No matter what you people are just going to eat it up

[Starchild]

Come on man, when is the last time you watched TNA? Hall and the Nasty Boys were given a chance, it didn't work and they've been gone for months... TNA has and does push the nostalgia a little too much, but they are trying to cater to the old school fans that WWE has been ignoring...

When's the last time you really watched WWE? How can you even say they aren't pushing the young guys. I don't remember ever seeing the young guys pushed me. The whole NXT concept proves that they're trying to get young guys exposure, in groups at a time now instead of just a single guy or a tag team. Sure Cena, Orton, Trips, Jericho, Edge, Taker, Kane, Show, and Rey are still around and generally in the title picture, but look at the guys who've held the titles lately..Sheamus debuted a year ago and is a 2-time WWE champ; Swagger has only been around for a couple and is a former world champ; the Miz is in the middle of a meteoric rise that he's been on since the break up with Morrison; McIntyre had a long run with the IC title; the Hart Dynasty and Usos are a couple of young teams trying to rebuild the tag division; Alberto Del Rio just debuted and beat Rey CLEAN..and by submission no less, they obviously want him to be a JBL type and while it's still early to call, I could see him being a world champ within a year, certainly within two; Evan Bourne has been getting a push lately though it's simmered down a bit; and of course the whole damn Nexus..one of the best angles to come along in any promotion in years.

And even with the EV2 thing going on, if you watch... Guys like Fortune, Morgan, Beer Money, MCMGs, Pope, and Angle have all be the main focus of the show...

EV2 is just their to put over the young guys and give some of the older guys one last run while trying to recapture some of the fans that used to love ECW...

First off, even with Fourtune, the focus of them in my mind is still Flair. He's the one using most of their promo time. Then there's the whole angle with Hogan/Jarrett vs Sting/Nash. I loved all those guys in their prime, but it's time to step aside.
And you do realize that Angle, while not the main guy like he was a year or two ago has been around and relevant just as long or even longer than most of the WWE main eventers right?
And also, sure those guys are in the title picture, but will they really win? I have absolutely no doubt that the title will be going to either Angle or Hardy next, and probably AJ shortly thereafter. It's the same thing as people complain about in WWE with the title hot potatoed between the same guys with the occasional new guy (Sheamus/RVD) winning it.

And yes, I will give WWE some credit... They have been better in the last few months than they have been in years... But, aside from Nexus, which is now trashed... There are no surprises, no nothing... I mean who didn't know from the first promo Kane cut that Kane was the one who attacked Taker??? I mean REALLY???

And how exactly are they trashed?? They kicked out the most irrelevant member and Barrett is getting a WWE title shot, which I think he might very well and probably should win. He looked right at home with all those guys he was in the ring with last night. The rest are all actually getting alot better. I've been impressed by Slater and Sheffield recently, and it's a shame he was injured as he was starting to really become a force.

The Miz is one of the only entertaining parts of RAW because even if his promos are scripted, he delivers them with passion and even though he is a heel, you want to like the guy... I'm surprised that they let him have a long back and forth match with Cena... Which was pretty good until the BS finish... So, I'll give them credit for trying to get Miz over...

How was it a BS finish? They let Miz have a solid match with THE GUY in the WWE and not get dominated like he was a year ago. Shows how far he's come along. And instead of him losing clean, he actually wins albeit by DQ and the angle that's been going for months with Bryan is furthered. Speaking of which, there's another guy that is getting a huge push upon his return. He's a legend in the indys and commonly referred to as one of the best in the world. He'll probably win the U.S. title from Miz at NoC.

I forgot to address the Tag team situation... How has WWE been trying to get Tag teams over??? Archer and Hawkins must be on Superstars because they are hardly ever on Smackdown anymore... The Uso's just jobbed to Koslov and Santino...Really??? The Hart Dynasty hasn't defended the titles in forever and will probably be the next team to job to Koslov and Santino... WWE would rather push comedy than wrestlers... Watch TNA if you want to see good Tag team matches... Period...

WWE's tag division was horrendous for years, but since Miz/Morrison is has been getting better. Jerishow and ShowMiz brought some prestige back to the titles and the Hart Dynasty is a talented young team. That being said, I do agree here that the Usos probably should have won the titles by now and Santino/Koslov should get nowhere near them. I cannot deny that TNA's tag division is better than WWE with guys like the Guns and Beer Money. But I also have seen improvement in WWE as well and the gap isn't so extreme.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

You're entitled to your opinion man, but the reason people defend WWE is because its the best option for wrestling on a national scale, its way better than TNA is that's for sure.

Now they could learn a thing or 2 from the independents (like ROH, TNA just tries to be the WWE in the late 90's but fails on every level). One of the things I feel they could learn is to make wrestling more simple. For example I'm the champ, the guy over there is the #1 contender, lets put them in a feud for a few months and have the feud revolve around the world title, its that simple, not everything has to be so complex. I feel wrestling as a whole would benefit greatly by taking a step back and making things more simple. I'm not saying make things like they were in the 80's, but its a good base blueprint to go off of, and use those guidelines to give the fans something original.

One thing I definitely DON'T agree with you on though man is when you said the WWE doesn't even try, from what I've seen over the last few years it looks to me like they are trying. Are you telling me they aren't trying to build new story lines (Nexus) or superstars (Swagger, Nexus again, Kofi, Dolph). A few years ago I may have agreed, but lately the WWE seems to be trying very hard to keep things fresh and try new things.

Do I think WWE can improve GREATLY? Yes, of course they can, but at least WWE can make storylines and matches that make sense, TNA is just a giant clusterfuck right now, their whole programming doesn't make sense, and I've been watching TNA since it started so I think I'm in a good place to critique their product. ROH on the other hand is very good and I wish that promotion all the best, its just unfortunate that they aren't seen on a larger scale because they have something really solid to build on.

