No Mercy: World Heavyweight Championship Ladder Match: HBK Vs. Jericho

I am really excited to see this match. I believe it will main event the show and steal the show too. I can't really see Michael's winning the title and Jericho losing the title this early in his reign so I see some interference and Jericho walking away the winner. Again the match will be good and I think a rematch may come from this if there is interference. Literally can't wait for this match.
 
This has Match of the Year written all over it. It might be better than Edge/Taker in HiaC.

Funny thing about that, you're almost sure to get some type of award for the end of year awards if you continue repeating what you're doing until someone thinks one match is better than the other.

Jericho and Shawn Michaels have faced each other, or 'will have faced each other' a total of 3 times with this being the 4th time. While they've spaced those matches out over the course of the year, I wouldn't exactly say that's a great thing.. just because there isn't much they can continue to really do, and the fake injury after fake injury is beginning to actually make people dislike Shawn Michaels for being like what some thought he was originally in 1997.

I'm not sold on any type of "Match of the Year" choices between them just yet, but I will say this is likely going to win best Feud of the Year.. just because they've managed to keep it going, without it getting COMPLETELY boring. (notice the caps, it's because to a degree, it's getting there now)

Jake was right, Shawn gained his revenge for his Wife.. if he loses now, it'll be all for not and pointless. Sure, he'll have won the 'Unsanctioned' match.. but in the end, if he loses now he'll rack up one more loss in a match some consider him the best at.. when his record IN this match is technically 1-3. (on national television) Can't really see how he's considered anything "great" at this match type, when he's only (barely) won one.

However, unlike Edge/Taker, this feud hasn't lost any steam since the beginning.

That's because they didn't fight 4 times, IN A ROW. And Edge/Taker, assuming HIAC is their last match this year, went out on a VERY high note and quite possibly WITH the 'MOTY' award in hand, err Cell.

All in all.. I'm coming to a couple theories about this match though. They're once again pushing Shawn Michaels as being the 'best' at this match, and I'm almost sure Jericho will push Michaels losing streak. If that happens, then Shawn Michaels will almost definately WIN just to prove he IS the 'best' at this match.. only to drop the title to Jericho a month later perhaps.

However, if they build and build H.B.K. as the 'best' without any mention of his record being anything but.. then Jericho will obviously win, just to reclaim himself as the 'new best'. Once more I have to state, I find it really hard to see Shawn dropping this match, without losing everything he's fought Jericho for in the first place. (meaning, everything he's done will be all for not if H.B.K. loses)
 
This has Match of the Year written all over it.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves now...when people start to call a Match of the Year weeks BEFORE it happens...I tend to think those people are not very smart.

It might be better than Edge/Taker in HiaC.
God I hope so, because that match was complete and utter shit. One of the worst main-events of the year. "Oooh, they fought outside the case...ooh, they went through a table, let's give them MOTY! ECW! ECW! ECW!" :rolleyes:

I hope this match is better than that one because that one is terrible. However, I'm not holding out much hope for this one. Anyone else find it disconcerting that they keep having to be booked in gimmick matches to make an interesting match? And that, their matches haven't come close to touching the quality of their WM 19 match? Jericho is definitely doing his part...but HBK?

HBK is proving what I said about him for the last few years. HBK has done checked out. He doesn't care anymore. He's decided that he's content with where he's at, and he has no ambition to be any better. He has had two feuds over the last few years where I felt HBK cared at all about what he was doing. And that was his feud with Cena, and his build-up to his match with Flair. And the Flair match was average, at best, (but I put that on Flair, not HBK). And, we saw what a motivated HBK can do when given a good worker to work with whenever he and Cena tore the house down.

So, basically, HBK needs a kick in the ass, someone to tell him how sucky he is. Because, at this point, that's basically what's going on. HBK has sucked, and even Jericho hasn't been able to get a good match out him. Hell, if Jericho hadn't played such a damn good character, this feud would have gone nowhere, due to how bad HBK has performed.

So, we'll see. Hopefully, hopefully, someone will kick HBK in the ass and get him motivated for this match. Otherwise, Jericho is going to have a hard time getting a "Match of the Year" candidate out of this contest.
 
