Hogan being the best of all time at that point (and maybe still if he hadn't ruined his reputation) turning heel completely surprising everyone, with Hall and Nash two of the biggest stars at the time coming straight from WWF. The Black attire, the spray paint, the seemingly shoot speeches Hogan gave on the first two nights, their was more excitement than ever before and ever since. Believe it, and if you don't - go watch it, someone just uploaded everything nWo from start to finish on youtube, just search "nWo Anthology". Punks pipe bomb, Brock bloodying Cena, Rock Cena even, they don't even stand a chance against that kind of entertainment.
nWo - The Best Angle Ever?
- Thread starter starkmoto
- Start date
I don't really understand the reasoning behind this thread? You aren't asking a question you're just giving an opinion, no idea what we are meant to post, but I'll try.
nWo was a big angle obviously all wrestling fans would know that,there were bigger defining moments but no angles per se. by the way this isn't meant to be rude but are you new to wrestling? just seems when you were comparing the nWo to things it was only from the last 2 years and that you saw the nWo video thing you mentioned and found it amazing. Again, try making a better thread about this next time
nWo was a big angle obviously all wrestling fans would know that,there were bigger defining moments but no angles per se. by the way this isn't meant to be rude but are you new to wrestling? just seems when you were comparing the nWo to things it was only from the last 2 years and that you saw the nWo video thing you mentioned and found it amazing. Again, try making a better thread about this next time
lowandmighty
lowandmightyer
There might be people who say that dx was a bigger angle or bret harts heel turn in wwf or the arrival of Kane or goldberg or Austin vs McMahon or the wcw invasion or the rock vs john cena or every undertaker wrestlemania match for the last 5 years or the shawn micheals retirement angle.
Those people however would be wrong because yes the nwo angle with Hulk Hogan's infamous heel turn was the best angle ever.
Not many people realize it but the reason the nwo looked fun is because it was and that was the beauty of it. Hulk Hogan actually got to be closer to his real self which is an obnoxiously up himself and selfish American man who lived his dream of body building, barbecuing the shit out of his skin and becoming one of Americas best wrestlers of all time allowing him to grow rich and have party's after every wrestling event with his wrestling buddy's where they all got drunk and snorted coke every night riding a wave of euphoria. Wrestle at arena - drugs, alcohol, groupies, sleep. That was Hogans daily routine.
These days wrestlers can't take a shit without having someone wanting to test it for drugs or something. They have to fill out wellness tests and stuff. Long gone are the days of the Hulkamania Hookers, weed and coke after party's. Wrestlers are sadly becoming ******, so much so that I think a part of me that never gets to see a better angle than the nwo will die very sad.
Those people however would be wrong because yes the nwo angle with Hulk Hogan's infamous heel turn was the best angle ever.
Not many people realize it but the reason the nwo looked fun is because it was and that was the beauty of it. Hulk Hogan actually got to be closer to his real self which is an obnoxiously up himself and selfish American man who lived his dream of body building, barbecuing the shit out of his skin and becoming one of Americas best wrestlers of all time allowing him to grow rich and have party's after every wrestling event with his wrestling buddy's where they all got drunk and snorted coke every night riding a wave of euphoria. Wrestle at arena - drugs, alcohol, groupies, sleep. That was Hogans daily routine.
These days wrestlers can't take a shit without having someone wanting to test it for drugs or something. They have to fill out wellness tests and stuff. Long gone are the days of the Hulkamania Hookers, weed and coke after party's. Wrestlers are sadly becoming ******, so much so that I think a part of me that never gets to see a better angle than the nwo will die very sad.
Steve Austin v Mr. McMahon? The angle that put WWF back atop the ratings?
nWo was one good idea that never really got followed up on. WCW dragged it out pretty much until the day they went out of business, and Eric Bischoff stole the idea from New Japan. Definitely Hogan's heel turn brought a lot of people back to wrestling, but Stone Cold stunning McMahon the first time in Madison Square brought ratings that neither company had seen, before. Wanna talk about the best angle, ever? I still say Bret Hart v Stone Cold and their match at WM 13. The highest drawing angle, ever? Stone Cold v McMahon, circa 98-99. nWo doesn't really fit in either one of those spots.
nWo was one good idea that never really got followed up on. WCW dragged it out pretty much until the day they went out of business, and Eric Bischoff stole the idea from New Japan. Definitely Hogan's heel turn brought a lot of people back to wrestling, but Stone Cold stunning McMahon the first time in Madison Square brought ratings that neither company had seen, before. Wanna talk about the best angle, ever? I still say Bret Hart v Stone Cold and their match at WM 13. The highest drawing angle, ever? Stone Cold v McMahon, circa 98-99. nWo doesn't really fit in either one of those spots.