ROH is probably my favorite promotion at the moment, but the reason I defend WWE (especially over TNA) is because it is simply better and it grabs my interest, TNA doesn't even know what year it is because they are all over the place. TNA tries, but they try to be something they're not, and thats their biggest problem.

 

[nightmare]

ive been a fan for 20 years & have seen it all. i love all promotions bc they each bring different aspects. but some people forget....

wwe is the standard. they dont have to work hard to be at the top, theyr already there. does it mean they can be lazy? or book terrible? no. but they have a great formula that tna can learn from. make fueds last more than 3 weeks. the matches can get repetetive in wwe but the end result is a ppv fight that means more to the fued. wwe has pulled back on the 'action' that tna\roh has, but they have longevity to produce. tna seems rushed. tna\roh have the tag team division that makes sense & is exciting, wwe has a jumbled division where the champs are locked on raw with matches few & far between. tna has the knock outs that kick ass, wwe has 2 or 3 wrestlers & a shitload of barbies who can barely dropkick.

in the end wwe weathered the attitude era & re-invented themselves while building new stars. old school fans like the feel of tna\roh bc of the action & young talent,but dislike the erratic stories russo produces & the terrible use of older guys.

every promotion has its ups and downs, but in the end it shouldnt matter who likes who. its about what you like. i love the tna& roh roster\ but hate the stories. i miss the attitude era of wwe, but am coming around to them again b\c they took the time to establish a whole new set of talent. in the end its who makes you tune in every week. tna\roh have a long way to go, but vince has the road paved.

nobody should blindly like anything without being aware of the flaws. good or bad, like\ dislike, having an opinion dosent give you authority to hate others for theirs. if your a die hard wwe guy, you might actually like some tna action & vice versa. they all are doing some things right& some things wrong. wrestling would be boring if it was perfect. the iwc would still be arguing sides if the companies were switched. if wwe dropped the pg rating & tna started booking better, people would still find flaws.

enjoy the sport. cheer your favs. dont bash others for having a different opinion.

 

[Miss Flawless]

So making another thread about this seemed most logical to you?

Like some guy said, if you grew up with something, it attaches to you. I'm attached to WWE. I will watch it no matter what. I also watch whatever entertains me. WWE entertains me. You know why? Cause I try to stay positive all the time. WWE is not perfect, it's far from perfect, so is ROH and TNA. If you want sex, blood, and stupid weapons then go watch TNA.

You know what? I was actually watching TNA once, and there were a few things that I wanted to point out; the only match that entertained me was Beer Money vs Machine Guns. When I watched WWE, Miz vs Cena, Edge vs R-Truth and surprisingly Orton vs Ted Dibiase vs JoMo were all pretty good matches that did entertain me. Also, once Ric Flair was talking about how this industry (TNA) is a little something called pro WRESTLING. Not pro use-weapons-and-kill-each-other. So if pro wrestling isn't entertaining to you, you should just watch a fighting show. Like that show about those midgets who hit each other with garbage cans and all that.

The only problem I have with smarks who think WWE is a shit product, is that they always tell the IWC it. Like, they should make their own forum or something. I'm sick of this. I don't even want to see another PG vs AE or PG sucks or WWE has crap booking thread again.

 

[Suneeboy]

In all actuality I agree with the OP. Although he professed a bit more disgust than he should have, which would have avoided the sarcasm and the flaming, I think his sentiments are exactly in line with mine.

My opinion is all in reference to RAW. The WWE has put on a lackluster performance for the year, sans the start of the Nexus invasion, and up until SummerSlam. I’ve been watching, because there is nothing else on television on Monday’s at 9pm. I’m not particularly glued to my chair, but let’s just say the show is on in my house. If I have to go to the bathroom, I’m going, and if I left something in my car, I’m running outside to get it. If I have to go to the store, I’m going and not wondering what’s happening on television. There’s no difference insofar as interest goes for me from your standard Diva’s match, to a main event of The Miz vs. Randy Orton.

In all fairness I’m doing the same with TNA as well. I am not a TNA guy (nor am I a WWE guy). I’m Switzerland – neutral. I just want to watch a good television show after a hard day’s work…and I prefer that be wrestling since I think it is one of the greatest forms of athletic theater and entertainment on the planet.

The problem is, is that I am not surprised. Even surprises don’t surprise me. Other than the Nexus angle leading into SummerSlam nothing has surprised me on the longest running weekly episodic television show. There were times where my wife and I would watch, and we would look at each other and say, “Wow that was an awful show – we need something else to watch on Mondays”, then I would come and look to see what wrestling fans thought of it, and I would see rave reviews on a show, that I thought was just awful.

The ratings are strong, but they appear to be the same people watching from week to week. I love wrestling, but honestly, when the Event starts coming on NBC on Mondays in the Fall and when Football starts up, the WWE is going to take a big back seat unless they can put on some great television. I feel that some fans don’t care what the hell comes on or what the WWE puts out, they will always watch and always try to find the positive in it and enjoy it.

Not to go into a RAW review, but the 8/23 show was very stale. Edge vs. Truth, Jericho vs. Khali, Orton vs. Morrison vs. Dibiase, Melina vs. Jillian? There was absolutely no reason to watch. Plus, why would Sheamus need to scout his opponents, when he’s been in the ring with all of them already and knows how all of them wrestle? Then the matches consist of the same spots that they all do, and the sequence is very predictable. I’m just waiting for the finish so that the show can move on to the next segment. No one is believable any more besides a handful of people, and that forces me to tune out.

Good Thread.

 

[Xan Evans]

First Thread so yeah...

But like a few of the people here have stated I am a WWE'r possibly for life, I've been watching it for over 20 years and I'll probably continue to watch it well until my older ages. Personally I think fans of other promotions such as TNA, DG & ROH (more over TNA fans) place alot of emphasis on converting the WWE fans over to their promotions which I understand but to me there is a difference between switching over to those promotions to see a great match such as Angle/Styles or MCMG/Beer Money and truly becoming a fan of those feds. I would rather switch over to TNA to see a match like that and continue to just enjoy WWE programming then to become a true fan of TNA and have to put up with all the other crap they put on.