Ever since this feud started i have been wanting a ladder match between these two. They have both been in great ladder matches over the years. But they wouldn't have made it for the IC title, and jericho soon dropped that anyway. SO when Jericho won the big one i was hoping and praying for the ladder match. Watching raw i was so excited when michaels came out, and i knew where it was heading, but i was still euphoric when the ladder came out. I couldn't care less what direction wwe are taking it afterwards, and no one should. We should all just enjoy the greatest feud in a long time in what could be the match of the year. And here's hoping for a clean jericho win (no cade) which would prolong the feud even further. well done vince.
 
I really hope HBK win's but I don't see it happening. Not yet, Cade will screw him out of it. Then HBK versus HB Cade will take place.

Anyone else think HBK had some hair work done? It looked really thick Monday.
 
If HBK not wins at No Mercy, according to me, WWE can put an angle where HBK and Jericho continue to battle in matches with lame endings and Jericho retaining the title until WM25. Orton could be introduced as a mysterious third opponent or might replace either one of them like Jericho did CM Punk and win the WHC.

I don't know whether WWE would give another reign to Michales cause, one month before, the man was retiring and a month later, champ ? sounds wierd...
 
And that, their matches haven't come close to touching the quality of their WM 19 match?

I agree here to an extent. None of their recent matches have been as good as their WM19 match. But I don't think they're as far apart as you're making out.

Jericho is definitely doing his part...but HBK?

Weren't you the poster who used to kill people who give the opposition to Cena all the credit for a good match? This feud has been amazing. The matches have been very good. You can't say Shawn hasn't done his part in that.

HBK is proving what I said about him for the last few years. HBK has done checked out. He doesn't care anymore.

Of course he cares. He has knee and back trouble, to say the least. If he didn't care, he'd leave.


He's decided that he's content with where he's at, and he has no ambition to be any better.

Can't get much better than the Heartbreak Kid tbh. I'm sure you'll say it's just because I'm a big fan of him I'm saying this, but it's true. He's done it all, and even now he's going out there and tearing the house down, recieving huge pops, having great feuds, great matches, putting people over.

He has had two feuds over the last few years where I felt HBK cared at all about what he was doing. And that was his feud with Cena, and his build-up to his match with Flair.

The Cena feud is overrated if you ask me. I disagree they were the only 2 times he's 'cared'. As I said above, if he didn't really care about what he was doing, he'd retire and never return to the business.

And the Flair match was average, at best, (but I put that on Flair, not HBK). And, we saw what a motivated HBK can do when given a good worker to work with whenever he and Cena tore the house down.

The Flair match I don't have a proper opinion on. because of the emotion in that match, and from the fans. It's all I, and a lot of people, remember.

So, basically, HBK needs a kick in the ass, someone to tell him how sucky he is. Because, at this point, that's basically what's going on. HBK has sucked, and even Jericho hasn't been able to get a good match out him.

This is laughable. HBK does not 'suck'. He is one of the best guys on the roster. Jericho has got a 'good' match out of him. Not one of their matches has been bad.

Hell, if Jericho hadn't played such a damn good character, this feud would have gone nowhere, due to how bad HBK has performed.

You cannot pin down a great feud to just one person.
 
This match should be good cause both these guys are good at ladder matches. WWE is pushing the fact that HBK is known for ladder matches but people forget so is Jericho.I think Jericho will win and this is not the end of their feud. They will have one more match in their feud but it most likely wont be for the title and i think it will happen at the Survivor Series. A Jericho win ties them both at 2 wins apiece.
 
Okay, so i have a question??

=\ why do these two even need a gimmick in their match???? and why was a ladder match chosen as the gimmick, i think 3 stages of hell, or maybe an i quit match would be the way to go......if it HAS to be gimmick...but i really would like to see a good ol' wrestling match and these would be the best two to do it with...
 
Weren't you the poster who used to kill people who give the opposition to Cena all the credit for a good match? This feud has been amazing. The matches have been very good. You can't say Shawn hasn't done his part in that.
No, I'm the person who used to kill people because they said stupid things they didn't understand. They'd try and say that Wrestler A made a match because Cena couldn't wrestle. That's stupid.

Completely different here. We know what HBK can do. Which also means we can tell when his ass is having to be carried by Jericho.

Of course he cares. He has knee and back trouble, to say the least. If he didn't care, he'd leave.
Nah, it's not any physical ailment.