Initially I would say yes it was, but they watered it down so much that I think there may have been better angles from start to finish. The first months of the NWO was definitely up there, but I would say an angle like Austin/McMahon stayed better longer. I am sure other people will come up with other angles they liked better such as DX or Kane being Takers thought to be dead brother, but I will say in the beginning at least NWO was the best.
Jonyboyuk2
Getting Noticed By Management
I just had a good think about this as a long time fan (next year is my 25th year as a fan). I would dare say that the NWO angle was the best ever in the history of Pro Wrestling.
I know many would think Austin attacking Mike Tyson or Vince McMahon as the best and they would be close in my opinion but I still believe the Hogan/NWO angle is still the best ever.
Why? because at the time WWF had been THE only Wrestling show in the Western world that the general public acknowledged. After the steroid scandal of 1991, Vince McMahon's focus was on his lawsuit in 1994 (he was acquitted). WWF had gone down hill from late 1991. Hulk Hogan vanished in early 1992, leaving a void at the top of the Card. Ultimate Warrior vanished too (cos he kept getting fired). It was down to the likes of Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels to carry the business. There were many small good angles in WWF - Bret Hart being attacked by Bob Backlund on WWF Superstars, Marty Janetty running in out the crowd to challenge and beat HBK for the IC Belt, Razor Ramon and the 1-2-3 Kid fluke, Razor Ramon's IC title victory, Owen Harts heel turn on his brother Bret.
At the same time (many long term fans will remember) Vince Russo was editing the WWF magazine. It had a secret agent "Vic Venom" who was writing as a heel. At the time WCW had just acquired Hulk Hogan, Macho Man and Lex Luger, and Ric Flair had returned in 1993 from the WWF. The fans knew there was a war on between the two sides as McMahon got his message across to fans via the Vic Venom columns on a monthly basis. As kids we loved to know what upcoming story lines were and the "insider" news.
Then out of nowhere Diesel and Razor joined WCW. Eric Bischoff took Vince McMahons own WWF Magazine based "war" story and tapped in to it, and created the Outsiders.
That was exciting enough - I actually started to tune in - as kids we really believed Diesel and Razor were attacking WCW for Vince McMahon.
Then the Hulk Hogan heel turn at BATB 1996, was when it all went in to overdrive.
I remember it as I was in Florida on a vacation with my family - and watched Raw on a monday evening (its a novelty for UK fans- we either catch it at 2am or wait til Friday nights) and Raw was without Bret Hart and I could not enjoy as much as I had used to. We were being subject to TL Hopper, the Goon and Duke the Dumpster Drose.
WCW had WWF stars, including the biggest star ever at the time, on their show - it was explosive. But agree with Foshinzo above- NWO never got followed up effectively - and it bombed in the end. It was their own demise - too many egos wanting to write the show, and being selfish.
It is worth mentioning that Mick Foley was often the stand out star on WWF tv. I loved the guy - and I have to say I didn't like his Mankind gimmick at first. But it was him that carried the show -and was a steady performer. Even before his hell in the cell match with taker 2 years later.
Regardless- the WWF had to then kick it up a gear - and they did that with Stone Cold V McMahon.
But I doubt this would have ever have happened if WCW had not launched the NWO and savaged WWF.
I remember a particular broadcast of Raw (from Europe) in September 1997. It was so bad - even though Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels and Stone Cold all brawled together at the end, but the entire show had no narrative to it - and it was the time I really thought I would probably not like WWF anymore. When the Double Cross happened 2 months later at Survivor Series, I was about to walk away from being a fan - but the Attitude era kicked in - and I loved it as did the World.
But I still believe none of that would have happened had WCW not intrdouced the NWO angle - and that is why it is the best in my opinion.
I know many would think Austin attacking Mike Tyson or Vince McMahon as the best and they would be close in my opinion but I still believe the Hogan/NWO angle is still the best ever.
Why? because at the time WWF had been THE only Wrestling show in the Western world that the general public acknowledged. After the steroid scandal of 1991, Vince McMahon's focus was on his lawsuit in 1994 (he was acquitted). WWF had gone down hill from late 1991. Hulk Hogan vanished in early 1992, leaving a void at the top of the Card. Ultimate Warrior vanished too (cos he kept getting fired). It was down to the likes of Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels to carry the business. There were many small good angles in WWF - Bret Hart being attacked by Bob Backlund on WWF Superstars, Marty Janetty running in out the crowd to challenge and beat HBK for the IC Belt, Razor Ramon and the 1-2-3 Kid fluke, Razor Ramon's IC title victory, Owen Harts heel turn on his brother Bret.
At the same time (many long term fans will remember) Vince Russo was editing the WWF magazine. It had a secret agent "Vic Venom" who was writing as a heel. At the time WCW had just acquired Hulk Hogan, Macho Man and Lex Luger, and Ric Flair had returned in 1993 from the WWF. The fans knew there was a war on between the two sides as McMahon got his message across to fans via the Vic Venom columns on a monthly basis. As kids we loved to know what upcoming story lines were and the "insider" news.