As far as the WWE taking tips from ROH, I think the WWE don't listen to their audience simply because the audience most of the time doesn't know what it wants, most of us here in this website are divided between how long championships reigns should last, some want the old, long championship reigns and others want new champions every other 2 months and don't like those long reigns. So I honestly think they just stopped trying to listen to what everybody wants especially the IWC and produce what they think is new and surprising material and sometimes it's a hit and other times it's a bust but thats the nature of a business, especially one that has 4 different shows in one week and has been around for as long as the WWE.

 

[Heartachetonight926]

Excuse me, but since when is entertaiment more important than wrestling. That statement is absolute nonsense. "WWE is better because they have entertainment first". Do you also watch porn for the acting? Jesus Christ...

Uhhh......When did I say WWE was BETTER because it was entertainment? quit putting words in my mouth. I said it's silly to compare ROH and WWE because they are 2 completely different style of companies, I wasn't trying to say WWE was "Better"

Here's some advice, before you go on Big 5 paragraph rants, why don't you actually read what you are responding too, instead of just skimming through it and looking for part;s to pick apart.

 

[Nicole13Edge/HardyFan]

I've watched the WWE ever since my daddy got me into it when I was eight. I love the WWE and no matter what happens in the WWE or what they put on or who they fire I'm still going to watch it. Just like someone else said if you grew up watching and loving a product like the WWE you are going to defend it no matter what.

As for TNA, ROH and FCW I've watched TNA, but I really perfer WWE. I've never seen ROH or FCW due to the simple facts that my dad never watches it and I don't know what channel it is on. The WWE is great now it could improve but it is still great right now.

 

[Slyfox696]

Sad but true.

No matter how much crap WWE puts on, you people are going to be behind it. I havent been a part of the IWC for a long time, mostly cause i thought it was dumb. But after reading your posts, i just had to say something.

Thank God you decided to say something. Lord knows no one else around here ever has anything negative to say about the WWE. Thank you, our Knight in Shining Armor, thank you. I have seen the light.

Most of you here trash TNA, dont take ROH, DG and other promotions seriously

Yeah, because they usually suck, what the fuck is your point? I like TNA, but ROH is fucking awful, and "DG and other promotions"...when they give me something to care about, perhaps I will.

In the meantime, I'll stick to my high quality programming, thanks.

but you praise and shit yourselves about the almighty WWE when they are the ones who dont even fucking try. They give you the same shit, week after week; and you eat it up, making threads about the what ifs and matches we have seen since 2008.

They don't try? Do you have any idea how stupid that makes you sounds?

If they didn't try, they wouldn't be in business. They do four shows a week of television, with a PPV one Sunday a month. They put on three or four house shows a week as well. They have to entertain you for 6 hours a week on TV, and 2 and a half each night on a house show.

And you think they're not trying? How dumb are you?

I just read a couple of posts about how wwe doesnt shoot cause its not booked by russo... well when the E did it was cool, and holy shit, that was so real omfg i gotta watch this.

Yes, and it created the vacuum of wrestling fans in the male 18-35 demographic the WWE has been trying for the last 5 years to fill.

The Attitude Era was awful, and the harmful effects of it are still being felt today. The ONLY reason the Attitude Era was successful was because Austin and the Rock were so damn entertaining.

As far as "shoots" go...seriously, what the fuck? Professional wrestling is supposed to be ENTIRELY "shoot". If you have "shoot" style programming, then you're acknowledging the rest of your programming is fake, and if you acknowledge your wrestling is fake, why would anyone watch it?

This whole "shoot" stuff is absurd, and any moron who wants pro wrestling to "shoot" more often has an IQ of under 50.

Yes Russo goes to far, and hes incompetent at his job, but the fuckers at wwe arent any better, as a matter of fact, theyre worse because theyre not even trying! they dont care, they know youre gonna watch it and for some reason mark out about it.

So...what you're saying is that what the writers and bookers do works so well fans get excited about it, but they're not trying?

Again, I must question your intelligence.

Some people go as far as to say, "oh well good, wrestling is back to where its superposed to be" .. Whats that supposed to mean?? so we're not supposed to progress? or feel insulted at the fact that were being fed kids programming?

I love the idiots who call pro wrestling "kids programming". Because when I think "kids programming", I think scantily clad oily men groping and punching each other, threatening to hurt one another. I think of half-naked women going around sexually harassing men. I think of ambushes where 7 guys beat down 1, to the point where the 1 man is completely unconscious.

That's what I think of when I think of kids programming. It's certainly not about learning things, or promoting good feelings and values...no it's about scantily clad oily men groping each other.

How fucking awful is your taste in wrestling and television?

Im not TNA guy, Im a pro wrestling fan, i watch what i find entertaining.

As do the 5 million people who watch the WWE each week.

But hey, you're obviously smarter than they are. Right?

Therefore Im insulted by wwe's product.

I'm insulted by your intelligence, or rather, your lack thereof.

I'm also a fan and have been a fan for a while, i was a wcw fan but when wwf started to get better, i swtiched, i gave them my money (which linda is using for her campaign) why? because like i said i like wrestling and i like whats entertaining. WWE isnt entertaining at all, its a little insulting to watch it, and the problem starts with people like you, because no matter what crap they give you, youre gonna watch it; main reason why they feel like they shouldnt even do their jobs properly.

Wow...there is so much idiocy in this post I don't even know where to begin.

1) Linda can't use WWE money for her campaign, since the WWE is publicly traded and not a private company any more.

2) I was a wrestling fan before WCW was born.

3) Your idea of entertaining is obviously different than the majority of the wrestling audience, which is good because your taste sucks.