Personally, I think it's fear. Fear of going balls to the wall, because of a fear it would lead him to a situation that he used to be in. Something he doesn't want anymore.

Admirable, I suppose, but doesn't change what he is.

Can't get much better than the Heartbreak Kid tbh. I'm sure you'll say it's just because I'm a big fan of him I'm saying this, but it's true. He's done it all, and even now he's going out there and tearing the house down, recieving huge pops, having great feuds, great matches, putting people over.
I'm not sure I'd even put him in the Top 5. He's over on nostalgic memory alone. Everything is about what he's done, not what he can still do.

And even if you're the best, that doesn't mean you can't get better.

The Cena feud is overrated if you ask me. I disagree they were the only 2 times he's 'cared'. As I said above, if he didn't really care about what he was oing, he'd retire and never return to the business.
The feud is overrated, I agree.

The matches, however, were incredible.

The Flair match I don't have a proper opinion on. because of the emotion in that match, and from the fans. It's all I, and a lot of people, remember.
It was pretty crappy. I didn't care if Flair retired or not, so I just watched the match as a fan. And it was pretty crappy.

This is laughable. HBK does not 'suck'. He is one of the best guys on the roster. Jericho has got a 'good' match out of him. Not one of their matches has been bad.
HBK does suck, when he's not motivated. And, what is this "good match" they had? It certainly wasn't the unsanctioned match. It certainly wasn't at the Great American Bash.

When was this good match?

You cannot pin down a great feud to just one person.
When one guy has done ALL the work to get heat in a feud, while the other has just sulked and moaned the entire time...yeah, I think I can.
 
This feud hasn't been the best thing going like everybody is saying. For me personally, i thought it was a really boring feud even if it was a well made boring feud. The fact that Jericho had to turn hell when it should have been HBK that turn hell was what made this feud boring to me because at the beginning of the feud, that started i think back in june, i actually found myself agreeing with Jericho on everything that he said because it was true, but since the normal fans don't want to hate HBK, jericho had to turn and that's pretty much when the feud started to get stale because the wrong guy was place as the bad guy. now were officially 4 month in this feud, if you don'T count Backlash and judgement day, and it'S still not settle even with what should have been the blow off match last month. Give me a break, i know these are two of the most talented stars in the wwe and a ladder match between these two should be great but after that, where do you go with this feud. They already did the hardcore match, now there doing the ladder match so the only thing more violent then a ladder match is Hell In The Cell and i doubt that HBK would agree to do it.

So for me, i'm really not interested in seeing this match and i think that having this match for the world heavyweight championship is just plain stupid and at this stage in the feud they don'T need it.
 
Fucking fired up for this. In my opinion, this is WM main event quality. Im suprised people arent absolutely jumping for joy on this.

Jericho??

HBK???

WHC LADDER MATCH!!!!!??

yessir. This is gonna be fucking SWEET. No way ever HBK wins. but still. This should be damn ridiculously epic. Im not sure if its a feud ender, cus there is still loads of room for an unclean finish here, actually ESPECIALLY in this kind of thing. I expect nothing less than a MOTY canidate, and this will be the main thing attracting me to purchase this show. predictable finish, but this will be so damn good, that itll be worth watching. cant wait.
 
I'll agree with being a Shawn Michaels fan that I'm absolutely geared up and pulled to the moon for this match. But I can not in good standing consider that this match will be a MOTY, before I see it.

Why? Because the last time Shawn Michaels was pushed to compete in a ladder match.. it was against Triple H., in the 3 Stages of Hell. Anyone recall what exactly happened in the ladder portion of that match, that was so highly pushed?? A body splash from the middle of the ladder, or somewhat top, and a high spot off the ladder, through tables to end the match. Wow.. that's something. :rolleyes:

Ever since that match, H.B.K. and the thought of ladders have disappointed me since. If this were Edge, I might get somewhat pumped. If it were Jeff Hardy, I'd KNOW I was gonna see the ladder in major play.. but it's Jericho and Michaels, two guys that likely will be fighting each other by themselves, then bringing the ladder into play.

To be honest, I'm almost getting annoyed at anyone thinking Shawn Michaels and a ladder is anything "amazing". Even when he was younger, and in GOOD health, his ladder matches weren't 5 star by any means. He's older, injury prone, FAKE injury prone, and roughly in a sense.. "behind the 8 ball" in this match.