Then out of nowhere Diesel and Razor joined WCW. Eric Bischoff took Vince McMahons own WWF Magazine based "war" story and tapped in to it, and created the Outsiders.
That was exciting enough - I actually started to tune in - as kids we really believed Diesel and Razor were attacking WCW for Vince McMahon.
Then the Hulk Hogan heel turn at BATB 1996, was when it all went in to overdrive.
I remember it as I was in Florida on a vacation with my family - and watched Raw on a monday evening (its a novelty for UK fans- we either catch it at 2am or wait til Friday nights) and Raw was without Bret Hart and I could not enjoy as much as I had used to. We were being subject to TL Hopper, the Goon and Duke the Dumpster Drose.
WCW had WWF stars, including the biggest star ever at the time, on their show - it was explosive. But agree with Foshinzo above- NWO never got followed up effectively - and it bombed in the end. It was their own demise - too many egos wanting to write the show, and being selfish.
It is worth mentioning that Mick Foley was often the stand out star on WWF tv. I loved the guy - and I have to say I didn't like his Mankind gimmick at first. But it was him that carried the show -and was a steady performer. Even before his hell in the cell match with taker 2 years later.
Regardless- the WWF had to then kick it up a gear - and they did that with Stone Cold V McMahon.
But I doubt this would have ever have happened if WCW had not launched the NWO and savaged WWF.
I remember a particular broadcast of Raw (from Europe) in September 1997. It was so bad - even though Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels and Stone Cold all brawled together at the end, but the entire show had no narrative to it - and it was the time I really thought I would probably not like WWF anymore. When the Double Cross happened 2 months later at Survivor Series, I was about to walk away from being a fan - but the Attitude era kicked in - and I loved it as did the World.
But I still believe none of that would have happened had WCW not intrdouced the NWO angle - and that is why it is the best in my opinion.
obamartins
Pre-Show Stalwart
Incorrect the nWo angle was followed up on - do I really need to elaborate on how it was because you didn't watch it?
#1 The Outsiders invade & engage the marks as cool heels.
#2 Hogan jumps on bandwagon, turns heel forming nWo.
#3 nWo take over.
#4 nWo battles WCW.
#5 Problems develop in nWo causing a split.
#6 nWo Hollywood battles nWo Wolfpac.
#7 Both nWo factions merge back together due to WCW gaining strength with Ric Flair becoming WCW President.
People say nWo was stale in 1999 yet the ratings don't reflect this.
Average rating for NITRO in Nov/Dec 98 was 4.24 while the average rating for NITRO in Jan/Feb 99 was 4.75 meaning the average rating for NITRO increased 0.51 after Finger Poke of Doom. Also worth noting January 99 was the second best ratings month in history of NITRO with a 4.85 average (August 98 was best ratings month in NITRO history with a 4.98 average) plus the 5.7 rating NITRO drew on Feb 8, 99 was second highest rating NITRO EVER drew in the history of the show.
Average rating for NITRO in 98 which was WCW’s most successful financial & ratings year was a 4.43. Average rating NITRO during first 4 months of 99 was a 4.45.
nWo dominated WCW TV in Jan, Feb & March 99 & was still prominent in April 99. Long term injuries to Luger (biceps tear in Jan), Hall (personal issues in March) Hogan (knee surgery in April) plus Steiner (back injury in May) brought premature end to nWo in May 99 which coincidentally just so happens to be when ratings noticeably & significantly went down.
So WCW didn't drag it out until then end. From early May 1999 to March 2001 the nWo was only brought back for 3 months by Vince Russo from Late December 1999 to March 2000. Hardly dragged out until the end like you claim.
Eric Bischoff didn't steal the UWFI vs. NJPW fued from NJPW he simply took the concept & made a different & better version of it. Ask yourself this why did Masahiro Chono take WCW's nWo concept back to NJPW in early 1997 to form nWo Japan? The nWo was the kickoff off the late 90's boom period & while Hogan's heel turn was a big deal the impact that Nash & Hall had (even more so then Hogan) in terms of changing the direction of business cannot be denied.
Also what on earth are you going on about? On the night of 22nd September 1997 when Austin stunned McMahon at MSG the WWF got a 2.2 rating compared to WCW's 3.7 rating. WWF didn't beat WCW in ratings for another 6 months, so NO Austin stunning McMahon the first time in MSG DID NOT "bring ratings that neither company had seen, before."
You say best angle ever was Bret Hart vs. Austin (your subjective opinion) & highest drawing was Austin vs. McMahon & that nWo angle doesn't fit either one of those spots. Erm...nWo angle is best angle in history (my subjective opinion) & just because you named a great feud that was perhaps only other angle that drew more money then nWo angle doesn't mean that it was better.