4) The WWE makes millions upon millions of dollars each year, so they are obviously doing their job properly.

Thats exactly what i think, it seems like people are afraid of watching something else, cant beat them, join them right?

I am afraid of watching something else. I watched an ROH PPV card one time and nearly had to stick needles in my eye to get the pain out.

ROH is awful. And it's still the best Indy promotion out there, which says a lot for the quality of Indy promotions.

thats bullshit, have some fucking brains and watch something thats interesting, not the same crap over and over again.

I have plenty of brains, and I prefer to watch something that's entertaining, as opposed to something that isn't.

New for the sake of new, doesn't mean it's more entertaining.

They had a great opportunity with nexus and look... cena beat the last two in less than 5 minutes.... wow way to establish young talent...

Yes, because the two months of beatdowns the "young talent" put on every major name on the Raw roster did nothing to establish that "young talent". No no, the ONLY thing that matters is that at the end of a match, a match Cena got his ass kicked by that "young talent", he beat two guys in less than 5 minutes. Two months and 20 minutes of a match didn't mean anything, but the last 5 minutes was the only thing that mattered.

How do you manage to walk and breathe at the same time?

I listened to kiddy music when i was 5... i dont listen to it cause guess what...i grew up, and when i was a teen i thought this company did the same, highly mistaken

I still watch The Lion King, does that mean I haven't grown up? Or does it just simply mean The Lion King is a damn fine movie, which is incredibly entertaining?

You're confusing target audience with quality. You don't have to be 5 to appreciate a great song or movie, and you can still appreciate GOOD pro wrestling the WWE puts on, no matter how old you are.

 

[Blade]

For some reason, people go after tna here, i said i was a wrestling fan, tna roh, pwg, dg.

Yup, I'm a wrestling fan too. But the thing is, I'm an intelligent wrestling fan, I understand that WWE has a lot of good points too and does some things better than all the other promotions. But you're not willing to admit that.

and when i talked about crap, i was referring to everything, you say they dont focus on washed up stars?

They're not washed up if they're still draws.

didnt taker just come back? to end kanes first legitimate title reign?

You can tell the future? Damn, the first rule of debating is to not have one with someone who can tell the future.

in a similar fashion as when he buried cm punk and destroyed whatever momentum he had a year ago, did he get it back? doesnt seem like it as the SES loses every match and they just lost serena.

Yup, cause CM Punk was being a smartass when Taker tried to talk to him about something serious. SES does lose a lot of matches. That's what heels do. But CM Punk never looks that bad.
And yes, the loss of Serena. She was a huge part of the SES, with her 1 match during the whole time she was in the group.

oh and lets not forget Triple H is coming back sometime soon... prepare yourself for the career burial, and then you once again have taker as world champion and triple h as wwe champion (both over 40)

Yep, Trips is a bit of a dick. But it's still not as bad as Ric Flair beating Jay Lethal.

Excuse me, but since when is entertaiment more important than wrestling. That statement is absolute nonsense. "WWE is better because they have entertainment first". Do you also watch porn for the acting? Jesus Christ...

Wait, wait, wait, hold on... Let me get this straight.
You would be happy if you were watching a very boring wrestling match as long as it's wrestling? Ok.

 

[alistahr]

I figured theyd be people who disagree, and go as far as to say im not intelligent? lol

Most of you defending WWE, are agreeing with me, "i watch because its the standard"

yeah thats pathetic

some say "i watch because i like high quality productions"
uhh, good writing, good storylines, are part of a production, not just pretty lights, big venues and good marketing.

oh and slyfox...
Linda paid for her campaign with her own money... she was an actual employee of wwe, where do you think that money came from?

 

[Miss Flawless]

I figured theyd be people who disagree, and go as far as to say im not intelligent?

We don't know if you're intelligent or not. I say, use your 'intelligence' for positivity, or don't start hating at all, because, you're never gonna win against all of us. We're WWE followers. Don't try to change it by boring us with your WWE hate.

Most of you defending WWE, are agreeing with me, "i watch because its the standard"

No, I watch it because ROH sucks balls, and TNA isn't all that good. It's just a ******ed version of the Attitude Era, wait, is it offensive to be comparing the two?

yeah thats pathetic

Too bad nobody cares what you think...

some say "i watch because i like high quality productions"
uhh, good writing, good storylines, are part of a production, not just pretty lights, big venues and good marketing.

WWE has good writing and good story lines, their bookings sometimes are gay, but I don't complain too much, since WWE is not targeted at me right now. You know, WWE isn't all about the kids, they do have some matches that entertain the adults, for example; Cena vs Miz this past Monday, or were you not watching because WWE is 'shit'?

EDIT:

Linda paid for her campaign with her own money... she was an actual employee of wwe, where do you think that money came from?

That's more stupid then the grown man in his 40's who asked me how to spell B-O-B.
Nice try.

 

[Davi323]

Alistahr, you need to learn a very basic lesson about how jobs work. Yes, Linda was an employee of the WWE. She got paid by the WWE for doing her job. That is what happens when you have a job. However, and this is a key point, so you may want to pay attention, once the money leaves the WWE's bank account and enters Linda's, IT IS NO LONGER THE WWE'S MONEY! IT IS LINDA MCMAHON'S!

Linda did her job, and got paid to do that job. That is it. The WWE compensated her for performing her job, that is all. If you want to argue that its the WWE's money that is funding Linda's campaign because the money came from the WWE before they paid her to do her job, then you sir, are an idiot. If you are going to argue that, then I would counter by pointing out that before it was the WWE's money, it was my money, it was Sly's money, it was the money of everyone who has ever purchased a ticket to a WWE show, ordered a WWE PPV, or bought WWE merchandise or toys. But then, that money itself came from whatever job myself and everyone else worked at so they could get paid, in order to have the money to spend on the WWE, so that the WWE could pay Linda McMahon for doing her job, so that she had campaign funds. I could go on about how the company got the money that paid the worker that paid for the WWE stuff that paid Linda, but, rational thinking people will get the point (well, maybe you still won't). If you are going to claim that Linda is using WWE money because the WWE paid her, then you aren't going far enough back along the paper trail.

