My personal thoughts on: WWE

[Dave]

This thread will be another long one, believe me. In this thread I am going to try and give you my honest thought on the WWE, since it seems to be the “in” thing to do. I have been reading other people’s thought when they post them and I agree with some of the points raised and I disagree with some other ones. The great thing about wrestling, the sport that we all love, is that so much debate can be had from it. On forums like this one, we all like to voice our opinion and we get to see possible ways on how the product can be better, do more interesting things, help more young talent etc. This thread will, hopefully, give you an insight into my way of thinking and will hopefully let you know what I think of the overall product and ways in which I would change it, making it better or not. I also want to talk about the current state of the product and where I see it going in the not to distant future. Another thing I would like to talk about is the young talent that is currently in the WWE. From John Morrison to Jack Swagger. All of whom, have a huge future in the company in my opinion, but we will get on with that later on. Right now, this thread is to be used for you to examine some of the ideas I have for the future and for you to raise some of my points for discussion.

The way I want to set this thread out is quite simple to understand really. Those sections will be: “The Past”, “The Present” and “The Future”. All of the sections listed will be used to tell you about different aspects of the WWE model and from differing periods of time and hopefully you will agree with me about some of the points.

So without further rambling, here it goes.

The Past

Let’s start at the very beginning. I hear that it is a very good place to start. I began watching wrestling at a very young age, my mum loved it and was obsessed with the Undertaker. To this day she still does. Every week she would sit us in front of the television screen in anticipation of the event. Every time the Undertaker would come on and strap people to a freaky looking sign, she would completely mark out. I was never and will never be the biggest fan of the Deadman but I suppose, I have him and my mother to thank for planting something within my brain that meant that five of six years later, I would be a wrestling fan. So, every week I watched wrestling like tradition, religion almost. I remember seeing people like Jake The Snake Roberts, The Undertaker, Bret Hart and the British Bulldog doing their thing, if very vaguely indeed. My point is, as a very young fan of wrestling, I had so many fond memories of the genuine superstars, of a generation gone by. I guess you can say that this is when my obsession with pro-wrestling began. I guess, you might also say that it is the reason that I am still watching an ever-changing WWE product.

The same is true about the ‘Attitude era’. After growing up a little bit, I began to drift away from wrestling more and more. I never got around to watching any of the shows and before too long, I had completely stopped watching and caring for the product. However, the love affair I have with wrestling was sparked again once more when I was a little bit older. I think it must have been around seven or eight when I began to watch again. To be quite honest, I never watched WWE during this period. No, I was much more of a WCW mark. I remember watching Nitro every week and thinking “Holy Shit, this is some of the best wrestling I have ever seen.” WCW was definitely the victor in the Monday Night Wars for me.

When I was finishing up in primary school, things began to change for me. I remember everyone doing the DX “suck it” motion as 10 year olds. No one had a clue what the Hell it meant but they didn’t care. For the first time, WWE was popular with the kids around me. I know that people say that most are hooked when they are young and this is especially evident for me. Since that moment, I have been hooked on WWE. The first pay-per view I ever watched was the Royal Rumble in 2000. The problem is that I have really no idea what is important when it comes to old school. I mean, I remember watching WCW when Hogan, Sting, Savage, Booker T, Nash and Jarrett. This is not really what I am talking about though. I am talking about people like the Ultimate Warrior, The British Bulldog, Jimmy Superfly Snuka, Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Vader, Andre the Giant and Roddy Piper.

Obviously I realise what all of these men have done for the WWE and wrestling in general. However, I honestly have no idea of how badass they were. I had some reason to believe that they were the people who laid the groundwork for the present stars to walk over. People like X and Latriat are people that I have so much respect for, KB being another one. I respect these guys because, they seriously know what is good about old school wrestling. I have so much interest in old school wrestling but I just cannot bring myself to find out more about it. I felt so stupid a couple of day ago. We were talking about Taker being the best big man in the WWE and X absolutely kicked my ass. I had never seen the clip of Vader popping his damn eye back in and just carrying on with the show, That’s just a fine example of what is the difference in today’s product, these guys just wanted to wrestle, they just wanted to entertain the fans who came out every week and paid their money. They weren’t wrapped up in Twitter war of words. They weren’t interested in who was fucking the boss’ daughter. They just wanted to make sure that every person who paid the fare got their money’s worth.

Kudos goes to Tentzilla, who has really educated me when it comes to Old school wrestling. I thank all of you guys.

I’m not sure if you would count the “Attitude Era” as old school but for the purpose of this thread, I will. The “Attitude Era”, as you may know, was the most profitable time in the history of the WWE. During the Monday Night Wars, the WWE seen more success than ever before and it is the reason why people complain all of the time. You know the “should The Rock come back?” threads. Or, “The PG-13 era sucks!” threads. It is my belief that these threads are only around because people are disgruntled with the product today. They want an edgier show and it is all because of the “Attitude Era”. An edgy show that never held anything back. People were the most entertained that they will ever be in terms of story lines and angles. In terms of wrestling, there was a good mix of that too. More than what there is today anyway. Anyway, some of the wrestlers that were around in the “Attitude Era” deserve a mention in this thread.

