Moral Quandry 3: Can Women take accountability for themselves EVER?

[Mighty NorCal]

Ok so. Few years back, I had been dating this girl for about a year, and we broke up. Well, this chick who I was talking to before I met my GF took note, and contacted me a few days after, suggesting we go out for drinks. I figure alright, get my mind off things, get me out of the apartment.

So we have drinks, things go good. All I talk about was my ex, and how she is still trying to contact me, this and that. Well the bar begins to close....and SHE (take note of this) suggestes we continue festivities at her place. So I go over there, and things are cool. We are just chilling, watching Fresh prince, whatever.

Well, SHE begins to touch, ME. Ok. She, leans in, and kisses, ME. SHE puts her hands down MY pants. SHE, Suggested we go into her room. SHE puts my dick in her mouth. I say "weeee probably shouldnt go here." She continues to do her thing, finishes me off. Then, later, she iniates things AGAIN, and we end up having sex. This, all while my ex was texting me throughout the night. I didnt hide it either, the girl asked me who it was, I told her my ex. She knew.

Well, week later, me and my ex reconcile.

Oh, and of course...I am the bastard here. Date night girl runs my name through the mud ALL over town, talking about how much of a dirty dog I am, and that I just used her for a rebound / revenge fuck, and totally took advantage of her.

She intiated literally every single facet of the night. I had zero designs on getting back with my ex, it just ended up happening. Date Night KNEW me and my ex had been together a year, KNEW my ex was trying everything to get back with me, and KNEW it was less than a week after I had broke up with her.

So. Am I a bastard womanizer, and she so (and still to this day, THREE YEARS later) paints me to be, or did she make adult decisions and advances, and simply put HERSELF in the position to have what happened, happen?

Debate, WZ

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

She was just mad because you choose your ex over her. She knew all these things and wanted to show you she was better, so she sucked you off and banged you and then was pissed you still went back to your ex, as opposed to being with her. It made her feel insignificant because she did all those things on the first date and you still didn't choose her. Date Night seems to be a little on the ****ty side and that's how most of those girls think, they think that if they bang you, you will give them more attention. After you get back with your ex, Date Night goes and seeks attention elsewhere by running your name into the ground. Date night is just one of those girls you stay away from.

To answer the question she put herself into the situation and reacted badly when things didn't go the way she had planned.

I have had the same type of situation, as I'm sure most men have, when you stop giving attention to one girl in favor of another, the first girl gets jealous and starts talkin' shit about you.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Before we get into a battle of the sexes here, let's lay down some facts about women. The truth hurts, though, guys, so, if you have a madonna/****e polar perception of women, then I'd advise you not to read this.

1) Women can get laid whenever they want - Besides knowing that the child that they bear is actually theirs, this is the biggest advantage women have over men. Sometimes women just want someone to fuck, sometimes they use sex as a means to open the door to a possible relationship, sometimes it's to get some material benefit, and sometimes they just want a warm body for the night. NorCal's story is just one of many where women get what they want by simply offering sex.

Well, part 2 doesn't really pertain to this thread, but, I'm going to inform you of it anyway:

2) While meeting a woman's material and emotional needs will almost surely ensure her staying with you, nothing in the world can guarantee that she won't creep around on you - Sure, you may luck out and get a woman that will remain faithful to you, but it will have nothing to do with you; it will be for her own reasons and those alone. Ultimately, I think this possibility exists because sex can mean so many different things to women at different times. Personally, as long as your kids are actually yours and you don't have any sexually transmittable infections or diseases, I'd say your relationship is pretty good.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

So what then, TSnugs, in your opinion, was it that she wanted? If she just wanted my piece for the night, then why all the ensuing dramatics when I got back with my ex?

Also, I am taking this as you saying she was at fault, I am in fact, not a filthy bastard

 

[Cookie]

Ok so. Few years back, I had been dating this girl for about a year, and we broke up. Well, this chick who I was talking to before I met my GF took note, and contacted me a few days after, suggesting we go out for drinks. I figure alright, get my mind off things, get me out of the apartment.

Not saying you can't go out with a girl immediately after breaking up with your girlfriend, because you can and should do whatever you want... but it was probably a bad idea in this case. Seems like this girl was in pursuit of you in some way, and agreeing to go out with her probably led her down the wrong path.

So we have drinks, things go good. All I talk about was my ex, and how she is still trying to contact me, this and that. Well the bar begins to close....and SHE (take note of this) suggestes we continue festivities at her place. So I go over there, and things are cool. We are just chilling, watching Fresh prince, whatever.

Pretty harmless stuff and I'm sure to you it was nothing more than just hanging out with a friend. But it's highly possible that to her, the fact you even agreed to come back to her place, it was probably more than that. You'd think the fact that you were talking about your ex would give her reason to back off a bit but clearly this bitch wanted some.