Oh, and I can hear your pathetic counter now: what about the money she gets for being a WWE stockholder??? Same thing. If Linda McMahon owns WWE stock, and I am sure she does, that stock is a a tradeable commodity. It too ceases to be the property of the WWE as soon as it is purchased by ANYONE.

 

[Kaneanite]

TNA seems way too lame to me. It's just a bunch of power hungry old guys screaming at eachother. I mean I LOVE Kurt Angle so I won't mention him. But Hogan, Nash, Hall, Jarrett, Flair, Mick Foley, and LMAO ECW? LOL. Let the young guys rumble. So much wasted potential on that god forsaken company. Mr. Anderson, Pope, AJ Styles, etc. Even seasoned vets like RVD, Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle. I can never get into it and with those names I SHOULD be able to get into it.

I just got done reading an article on wrestlezone about how the morale of the show is at an all time low. You know why? Cuz it sucks! Who wants to see a bunch of terrible wrestlers (ECW) get beaten up. OMG HES BLEEDING! The bloods fake relax does fake blood really make it better than the WWE? Ok so I guess the Vampire Chronicles is better than WWE too and i dont even know what the hell that is.

"Look at me I'm watching something else and saying the old thing sucks! I'm unique! Acknowledge me!"

Bitch please. The WWE is fantastic.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Okay, before I start I'm going to state that I am a TNA mark - sorry if that offends - I was a WCW mark until they 'died' too.

Having said that, I do love WWe too. During the Monday Night (or in Britain's case - Thursday Night) Wars - ad breaks were Raw breaks and I'd catch the replay.


Had this question been asked a year ago, I might even have had some sympathy with the poster but at the moment in WWe:

Sheamus and Kane are deserving World Champs, hardly predictable.

Tripper & Undi have been missing for an extended period, HBK has retired and Jeff Hardy's jumped to TNA and the WZ hasn't gone mad about it because WWe creative have covered this with *gasp* good storylines.

The Miz is busy on FOUR ongoing fronts at the moment... 1. MITB case 2. Alex Riley mentor 3. US Champion 4. Daniel Bryan feud - I don't ever remember this happening before.

The Nexus - you have put down this storyline on a couple of occasions but please, Fortune attacking EV2.0 and then the four legends (as an asides - shame on y'all taking potshots at these guys, they ain't hogging the limelight... can't a 30 somethin like meself get the odd mark moment; having said that if it came down to legends or knockouts - I still have my memories, use their 6 figure sums on the girls wages)... oops sorry, lost my train of thought there... oh yeah - Fortune are just a more credible Nexus.

In my humble opinion both TNA and WWe have raised their games recently and I applaud them and look forward to their programming each week.

 

[Slyfox696]

I figured theyd be people who disagree, and go as far as to say im not intelligent? lol

I don't say you're not intelligent because I disagree with you, I say you're not intelligent because your posting incredibly stupid things on the board.

Most of you defending WWE, are agreeing with me, "i watch because its the standard"

yeah thats pathetic

Not me. I watch it because it's the best thing going. It has the best workers, the best storylines, the best production values, and it's the most entertaining.

some say "i watch because i like high quality productions"
uhh, good writing, good storylines, are part of a production, not just pretty lights, big venues and good marketing.

EXACTLY! Now you're getting it. Now you see why we like the WWE.

oh and slyfox...
Linda paid for her campaign with her own money... she was an actual employee of wwe, where do you think that money came from?

So people who work at a job are never allowed to spend the money they want? How fucking stupid is that? You didn't pay Linda McMahon, you paid the WWE. The WWE paid its employees and shareholders, to which Linda McMahon is a part.

Your money was spent on the WWE. The WWE paid it's employees. The WWE didn't give YOUR money to the Linda, it gave the WWE'S money to Linda.

Your argument is completely illogical, so don't even try to make it seem like your paying for Linda's campaign because you're not.

Alistahr, you need to learn a very basic lesson about how jobs work. Yes, Linda was an employee of the WWE. She got paid by the WWE for doing her job. That is what happens when you have a job. However, and this is a key point, so you may want to pay attention, once the money leaves the WWE's bank account and enters Linda's, IT IS NO LONGER THE WWE'S MONEY! IT IS LINDA MCMAHON'S!

Linda did her job, and got paid to do that job. That is it. The WWE compensated her for performing her job, that is all. If you want to argue that its the WWE's money that is funding Linda's campaign because the money came from the WWE before they paid her to do her job, then you sir, are an idiot. If you are going to argue that, then I would counter by pointing out that before it was the WWE's money, it was my money, it was Sly's money, it was the money of everyone who has ever purchased a ticket to a WWE show, ordered a WWE PPV, or bought WWE merchandise or toys. But then, that money itself came from whatever job myself and everyone else worked at so they could get paid, in order to have the money to spend on the WWE, so that the WWE could pay Linda McMahon for doing her job, so that she had campaign funds. I could go on about how the company got the money that paid the worker that paid for the WWE stuff that paid Linda, but, rational thinking people will get the point (well, maybe you still won't). If you are going to claim that Linda is using WWE money because the WWE paid her, then you aren't going far enough back along the paper trail.

Oh, and I can hear your pathetic counter now: what about the money she gets for being a WWE stockholder??? Same thing. If Linda McMahon owns WWE stock, and I am sure she does, that stock is a a tradeable commodity. It too ceases to be the property of the WWE as soon as it is purchased by ANYONE.

Now if only I had read the entire thread before posting. This is exactly the same thing I was saying, only with a lot more detail. Well done, sir.