ProWrestlingFan
Championship Contender
Yes NWO was the best angle ever thats why it is used by different wrestling companies like WWE and TNA again and again.
Hulk Hogan turning heel was way bigger than Austin/McMahon or Bret Hart/Stone Cold imo.
Hulk Hogan turning heel was way bigger than Austin/McMahon or Bret Hart/Stone Cold imo.
Mustang Sally
Sells seashells by the seashore
My initial reason for being fascinated by the nWo idea was also the same reason I came to resent it. When Scott Hall first showed up on WCW programming, issuing his "Our three best guys against your three best guys" challenge, I didn't know he had left WWE and joined the competition. Even though his WWE name wasn't used that night, he appeared in his "Razor Ramon" mode.....I'm told he still used the Cuban accent...... and I foolishly believed the two big wrestling companies had decided to join forces and do a program. I thought the whole thing was fantastic and tuned in for several more weeks before learning for sure that WCW had deliberately thrown us a curve. By then, I was interested in what was happening, yet simultaneously disgusted by the whole thing.
MrMojoRisin
Championship Contender
That was the big draw to the NWO.
Remember, this was all in the early days of the Internet, so it wasn't common knowledge that Hall had left the WWF and signed with WCW. There weren't 90 day no compete clauses back then, so Hall had just been on WWF TV a mere weeks before showing up on Nitro.
It was a common fantasy at the time (especially through the magazines) that one day, the WWF and WCW would get together and have their best fight each other. When Hall showed up and said 'we're taking over', it seemed that was coming true, and it was exciting. They made it seem more real when Nash arrived too, and just like you said, by the time they revealed that these Outsiders had nothing to do with the WWF, people were hooked. Then when Hogan was revealed as the third man? Fawgetaboutit. The NWO was officially the biggest thing in wrestling since Wrestlemania III, and remarkably, it wasn't the WWF that was drawing in the casual viewers for once.
They carried the angle on far too long. Let the NWO become too bloated. Beat that horse about 12 feet into the ground. But the start of the angle? It was just superb, and I'd absolutely say that it was the best start ever.
If anyone doesn't think it was the greatest angle of all time, it's because they're also looking at what the NWO became... and I can't fault anyone for that.
The greatest of all time, start to finish... would have to be Austin/McMahon. They didn't let that completely take over programming far beyond it's best before date like the NWO. It drew people in like mad. It was compelling. It helped make main eventers (I'll argue that Foley and the Rock both got their final push to the top of the card as a part of that overall angle). And when it was finally done as the centerpiece feud, they still managed to draw on the history of it for years to enhance further storylines (heel Austin singing to McMahon with Vince cringing is a drawback to the beginning, when McMahon wanted Austin to be his corporate champion - he finally got what he wanted with Austin on his side, and this was what he got?)
SinCityBlitz
Crossface Chickenwing
The biggest and best angle of all time is the Rock 'n' Wrestling Connection. That helped get Hogan over in a whole new way and it paved the way for Wrestlemania. WWF wrestlers were all over TV thanks to MTV. That took wrestling to a higher spot than the nWo did.
If this angle failed there would have been one Wrestlemania and no nWo. This angle alone got so many top talents over.
But I would put the nWo at four on my list.
1-Rock 'n' Wrestling Connection
2- The Four Horsemen(The best group of all time. No one else is even close.)
3- Montreal Screwjob(yeah Bret may not have known about it but it was HUGE)
4- nWo
5 Austin/ McMahon
If this angle failed there would have been one Wrestlemania and no nWo. This angle alone got so many top talents over.
But I would put the nWo at four on my list.
1-Rock 'n' Wrestling Connection
2- The Four Horsemen(The best group of all time. No one else is even close.)
3- Montreal Screwjob(yeah Bret may not have known about it but it was HUGE)
4- nWo
5 Austin/ McMahon
HBKistheHOF
Guest
I disagree. I think that the Rock N' Wrestling, Montreal Screw Job, & Austin/McMahon were all more entertaining, meaningful, & better executed angles. As well as both The Four Horsemen & D-Generation X being more entertaining & overall better teams/factions/angles.
Not to mention after the initial shock of guys like Luger, Nash & Hall showing up on Nitro & Hogan turning heel, the angle fell very flat IMO. They started all these bs sub-nWo groups like the wolfpack & they started involving people like Denise Rodman, David Arquette, & Vince Russo in storylines. It became an even bigger mess than The New Nexus & The Corre.
Not to mention after the initial shock of guys like Luger, Nash & Hall showing up on Nitro & Hogan turning heel, the angle fell very flat IMO. They started all these bs sub-nWo groups like the wolfpack & they started involving people like Denise Rodman, David Arquette, & Vince Russo in storylines. It became an even bigger mess than The New Nexus & The Corre.