Well, SHE begins to touch, ME. Ok. She, leans in, and kisses, ME. SHE puts her hands down MY pants. SHE, Suggested we go into her room. SHE puts my dick in her mouth. I say "weeee probably shouldnt go here." She continues to do her thing, finishes me off. Then, later, she iniates things AGAIN, and we end up having sex. This, all while my ex was texting me throughout the night. I didnt hide it either, the girl asked me who it was, I told her my ex. She knew.

Oh boy. I understand that she was being aggressive but I think this is what makes the situation a little less black and white. You could have stopped yourself from sleeping with her, it wasn't like she tied you down and forced you to do it or anything like that (i'm assuming, lol). You wanted to do it though, and you got what you wanted.


I think Date Girl is an idiot for putting herself in a situation where she propositions sex, gets it, and then expects the guy to want to be with her or whatever the hell she expected to happen. Stupid. She was probably embarrassed by her decisions and felt stupid after you ended up getting back with your ex which is why she resorted to spreading rumours and trying to make you look like the bad guy. I don't think it has as much to do with women than it does people in general who put themselves in stupid situations and try to make themselves feel better after by justifying it somehow. Girls, guys, anybody. So many people do things like Date Girl did to you and that's how they deal with things. These kinds of people never want to put the blame on themselves and resort to making themselves the victim or the innocent one in the situation.

I don't think you're a bastard womanizer and yes, she did make advances and poor decisions but in the end, you DID choose to sleep with her. Does that mean you deserve to have your reputation tarnished and have her say all this nasty shit about you? Absolutely not. In a perfect world she'd be responsible for her actions but clearly that's not going to happen if she's still not over it three years later.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

So what then, TSnugs, in your opinion, was it that she wanted? If she just wanted my piece for the night, then why all the ensuing dramatics when I got back with my ex?

Also, I am taking this as you saying she was at fault, I am in fact, not a filthy bastard

From the sound of things, no, you aren't at fault. Well, maybe you have to take a little bit of responsibility for the second go-around; I mean, you could have left her place after the first go-around (in hindsight, if she was going to smear your name, then you leaving wouldn't have made things any worse).

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I mean, what does this mean, you won't be able to have sex with her five loyal friends (she probably has another five friends that will sleep with you; why women prey after their friends' exes is another thing that I'll never understand)?

Ultimately, I think she definitely has her share of responsibility to bear, and she should have been honest enough to say that what I'm about to do to you will have consequences, so, if you don't intend on seeing me again, then fuck off.

 

[THE Madcap]

I wouldn't say so much that women have problems with accountability, more so how powerful the emotion of jealousy and the feeling of control are with women.

In your example, date night (like the nickname) saw you were vulnerable and took it upon herself to exercise some easy and free control. Now whilst I don't know the girl in question, looking at the facts of what you have posted:

- You were in contact with her before you met your GF, she may have seen you as hers.

- You were with your girlfriend for a while. And because I know you're a swell guy, her jealousy emotion was triggered. Jealousy is a very dangerous emotion in women, I can't stress that enough.

- You split with your GF and like a shot, date night was back in there, looking to regain her control of your relationship with her. This is confirmed by HER asking for the rendezvous.

- The problems, IMO began when you agreed to go back to hers. This was her chance to exercise her control and see how far she could take it.

- For every instance, she instigated everything, playing on your vulnerability and exercising her control.

- As soon as she MADE you ejaculate, it is confirmed she has the control, power of the P-U-S-S-Y my friend.

- Things worsen when you have sex.

- Sex to women, is far more of a risk and an attachment than for men. Scientifically, because men "deposit" into the woman, hormonally, they are not as inclined to get as attached as women. Also, sex is a greater investment for women as if they got prenant, it would be their lives that changed for the worse. Because of this (IMO) women assume control of sexual situations. Think if you will of the differences between men being pushy for sex and women. Which is more socially acceptable?

- To her, it is irrelevant that you were txting our ex at the time. Because in that very moment, you were investing a lot more into her stock, than your ex's.

- When you reconsiled with your ex, date night's jealousy was again triggered, but what's worse, is because she had sex with you, she has lost more than she did the 1st time.

- In order to get her back, she has tried to take out the common denominator in all this, your ex, in the only way women know how, by spreading nasty viscious rumours, not in an attempt to physically get you back (i'd like to hope you wouldn't go back to her after that), but to re-affirm the control she felt she had on you.

Not to say that women don't have problems with accountability, they do. My ex was a prime example of this. I can delve into this further if necessary, but I feel it would be prudent to give my 2c's on your situation 1st.

 

[SalvIsWin]

Ok so. Few years back, I had been dating this girl for about a year, and we broke up. Well, this chick who I was talking to before I met my GF took note, and contacted me a few days after, suggesting we go out for drinks. I figure alright, get my mind off things, get me out of the apartment.