 

[Arkham Noir]

Some of you are so naive about life.I once made a comparison to wrestling and the music industry, now that I've grown up , let me revisit this because I was very short sighted back than.

Everyone who wants to see "wrestling", shoudln't watching professional wrestling to begin with.Sports entertainment is a much more accurate description of the buisness. I'm going to say this quite simply because some don't seem to see it. IT IS ENTERTAINMENT. One of the earleir posters said they want to see wrestling opposed to entertainment. That's an oxymoron you douche.Do you also sit there with the official rule book of wrestling and judge performance levels with stars at the end of every match? Get a hobby.

I think the bottom line is that those that complain have way to much time on their hands. Go watch porn or something. Those that "eat this shit up" are simply watching a television programme. That's what WWE is. a show on T.V.. If you really want to take it to that level of depth, get off your ass and go join the buisness. Although that would require you to take action opposed to whining.

Anyways, to my music reference, WWE is akin to making it big in the music industry and making money, while the independant shows that focus on "wrestling matches" are the band playing in the basment of their parents house their entire lives, broke as fuck.

But at least they aren't selling out!!!!!!!!

 

[MayorMcCheese]

WWe has no new ideas.

The way they've handled Nexus is proof, the whole team WWE vs team Nexus thing never ever made any sense in how they booked it, then the strong "team" loses to super cena. Yawn.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

oh and slyfox...
Linda paid for her campaign with her own money... she was an actual employee of wwe, where do you think that money came from?

Do you even know what would happen if she used the money that comes from WWE??
She'd be floored by the opposition not too mention thrown out of the senate race.
She has to RAISE her campaign money.
Sure her friends in high places because of the WWE will help, but she can't use WWE's money.

As far as your assertion with WWE wrestling goes, in the words of Jericho :

I think it's been a stroke of genius. I think it's something that has got people talking and of course there are critics in everything and it's your job to do that. I think the fact you took seven guys that no one had heard prior to February of this year and made them into the main event of SummerSlam with a viable, interesting, money making match I don't think that's ever been done in the history of the business. It worked, it's worked better than anything we've done in awhile and I'm very excited to be a part of it, originally I wasn't supposed to be a part of it and was supposed to be involved with someone else but that didn't work so we started working on this. It's great because you're taking lighting in a bottle and more importantly now you have this cool dichotomy with this Cena team or Jericho team whatever you want to call it and Nexus is a well oiled pack of wolves and then you have a bunch of ego maniacs fighting it out to see who will be the leader of a team. It really is a great story with a lot of levels and that's the best things we do in the WWE is have very involved and layered stories and this is one of those real cool ones that's been going in for months and I don't know if SummerSlam will be the culmination.

WWE has put up one of the best storylines and one of the greatest swerves (Bryan's return) and still makes 23 year olds like myself mark-out like its 1998.

Let's not start with TNA at the moment. There is a lack of cohesion, that if sorted can give very compelling TV, but till then....

Listen I don't watch ROH, I can't buy the PPV but from the little I have seen, it is one great spot after another with incredible flow and I dig it, HOWEVER, there is a storyline aspect that is very essential to the pro wrestling product.
And if ROH does that properly, then Godspeed to them I hope they take over from TNA as No.2.

And I do, categorically, disagree with SlyFox over the fact that The Rock and Austin where the only reasons for The Attitude Era's success. The Kane- Taker feud was huge, the scantly clad women were a major hit, THEY WERE, what do you want me to say!! D-generation X Under Shawn was very entertaining to watch with their skits. ( I know you can play the Kliq card here and say how they butt-raped the other talent) but can anyone disagree that their skits were gold?

 

[red ass skull muhfukkah]

First of all good sir, you need to learn how to type and use capitol letters. The shift button is there for a reason.

Secondly let me say that I watch any wrestling product that I can because I truly love wrestling and everything that goes with it. I watch ROH on HDnet weekly, I watch Chikara's Pod Cast A-Go-Go every time its posted, I always watch Impact! (not as much recently as I work on Thursdays now) and I follow many Japanese promotions as well. But I watch WWE over everything else because I truly believe it is the best product out there.

Ring of Honor puts on great matches, but most of the time it seems like they just do random spot after random spot and it can get a bit boring. The feuds and matches lack structure and meaning. Take the "Best Match of The Year": Tyler Black vs Davey Richards. It was a really good match. It had big spots, it was back and forth, and it kept me at the edge of my seat the whole way through. But the build up to it was very poor as was the feud overall. I understand Richards is shit on the mic but all he can say is "The Hunt is on", seriously? Someone said how can you prefer entertainment over wrestling as a wrestling fan. But you need entertainment to keep the fans entertained, for the lack of a better term. It's ok to have a feud be just over a Title and nothing else, but it gets boring when it's done every time. Well just look at this feud. The match was phenomenal but it wasn't as intense as it could have been. We should have seen Richards attacking Black week after week or something similar to make it seem like Richards would do anything to get his prey and the title. Because the feud wasn't entertaining the match lacked reason and intensity.

Compare this to the WWE's "Best Match of the Year": Taker vs HBK. Once again phenomenal match, back and forth and kept me at the edge of my seat. But what made it truly great was the build up. Undertaker refusing to wrestle him because he defeated him last year. Michaels losing the Rumble and the EC, Michaels doing everything he could to make Undertaker fight him. And then the Career vs the Streak stipulation. The build up and entertaining story is what made this match even better. And this is what separates WWE from everyone else. ROH's best match doesn't compare to WWE's because it lacks structure and entertainment.

Onto the Nexus, which the OP and someone else referred to as "Trashed". How is it trashed if they are still a credible threat, Barrett is fighting for the Title, and week after week you still don't know what they are going to do? But no it's trashed because Cena beat two guys after getting DDT'd. You would be right except there's the little facts that Nexus still looked dominant throughout the whole match despite being rookies, Bryan was brought back and destroyed (and added a whole new element), and it put 8 new faces in the spotlight. So what if they lost, this makes them seem like they are vulnerable and can actually be stopped instead of being "Super Nexus" kicking the shit out of everyone they see.