I'd love to see a Walls of Jericho from the top of the ladder, I'd be shocked if it happened. I'd love to see the ending have Shawn Michaels set up one ladder, and Superkick Jericho off another next to it, sending Jericho out of the ring, through tables or something like that.. but I doubt that'll happen.

I'm almost sure this will involve the ladder as a battering ram, possibly Lance Cade running interference throughout this WHOLE match, and finally Jericho picking up the victory without the ladder even remotely playing a HUGE role, except for being climbed to give the victor, victory. I'm excited for this match.. I'm just not expecting a huge deal from it. I wanna be pleasantly surprised and shocked in the end.
 
my first post in the wrestling section for quite sometime is on a topic that i could give two shits about.

Anyways,

This feud has been going on way too long. I cant get excited for this match because i already know the outcome. Jericho is going to win, if not it downgrades his ability to be a main eventer. There hasnt been a good ladder match and quite sometime, and not everything HBK touches turns to gold. The man is old, past his prime. This match is going to be rather boring. its going to be a brawl with or without the ladder. The match is a ladder match because both wrestlers have no drawing power whatsoever. They made it a ladder match so hopefully it sells.

So too sum it all up
1. The match will be a bore
2. Predictable outcome
3. Would be better if Michaels was in his prime
 
No, I'm the person who used to kill people because they said stupid things they didn't understand. They'd try and say that Wrestler A made a match because Cena couldn't wrestle. That's stupid.

Completely different here. We know what HBK can do. Which also means we can tell when his ass is having to be carried by Jericho.

The matches and this feud have been so good, you can't give all the credit to one person.

Nah, it's not any physical ailment.

Personally, I think it's fear. Fear of going balls to the wall, because of a fear it would lead him to a situation that he used to be in. Something he doesn't want anymore.

Admirable, I suppose, but doesn't change what he is.

But he is currently wrestling with physical problems. He’s returned from injuries most people would retire from. He could retire now and be one of the biggest stars in the WWE, and would be treated with a lot of respect, despite everything that happened in the past. He doesn’t really have anything to gain from staying; therefore he could easily just leave. He’s expressed views on wanting to cut down his schedule to spend time with his family. The reason he hasn’t quit completely is because he cares. This was always his dream, and it’s something he’s good at.


I'm not sure I'd even put him in the Top 5. He's over on nostalgic memory alone. Everything is about what he's done, not what he can still do.

And even if you're the best, that doesn't mean you can't get better.

I agree, I’m sure he could get better. I’m sure everyone could be better if you think of it that way. But I don’t agree he’s over on nostalgic memory alone. This feud with Jericho has been one of the best feuds in the WWE for a while. Many couldn’t do it. Point is he’s still having great feuds and good matches.


The feud is overrated, I agree.

The matches, however, were incredible.

Yeah the match on Raw was one of my favourites of last year.

It was pretty crappy. I didn't care if Flair retired or not, so I just watched the match as a fan. And it was pretty crappy.

Yeah this is why I said I don’t have a proper opinion on it. Because I was bothered about Flair retiring, and because I was bothered about Shawn being the one to do it. That match was like a goodbye and thank you from all his fans.

HBK does suck, when he's not motivated. And, what is this "good match" they had? It certainly wasn't the unsanctioned match. It certainly wasn't at the Great American Bash.

When was this good match?

Do you believe any of those matches were bad? Because I don’t. As was said, the match at Wrestlemania 19 was superior, but that doesn’t mean these ones aren’t good. They all helped further the feud along, which was the point of them.


When one guy has done ALL the work to get heat in a feud, while the other has just sulked and moaned the entire time...yeah, I think I can.

Shawn has done plenty in this feud. It would not have been as good without him in it.
 
Okay, so i have a question??

=\ why do these two even need a gimmick in their match???? and why was a ladder match chosen as the gimmick, i think 3 stages of hell, or maybe an i quit match would be the way to go......if it HAS to be gimmick...but i really would like to see a good ol' wrestling match and these would be the best two to do it with...

A part of this feud, if not a majority, is the similarity of Shawn and Jericho. With a similar look, similar moveset, similar promos etc. it was always going to come down to something like this. Shawn hit the nail on the head in a promo a few weeks ago where he stated Jericho would never be as good as him.