So we have drinks, things go good. All I talk about was my ex, and how she is still trying to contact me, this and that. Well the bar begins to close....and SHE (take note of this) suggestes we continue festivities at her place. So I go over there, and things are cool. We are just chilling, watching Fresh prince, whatever.

Well, SHE begins to touch, ME. Ok. She, leans in, and kisses, ME. SHE puts her hands down MY pants. SHE, Suggested we go into her room. SHE puts my dick in her mouth. I say "weeee probably shouldnt go here." She continues to do her thing, finishes me off. Then, later, she iniates things AGAIN, and we end up having sex. This, all while my ex was texting me throughout the night. I didnt hide it either, the girl asked me who it was, I told her my ex. She knew.

Well, week later, me and my ex reconcile.

Oh, and of course...I am the bastard here. Date night girl runs my name through the mud ALL over town, talking about how much of a dirty dog I am, and that I just used her for a rebound / revenge fuck, and totally took advantage of her.

She intiated literally every single facet of the night. I had zero designs on getting back with my ex, it just ended up happening. Date Night KNEW me and my ex had been together a year, KNEW my ex was trying everything to get back with me, and KNEW it was less than a week after I had broke up with her.

So. Am I a bastard womanizer, and she so (and still to this day, THREE YEARS later) paints me to be, or did she make adult decisions and advances, and simply put HERSELF in the position to have what happened, happen?

Debate, WZ

I'm going to disagree with every one in this thread, and suggest that you're partially responsible for your current predicament. Obviously I don't know all the facts, and I have no idea how you acted during your time with this woman, but I would say that there were clear signs of what she thought your time together was versus what you thought it was.

This woman invites you out (1), invites you back to her place (2), begins to get sexual with you (3), blows you (4), has sex with you (5). At (1) I could understand how you might view her asking you out as an innocent night out, perhaps you two are even friends. However at (2) I would say it should be clear to any reasonable man that this woman is interested in you sexually, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say you still haven't clued in. At (3) it's completely clear, it could be argued you should have seen this earlier at (2) or (1), but at (3) it is most definitely clear that she is sexually interested in you.

I'm sure every one would agree with the above paragraph, and clearly by your actions would weren't against having sex with this woman, like another poster said, it's not like she tied you down and raped you. I would argue however that you should have exercised some discretion and let this woman know that you weren't looking for a relationship, and that if she was just looking for a good time, you were happy to oblige, but if she was expecting anything more, you were sorry and that you would get your jacket.

As a quasi-analogy, consider this: There is the concept of willful blindness, where you intentionally act in a way that wouldn't make you responsible to any consequences of your actions. Example: If a known drug-dealer asks me to pick up a package at a warehouse and bring it back to him, with careful instructions not to look inside, willful blindness states that any reasonable person should be able to connect the dots and realize that this might be a drug-run and it's best not to get involved. People try to say in court that they didn't know it was drugs inside, but because of willful blindness, they are found guilty.

What does that have to do with you? I would argue that at stage (2), or (3) at the most, you should have realized that she wasn't just being a shoulder to cry on, and that she sexually wanted you. It's possible that instead of just wanting you for sex, she also might have been interested in dating you, she knew you were no longer with your ex, and she more or less asked you on a date. I would say a reasonable person should have been able to conclude these possibilities and exercise the correct response, which like I said would be to let her know that you're not looking for another relationship, and are still pursuing the option of dating your ex again.

From this womans point of view I would imagine she feels that you led her on. She now most likely feels that you intentionally didn't mention the possibility of getting back with your ex, because then there was the chance you wouldn't be getting laid that night. From your point of view you can say you didn't do anything wrong, but that's where the concept of willful blindness comes in, that you should have realized and let her know that you weren't interested in her that way.

Clearly by her response she was interested in dating you, because if she just wanted to fool around she wouldn't be trashing you in public. So while her actions after the fact aren't warranted by any means, you shouldn't be surprised that she's angry and that you're facing reprucussions.

 

[antfarm612]

One, you didn't do anything wrong. Good for you.

Two, I don't even understand why this is a bad perdicament for you. She comes off as a **** who let you fuck her a couple days after you broke up with your girl. You come off as a guy who got laid two days after you broke up with your girl. I don't know if you live in a small-town in the Bible belt or something, but where I come from you're clearly the winner. Who gives a shit what everyone in the town thinks, if they think less of you for this then fuck them.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I wanted this to be something we could really argue, damn you. Girls are bitches, do we not know this yet? Anyway, no, you didn't do wrong. Okay I wouldn't have gone out with her, agreed to go to her place or had sex with her - those being the things you COULD have controlled, but that's just me. She's done the typical stupid girl thing and assumed if you sleep with a guy they'll fall in love with you and want to be with you. We really need to send the message around that this isn't true. I think really she knows you're not a bad guy, but the jealousy and how she must feel about herself after sleeping with a guy who wanted to be with someone else has led her to try and make you look as bad as she felt. The fact she's like this 3 years later is just sad.