NWO was awesome. What about Stone Cold winning King of the Ring and then delivering probably the best speech of the decade? Not a single speech NWO gave was on the level of the one Stone Cold delivered as he stood on that stage.
When I was in middle school the DX fad and the NWO fad was seriously amazingly relevant. A huge percentage of the male students watched wrestling, some obviously more than others. Kids walking around doing the "suck it" and also kids doing the Wolf Pac hand shake or whatever it was.
I can say that I had favorite angles other than NWO. It is tough to say that they are actually BETTER than Hogan turning heel after all those years. Nash & Hall. Possibly the best part of the NWO angle was when Sting was falling from the rafters with multiple baseball bats in his black trench coat. Coming down fast on that zipline and there were times you could see him stumble as he landed he was coming down so fast.
I am old school though. Angles like Hogans vs Warrior, each owning a belt just stand out more for me. Macho Man vs Hogan Wrestlemania 5 angle excites me more than the NWO. NWO was cool but NONE of them could deliver a single good match. That effects the angle for me. The atmosphere surrounding certain Wrestlemania's and certain angles that barely lasted, stand out just as much. Hart vs Piper. That angle was classic and it was followed up by a classic match. All NWO did was deliver good Nitro's. Nitro used their roster that wasn't in NWO to deliver the wrestling excitement, and used NWO's "Badassness" and "street thug" approach take care of the rest.
At least guys like Shawn Michaels and Triple H were delivering classic matches while in DX. Same goes for Stone Cold. I am just being the devil's advocate here it is tough to say what is the BEST angle.
NWO definitely had one of the longest lasting angles which really helps their case.
When I was in middle school the DX fad and the NWO fad was seriously amazingly relevant. A huge percentage of the male students watched wrestling, some obviously more than others. Kids walking around doing the "suck it" and also kids doing the Wolf Pac hand shake or whatever it was.
I can say that I had favorite angles other than NWO. It is tough to say that they are actually BETTER than Hogan turning heel after all those years. Nash & Hall. Possibly the best part of the NWO angle was when Sting was falling from the rafters with multiple baseball bats in his black trench coat. Coming down fast on that zipline and there were times you could see him stumble as he landed he was coming down so fast.
I am old school though. Angles like Hogans vs Warrior, each owning a belt just stand out more for me. Macho Man vs Hogan Wrestlemania 5 angle excites me more than the NWO. NWO was cool but NONE of them could deliver a single good match. That effects the angle for me. The atmosphere surrounding certain Wrestlemania's and certain angles that barely lasted, stand out just as much. Hart vs Piper. That angle was classic and it was followed up by a classic match. All NWO did was deliver good Nitro's. Nitro used their roster that wasn't in NWO to deliver the wrestling excitement, and used NWO's "Badassness" and "street thug" approach take care of the rest.
At least guys like Shawn Michaels and Triple H were delivering classic matches while in DX. Same goes for Stone Cold. I am just being the devil's advocate here it is tough to say what is the BEST angle.
NWO definitely had one of the longest lasting angles which really helps their case.
BigThunder
Pre-Show Stalwart
I was never a big fan of the NWO to be honest.
I much preferred the Horsemen or the Freebirds as heel stables. As for angles, I enjoyed more, here's a few of many:
The Savage/Roberts feud. Let's face it, the snake may have been devenomed, but, even with the red X, I was still watching a man get bit by a cobra on live TV, and the damn thing was not wanting to let go. That's probably the most intense moment I've seen in wrestling that didn't involve an actual tragedy.
As a Canucklehead, I thought the Hart Foundation vs. America feud was pretty great. Bret being a hero outside the United States was incredibly ballsy, and going back and forth between Canadian and American cities gave it a real rivalry feeling that I've rarely seen in this business. This blew away any international angle done before this feud, and hasn't come close to being equalled since.
Let me also stick up for last year's Punk/Cena feud. The PG era has been widely slammed, but it's given us at least three great feuds: Edge/Cena, Jericho/HBK. and this one. The build up from Punk's faux-shoot until the title change was absolutely incredible, and Cena and Punk were both doing great work, in and out of the ring, the entire time.
I much preferred the Horsemen or the Freebirds as heel stables. As for angles, I enjoyed more, here's a few of many:
The Savage/Roberts feud. Let's face it, the snake may have been devenomed, but, even with the red X, I was still watching a man get bit by a cobra on live TV, and the damn thing was not wanting to let go. That's probably the most intense moment I've seen in wrestling that didn't involve an actual tragedy.
As a Canucklehead, I thought the Hart Foundation vs. America feud was pretty great. Bret being a hero outside the United States was incredibly ballsy, and going back and forth between Canadian and American cities gave it a real rivalry feeling that I've rarely seen in this business. This blew away any international angle done before this feud, and hasn't come close to being equalled since.