Stone Cold Steve Austin

Austin is commonly known as the face of the Attitude Era and rightfully so. I don’t really know how it came around but I can tell you that Austin will forever be known as the man who changed WWE. I would even go as far as saying that Austin has had as much impact on the direction of the WWE as Vince McMahon has. Austin was an innovator and most of all was an entertainer. His feud with Vince McMahon will go down in history as being some of the most brutal and enjoyable feuds of all time. Who will ever forget Austin driving a beer truck into the ring for example. My point is, the man was the Attitude Era. He stood for everything that the WWE were trying to push at us and he filled the roll valiantly.

The Rock

What can you say about the Rock that hasn’t been said before? Nothing is what. Along with Stone Cold, The Rock is one of the most talked about people to ever grace the squared circle. He was true performer and could keep an audience engaged and enthralled so easily. He called himself the people’s Champion and that is exactly what he was. I will always remember Wrestlemania X-8 when The Rick and Hogan met in the ring. Two icons for two very separate generations, meeting in the ring. It was like tow worlds colliding and it was the most electrifying match that I have ever had the pleasure of seeing. The Rock’s name will forever be tied to the WWE, regardless of what he goes on to accomplish in movies.

With the end of the Attitude Era, the WWE decided to go in a new direction. By buying out all of the competition after the victory of the Monday Night Wars, the WWE and namely Vince McMahon made sure that they would not need to go in that direction again. Since then, the WWE has smothered the life out of professional wrestling. They still put on a quality show but I ask you, are you even slightly entertained? By that I mean, are you as entertained with the product as you were eight years ago? I’m not. Since then, the WWE has become stale, it has become boring and repetitive but most of all, it has become uninteresting. This brings me neatly on to the next section of my thread.

The Present.

I’m certain that you see it just as much as I do, people starting threads with one purpose, to see how you would restructure the WWE. It might be a thread about who you would fire, or who you would like to see return at some point, or even who would be your champions if you were in charge. This just screams two things to me. The first thing that it says to me is that wrestling fans are disillusioned with the product that they are getting for their money. People are unhappy with the product on show and would like to change it. The second thing that all these threads say to me is that we, as wrestling fans, are never happy with what we see. Or to put it a better way, we always think that we know better. I think it would be hilarious to seen any of the noobs who post on here, get a shot at running a multi-national conglomeration, which aims to please all of the fans and continually adapt to changing fan base. All of which with the same primary objective in mind, to make money. If you have a business degree from Harvard then I’ll trust whatever you have to say on the matter. However, just because you are a fan of something, it does not mean that you automatically know what is best for the product. I am guilty of the same thing. I always think that I know better when it comes to my favourite sports team. I relentlessly question decisions that are made and always second guess the opinion of the manager. My point being, if I ever managed to get some control in said sports team, I would run that club into the ground so fast, you wouldn’t even know it existed.

The point that I am trying to make Is that although we, as the Internet Wrestling Community, have the right to say whatever we feel like in terms of pro-wrestling. Sometimes, it is better to leave it to the people that know what they are doing. The problem with this is though, that it again comes down to the two things I mentioned earlier. People are never happy about something that they care about. The WWE fans are amongst some of the most passionate people I have ever met. This site is a particular humbling reminder of that fact. The people here are never happy with the product and are always asking themselves, “How can I make this product better?”. I know that people get pissed off with hearing the same questions over and over but that’s how it works. The IWC’s greatest strength is in debate, it’s strength lies in taking a lacklustre product and making it the same product that you would love it to be. I personally don’t take part in those threads because I honestly have no idea how I would change the WWE but I do have some ideas. Those ideas obviously come with limitations. I mean, you can’t just fire John Cena, the guy is the cash cow that you would have milk. So with that in mind, my ideas come with a firm grasp on reality.

The first thing that I would do is eliminate the divas competition. No one on these forums likes it, no one. Unless I am going to go back to the Attitude Era and have the Divas walk around the ring whilst scantily-clad, then there is no reason for them to be there any more. I would have plans on making it Attitude Era by the way; they would be the first thing to go. I mean, it’s not that I wouldn’t have them around, they are good to look at but not one of them can wrestle well.

The second thing that I would do is drastically reduce the air time that the WWE receives. Superstars swould be gone and would never return. I honestly have no idea why that show even exists in the first place. No good comes of it in my opinion. With superstars already brand-exclusive, does it make any sense at all to have people intermingle every week on a show that basically no one watches? No, it doesn’t is the correct answer. All that Superstars is there to do is give more air time to the WWE and less to TNA. Fair enough but who gives a shit? Superstars would be gone right away. I would also drastically reduce the amount of PPV’s a year. In my opinion, WWE should go back to having only the big four: Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Summerslam and Survivor Series. Would anyone object to this? I don’t think so. It would allow angles to develop further and would make things just a little but less rushed in my opinion.

