NxT TakeOver Dallas

[Harthan]

Nakamura's new theme is up online now

That's really, really good. I didn't quite pick up on how sick that violin (? I can never tell what instruments are) was watching it live.

His whole entrance was awesome. The video wall was, and the flashing lights. So good.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Nakamura's new theme is up online now

It's heavenly but I REALLY wish there was more of that opening guitar riff in the rest of the song. Maybe supporting other parts of it on and off

 

[Mighty NorCal]

That's really, really good. I didn't quite pick up on how sick that violin (? I can never tell what instruments are) was watching it live.

His whole entrance was awesome. The video wall was, and the flashing lights. So good.

Seriously, fucking goosebumps.

GOD I hope he is at Takeover Brooklyn.

 

[Tastycles]

It's not the same without him dancing totally out of time to it.

 

[Harthan]

Seriously, fucking goosebumps.

GOD I hope he is at Takeover Brooklyn.

Coming out of this, is there a more legitimate contender to the NXT title than Nakamura? Maybe Joe still based on the finish, but I dunno.

Seems like Nakamura will at least be around for a title shot.

 

[Shadowmancer]

Here is the Nakamura entrance at 50fps

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Coming out of this, is there a more legitimate contender to the NXT title than Nakamura? Maybe Joe still based on the finish, but I dunno.

Seems like Nakamura will at least be around for a title shot.

I hope we get from Mania takeover to mania takeover at least

 

[Tastycles]

Coming out of this, is there a more legitimate contender to the NXT title than Nakamura? Maybe Joe still based on the finish, but I dunno.

Seems like Nakamura will at least be around for a title shot.

I'd rather see Austin Aries have the title shot and Joe fight Nakamura.

 

[Uncle Sam]

On the Zayn/Nakamura match, because I'm up now and I've just taken a wicked shit, there's one further thing I want to bring up, and it's something that annoys me in a lot of indie matches. I'll preclude this by again saying I liked the match, I like Nakamura, I understand that they were playing to the audience they had, and there's a Match of the Year thread somewhere in which I've put a match of his to be considered.

I call this thing: Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

Shinsuke Nakamura is the King of Strong Style, a man with machine guns for arms and nuclear missiles for legs. Here he is trading blows with Indie McFlabbyArms. Sami Zayn's appeal is his fighting from beneath, and all his offense seems makeshift and spontaneous. Why is he kung fu fighting with the King of Strong Style? Ah, but Sam, he bit off more than he can chew, that's why he lost. Well, not really, because those two were hitting each other back and forth for about ten minutes - and both looked on the verge of collapse.

Compare and contrast with Sami Zayn's match with Samoa Joe several weeks back. Joe starts hitting Zayn, Zayn responds with forearms and chops, Joe literally laughs in his face and lays him the fuck out. Every time Zayn tries to meet Joe on Joe's terms, Zayn gets laid out. So Sami has to rally and improvise. That's Sami Zayn.

So if Shinsuke Nakamura is King of Strong Style, Samoa Joe is Shiva, Destroyer of Worlds.

It was a fun match, but it was very niche, and to put it in even the top three matches of tonight just furthers the stereotype that people will award an extra *1/4 to anything with a Japanese wrestler in.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

After tonight I think that titles going to Nakamura, not Joe.

 

[Tastycles]

On the Zayn/Nakamura match, because I'm up now and I've just taken a wicked shit, there's one further thing I want to bring up, and it's something that annoys me in a lot of indie matches. I'll preclude this by again saying I liked the match, I like Nakamura, I understand that they were playing to the audience they had, and there's a Match of the Year thread somewhere in which I've put a match of his to be considered.

I call this thing: Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

Shinsuke Nakamura is the King of Strong Style, a man with machine guns for arms and nuclear missiles for legs. Here he is trading blows with Indie McFlabbyArms. Sami Zayn's appeal is his fighting from beneath, and all his offense seems makeshift and spontaneous. Why is he kung fu fighting with the King of Strong Style? Ah, but Sam, he bit off more than he can chew, that's why he lost. Well, not really, because those two were hitting each other back and forth for about ten minutes - and both looked on the verge of collapse.

Compare and contrast with Sami Zayn's match with Samoa Joe several weeks back. Joe starts hitting Zayn, Zayn responds with forearms and chops, Joe literally laughs in his face and lays him the fuck out. Every time Zayn tries to meet Joe on Joe's terms, Zayn gets laid out. So Sami has to rally and improvise. That's Sami Zayn.