With this being said, Jericho has a need to prove that he is better than Shawn Michaels. And Shawn is the king of ladder matches. He was in the first match, and has had good ones since then. Whether you think he is the king of them or not, many people do, and it's something Shawn often refers to. For Jericho to beat Shawn in his own match would be a huge boost for Jericho, and a win over HBK at the beginning of his reign would stop doubters almost.
 
Jericho is not exactly a stranger to the ladder match, he beat Benoit for the IC title a few years ago at the royal rumble. Together with Benoit they beat Edge and Christian, The Dudleys and The Hardys in TLC III both of these matches as equally entertaining as ANY of Shawn Michaels ladder match. I agree with you though, Jericho taking this one would be a serious, SERIOUS rub for him, the kind of one that will push him up into that next echelon for proffesional wrestlers.

To be honest, and this is contreversial, but HBK should let Jericho go over him here. He has almost had his day and it's been an unforgettable rollercoaster and one that I'm sure will end spectaculy, but he doesn't need the World Title, and the World Title doesn't really need him. Jericho is more than a worthy champion, the guy is literally running himself into the ground with that thing. He went through hell with Michaels in the unsanctioned match, claimed the title later that night... Had a match the very next night on RAW with Batista then went through a cage match with CM Punk. It wouldn't suprise me if Jericho was legitimately hurting right now, probably the reason for lack of high spots in the cage.

If I was WWE and hell if I was Shawn Michaels I'd give Jericho the nod. Again, Michaels doesn't need one last day in the sun whereas Jericho is cementing himself as perhaps the companys top heel along with Orton and Edge.
 
This match, like all there others should be quite spectacular. This fued has been magnificent, and regardless of people complaining it's been going on for too long, I think this long fued is done so well that it doens't matter.

I'm not sure if the fued ends here, but I wouldn't mind if it kept going to be honest. They have proceeded it to the next level, inclduing the title (as I assumed they would do eventually) and made it so person that it is quite amazing.

I think Jericho will retain here. Micheals won the last PPV, so it makes sense for Jericho to win here so they can build a strong champion in Jericho and make it so they could end to the feud.

I would like Shawn to win, seeing as he would possibly be my favourite of all time. Not at the moment though, seeing as I have Jeff to tend to. Besides that, Jericho winning I wouldn't mind either. It really doens't matter to me here, as I like this fued too much. Although I predict a Jericho win non the less.
 
this is definitely the best match. this is probably the only match that will draw wwe paperview buys. other then hhh match who we know who is going to win. the ladder match was made famous by hbk. y2j has had his fair share of ladder matches though. y2j should retain here and drop the belt to batista at survivor series.this fed has been great but like edge and taker it gets old fast after so many matches. what more can these two do they have had regular matches, unsancted crap match, and now ladders. this shoud end here as it would be the best match to finish with. you cant really top this. how many more gimmick matches is wwe going to have. they have had one at every paper view in the last few months. they should have saved this for survivor series. big screw up on wwe part. no mercy is not big to have a match of this calibar. i love the feud but where do you go after this there is not to many more matches that top ladders.
 
With this being said, Jericho has a need to prove that he is better than Shawn Michaels. And Shawn is the king of ladder matches. He was in the first match, and has had good ones since then. Whether you think he is the king of them or not, many people do, and it's something Shawn often refers to. For Jericho to beat Shawn in his own match would be a huge boost for Jericho, and a win over HBK at the beginning of his reign would stop doubters almost.

He already is better.

Shawn Michaels is far from being the king of ladder matches. Shawn Michaels may have made the ladder match, but he is by no means the king.

A win in a ladder match against the self proclaimed king of the ladder match for Jericho would be a huge victory. This would add something extra for Jericho to gloat about and would further increase his huge ego.

I don't see Shawn Michaels winning, would be a good moment, but it just won't happen. Vince would be stupid to have Jericho lose the title at the next PPV after just winning it, especially in this feud they have to have something for Shawn Michaels to go after.
 
I hope that Michaels wins the title, or Jericho retains it through Cade.
Then Michaels can get a rematch, along with Batista.

And then at Cyber Sunday or Survivor Series it is:

Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels vs Batista with some sort of stipulation. (They teased a triple threat for Backlash, and I personally want to see who the better man of the three really is.)