Apart from that, I wouldn’t really make any major changes to the product. I would have ECW keep fulfilling its role as a prestigious talent farm. I would have Smackdown and Raw remain the same also, even in terms of the rosters that both of them have. This brings me nicely on to my next point.

The roster

Many people will not agree with me but I think that the WWE has a good model for wrestler hierarchy. You have the jobbers, you have the mid-carders and you have the main event talent. The jobbers are the people that you do not want to see a lot of, the mid-card are people that you don’t mind seeing and the main event talent are the people that you want to build your company around. Right now, the WWE have pretty much got it nailed. I mean, sure, people will always want to see their favourite superstars do well and win the top championships but it’s just not viable. The main event talent is where it is at. Right now, the WWE has a few guys that they go to in all situations. They constantly fill the main event and they are the ones that the crowd will always go wild for. They are also the ones that I am going to cover just now.

John Cena

What does everyone have against this man? Seriously, he is one of the most charismatic people in the entirety of the WWE. Let’s not forget that people generally only get what they deserve. Cena, before his big push, was the most entertaining guy in the WWE, His feud with JBL was a great feud and pretty much made John Cena who he is today. Right now, he is probably the man who has the biggest future in or outside of the ring. People talk about him in the same vein as The Rock and let me tell you, there is plenty of people that would kill to even have that. He may not have the most expansive move set but who cares? I enjoy hearing from him, I enjoy listening to him on the mike and I enjoy his matches even more. I think that people don’t like him for one reason. That reason is that they are, again, unhappy with the product. John Cena is the face of the WWE in what ever shape it is in. People hate the WWE product, ergo, people hate John Cena. Shame really.

Triple H

I forever will be the biggest mark of Triple H. I honestly think that he is the most underrated wrestler in the WWE right now. For more than 10 years he has been main eventing and has been going as strong as ever. I ask you, what would the WWE be like without Triple H? Of course it would be so different but for the better!? I don’t think so. People continually slate him for his marriage to Stephanie McMahon; his love is his curse basically. I personally look past that. Like I said before, people generally don’t get something that they don’t deserve. I cannot how many legendary wrestlers I have heard say that Triple H is the greatest in ring technician in the business today. Triple H is not only one of the best wrestlers in the WWE, he is also the most influential superstar in the company. His impact on the company is without boundaries and he should receive more respect from us as a whole I think.

Edge

It is amazing to see how far this man has come from TLC matches with the Hardy’s and the Dudley’s. I think I always knew that Edge would be the one to go further than all of the men I mentioned before. The Hardy’s, although they have been quite successful as Edge, have never broken into the upper-echelon like he has. I think he is a 9 time world champion. The guy is a great superstar and deserves everything he gets. His mike skills are superb and he is one of the few men who can work as a heel or a face well.

I would also like to mention The Undertaker and Shan Michaels. I am not going to say a lot about them because right now, I feel that both of them are sort of in a partition. By that I mean that both the Undertaker and Shawn Michaels are not main event talents in the sense that they are challenging for the titles every week. No, they are in a partition because they don’t need to be. At the moment both men are securing the legacy that they have already built up. The Undertaker is still as dominant as ever and will be looking to take out the biggest names at Wrestlemania. Michaels is all about entertaining the people, which we all know he does so well.

Like it or not, the WWE is in a good position for the future. They have solid people that they can depend on to sell PPV’s and they have a good bunch of young people coming through that they will have to rely on in the future. People need to let go of the prejudices that they have towards the WWE and just accept the product.

The Future

On the forums you get a lot of thread regarding the future of the company. Where it will go, how it will do, who will be the stars. The thing is that no one really knows. I remember reading a thread about the possibility of Wrestlemania 50. I liked that thread. It got me to thinking about this one and my general thoughts in the WWE as a whole but mainly about where I see it going. It’s a question that you could continually rack your brain over and get no further forward. I think, though, that if you think logically about it, you can sort of see where the company will go. The future lies in the young talent.

Randy Orton

Obviously Orton is the man for WWE, especially for the future. As long as this ma stays fit, he will be the guy who take the WWE into a new generation after people like Triple H, Taker and Michaels are gone. Orton has been the future ever since he went against the grain and against Evolution. Vince knew as soon as Randy Orton took to the mike that he would be the biggest opportunity for them to find a new superstar. They have pushed him to the moon and he has already accomplished some of the things that people only dream of. Take Kane for example, Kane has never had the success of Randy Orton and has been in the business so much longer. He is bound for success

Jack Swagger

Jack Swagger is another man who has a huge future ahead of him. He is probably the best wrestler in the company today and as long as he remains committed, then he will undoubtedly have a the opportunity to make something of himself. I can honestly see Randy Orton vs. Jack Swagger somewhere down the line. I am of the opinion that these two guys will be the main two in say, 10 years. I don’t know but I really do see some big things on the horizon for Jack Swagger. The best thing I can say about him is that he is the finest wrestling talent since Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit.