So if Shinsuke Nakamura is King of Strong Style, Samoa Joe is Shiva, Destroyer of Worlds.

It was a fun match, but it was very niche, and to put it in even the top three matches of tonight just furthers the stereotype that people will reward an extra *1/4 to anything with a Japanese wrestler in.

People also need to seriously reflect on what "crowd eating out of the palm of your hand" means.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'm bitterly disappointed that WWE didn't take my advice on putting a+b) one of the two title changes or c) Sami Zayn's farewell on last over a title rematch that ended in a retention.

 

[Harthan]

I'd rather see Austin Aries have the title shot and Joe fight Nakamura.

It's almost the same situation they had post London with Zayn, Corbin, and Joe all with legitimate claim. Now Joe, Aries, and Nakamura have it.

They could just book all the same shit again, I guess that would be fine.

 

[Tastycles]

If Itami comes back, I think there's a good chance it turns out to have been Balor what did it.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I wonder where Itami's place is now that they've got the infinitely more interesting Nakamura. I guess we're still yet to see a GTS.

They could just book all the same shit again, I guess that would be fine.

I'd be up for, say, a fatal fourway, which would leave the door open for Balor to lose the title without being pinned - if they're hellbent on protecting him.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

People also need to seriously reflect on what "crowd eating out of the palm of your hand" means.

As I said, what SHOULD they have done then? NOT pop them and give them what they wanted? Re-enact Gotch - Hackenschmidt?

You guys are sitting here grousing over a match that nearly collapsed the building. Porridge is too cold, I guess

 

[Sean Valjean]

If Itami comes back, I think there's a good chance it turns out to have been Balor what did it.

That'd be interesting. If memory serves me, wasn't Itami supposed to be in a triple threat against Balor and Breeze before he went down? Kevin Owens was a dick about it, but he always maintained his innocence.

 

[Harthan]

On the Zayn/Nakamura match, because I'm up now and I've just taken a wicked shit, there's one further thing I want to bring up, and it's something that annoys me in a lot of indie matches. I'll preclude this by again saying I liked the match, I like Nakamura, I understand that they were playing to the audience they had, and there's a Match of the Year thread somewhere in which I've put a match of his to be considered.

I call this thing: Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting.

Shinsuke Nakamura is the King of Strong Style, a man with machine guns for arms and nuclear missiles for legs. Here he is trading blows with Indie McFlabbyArms. Sami Zayn's appeal is his fighting from beneath, and all his offense seems makeshift and spontaneous. Why is he kung fu fighting with the King of Strong Style? Ah, but Sam, he bit off more than he can chew, that's why he lost. Well, not really, because those two were hitting each other back and forth for about ten minutes - and both looked on the verge of collapse.

Compare and contrast with Sami Zayn's match with Samoa Joe several weeks back. Joe starts hitting Zayn, Zayn responds with forearms and chops, Joe literally laughs in his face and lays him the fuck out. Every time Zayn tries to meet Joe on Joe's terms, Zayn gets laid out. So Sami has to rally and improvise. That's Sami Zayn.

So if Shinsuke Nakamura is King of Strong Style, Samoa Joe is Shiva, Destroyer of Worlds.

It was a fun match, but it was very niche, and to put it in even the top three matches of tonight just furthers the stereotype that people will award an extra *1/4 to anything with a Japanese wrestler in.

First off, Joe has 60 pounds on Nakamura (and 80 on Zayn). What you're really discussing is differences in power, not technique. Nakamura besting Zayn at strong style here had much less to do with the power (which was about equal) and much more to do with besting Zayn at placing his strikes exactly, anticipating what was to come better (catching Zayn on the DDT through the ropes) and outlasting through pure fighting spirit, which, yes, is unabashedly Japanese, but I don't know what you want a seasoned Japanese wrestler to do if not wrestle at least partially inspired by the puro style. The sequence I think you're talking about, where they traded forearms and both were nearly down, was clearly a showcase of power (about even) versus technique, which the match was a whole was much more about.