Let me also stick up for last year's Punk/Cena feud. The PG era has been widely slammed, but it's given us at least three great feuds: Edge/Cena, Jericho/HBK. and this one. The build up from Punk's faux-shoot until the title change was absolutely incredible, and Cena and Punk were both doing great work, in and out of the ring, the entire time.
themusicman
Occasional Pre-Show
I have really enjoyed everyone's suggestions so far. I wanted to start by asking a question. Is there a difference between 'the best angle' and the commercially most successful angle ever? The NWO was a massive commercial success without a doubt, its been discussed already but at the start it put WCW in the spotlight and then moved them into pole position as a company, but the idea was ripped from New Japan and as others have said the constant rehashing of it over later years tarnished its memory for me a little bit, but there is no doubt that it made great viewing. Austin v Vince was brilliant, new, fresh and something different again it got WWF back into the running in its battle against WCW and ultimatley laid the foundations for their victory. Since then the same idea has been re-done several times, but never as well (Vince v God anyone?). So maybe 'the best' does relate to commercial success, however there have been quite a few angles over the years that have been brilliant but because of where they took place or when they took place dont recieve that same amount of praise. Here are a few off of the top of my head:
1) Brian Pilman - Loose Cannon- He leaves WCW (or does he?) joins ECW (or does he?) finally appears in WWF. Have a look at some of his interactions with the likes of Shane Douglas during his ECW appearences, the line between work and shoot is so blurred it makes for great viewing.
2) Jerry Lawler v Brett Hart - a personal favourite - Jerry attacks Brett after KOTR and sparks a bitter rivalry that runs and runs and even brings in Brett's parents.
3) Steve Austin in ECW - Another early ECW classic - check out his anti-Hogan promo's they are amazing. He really started creating the 'Stone Cold' character in ECW and broke new ground.
4)Brett v Owen - not so much for the build up which was ok but these two had some awesome matches against each other (check out their match at Wrestlmania X) it also helped that Brett wasnt against jobbing for Owen.
5)Shane Douglas throws away the NWA belt in the trash. This started ECW, this one angle started an entire revolution, Douglas won a tournament and in a move supposedly known to only Heyman, Todd Gorden and himself threw his prize (the NWA title) in the trash and introduced the ECW world title. There have been many discussions since about who really knew what was going on but still, at the time it felt edgy and suprising.
6) Colt Cabana v Homicide - a great storyline that included some excellent matches and soldified Cabana as more than just a comedy figure.
So anyway sorry if I have asked more questions than answered them but I suppose I am asking if people think that for something to be the 'best angle ever' it has to draw lots of money or PPV buys or if it should be more to do with story telling and match quality? Im playing devils advocate here so feel free to respond
1) Brian Pilman - Loose Cannon- He leaves WCW (or does he?) joins ECW (or does he?) finally appears in WWF. Have a look at some of his interactions with the likes of Shane Douglas during his ECW appearences, the line between work and shoot is so blurred it makes for great viewing.
2) Jerry Lawler v Brett Hart - a personal favourite - Jerry attacks Brett after KOTR and sparks a bitter rivalry that runs and runs and even brings in Brett's parents.
3) Steve Austin in ECW - Another early ECW classic - check out his anti-Hogan promo's they are amazing. He really started creating the 'Stone Cold' character in ECW and broke new ground.
4)Brett v Owen - not so much for the build up which was ok but these two had some awesome matches against each other (check out their match at Wrestlmania X) it also helped that Brett wasnt against jobbing for Owen.
5)Shane Douglas throws away the NWA belt in the trash. This started ECW, this one angle started an entire revolution, Douglas won a tournament and in a move supposedly known to only Heyman, Todd Gorden and himself threw his prize (the NWA title) in the trash and introduced the ECW world title. There have been many discussions since about who really knew what was going on but still, at the time it felt edgy and suprising.
6) Colt Cabana v Homicide - a great storyline that included some excellent matches and soldified Cabana as more than just a comedy figure.
So anyway sorry if I have asked more questions than answered them but I suppose I am asking if people think that for something to be the 'best angle ever' it has to draw lots of money or PPV buys or if it should be more to do with story telling and match quality? Im playing devils advocate here so feel free to respond
FlairFan2003
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Was the NWO the biggest angle ? I would say initially yes, the Invasion, Hogan Heel Turn, and the subsequent uniting WCW partisans like Flair & Sting was extremely popular and energizing with the fans. I think Andre's heel turn was comparable, especially since it was as surprising as Hogan while setting the stage for the biggest singles match of all time.