Evan Bourne

Evan Bourne is another superstar that I sincerely hope will be around in a good few years. He is exciting and athletic. He has all the tools necessary to be line successful in the future of the WWE. I like him and I really can see him challenging for a world title down the line. Naturally, it is all about staying fit and being committed to the company. Going out into the ring and visibly giving it all that you can every night, will get you further than you could imagine.

Of course, there is more than that to the future, especially in terms of roster. John Morrison and Dolph Ziggler, along with the Miz have huge futures in the WWE. My only problem is that, with all of the people that I began watching wrestling for eventually going to hang up the boots sooner or later, will I still be around to see these people live up to the destiny that is put in front of them? Honestly, I cannot say but I don’t think so. When Triple H and Taker leaves the WWE, I think it will signal the end of my love affair with the WWE and wrestling in general.

I hope you read that right through without too many days passing. I also hope that you enjoyed my summary of the WWE product. Please feel free to comment on anything I have said or raise any points that you wish. Thank you for reading.

 

[Tenta]

...... Holy Fucking Shit! Scotsman, this is absolutely fabulous work, and my God, it's extremely detailed, and it so well structured. This is so getting you green rep very soon. I agree with most accounts of what you have said, and quite frankly, you make some astounding points, that quite frankly, I can't argue at all with any of what you have said. However, I will throw this out to you, and hope we can start a conversation regarding this. The fact is that I do disagree with one thing you have said, however, it's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. My only hope is to get you to look at it through another perspective.

My only problem is that, with all of the people that I began watching wrestling for eventually going to hang up the boots sooner or later, will I still be around to see these people live up to the destiny that is put in front of them? Honestly, I cannot say but I don’t think so. When Triple H and Taker leaves the WWE, I think it will signal the end of my love affair with the WWE and wrestling in general.

I commend your pieces on individual wrestlers, such as your Swagger and Orton pieces. But, please, if you do consider anything about your fanhood, consider that these wrestlers that you have grown up with, such as Taker and Shawn Michaels, are only a contingency of wrestlers who should be retiring soon. Wrestlers such as Cena and Trips, I'd argue, barring a serious injury, are going to be around for a good ten to perhaps fifteen years. You'd be shocked at the longevity of wrestlers, and how long they can last, in the correct shape and with a passion for the business. Hell, look at someone like Ric Flair. The man was able to last a good thirty six years in the business before putting up the boots, and we loved every single moment of it. He was able to last with many generations of wrestlers, and those that stayed with Flair happened to catch other wrestlers during this time, and became fans of those wrestlers. From Flair came a love of wrestlers such as Race, Dusty, Sting, Steamboat, and other such names that wrestling fans who loved even merely Ric Flair caught on to. From there, the connection to so many new wrestlers were formed, and those that thought their passion for the sport would die as soon as Ric retired found themselves still watching. It's only natural... Wrestling fans will catch on to the names that work with their favorites, and will begin to find themselves growing attached to that name.

Consider this... How much did you like The Miz before his feud with Cena? Now, do you find yourself watching his segments, as opposed to turning the channel whenever he is on TV. Even now, the young names that are working with established stars are getting the rub, and the more they work with those favorite stars you love so much, the more you find these characters compelling, and the more you find yourself watching these names. Now, imagine how many names you'll find yourself following if Cena and Trips do stay around for another ten years, as I've theorized. So many names to follow, and though you didn't grow up with these names, still you find yourself compelled to watch the faces on TV, and find out more about them. It's only logical to see it happen, and it's happened to so many fans already. Some said they'd never watch past The Hogan Era, and yet people still watch. It's the compelling nature of the characters, and the way you attach yourself to them. It's a common thing, and because of this, I'd be hesitant to say that you'll hang it up when the wrestlers you grew up with retire. If I were you, I'd leave some leeway room, and give the names that are working with Cenas and Triple Hs more time to become compelling characters to you. Look at Randy Orton already. And soon, it will be names like these that will be the reason you watch, instead of those names you grew up with.

Why? Because you're a wrestling fan. And it's simply what we do.

 

[mortis]

Here Here, it is time to follow new guys today, there's always a demand for yesterdays matchs. WWE knows this it's probably why they have a new show on the weekend about matchs past & old.

though i'm getting sick of cena "NOW" i liked him before his "white rapper" gimmick the prototype. I'd like to see Morrison as WHC, or MVP as WWE champ.

I'd like to see "new" guys become champs instead of HHH's 14th or 15th title run. I liked MIZ after his fued with cena, cause he talked about the back stage politics about cena being an ass kisser which might be true.


