Mr. Anderson, AJ Styles, and Samoa Joe

[TUFFY54]

Moderator's Note: I put this in the WWE section because the thread is about the perception of the WWE fans.

For almost twenty years, every wrestling fan knew what the ultimate dream match would be. It didn't matter who the wrestlers were, it came down to the WWF world champion against the NWA/WCW world champion. That was the match that people dreamed about. There was no better way to compare the companies then by imagining the top wrestler from both going head to head.

During the 80's the biggest question in wrestling was, who was better, Hogan or Flair? At the end of the decade it was Flair of Savage. The 90's brought us the questions of Bret or Sting, Vader or Undertaker, and Sting or HBK. The Monday Night Wars gave us some of the greatest debates in wrestling history. DDP or The Rock, Hogan or Austin, Steiner or Triple H, and Austin or Goldberg. These comparisons led to hours of debate with my friends.

Unfortunately, nearly two decades of dream matches came to an end when the WWF bought WCW. While we finally saw some of these matches, the magic wasn't there. Time changes everything, and most of the guys were past their prime, or not as popular, when the matches happened. The WWE ended up splitting their brand and having two world champions. The dream match was dead. Almost all of the Raw and Smackdown guys had wrestled each other many times before. As much as you wanted to pretend that they were two different companies, you knew anyone could switch brands at any time.

In 2007 we got the possibility for dream matches back. In May of 2007 Pro Wrestling Illustrated decided to recognize the TNA world heavyweight championship as a real world title. This is significant because PWI is the only impartial body in pro wrestling. Remember, every indie fed has a "world" title. PWI is the only group that determine if a companies top title is really that prestigious. After being deemed a world title by PWI, the TNA world heavyweight championship became equal with the two WWE world titles.

AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, and Mr. Anderson are the only wrestlers to hold the TNA world title who weren't former WCW or WWE world champions. Do you think of them as equals? Do you think of a match between AJ Styles and Edge the same way you used to think about a match between HBK and Sting? Does Samoa Joe vs. John Cena intrigue you? Would you look at a showdown between Mr. Anderson and Randy Orton in the same light as Austin vs. Goldberg?

My Thoughts:
Kinda. That's really the best answer I can give. While I think the wrestlers themselves would put on great matches, the distance between the two companies is too large. In the 80's the WWF was the king of wrestling, but the NWA was huge as well. Ten years later the WWF and WCW were neck and neck and splitting their audience. I think TNA is a good wrestling company, but it doesn't have the competitive feel that the WWF and WCW/NWA had for almost twenty years. I would love too see AJ Styles and Edge wrestle, but I don't think it would have that dream match feel.

 

[ActionJackson]

I would say love to see like, A.J. Styles and CM Punk put on a program. That would be a dream.
As far as answering the question of seeing them as equals, sure. The talent Samoa Joe and A.J. Styles posses is incredible. I would even put them above the two current champions in the WWE.
I would even put them in the same light of the dream matches of the past. However, we already saw Randy Orton and Anderson have a match and it was good, just not as impressive as a match I would imagine that John Morrison and Styles, or Samoa Joe and Alberto Del Rio would put on. Those are a couple of dream matches there.

 

[Henhouse]

Not really. TNA doesn't have the audience that WWE has, and Samoa Joe and AJ Styles aren't as widely known or as popular as guys like Edge or Cena.

 

[red ass skull muhfukkah]

I think most of the IWC wouldn't put them on equal levels simply because of how much more prestige and how much more popular WWE is compared to TNA. But most of us would still consider AJ vs Cena a dream match or would drool over a CM Punk vs Samoa Joe match in a WWE ring.

But it is nowhere near what Goldberg vs Austin or Taker vs Sting would have been. WCW and WWE(F) at the time were virtually equals with one company being only slightly bigger than the other. A WCW World Champion was well as well known or more well known than a WWF Champion at the time, most mainstream fans have no idea who AJ or Joe are unless they watch TNA. That alone stops me from seeing a TNA vs WWE feud in the same light as a WWE vs NWA/WCW big time feud.

A.J., Joe, and Anderson are phenomenal wrestlers and I would love to see some of the WWE vs TNA matches they would put on. They may even put on better matches than Goldberg vs Austin or Sting vs Taker, but I just couldn't see them in the same light as each other.

 

[Notorious KJE]

AJ Styles and Samoa Joe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anyone in WWE

Ringwork wise, the only guy in WWE that comes close to those guys is Bryan Danielson. I'd love to see Joe crush his good friend Cena, and AJ would wrestle circles around Randy Orton.

Anderson is good but not great. I like him a lot but I'd put guys like CM Punk and Edge over Anderson, but nobody in WWE is as good as Samoa Joe or AJ Styles IMO.

 

[CaptainZaltan]

Personally, I view A.J Styles and Anderson as being on the same level as any WWE or WCW champion that you can name, and Samoa Joe as being on the same level with a lesser WWE champion (maybe a Jack Swagger). In a very real sense, there are different 'tiers' even when considering world champions within a company. The problem, however, is that the WWE likely wouldn't consider any tier from TNA as being on the same level as their own talent, simply due to their lack of exposure to the majority of their audience.