There is no doubt the angle got bogged down and became non sensical in 1998. The Hogan return, Nash heel turn, and NWO Reformation in Jan 99 was very over with fans, especially with how popular Flair was in his return and of course Goldberg, if WCW had maintained the NWO angle with Goldberg as their main adversary and Flair as President, they would have been much more successful. WCW had some attrocious booking post Feb 99 (De emphasizing Goldberg, never following up on Goldberg vs Hogan or having a full blown feud with Nash, burying Flair and turning him heel, completely waisting Injury returns of Hart & Sting) and ultimately it cost them. That said, the initial phase of the NWO angle & Invasion was extremely successful and could easily be called the biggest of all time.
FlairFan2003
Mid-Card Championship Winner
The "Best Angle" can definately be different than the "Most Successful" which is tied strictly to money. The Best is far more subjective. I would say the initial Invasion, Hogan Heel Turn, and the uniting of all the waring factions of WCW, this was a great angle, lots of twists, energetic fan response, compelling story, PLUS it made $$.
Personally I enjoyed the "$10,000 Challenge" Angle with Tully Blanchard as he offered 10 grand to anyone who could beat him for the TV Title - in 10 minutes that is. Blanchard as always was gold on the mic, Brad Armstrong got a nice push as one of the tougher chalengers, and the swerve where Dusty Rhodes offered $100,000 of his own money for a title shot (with a 60 min time limit), this was classic stuff, maybe the best part being the Horsemen swerve to steal the money from crippled Magnum TA (stealing the match too). It remains one of my all time fav angles, it would be a personal contender for "Best Angle" all time in my subjective view. In terms of success, although it was popular and towards the end it did main event, it doesnt compare with The NWO Angle as the "Most Successful" or "Biggest" angle of all time.
boozinjedi
Getting Noticed By Management
When it first started it was HUGE,But it got dragged out too long,The groups got too big.
When a new star showed up on the scene to join whoever the big face was at the time to fight the nWo.....swerve!!
Got to the point where you could almost predict it!!
There's one moment that stands out in my memory from early in the angle,
When they jumped the locker room area at an outdoor nitro I think?...
Lex Luger and Arn Anderson were both laid out and about to loaded into an amublance..Sting and Ric Flair wanted to go with their guys,
the medic looked at them both and asked if there was gonna be any problems and they both said no.
WTF!!
Two guys who for the better part of a decade had a deep,blood hatrid of one another....sharing an ambulance??
That stands out about all else!!
When a new star showed up on the scene to join whoever the big face was at the time to fight the nWo.....swerve!!
Got to the point where you could almost predict it!!
There's one moment that stands out in my memory from early in the angle,
When they jumped the locker room area at an outdoor nitro I think?...
Lex Luger and Arn Anderson were both laid out and about to loaded into an amublance..Sting and Ric Flair wanted to go with their guys,
the medic looked at them both and asked if there was gonna be any problems and they both said no.
WTF!!
Two guys who for the better part of a decade had a deep,blood hatrid of one another....sharing an ambulance??
That stands out about all else!!
what pompous ass.... "but ill try", if that was you trying not to be rude you must be a nightmare to deal with when you are trying to be a smart arse.. get a life man.. the guy was stating an opinion and obviously looking for others thoughts.. " i dont really understand the reasoning behind this thread" sad sad sad... move out of your granmas basement
relentless1
G.O.A.T.
dont want to spend much time writing here today but i will say this, nWo was the greatest angle of all time, look at the ripple effects; because of heel boss bischoff, we got mr mcmahon, because of the original wolfpac, we got dx... nWo brought in dennis rodman, wwf brought in mike tyson; wwf attitude came right from the attitude of the nWo and it started what is known as the greatest period of exposure wrestling has ever seen before or since so yeah id say that nWo = greatest angle ever
HBKperfect23
Championship Contender
The Invasion by Hall and Nash was great. This is what started bluring the lines of kayfabe/reality (in main stream wrestling) leading into the wrestling boom.
But lets not forget this has been done in similair ways before. The NWO concept was a rehashed Japanease angle. The WWF/WCW invasion was also done in 1991 when Ric Flair showed up on WWF tv.....with their world title.
Combine that invasion with the Hogan heel turn, I think we have to call it the biggest angle ever. The biggest babyface in history who was never ever going to turn heel....turned heel. I never saw anything like it. I was never a WCW guy but this made me watch weeks of, at least some parts, of Nitro.
That being said, the angle was so drawn out, got so stale and IMO, had a negative impact on the direction of pro wrestling. I think it would be remembered better if the entire WCW company didnt join the NWO and the angle ended before it got beyond boring.
EDIT: Reading back through some posts, Ill have to take the Rock-N-Wrestling angle into consideration. Its one of the two. Rock-N-Wrestling started Wrestlemania, brought in celeberties, and brought wrestling mainstream. This was more entertaining then the NWO angle but I dont know which had a bigger impact. Austin/McMahon was the answer for the NWO, although it was a lot more enjoyable, the NWO was the orginator of the rebel vs authority concept during this time.