I've had an entire life of watching warrior & hogan & savage and Flair.
but it is time for new champions

 

[mister_b1LL]

In all honesty, I rarely watch wrestling for the main events. It's the midcard matches that I really care about. These matches feature who could possibly be the next generation of main eventers in the future. It's almost as if I'm growing with them.

The last real person that I followed throughout their entire wrestling career was Eddie Guerrero. I remember how exciting he was in WCW and I was shocked when he came to the WWF as part of the Radicalz. Since then he continued to be one of my favorite superstars through the years and when he won the WWE Championship, I got pretty emotional since I had been watching him grow throught the years and finally make it to the top. When he died, his death was my Michael Jackson moment in wrestling, where even though you never knew him personally, you felt sad for his death because he moved you as if you really did know him.

Before I make this reply all about Eddie. The point is, I have always enjoyed being a part of the midcarder's journey to becoming the next main eventer. I loved seeing guys like John Cena make his way towards the WWE Championship or Jeff Hardy Swanton Bombing his way through table after table just to get the crowd excited. It's because when I see these guys finally get the brass ring, it's as if I have completed the journey with them.

These days I'm following MVP, Jack Swagger, John Morrison, and Dolph Ziggler. I feel that these guys will be main eventers someday provided nothing terrible happens to them. And as long as these guys and anybody else that other people believe will be main eventers are pushed properly, when the time comes for guys like Undertaker, HBK, and Triple H to step down, the WWE will be in good hands for years to come.

 

[Dave]

...... Holy Fucking Shit! Scotsman, this is absolutely fabulous work, and my God, it's extremely detailed, and it so well structured. This is so getting you green rep very soon. I agree with most accounts of what you have said, and quite frankly, you make some astounding points, that quite frankly, I can't argue at all with any of what you have said.

Firstly, thank you very much man. It means a lot to me that someone with such a great knowledge of old school wrestling and such a fine grasp of the history of the business would enjoy this thread. In all honesty, when I was writing it, I had no idea that I would post. Honestly, it was more for me than for anyone else but he more I wrote down and the more points I raised to myself, the more I thought that they could be answered much better by people like yourself.

I commend your pieces on individual wrestlers, such as your Swagger and Orton pieces. But, please, if you do consider anything about your fanhood, consider that these wrestlers that you have grown up with, such as Taker and Shawn Michaels, are only a contingency of wrestlers who should be retiring soon. Wrestlers such as Cena and Trips, I'd argue, barring a serious injury, are going to be around for a good ten to perhaps fifteen years. You'd be shocked at the longevity of wrestlers, and how long they can last, in the correct shape and with a passion for the business. Hell, look at someone like Ric Flair. The man was able to last a good thirty six years in the business before putting up the boots, and we loved every single moment of it. He was able to last with many generations of wrestlers, and those that stayed with Flair happened to catch other wrestlers during this time, and became fans of those wrestlers. From Flair came a love of wrestlers such as Race, Dusty, Sting, Steamboat, and other such names that wrestling fans who loved even merely Ric Flair caught on to. From there, the connection to so many new wrestlers were formed, and those that thought their passion for the sport would die as soon as Ric retired found themselves still watching. It's only natural... Wrestling fans will catch on to the names that work with their favorites, and will begin to find themselves growing attached to that name. .

I agree with you to a certain extent. I mean, sure, people like Triple H and John Cena will be around for a good few years but what I am trying to say is that, I am finding it hard to be excited about the future of the WWE. Will the WWE ever have it so good? In terms o f characters, I would say no. Triple H and the Undertaker have been going for what feels like forever now and I honestly cannot see them going on as long as you can. I would love to see Triple H carry on well into the future but is it going to happen realistically? I don’t think so. Triple H is one of the guys I was addressing before, He is in the same vein as people who wrestled in the old school days. Like Vader, Triple H lives and breathes for the WWE, his passion is his undoubted strength. Just like Vader p[popping his eye back into his socket, Triple H has come back from career threatening injury after career threatening injury, all because he bleeds the colours of the WWE and more importantly, wrestling. My personal thoughts on Triple H are as follows, he is the company. Ever since I first saw him on a Sunday Night Heat, talking to Thrasher and the other one who wore a skirt, I have been a complete mark for him. I hope that he continues to entertain me but do I see him wrestling in 5 years time? No, I don’t think so. He could, however, be a general manager or something of the like. Someone like Triple H never really leaves wrestling, the can’t. Some one like Triple H runs in the same vein as Ric Flair, it’s why they were inseparable as Evolution and that’s why they are such great friends.