I'd pick Batista to win that one, finishing the feud all three men started back in April. Then they all start planting seeds for their respective WrestleMania matches. (Batista/Orton. Michaels/Undertaker. Jericho/Mysterio or Cena?)

What do you guys think?
 
This match should be the main draw to the PPV. HBK and the man formerly known as Y2J both can draw and a gimmick match that is in both their strong points makes me interested.

Now, as for what will happen...

I don't see an HBK win. HBK winning wouldn't be a bad thing, but it would take away all the faces that want Jericho's head on a platter because of his 'stolen' victory.

Jericho will likely win, but I don't see a clean win. A clean win for Jericho would mean that Michaels would have only beaten him in a match that "never happened". An unclean win is devalued, and thus wouldn't hurt the feud's status. I see Cade interfering to lead to a Y2J win. HBK then can have a match with Cade leaving Jericho to feud with Batista for a month or two. HBK then can resume his feud with Jericho after Jericho either drops the belt or has beaten someone else in other title defenses.

Either way, this feud should continue for a few more months at the least. Not because I want it to, but becuase it would only make sense. No one would just let it go after another man hit his wife and tried to end his career. We all know Shawn's character to have a huge ego, so why would he just give up after 1 'unsactioned' victory and a loss in his signature match.

I see a loss for HBK followed by a revenge tour on Cade then back to Jericho.
 
This should be the main event, but I reckon Triple H will get that spot. Anyway, this promises to be a good match. These two work extremely well with each other and they are both experts in ladder matches, I can't wait to see what goes on. I don't see HBK winning the title this early though. It will be a highly competitive match, but I reckon Jericho will win with some dirty tactics and interference by Lance Cade. At Cyber Sunday, it will be a choice between gimmick matches, and then Shawn will finally say "You and me, one on one, straight wrestling match. DQ or countout you lose the title."
 
I think this match should and will be the main event of the night. I'm expecting a ladder match that will be remembered for many years to come. Shawn Michaels and Chris Jericho have proven they can put on a very good match without a gimmick, but just imagine how great it will be in a ladder match (which are almost always good nowadays). I thought the Unsanctioned match at Unforgiven would end the feud as I thought it was fitting. I was originally against this match but after hearing that it was a ladder match, I completely changed my mind.

Ladder matches are one of my personal favourites and ladder matches for the World Title hardly ever happen (TLC is a different type of match by my book). Throw in two of the best superstars to compete in ladder matches, and you have a match of the year candidate. This has been one of the best feuds of the year and this is the best possible way to end it. The result is a little predictable seeing as Jericho won the title only 3 weeks ago. But I think almost everyone is pumped for this match. No Mercy is worth ordering for this match alone.

But anyway this should be a very good 28 minute ladder match that sees Lance Cade intervening to cost Shawn Michaels the World Heavyweight Championship. I think it's best to have Chris Jericho retain here as I hope this title reign is a lengthy and memorable one, just like Randy Orton's. Since they ended CM Punk's title reign when it was starting to become decent, they might as well have Jericho as a strong and dominant champion as the guy deserves it. Jericho is also consistant both in the ring and on the mic. I love the new heel Jericho character as he isn't the cocky smartass he was back in 2005, but he is the smart and tactical heel that makes you want to boo him out of the arena.

HBK is HBK. The guy is still putting on great matches at an older age. I think he does deserve one more title reign, but not just yet. Hopefully Michaels wins the title next year sometime. Just like Jericho, Michaels is very consistant both in and out of the ring. So I'm expecting nothing less than the match of the night here that will possibly be the best gimmick match of 2008.
 
This is an interesting set up, because we also the same night have a much bally-hooed "Number 1 contender's match", which means that whoever wins this ladder match will have a new feud. However, I really cannot imagine the jericho/hbk feud ending after the ladder match, regardless of who wins.

So my guess as to what is going to happen is that either michaels or jericho, for storyline purposes, is going to be "beaten so badly" that they'll knock the other out of competition for a while. And with the whole setup here, what seems most likely is that jericho will beat michaels. Maybe some sort of leg injury with the ladder, maybe throwing him off the top of a ladder through a table, whatever. Probably some cheating involved too to get to that point. That way michaels can go off the stage for a while to sell his injuries, jericho can face batista, and then michaels can make his triumphant surprise return down the road.
 

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