Back during the Monday Night Wars, wrestling fans had no idea how a dream match would actually play out. We didn't know quite as much about backstage politics, and weren't as privy to how a world champion from another company would be treated upon entering into another federation. Nowadays, we can say with a fair degree of confidence that in most situations, the incoming champion would be treated and booked as inferior to the homegrown talent, and likely wouldn't enter the title picture at all until they've 'paid their dues' in the new company. Sure, there have been some exceptions; Ric Flair and Goldberg to name two. But unless we are talking about such exceptions (absolute top-tier talent from an actual competitor with the WWE), than generally incoming world champions will be placed in the mid card until they can dig their way out of it; such has been the case with Chris Benoit, RVD, Rhino, Justin Credible, Booker T, Scott Steiner, Sabu, Raven, Lex Luger, and many others that I'm forgetting.

The problem of course is the perception of it all; if the top guy from another company can beat the top guy from your own company, it suggests that the other company has tougher competitors. That necessitates rebranding the incoming talent before they can carry your title, and by the time that happens the 'big match' mystique is usually lost. Knowing that it would be basically be impossible to get unbiased booking for a dream-match scenario sort of ruins the premise for me.

 

[CarlSinclair]

I admit AJ is good but Joe is not. He is a overweight overhyped samoan bascially.

I saw his stuff in RoH and TNA from the beginning and I just don't get it.

I think its totally ridiculous to even put him in the same bracket as a world champion like Sting, Hogan, Savage, Rock , Austin, Taker, HBK etc.

He is more in the tier of champions like Jack Swagger or Rey Mysterio.

 

[NotoriousMEAT]

Well I've watched and loved TNA for a long time. And lots of times, preferred it over WWE (until the Immortal storyline began). I've always seen AJ Styles as a legit superstar. I don't care how big the crowd is, what the size of his paycheck is. He could walk into the WWE today, win the WWE title, and I'd have no gripe. Especially considering who the champion is now. Samoa Joe is a little different. Oh I think he has all the abilities to be a superstar in the WWE or any level that chooses, but for WWE.. I think it'd require a little bit of build. Wouldn't be able to walk in and just take the belt like AJ could. And that's not me dogging Joe, cuz he is by far my favorite TNA wrestles and one of my idol's. We all knew Mr. Anderson had potential in WWE, and just as much, if not more so in TNA. But him finally being World Champion doesn't feel as right as I imagined it would. Maybe it's because it came out of no where, or because he's still carrying around that crappy ass Hardy belt.. but I don't think he's anywhere close to maximizing on his full potential and popularity in TNA.

With all that said, for me, watching any of them as TNA World Heavyweight Champion, take on the WWE or World Champion would in fact be a dream match. Yeah, we've seen Anderson vs Orton before. But after all the rumors of what caused Anderson's release from WWE, and if Orton was involved.. I think the IWC would eat up a meeting between the two of them. Or even Anderson in the ring as TNA World Champ, verbally sparring with Cena as the WWE Champion. I would also love to see Cena have to face AJ, as the faces of both companies clash. AJ vs Edge is the definition of a dream match for me. As is Joe vs Punk! Oh gah the amount of money I'd pay to see them go at it on a big WWE stage.

To the people who hate on TNA, or take their small venue's and what not as their stars aren't as good or talented as WWE stars.. then yeah they'd probably not see it that way. But for any wrestling fan who enjoys both companies, and the talents of both TNA and WWE alike.. any of the matches above, would be must see.

 

[ABMorales787]

The obvious main issue going into this is TNA's smaller fanbase. We know for a fact AJ Styles could wrestle circles around John Cena and Randy Orton. Then again, so could Daniel Bryan. And he's far more accepted at this point by mainstream audiences. So in a sense, Daniel Bryan vs John Cena may actually draw more attention than AJ Styles vs John Cena. Which is a sad sight really because it lowers the quality of quality performers. It's a sad handicap TNA needs to get over. There's also the fact that they play for different audiences to take into account. Could the Jeff Hardy of today appear on WWE TV? Hell no. Scott Steiner. The producers would be scared with their hands on the censor button.

When it was WCW vs WWF it was all possible because both companies were equal. THey catered to the same core audience and the talent between both companies was contrasting. TNA and WWE today are very different from each other, so it's hard to imagine the characters and how they would meet.

One thing that I've always thought of as a dream match though is Mr. Anderson vs Randy Orton. Based on the animosity alone, it sounds intriguing.

 

[King Patrick Star]

I’m going to say yes, I see them as “equals”. I’m intrigued to see all the WWE’s Main Eventers vs. A. J. Styles or Samoa Joe or Mr. Anderson. I think the only reason is cause I haven’t seen the TNA Grand Slam and TNA Triple Crown Champions face any WWE Superstars in the WWE, and I didn’t really get enough of Mr. Kennedy in the WWE to see his full potential (WWE World Chmapion).