The point is, for a little bit of time, I have unhappy with the superstars that are getting the rub. Not Swagger, not Bourne and not Orton but people like Benjamin. What the hell are they doing with some of these people. Benjamin and MVP have been on the cusp of the main event for quite some time now and have never made anything of it. I don’t blame them, they go out there and they give it everything. Who I actually blame is the WWE. They realise that both men have talent but are unwilling to give them any sort of ring time with the big guns. Triple H vs. MVP a while ago was the closest that I have seen them come to any reasonable match between the tow. In the end, Triple H won and quite easily and I don’t think he made MVP look very good. At least no the way Orton made Swagger look good. The point is, I know that people eventually come and go. It’s like everything, even your own workplace but without these guys getting a good rub from some of the bigger guys, how will they continue to grow as performers? In my opinion, if the WWE do not start trying to elevate some of the people I have mentioned in to the main event, when people like Triple H and Taker leave, they will be left with a roster full of mid-card talent and people who will not sell the shows in the way that Triple H and Taker did. It is my opinion that when these guys leave, it will signal a change for the WWE, a change that I don’t know if it will recover from.

Consider this... How much did you like The Miz before his feud with Cena? Now, do you find yourself watching his segments, as opposed to turning the channel whenever he is on TV. Even now, the young names that are working with established stars are getting the rub, and the more they work with those favorite stars you love so much, the more you find these characters compelling, and the more you find yourself watching these names. Now, imagine how many names you'll find yourself following if Cena and Trips do stay around for another ten years, as I've theorized. So many names to follow, and though you didn't grow up with these names, still you find yourself compelled to watch the faces on TV, and find out more about them. It's only logical to see it happen, and it's happened to so many fans already. Some said they'd never watch past The Hogan Era, and yet people still watch. It's the compelling nature of the characters, and the way you attach yourself to them. It's a common thing, and because of this, I'd be hesitant to say that you'll hang it up when the wrestlers you grew up with retire. If I were you, I'd leave some leeway room, and give the names that are working with Cenas and Triple Hs more time to become compelling characters to you. Look at Randy Orton already. And soon, it will be names like these that will be the reason you watch, instead of those names you grew up with.

The problem is, Tentzilla, that I do not care much for the faces that are being produced right now. Possibly with the exception of MVP, I have no real interest in what they are doing every week. The great thing about the Hogan era and the Attitude Era is that people were genuinely interested in what was going on every week. They would tune in just to see what was happening to them. The current era is so unexciting it is unbelievable. I honestly could not care less about what is happening on Smackdown at the minute and I never, ever watch ECW. The problem is that the current era does not have the same appeal to me as the ones that happened before it. The great strength of the Attitude era was that people wanted to watch every moment of it, simply because they knew that they would be entertained thoroughly, the same cannot be said for this era. You see it as much as I do, or maybe more, people who complain about the feud between Triple H and Randy Orton. No one is ever happy with it, no matter how they twist and change it. I am different I know that this is the best that we are going to get right now, in this era anyway. The point is, in my opinion, a lot of the problems that exist in the WWE can be easily amended by making just a few changes. Vary up your angles, change things, not just who is in them but the way they develop. Having Randy Orton vs. Triple H every week is boring but I still watch it because I like Triple H. What they need to do is add a wildcard into the match. In that regard, I would say that the WWE as a whole needs a “Wildcard factor” about it now. Make it less predictable and you will entertain more fans overall.

Why? Because you're a wrestling fan. And it's simply what we do.

I hope you are right.

 

[The Roid Rage]

(claps for valiant effort given) Well done Scottsman. You got your points out there, covered a lot of ground, and spoke some truth. I like that. More than anything you didn't try to overstate your knowledge, which also points to speaking some truth. I just wanted to tell you a bit about the old school that you apparently missed and maybe reiterate on some of what you had to say.

I was born in 1985, great year in history. That put me in just the right place to see the old school of wrestling and particularly the Hogan years into what was called the New Generation of Wrestling. I honestly feel very privileged to have been around for those years, and old enough to remember them well, as well as the coming Attitude Era that was to follow.

My first memories of wrestling take me to when I was only 2 or 3 years old watching the legendary moment when Hulk Hogan met Andre the Giant at Wrestlemania 3. Biggest thing to date at that time. When I was a little kid Hulkamania was running wild, Macho Madness was on the loose, and every kid was a little Warrior. The Rockers and the Hart Foundation were the guys that most kids wanted to be, and The Undertaker once he came around was giving us all nightmares.

This was an extraordinary time to be a wrestling fan. Keep in mind also that there was no Monday Night Raw, and WCW was only seen if you were in the right place geographically, or your parents had enough money to afford cable television. Other than that you had Superstars on Saturday mornings, and your occasional Saturday Nights Main Event. Pay-Per-View was quite a treat as well as there were only the big four, and everything culminated during those few special moments a year. As a kid those guys were larger than life, almost supernatural. The lines were clearly drawn between good and evil, and you knew where you stood at all times.

Mr. Perfect, Rick Rude, The British Bulldog, Jake the Snake, Legion of Doom, Demolition, Yokozuna, The Million Dollar Man, Bret Hart, and many more all were characters that defied what you knew as reality. In a world filled with imagination, these people were a real life extension of that imagination. As a kid your world consisted of your parents, school, comic books, cartoons, bubble gum, playground games, and as I mentioned a world where your imagination could take you places you never could go in reality. Wrestling or the WWF was the place where fantasy and reality met. These guys were like superheroes and super villains. They were like comic book villains and heros brought to life, live in the flesh, every weekend.