But lets not forget this has been done in similair ways before. The NWO concept was a rehashed Japanease angle. The WWF/WCW invasion was also done in 1991 when Ric Flair showed up on WWF tv.....with their world title.
Combine that invasion with the Hogan heel turn, I think we have to call it the biggest angle ever. The biggest babyface in history who was never ever going to turn heel....turned heel. I never saw anything like it. I was never a WCW guy but this made me watch weeks of, at least some parts, of Nitro.
That being said, the angle was so drawn out, got so stale and IMO, had a negative impact on the direction of pro wrestling. I think it would be remembered better if the entire WCW company didnt join the NWO and the angle ended before it got beyond boring.
EDIT: Reading back through some posts, Ill have to take the Rock-N-Wrestling angle into consideration. Its one of the two. Rock-N-Wrestling started Wrestlemania, brought in celeberties, and brought wrestling mainstream. This was more entertaining then the NWO angle but I dont know which had a bigger impact. Austin/McMahon was the answer for the NWO, although it was a lot more enjoyable, the NWO was the orginator of the rebel vs authority concept during this time.
"Eric Bischoff didn't steal the UWFI vs. NJPW fued from NJPW he simply took the concept & made a different & better version of it." Kind of like how Led Zeppelin didn't steal Stairway to Heaven from Taurus, they just took everything about it and changed the words to make it better? What you just described is theft. You can steal a car and sup it up on your own, but you still just stole a car. You didn't design the model, you didn't make it, and you didn't buy it, you just stole it and sold it at a higher price after you flashed it up. That's just a chop shop. We can agree to disagree because this is my opinion on this subject and I'm not going to waffle on it. I've stated my point and that's all I'm going to say on the issue.
Now that I've gotten that out of my system, here's what the nWo amounts to:
1) The Outsiders
2) Hogan heel turn
3) Three bad-to-awful Starrcade matches (96,97,98)
4) "Vanilla Midgets"
5) at one point Stevie Ray lead the faction
6) Hogan/Warrior Halloween Havoc
7) The Fingerpoke of Doom
8) Killing Goldberg's run with a cattle prod
I'm leaving plenty off, but all your stats don't change the fact that Stone Cold v McMahon and his Corporation was better booked than the nWo. It made stars out of Stone Cold, Rock, Mick Foley, arguably Triple H, etc. and you said it yourself that it, "perhaps," drew more money ("& just because you named a great feud that was perhaps only other angle that drew more money then nWo angle doesn't mean that it was better."). So, what part about it was worse than the nWo? How it was more entertaining and fresh? How it made stars that are still main eventing WrestleMania today? They just made a brand new video game based almost entirely around the 98-99 Austin/McMahon Attitude Era angle, close to fifteen years after the fact. I think that's telling of how lasting that angle is.
I know I've been hard on nWo. It's because I hated it back in '98; bad heat, not the heat where I tune in. Still, for the first couple of years, it was one of the greatest angles of all-time. As hard as I've been on nWo, I never said that it wasn't an all-timer. But better than Austin v McMahon? I think one company won for a reason. So before you nitpick the shit out of my arguments, maybe consider that all this stat-checking on a wrestling message board isn't going to change my opinion, unless you're R.D. Reynolds and you just have this stuff memorized, I guess. I was being too hard on the nWo angle, but I maintain my original opinion.
By the way, ratings don't mean as much, in the long run. I know that sounds like I'm just covering by butt, but buy-rates are what matter. Bischoff killed his own booking by putting ppv drawing matches on for free just to get those ratings, so they came at a price. I don't know the WCW buy-rates nor do I care to look. Maybe they were good for a while, I don't know. From what I remember from The Death of WCW, I think they got pretty terrible. Also, they used to put on shows like Hog Wild at Sturgis that were free to attend so it drew zero gate. Finally, WCW's ratings didn't mean as much profit as you'd think, as historically many top-dollar companies/corporations don't want to pay to put on commercials during wrestling. Toyota thinks us fans are too poor and stupid to drive a Camry.
ProWrestlingFan
Championship Contender
How it made stars that are still main eventing WrestleMania today?
What stars? Vince McMahon,Steve Austin? What Wrestlemania main-events has Steve Austin been in since 2003?
What part about it was worse than the nWo?
Austin vs Rock at WM 15 with main focus on Vince?
Austin's failed heel turn in 2001?
Austin and McMahon become friends and play guitar songs then Austin turns face again?
The NWO was a great angle for a couple of months.The problem was it was the same thing every week, someone gets beat up and the following week they were NWO.The greatest angle of all time the Montreal screw job. It has stood the test of time,to this day it is talked about and got much more mainstream media attention then the NWO ever did plus it spawned the Mr. McMahon character.