I guess I just don't understand the root of your criticism about the "Kung Fu Fighting". In any MMA fight, for example, guys try to force the other guy to fight the style they prefer. Nakamura (and Joe) both tried to get Sami to fight their kind of fight, and succeeded (for Joe, perhaps, more partially than Nakamura), and won because of it (again, more partially). It's perfectly logical the King of Strong Style would force a less experienced fighter to have his kind of match. It's perfectly logical Zayn would ultimately lose because of it, despite an admirable showing. If anything, the Joe and Nakamura matches combined are consistent in that they show that 1) Zayn hasn't the power to hang with big guys in a striking contest and 2) he hasn't the technique to hang with the King. If Nakamura and Joe wrestled, hypothetically, I would anticipate Nakamura having a lot more success striking at Joe because of his technique advantage (and the extra twenty pounds, to be fair). I don't really see anything internally inconsistent about this.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'd have gladly been stayed quiet about it - I'm never happy to criticise Sami Zayn after all - because, for the third time, I totally understand that they were playing to the audience they had and thought it was a good match, but the praise was getting hyperbolic. I'm happy to not let people play with their toys how they like but I'm permitted a response when they tell other people that they should like it too.

All this is obscuring how heartbroken I was when Bayley won the title. I'm not sure my stomach churned like that when Owens murdered Zayn. I'm still reeling.

Edit: Lost the title. Lost the title. Fucksake.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I'd have gladly been stayed quiet about it - I'm never happy to criticise Sami Zayn after all - because, for the third time, I totally understand that they were playing to the audience they had and thought it was a good match, but the praise was getting hyperbolic. I'm happy to not let people play with their toys how they like but I'm permitted a response when they tell other people that they should like it too.

All this is obscuring how heartbroken I was when Bayley won the title. I'm not sure my stomach churned like that when Owens murdered Zayn. I'm still reeling.

IT confirms for me that I was right about the match order being wrong.

That was an insanely huge moment, and it feels a bit lost.

 

[Harthan]

IT confirms for me that I was right about the match order being wrong.

That was an insanely huge moment, and it feels a bit lost.

Totally agreed on this. I still feel like I was barely present for the title matches, which sucks, because I can tell how good they were objectively. But the emotion was out of me by that point.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Snip

I'll try to stop harping on about this - because God knows I'd like to discuss other things and discussing one thing with four people at once is exhausting - but my problem wasn't so much the lack of consistent logic, though there is that, but the lack of storytelling. With Joe, it was, "Oh, Sami shouldn't fuck with Joe. I hope he fights back." You know what Joe's about, you know what Sami's about. With Nakamura, it was "Oh, Sami's getting a lot of success trading forearms with this bloke." It's like, if you want to sell this guy look like death on legs, why is Sami Zayn of all people on equal terms with him in his specialty? Forget the Joe match - it doesn't make sense in a vacuum. Sami lost the match when he started doing high-flying maneuvers and his trademark slams - a casual observer might think he'd have better luck if he'd just carried on punching.

I don't mean to sound rude, but I don't know how else to put this, I think you're inventing story beats in a match that was just two blokes leathering each other (which is fine, which is fun to watch, just not a classic match).

 

[Nate DaMac]

I have never seen Nakamura work before. I'm not partial to Japanese wrestling in the slightest, I kind of hate it in fact.

I thought that match fucking rocked to the point that I barely cared about the two that followed it.

 

[Tastycles]

As I said, what SHOULD they have done then? NOT pop them and give them what they wanted? Re-enact Gotch - Hackenschmidt?

You guys are sitting here grousing over a match that nearly collapsed the building. Porridge is too cold, I guess

What Sam and I are saying is that the match was good, but the only reason the crowd were wild is because they knew which spots were coming. They were proactive not reactive. Unlike, say, the way they were during three title matches.

The match gave that crowd, familiar with Nakamura, exactly what they wanted. If the point of a wrestling promotion is to preach to the choir, job done. That's to be admired, and it's why ROH is ultimately going to outlast TNA, but I expect more from a brand that has made me give a shit about women's and tag wrestling, for example. Make me, a non puro fan, care about Nakamura whilst also keeping the crowd happy. Asuka has managed to do exactly that working with much inferior workers to Sami Zayn.

 

[Uncle Sam]

On a more positive note, how good was that tag match? I can't imagine it was over ten minutes - if it was, it breezed by - but it was phenomenal. It makes me sound like the pinnacle of a wrestling nerd, which would be accurate, but it's a pleasure to watch Dash and Dawson actually do heel shit.