After Hogan left things started to change noticeably. Bret Hart became the top of the food chain with Shawn Michaels to closely follow. Macho Man was on his way out as well as the Ultimate Warrior, a lot of the tag teams were gone, and it seemed that things were starting to get a little more real. One of the scariest things I remember as a kid was the Undertaker. I remember watching him demolish his opponents with a seemingly supernatural power that would not allow him to be defeated, and put them in body bags. Now that seemed real, that was scary. Now instead of Hulk Hogan always rising from the ashes of a brutal beat down and hulking up to bring justice to the bad guys which was as I said like a comic book coming to life, you had Bret Hart going out there with a technical methodical ring style. Guys were getting by on their ability rather than supernatural force. I seemed to become more about the actual wrestling. There was some silly stuff still like Doink the Clown and The Repo Man, but it seemed to become a little more serious, and a lot of the cartoon like aspect were starting fade away.

This is where you get to the New Generation. Soon you had Double J Jeff Jarrett, and Diesel and Razor Ramon coming on the scene. Psycho Sid was on the loose, Marc Mero was a big deal, Ahmed Johnson was the company powerhouse, Lex Luger was the All-American, and so on. The company had really had a big face lift. Peoples gimmicks were toned down and much like toady it was more about the person themselves, they were the character with a twist maybe. By now WCW was starting to make way and the Monday Night Wars would be not too far down the road leading into the Attitude Era. I would have to say up to this point is the old school you missed out on a bit. Mostly the stuff from 85-95. That was probably the best decade of wrestling.


Now as for the other body of work you presented I can't offer much objection to most of what you had to say. I have covered the old school segment and that moves us into the Attitude Era. Unlike you I was not much of a WCW guy. I was a WWF loyalist then and now. I was much more interested in the McMahon-Austin feud and the Shawn Michaels-Bret Hart feud as well. Degeneration-X was alright and mostly funny to me most of the time and that is probably a large part of why I liked it more. Over at WCW it was more like they were having some kind of gang war or something and I wasn't interested in that. It didn't feel like wrestling to me. I did watch WCW a bit, how couldn't you? But when the line in the sand was drawn I was definitely with the WWF all the way. I was much more entertained by the matches the Austin, Michaels, Hart, Foley, The Rock, Undertaker, and Triple H were putting on. When Bret Hart left though, that was a big deal to me, he was one of my favorites since I was a little kid and that was a tough blow to take when he was gone. Still, after than there was no big let down as far as the product went. Take Bret out of the equation and the rest of the guys were still putting on the best matches in the business hands down.

I am of a minority though who doesn't see the Attitude Era as the best time in wrestling. Sure the competition between the two companies was great, and it was awesome to watch them go at it, but the top of the card at WCW wasn't putting on top quality matches, and the WWF relied more on shock and awe than anything. I was one of those people who agreed with Bret Hart on a lot of the things he had to say about the business. I didn't like all the sexual stuff, and I didn't like the idea of people cheering for a guy who slopped beer all over himself and flipped off the crowd. I came from the generation before that who did the training, ate their vitamins, and said their prayers. The chaos of the Attitude Era seemed pointless and low class to me. I still watched it, but I didn't like a lot of it. I watched simply to see a lot of them get their come-up-ins. WCW for me offered very little. I liked Hall and Nash, and I liked Hogan and a few others. But for me it was more about their luchadors. When I first saw that I was amazed, and that was what I liked about WCW. I wasn't interested in the power struggle between the NWO and WCW. It was obvious, WCW was screwed and NWO had the run of things. Along with that, it seemed at some point just about everybody was apart of the NWO, that got old and repetitive really quick, every week WCW puts on matches, NWO comes in, beats everyone up, someone else joins, and they talk about how much they run the joint.

Unfortunately that set the tone for what people expected in the future, and when all was said and done and the WWF won the Monday Night Wars people as I said expected the same thing. One thing I think people overlook a lot if that the WWF and WCW went to the lengths they did out of necessity when they did all that stuff during the Monday Night Wars. After it was all over, no one needed to go that far again, and they didn't. This is the time where things became the most interesting to me. Once Vince bought WCW and brought their best guys over we were finally able to see what a lot of people really wanted to see during the Monday Night Wars, WCW vs WWF. Only now it was under one roof at the same time on the same channel.

I don't think things got to where we are now until around 2004. Or to be more specific, since John Cena became the champ. Since then we have been introduced to a new product with a new face. There are still some of the same ones still around for familiarity but things are by far different and I think the message is clear, the WWE is not about the same things it was during the Attitude Era. I don't think that is a bad thing necessarily, and I don't think the product is as bad as most people say. As long as everyone is still craving the Attitude Era that is what you are going to think, because now the WWE doesn't have to be raunchy, or excessively violent, or sexually explicit, or anything like that, it can be what it was before all that, Wrestling.

