a decent wrestler, but isn't much to listen to on the mic. He has an ok look, but kind of looks like a child. In the ring, I think Barrett, Bryan and Gabriel are leaps and bounds better. Wade Barrett, for my money, is the most talented guy in this tournament. But I don't think Barrett needs to win NXT to become a huge star. Neither does Bryan or Otunga (who I'm not a fan of).
I would say that leaves Gabriel and Slater. I think Gabriel is more talented in the ring, but he is shit on the mic. Also, there is no cruiserweight/lightweight division, so that hurts Gabriels big-spot style (maybe TNA?). Slater has him beat on the mic by quite a distance. Slater has a good chance to win this competition, and I only say that because I think he needs to win it to become a star. Otunga, Bryan, and Barrett do not need to win this thing to make in the big leagues.
No he's not. Darren can't jump from 8th place to 4th place with one win. Also, Slater can't get knocked down that far from the loss to Kane (which was a difficult match when looking at through kayfabe) and the promo contest which he was still in the top tier for behind Barrett and Otunga.
He's not bad. However, they need to showcase a larger skill set for him on tv or else people will get the impression that he sucks other than his finisher.
So then it appears we are in agreement then that Gabriel deserves better than to be the next Jeff Hardy.
Indeed. Gabriel will be better off relying more on in-ring ability to remain over if they let him actually do more in his matches.
Agreed, but Otunga didn't have an undefeated streak.
Fair enough.... I do a lot of posting late at night myself.
Ok, that makes sense. However quality of opponent ended up being more important so far.... just look at how Bryan got #1 and how Slater's loss to Kane hasn't killed his momentum either.
Yeah I agree, Barrett destroyed everyone in the promo contest.
I'm going with both. They will get something interesting for each contest win, but it will also be something to add to their list of reasons why the pro's should be voting in their favor.
It doesn't need to be anything other than character building exercises. That gives them a chance to develop their characters, something they all need.
It suggests that the contests will be more important than probably what either one of us thought before this week's NXT.
Precisely. Slater is the happy medium out of the rookies right now. He's neither amazing nor terrible in any category. Average or better, everywhere. I do hope he improves further though.
Agreed. Slater's egotistical heel character will do just fine on the main brands. I'd suggest they turn him very soon after he makes it to Raw/Smackdown.
Disagree. Hardy would never have main evented if it weren't for Cena's injury. They had no one else for Orton to face after Jericho, and Cena wasn't returning until the Rumble. Hardy got picked and did the insane swanton off the top of the titantron. That got him over enough for the feud with Trips the next semester where he finally got enough title shots to get the win. Had it not been for that titantron swanton (and Cena's injury) then Hardy wouldn't even have gotten that long feud with Trips which resulted in his title win. Hardy got lucky.
No, it's still relevant. The rookies might not retain their characters after reaching Raw/Smackdown. There is no guarantee of that because NXT is not the main roster, it's a step in between developmental and the main roster.
I never said Matt can't team with another high flyer. I'm saying that any team Matt's in with other flyers will automatically be compared to the Hardys. Gabriel deserves better than to be the next Jeff Hardy. He should become over (at a main event level) for reasons other than getting lucky with one extremely insane spot.
That would result in him turning heel unless Matt's the one who turns on Gabriel instead. I don't want him to be Jeff 2.0, I'd rather he be Gabriel.
Bad example. DX were still massively over because they were Triple H and Shawn Michaels, two guys who are legends in a team together. They would have been over no matter what. Whereas you're claiming that Matt and Gabriel would be as over as the Hardys? Sorry, but without Jeff that will never happen.
Quite possibly. Miz and Bryan have been the center of nearly every NXT, so that would make sense. It also explains why he got #1 unless quality of opponent makes up for half of the poll's ranking scale. Bryan starting off his Raw/Smackdown run with a US title win would be rather cool.
I pretty much agree with that except for Otunga. I see nearly as much potential in him as I do in Barrett. He just has to improve in the ring, and lots of other people see that too.
Otunga does need improvement in the ring absolutely. However, look at guys like Batista. Horrible in the ring, but still over for having the impressive look.... now add Otunga's promo skills and charisma, both are through the roof by rookie standards. He's gonna be just fine given the proper push.
True, but if he was heel then Slater wouldn't be relying on determination anymore. He would begin finding things to brag about and list them out in promos. A lot of heels do that and he'd be good at it because of already having experience playing an egotistical character.
Certainly Slater would've gone on to become liked as long as his pro was liked too yes, or in a single non pro/rookie relationship, but I really have my doubts that Slater would've been as much over with the (American) crowd as he is right now, if it wasn't for Christian, and yes it's exactly an extra benefit, it puts him over more firmly than he would've been if he was paired with.. say.. MVP.. face, but sure as hell not liked as much as Christian.
I know that much, but you'd still think R-truth being a face would put him out there more, and R-truth isn't as loved as Christian, therefore I think even if Otunga was face, Slater would have the upper hand.
Trust me, nobody wants to see the too happy face character, hell people wanted The Rock to die cause his Rocky Maivia characteristics were too damn happy, and I like The Rock, but I certainly hate Rocky Maivia, Slater turning somewhat heel would do good for him yes, but not as much as The Rock's turn.. but it'd certainly make him more liked, and won't make him boring faster than milk out in the open.
KnowYoRole
Getting Noticed By Management
Like Jericho said in Slater's video package two nights ago, I don't really like Slater. There's really nothing that stands out in him and I just find him to be a little annoying. maybe it's due to the fact that he has no character whatsoever?
Nicole13Edge/HardyFan
Future Diva, Womans and Divas champ
You all need to stop insulting Heath Slater he is going to be way more then a jobber and a mid-carder I mean what do you all have against him you act like you hate him or something.
It is up to Vince who goes to the mid-card section and who becomes a main-eventer Vince obviously seems something in him I mean he let him beat Chris Jericho.
It is up to Vince who goes to the mid-card section and who becomes a main-eventer Vince obviously seems something in him I mean he let him beat Chris Jericho.