 

[WWEIsLife2]

While I agree that AJ & Samoa Joe are Great Wrestlers although at the same time I think Joe is a little overrated by some I don't think a Match between them vs a John Cena or Randy Orton would draw much attention. I wouldn't put them in the same class as some of the WCW Greats like Sting,Lex Luger,Goldberg,DDP,etc.

The TNA World Title IMO does not have the same legacy as the WWE & World Heavyweight Titles. Yeah I know its only been around since June 2007 officially if you take out the NWA part of it from before. I think back then if we had gotten a WWF vs WCW Dream Match like Stone Cold vs Goldberg it would have been massive.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

If you were to look at it from a perspective of sheer numbers, not a chance. When you look at the sheer amount of people that the WWE wrestles in front of, their television ratings, the fact that they're the company that everyone knows about even if they don't like wrestling, it makes TNA look second rate and just not nearly as important or on the same level. I'm not say that's actually the way that it is but it's easy to see how that would be the perception of most people. When you say Hulk Hogan, John Cena, The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and numerous others, even people that don't like wrestling at least have a general idea who you're talking about. You simply can't do that with AJ Styles, Samoa Joe & Mr. Anderson. Well, maybe, just maybe Mr. Anderson to some degree due to exposure in the WWE.

When you look at it from a perspective of a fan, there is no right or wrong answer. Quality is all about perception and is completely subjective. When it comes to AJ Styles in terms of in-ring ability, I'd put him the equal to pretty much any former WWE or WCW Champion I can think of but not when it comes to presence, charisma mic skills or "the look" as it's referred to. Styles' strength has laid primarily in his ability in the ring and that's great, nothing wrong with that at all in my view. But if you want to be looked at by history and thought of as one of the all time greats, it takes more than that. Styles has been improving on the mic and I think that will only cause people to look at him in a brighter light. On the indy circuit, promo skills don't matter nearly as much as they do when you're a nationally televised company.

When it comes to Samoa Joe, I think the guy's kind of overrated. He can work well inside the ring, I have enjoyed watching him a lot of times but he's not as great as some make him out to be. He's good, but he's not THAT good. As far as mic work, charisma and presence, Joe is very low on the totem pole compared to most of the better and better known WCW or WWE Champions. Joe's alright on the mic, but not overly impressive, he has zero charisma and presence. I know he's supposed to be this sort of quite brooding tough guy, but I just don't see it. He strikes me as a one dimensional chubba bubba that I don't find the least bit intimidating. So no, I don't consider Samoa Joe to be all that great or memorable of a champion when compared to most of the big named WWE or WCW Champions.

As far as Mr. Anderson goes, I also think that he's a little overrated. I've never really seen anything all that great about Anderson inside the ring. He's solid, but nothing special. Anderson's bread and butter has always been his ability to work on the mic. He's a great mic worker with a lot of charisma and I'd put him just about equal to any former WWE or WCW Champion as far as that goes.

Prestige can also be somewhat subjective. If you think the TNA World Heavyweight Championship is as prestigious or more so than the WCW or WWE Championships, then that's your opinion. However, it's just not an opinion that most wrestling fans are going to agree with. Every championship history has dud champions every so often, there's no way around it. But you have to consider the sheer lineage of the WWE and WCW Championships overall. The only way that TNA can compare with that is by time. It's not gonna happen next year, it probably won't happen in 10 years, but it can happen.

 

[Notorious KJE]

I admit AJ is good but Joe is not. He is a overweight overhyped samoan bascially.

I saw his stuff in RoH and TNA from the beginning and I just don't get it.

I think its totally ridiculous to even put him in the same bracket as a world champion like Sting, Hogan, Savage, Rock , Austin, Taker, HBK etc.

He is more in the tier of champions like Jack Swagger or Rey Mysterio.

That's bullshit! Samoa Joe has put on CLASSIC matches and could do so against anybody. He's not just good he's GREAT! Just because he's big doesn't mean he can't wrestle. He's way better than Hogan or Swagger ever were and could hold his own against any of the guys you mentioned. The cage match against Kurt Angle in which he won the world title was one of the best matches ever IMO. Not to mention he completely outclassed Sting every time they faced each other.

Not your style? That's fine. But to say he's not a good wrestler is some straight up bullshit.

And to those who say he's not intimidating, I doubt y'all would last more than 3 minutes in the ring with him. He's not overrated, if anything he's UNDERRATED. You won't find a Super Heavyweight that can do the things in the ring that he can.

 

[The Eighties]

To me a dream match is as much about the superstar aura as it is the in ring work, and for that you need it to be two genuine stars who have had long periods at the top and generate huge followings, so on that criteria no match between any of the 3 mentioned and a top WWE guy would be something I'd consider a dream match.

Having said that I personally rate AJ Styles as the best in ring talent around right now, and he has been improving his character and mic work a lot over the last couple of years, I would love to see him in the WWE.

Joe has been devalued by the horrible booking in TNA, the Joe from ROH was a superb performer with presence and solid mic skills. When Joe made his way to the ring he carried the aura of a legit badass and his work in the ring made you buy into him totally, his series with CM Punk and match with Japanese legend Kenta Kobashi in particular showed Joe's capabilities of making a match feel big time even without the major arena trappings.