As for TNA. For every MCMG vs Beer Money match there's a Ric Flair vs Jay Lethal match, for every Styles vs Angle there's a Dreamer vs Abyss match. TNA has the ability to be great but fucks it up week after week because they lack structure and focus. It is a cluster fuck pure and simple. WWE is a well polished Lambourghini while TNA is a used 92 Geo Metro, good for somethings but mostly it's a piece of shit.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

To the OP:

Don’t try and be the cool guy that hates WWE because they’re the main company which is exactly what you’re doing. If you were to look at the facts and discuss the products out there with other experienced fans you would see how much better WWE is than any other promotion. Yes, having a shit load of money helps them but they earned that money by being the best company. There are so many reasons why WWE is better than the other companies and I really don’t think I need to go into too many so I’ll give you a few based on the last few months of television.

Firstly WWE books their show with direction unlike TNA for instance. TNA is changing their direction every 3 months. They have no idea where any storyline is going and if they do then they need to let the audience know because more than half the crap that’s going on in TNA makes no sense to the viewer. WWE puts thought into its storylines and builds on them, they also look into the future of where the story is going instead of making it up on the go.

Secondly WWE builds its young stars. They have introduced a heel stable full of guys fresh out of development, that hasn’t happened before and has helped put over most of those guys. They have built Sheamus up to be a believable main eventer in just a year. They have guys like Jericho who is happy to put over talent like Bourne. They’re building superstars, not allowing a bunch of over the hill wrestlers control their company’s direction.

Thirdly WWE creates a buzz around their storylines. They make people want to tune in to find out what’s going to happen. TNA does the opposite, Dixie sites there and tweets 3 times a week about another huge surprise that will change TNA forever and then we get Tommy Dreamer or a backwards booked program, the product stinks. TNA has no idea how to promote their show or PPV’s. Having PPV matches on TV, booking matches that would have been decent 10 years ago and completely burying or firing the talent that made them TNA in the first place.

Look, if you prefer TNA and other promotions over WWE then that’s fine but don’t come in here and try to debate the fact that WWE doesn’t try or do their job right. They do their job right much more than TNA or ROH etc and they certainly succeed. You said it yourself:

some say "i watch because i like high quality productions"
uhh, good writing, good storylines, are part of a production, not just pretty lights, big venues and good marketing.

Well, I like WWE because it’s production and marketing is far better than TNA and ROH etc because it’s writing and storylines exceed theirs and yes, the pretty lights, big venues and crowds do add to the viewing experience. Don’t get me wrong though; I think TNA and ROH have their positives but in looking at the whole picture of each company to say WWE is shit compared to them is asinine and stupid.

Also,

Linda paid for her campaign with her own money... she was an actual employee of wwe, where do you think that money came from?

That’s the stupidest fucking thing you’ve said. Sly and Davi323 have already explained how dumb that statement is so I’ll leave it be....

 

[mrbooker]

Its very simple and I think some people are not true fans when they want to jump the gun to stand up for WWE whenever someone bashes them.

People remeber what its like to be amped for EVERY MONDAY... if you are 20+ and have actually been watching every monday for the past 15 years you know what im talking about, whether it was WCW or WWF every monday your were excited because you had no clue what was going to happen by the end of the night. Alor of people remember that and wish for that feeling and rightfully so.

Whether you are a huge WWE mark are not, WWE is simply not captivating, and people who claim loyalty are absolutley right i got my younger brother into wrestling and he loves WWE mainly due to Randy Orton, kind of how i was like with HBK, then Attitude ere set in and everything was easy to cheer for. As long ass WWE has the biggest stars that kids can grow up on they will be number one.

Attitude area was WWF last stand to survive and it worked if you are over 20 you will remember all those damn news cast, 60 minutes, documenatries, etc.... about the whole wwe austin sticking his middle fingers up, HHH crotch chopping and young kids mimmicking, how its a bad example. WWE doest have to take those chances, but it doesnt mean they cant put on a good show, honestly WWE doesnt have wrestlers writing storylines that is FACTUAL and thats where the problem starts.

Until TNA takes it show on the road, or tries being territorial kind of how WCW was, or they will never reach that next level, all these young kids dont bother watching TNA because they have no clue who is their, or what the story line is. And as many die hards as there are out their for wrestling trust ALOT of fans are made after watching a live show. Thats not saying the will be #1 but it will help bring them to the next level, and help generate new fans. I honestly felt that if rick flair was in WWE and created the 4 horseman on raw people would be flipping, and going ape shyt talking about it, but since its TNA no one cares its all about gaining fans first, WWE has generations of fans so its not going to matter

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Every single week without fail I watch Monday Night Raw, TNA Impact, Friday Night Smackdown, and Ring of Honor. I watch every PPV, no matter what the brand or promotion. Sometimes, if I have free time I'll try to figure out what's going on with NXT, or look at some FCW or independent promotions. But it's been a long time since I've missed WWE, TNA, or ROH. I've been watching WWE programming for 11 years. I've been watching TNA since Kurt Angle crossed the line. And I'll be honest when I say I've really only been watching ROH for the last few months, so not everything makes sense to met yet, and things very rarely get me excited about it, outside of the great in-ring competition.

