Nun Excommunicated For Approving A Life-Saving Abortion

[Jack-Hammer]

This is something that's been making a lot of headlines not only in the United States today but also around the world.

It involves a 27 year old female patient at St. Joseph's Hostpital & Medical Center in Phoenix, Arizona becoming extremely ill. She's informed by doctors at the hospital that unless she aborts her 11 week old fetus, she will most likely die.

A nun by the name of Sister Margaret McBride was part of an ethics panel at the hospital, a panel that also includes doctors, that spoke with the woman concerning her options. The woman, whose name hasn't been released to the press I believe, had the procedure performed and is in fact alive. However, the Phoenix Catholic Diocese, led by Bishop Thomas Olmsted, automatically excommunicated Sister Margaret McBride, effectively banning her from participating within the Roman Catholic Church.

St. Joseph's is a Catholic hospital in which abortions are almost exclusively prohibited. Bishop Olmsted is quoted as saying, "An unborn child is not a disease. While medical professionals should certainly try to save a pregnant mother's life, the means by which they do it can never be by directly killing her unborn child."

CNN spoke with a canon lawyer at Loyola University of Chicago named Father Kevin O'Rourke. O'Rourke says that it's extremely unusual for a nun to be excommunicated. He indicates that, according to the cannons, the excommunication is valid only if the person in question acts out of deliberate desire to violate the laws. Basically, there has to be malicious intent in order tor it to be considered a true violation of the canons.

A pro choice group called Catholics for Choice is saying that the Bishop's actions are problematic for all Catholic hospitals and medical centers. Jon O'Brien, the president and spokesman for the group says "If those medical personnel are going to be intimidated, does that mean that those hospitals are no longer safe places because it's the bishop who dictates what happens or what doesn't happen as opposed to the people who actually know what they're doing and can act in the best interest of the woman and her family?"

CNN is reporting that sources have told them that Sister McBride has met requirements for the excommunication to be lifted. She's been reassigned at the hospital, though the hospital is saying that they stand by her.

This is a story that's been a pretty hot topic as it revolves around abortion, which is probably the single most hotly contested topic of social policy in the United States. Do you agree with the Bishop's decision to excommunicate the nun? Did the nun do what was right and/or the only thing she could in order to help save a young woman's life?

 

[HBK-aholic]

Have we not yet realised the 'pro-life' movement is the BIGGEST piece of bullshit in the world? It doesn't even make sense here - if you're 'pro-life', wouldn't you want to save at least ONE of the lives (That being the mother)? If she died, the baby would die anyway, so any rational person would see losing one life is 'better' than losing two. Of course, being 'pro-life' is like admitting you know nothing about rationality.

This also shows why I am very sceptical of the Catholic Church. It is WAY too conservative to make any sense in this world. The nun was completely in the right - would any of you just allow a woman to die? Saving someones life should not, in any way, lead to bad things happening to you. The nun should realise how absolutely stupid the Churches stance on this is and find a Church which makes sense.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Was the bishop right? Well yea. If it explicity says she can't do that, and she did it, well, you gotta do what ya gotta do. If she knew going in what would happen (I assume so) and didn't want that to happen, then she should have declined the situation, and had someone else come in to take cae of it.

Obviously the nun did the right thing, as you don't need two folks to do die, if the woman in question didn't so wish to die. I'm all about saving lives. If the baby is donefor anyway, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Both sides did what they felt they had to do.

 

[Remix]

Was the Bishop right to excommunicate her? Yes. If the rules state 'no abortions', and that excomunication may be considered if an individual intentionally breaks the rules then excommunication is a reasonable punishment.

Do I think that 'no abortions' should be the rule? Fuck no for two reasons. The first is that people have the right (within reason) to do what they like to their bodies. If they can convince a doctor that it's better to have an abortion, then they should have the right to do that. The second (which is more important to this case) is that at this stage of development, the baby is essentially a tumour. It's taking the body's resources to rapidly grow, it's developed its own blood supply, and it was killing the mother. What the doctors did was the equivalent of removing a tumour. In this case, and any others like it the life of the mother matters more than the 'life' of the foetus which cannot exits without its living, beathing life support machine.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The way I look at it personally, this woman was put in an impossible situation. As much as the religious right wants to believe that the world is black and white, the truth is that it's not. I think this situation is a very good example of just how gray things are.

I'm Pro-Choice, I believe in a woman's right to control her own reproduction. To me though, that's not really what this is about. It's more about basic humanity for me than anything else. This woman, whomever she is, has been told by her doctors that she's almost certainly going to die if she doesn't terminate her pregnancy. The Bishop says that an unborn child is not a disease and while I most certainly agree with that overall, in this particular case, that's exactly what the fetus was. It's presence was literally killing the woman carrying it. I don't see what alternative any reputable medical professional would have had, Catholic hospital or not. If you terminate the pregnancy, a woman that's here can continue her life. If you don't, she is going to die and the fetus is going to die right along with her anyway. I personally can't imagine what kind of hell this young woman might be experiencing right now. God willing, I hope I never have to. But, at least now, she has the chance to go on with her life and, maybe in the future, she'll be able to carry a pregnancy to term in which both she and the baby are safe.

As for the nun, I can't fault her for her decision. Like the mother, she was placed in an impossible situation. Approve a procedure to save a young woman's life, even though said procedure violates her beliefs, or do nothing and watch both of them die. For me, it's a no brainer but that's me. Perhaps she could have stepped aside and allowed someone else to make the call, then again maybe not. Maybe time was of the essence and there simply wasn't enough time for the paper pushers and bureaucrats at the hospital to fight it out over this. Even if it wasn't, facing tough choices such as this one was part of the nun's job.

I personally don't believe she deserved to be excommunicated. There wasn't anything malicious about her intentions. After all, she didn't just say "Eh, fuck the kid. Somebody go get the scraper." I think it would have been malicious to stand back and do nothing. I heard a quote once, I'm not sure who said it, but it went a little something like this, "Evil prevailes when good men stand by and do nothing." Yeah, I know it sounds like something you'd read in a comic book back in the 1940s, but there's truth to it. I think it would have been evil to just watch this patient die knowing that there was something you could do in order to help save her life.

 

[Razor]

Catholics have that pesky little law called "Listen to the Pope."

For, you see, anything the Pope says is the voice of the Church, and anything the Church says holds the weight of Religious Law.

Catholics say no Abortion no matter what. The death of the mother is seen as God simply killing the woman because it was her time. The impregnation of a rape victim or a incestuous relationship is seen as God choosing that time to allow the miracle of impregnation.

The same idea goes into "Medical Euthanasia." Catholics believe that any suffering can only be seen as a way for God to allow that person to know the ultimate suffering of Jesus Christ while he was being crucified on the cross for our sins.

As such, there shall be no Abortions or instances of Medical Euthanasia practiced by any Catholic. If they are, then they fall under the heading of Automatic Excommunication, because these sins have been named by the Pope as worthy of automatic excommunication.

So was the Bishop right? Hells yes. He gave his life to upholding the laws of the Church. This was a simple matter of upholding an order for automatic excommunication.

Was the Nun right? I believe so. She apparently did as well, because she had to know this was a possible outcome when the Ethics board approved the procedure.

This was a simple case of cut and dry Religious Law.

However, the implications are huge. A Catholic hospital allowed an abortion in the case of dire need? This shatters a precedent, alright.