I do not understand why it is supposedly so boring and such a horrible product just because now it is family friendly. Is it repetitive? yes. Is is pretty predictable? yes. Are there possibly too many shows? Maybe, depends on your appetite. I personally love being able to watch wrestling all week. But is it a lack luster product? I don't think so, no. There is always room for improvement but it's not like they obviously aren't trying. I think the talent is just fine, and that the guys in there now are putting on great matches day in and day out. If you can't appreciate that, go watch some backyard stunt double wrestling, that might be violent, unpredictable, and edgy enough for you, but as is the WWE is just fine. I am not saying that some things couldn't use some change, everything does and must. But what we get today is not the abysmal failure that the strong critics would have you believe.


Looking to the future I think we have a lot to look forward to. Eventually things might heat up a bit more, and they might push the envelope a bit more, and with the influx of new talent that already exists and is on the way, I think you can guarantee improvements and above all else top notch wrestling. Keep in mind there will be a day when the people you say around too much aren't around at all, they will be replaced by guys you never heard of and will be highly critical of more so than now, and you will probably be looking back to today wishing some of them were still around.

 

[Chill]

The problem is, Tentzilla, that I do not care much for the faces that are being produced right now. Possibly with the exception of MVP, I have no real interest in what they are doing every week. The great thing about the Hogan era and the Attitude Era is that people were genuinely interested in what was going on every week. They would tune in just to see what was happening to them. The current era is so unexciting it is unbelievable. I honestly could not care less about what is happening on Smackdown at the minute and I never, ever watch ECW. The problem is that the current era does not have the same appeal to me as the ones that happened before it. The great strength of the Attitude era was that people wanted to watch every moment of it, simply because they knew that they would be entertained thoroughly, the same cannot be said for this era. You see it as much as I do, or maybe more, people who complain about the feud between Triple H and Randy Orton. No one is ever happy with it, no matter how they twist and change it. I am different I know that this is the best that we are going to get right now, in this era anyway. The point is, in my opinion, a lot of the problems that exist in the WWE can be easily amended by making just a few changes. Vary up your angles, change things, not just who is in them but the way they develop. Having Randy Orton vs. Triple H every week is boring but I still watch it because I like Triple H. What they need to do is add a wildcard into the match. In that regard, I would say that the WWE as a whole needs a “Wildcard factor” about it now. Make it less predictable and you will entertain more fans overall.

I agree with a lot of this...it sometimes seems as though people tune in today to watch the stars they watched ten years ago. As you say, when Triple H and Taker leave the WWE for good it will have a big impact on the way you view the company....perhaps you will become less enthused by it, perhaps not. I can certainly empathize with what you're saying here and sometimes I feel the same way, take for example, when Kane was off Smackdown for a few weeks I didn't watch the show but ever since he returned I haven't missed a single episode (granted that might not mean much to other people but I'm a big Kane fan). I think that is an example of what you're hinting at and it proves that you're certainly not alone....I think a lot of people feel this way. Don't get me wrong, I could have sat down and watched Smackdown quite happily during Kane's absence but with him gone I just didn't have the same enthusiam to tune into the show, perhaps that is a failing on my part but maybe it's because we are not given enough reason to care for the product as we once did.

Take another example, the one match that people were talking about which 'saved' Wrestlemania 25 was Taker v HBK. Now, like most other people I will happily admit that this match was awesome and the one which I was most anticipating that night but isn't there a problem when this match between two ageing veterans is what everyone is most looking forward to? I don't mean that in a disrespectful way at all, not for one minute but what I'm trying to highlight is that the WWE didn't have anything new or fresh to offer us that night and so they had to rely on the proven main eventers yet again....I think that exemplifies that there are not enough new stars being created to take guys like Taker and Michaels' places and yes, I do think the WWE will suffer when the 'Attitude Era' stars leave becuase they have been at the forefront of the WWE for so long now that there is bound to be a noticeable gap when they leave. How could there not be?

In saying that, I do think that WWE's future will lie in the hands of people like Randy Orton, John Cena, Jericho, Swagger and so on but I absolutely understand where you are coming from Dave. I just suppose it will take a bit of getting used to once the old faithful do retire but yes, it will be hard for the WWE to replace them...not impossible because they do have the young talent there but my God they better step up because they have a lot to live up to...

 

[TheIconHBK]

Scotsman Dave great post with a lot of thought and work

all i can say is the current product is a bit like after everyone jumped to wcw pre attitude era

the WWF was not so good then but it was building up stars Taker HBK Hall and Nash before they left, Bret Hart was left as the main guy but as the new stars started to build up the product got better paving the way for the main attitude era of Stone Cold The Rock and HHH

it will be intresting to see what path the WWE goes in when there is less of the current main event guys retire i guess only time will tell