Here's the thing... WWE has become much more kid oriented. We all agree. But fans of the wrestling industry as a whole won't quit on a product just because portions of it are below our intellectual level. And you're right, there's a large member of the IWC who have no idea what they're talking about. Even I don't claim to really know what's going on all the time. Granted I'm usually pretty reserved about my opinions, which is very odd for a member of the IWC. But that's how life is. You have a few people who really have a grasp of things, a lot of people who have great intentions but just don't fully get it, and the people who just whine about what THEY want and reject everything that doesn't fit their criteria. I started enjoying WWE a lot more when I realize that maybe I'm not the primary demographic anymore. Do you really think that the WWE, one of the most successful business in the last few generations, would still be pushing the PG product if it wasn't bringing them cash? WWE is formulaic, and a lot of times I can't stand what goes on...but they've got business down. They know what they're doing for the betterment of the company. I can't blame them for doing what's best for business, even if it's what I don't particularly enjoy.

But just because I continue to watch WWE programming, does not mean I'm bending over and kissing Vince's ass every week. There are certain things I can't stand about how the WWE does things, and I'm public about them. That's what makes me a member of the IWC. If there wasn't anything wrong with the product, I'd have nothing to whine about...

WWE, TNA, and ROH all have plenty of things wrong with them. WWE panders to children and that means simplified matches, PG promos, and merch shoved in my face. Not to mention guest hosts...even though they're generally only recognized by the older audiences, but I digress... TNA has no idea how to book, and Dixie fluctuates on creative direction month after month. They seem to think that bringing in more and more "exciting" wrestlers will increase their ratings and draw more people. Well...I don't care about ratings. I'm already watching. What are you going to do for me? Although the method does work, because it was Kurt Angle who brought me over. ROH has great matches, and it's cool to see the up-and-comers before they get their chance in the "big leagues". But it's almost like they have no soul. Their guys have no idea how to cut promos, and there's nobody to teach them. ROH is just not sports entertainment, and that's good and bad for a lot of different reasons.

Now, I know there's a lot of people in the IWC that are dumb and annoying. But that's all part of it. That's how life works. But I really don't see people bending over and taking whatever Vince is dishing out. It might seem like that because there are still good ratings for the WWE, and there are still people in the IWC who love everything about the WWE...but I assure you, the vast majority of us (a large group you already claimed you're not a part of, and you clearly don't get) are just fans. Which is more than I can say for you, it appears.

 

[Slyfox696]

Its very simple and I think some people are not true fans when they want to jump the gun to stand up for WWE whenever someone bashes them.

I think I'm very much a fan of the WWE.

People remeber what its like to be amped for EVERY MONDAY

Of course I do, I get that way EVERY MONDAY.

Then again, I only watch Raw, so unlike the majority of the IWC, I don't get burned out on the WWE and wrestling in general.

... if you are 20+ and have actually been watching every monday for the past 15 years you know what im talking about, whether it was WCW or WWF every monday your were excited because you had no clue what was going to happen by the end of the night.

Still don't.

Alor of people remember that and wish for that feeling and rightfully so.

So how is it one of the smartest people on the board can still feel that way every Monday night, but some of the dumbest people I've ever had the displeasure of talking with can't? Maybe the problem isn't with the WWE, but rather with the people who bitch?

Maybe if more people took my approach, quit reading dirtsheets and rumors, quit reading spoilers, and quit watching 2345235 hours of wrestling each week, they would be far more interested and excited when wrestling came on? I watch Raw, and Raw only, with the occasional viewing of Impact after Burn Notice is over, but not always. The only show I watch religiously is Raw, and every Saturday and Sunday, I'm ready to watch Raw again.

If people quit burning themselves out and quit spoiling themselves, I bet they'd enjoy wrestling a whole lot more.

Whether you are a huge WWE mark are not, WWE is simply not captivating,

To you. To me, it most certainly is.

Attitude area was WWF last stand to survive and it worked if you are over 20 you will remember all those damn news cast, 60 minutes, documenatries, etc.... about the whole wwe austin sticking his middle fingers up, HHH crotch chopping and young kids mimmicking, how its a bad example.

But look at all the things you just said, and how many of them have ANYTHING to do with wrestling?

The answer is none of it, NONE of it had anything to do with wrestling. It had to do with shocking audiences, pushing the envelope and preying upon the lowest common denominator. NONE of it had anything to do with wrestling. And when that stuff quit being shocking, when it was no longer cutting edge, and when people were tired of being attracted by their base emotions, they moved on to the next shiny thing.

And what the WWE was left with was NO audience. They didn't have an older audience, because they all went to watch MMA, and they didn't have a younger audience, because parents wouldn't let their children watch. So the WWE has had to basically manufacture a new audience, and they're still working on it.

The Attitude Era was definitely a last stand, and it worked, but it caused SO many problems since.

WWE doest have to take those chances, but it doesnt mean they cant put on a good show, honestly WWE doesnt have wrestlers writing storylines that is FACTUAL and thats where the problem starts.

Wrestlers writing wrestling shows makes for good storylines? How absurd. You have legitimate writers writing for television, and you think they're the problem? That's just asinine.

You can blame the oversaturation of the wrestling market for a lack of interest, you can blame the death of kayfabe for a lack of interest, you can blame a totally unrealistic in-ring style for a lack of interest, or you can blame the type of wrestler the business currently attracts for a lack of interest, but you can't blame professional writers whose careers have been spent creating television.

That's just silly.

I honestly felt that if rick flair was in WWE and created the 4 horseman on raw people would be flipping, and going ape shyt talking about it, but since its TNA no one cares its all about gaining fans first, WWE has generations of fans so its not going to matter

Ric Flair created the 4 Horsemen in WCW, and no one gave a shit. The 4 Horsemen is an idea that needs to stay buried in the past.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Has nothing to do with blind WWE loyalty. I mean, I watch TN-Ma'fucking-A, for fucks sake. Some people just love wrestling, and arent as pretensious as you. I love the San Fransico 49ers, if they are shit, I still love them. I just love wrestling, and ill watch it if its on. Now obviously, if it becomes a total caricature of itself, ala WCW 2000s, then its hardly pro wrestling anymore.

Regardless, it has nothing to do with blind loyalty to one company or another.