As has been said, she knew exactly what your situation was, so it's not like she can pretend otherwise, although I'm sure she is. Sure, sleeping with her probably wasn't the best idea, but people need to realise that some times, for some people, sex is just that - sex. No real feelings, no strings attached, and if you're sleeping with someone you're not with, that's just a risk you have to take. Alternatively, she can stop sleeping with random men who obviously aren't interested in a relationship with her. But, I'm sure that won't happen.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Ok so. Few years back, I had been dating this girl for about a year, and we broke up. Well, this chick who I was talking to before I met my GF took note, and contacted me a few days after, suggesting we go out for drinks. I figure alright, get my mind off things, get me out of the apartment.

Not knowing this chick i can only suggest 3 possible answers.

-1. She always wanted you and she was jumping in on the opportunity before someone else got to it
-2. She wanted what happened later to occur so that you'd forget your ex, and she'd have you at her beckon call to do with as she willed.
-3. She's a ****.

If you'd said that this chick knew your Ex i'd have then said:

4. She's a lying bitch whose done this purely to get one over on your ex.

So we have drinks, things go good. All I talk about was my ex, and how she is still trying to contact me, this and that. Well the bar begins to close....and SHE (take note of this) suggestes we continue festivities at her place. So I go over there, and things are cool. We are just chilling, watching Fresh prince, whatever.

Chillin, maxin, acting all cool. Shootin' some b'ball upside the school. When.....

Well, SHE begins to touch, ME. Ok. She, leans in, and kisses, ME. SHE puts her hands down MY pants. SHE, Suggested we go into her room. SHE puts my dick in her mouth. I say "weeee probably shouldnt go here." She continues to do her thing, finishes me off. Then, later, she iniates things AGAIN, and we end up having sex. This, all while my ex was texting me throughout the night. I didnt hide it either, the girl asked me who it was, I told her my ex. She knew.

And here's where you made your mistake dude. No one is going to respond well to 'we probably shouldn't.... when it comes to sex, because then you'll just hear 'We shouldn't but you still want to....' or 'that just makes it sexier.' If you honestly didn't want that to progress any further than that, you needed to say 'Look, i'm not comfortable with this, stop your advances or i'm leaving. I've told you i'm in a complex emotional state at the moment, and the last thing i need is people encouraging me to do things i'm not happy with. This isn't a personal problem with you or a comment on your looks or anything like that, i simply feel that you're not respecting my situation right now, and doing this will only make things more difficult for all involved.'

That's what a cold-blooded man who can't even feel his dick would have said. Warm blooded men who can actually appreciate their genitals, tend to think about the situation at hand for roughly 5 seconds and then think 'well now i've got a semi, so what the hell?'

Oh, and of course...I am the bastard here. Date night girl runs my name through the mud ALL over town, talking about how much of a dirty dog I am, and that I just used her for a rebound / revenge fuck, and totally took advantage of her.

She intiated literally every single facet of the night. I had zero designs on getting back with my ex, it just ended up happening. Date Night KNEW me and my ex had been together a year, KNEW my ex was trying everything to get back with me, and KNEW it was less than a week after I had broke up with her.

Is this chick part of your social circle? The psycho one, not your ex? Because if not, then i have to ask why you honestly care? The woman you love knows you're not like that, and she's the one your with, so fuck everyone else. Fuck the ****, fuck your friends' opinions, fuck everyone on WZ's opinions including mine, because the only person's thoughts you should care about other than your own, is your woman's.

So. Am I a bastard womanizer, and she so (and still to this day, THREE YEARS later) paints me to be, or did she make adult decisions and advances, and simply put HERSELF in the position to have what happened, happen?

Based on what you've described, no, you're not. You're a victim of fate and your own hormones. The hormones part is obvious, fate screwed you in the sense that the girl you had sex with had to be the type of girl to run her mouth and make up slanderous lies, because she gave away the goods immediately yet is still alone, probably crying herself to sleep over the whole thing.

Men are accused of only wanting one thing, whereas women are guilty of assuming we only want one thing. It just so happens that one thing, whether you were looking for it or not, is something you're not likely to turn down when it's offered........ unless the other person makes you physically ill.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

See, this topic of discussion brings up the fact that women can be extremely complicated and there may not be one single answer as to what was going through this gal's mind. Some of my obervastions might sound like good old fashioned male chauvinism but that's certainly not what's intended.

When it comes to the so called "Battle of the Sexes", there's more than one double standard. We have the classic one in which if a man sleeps with a lot of women he's a stallion and that if a woman sleeps with a lot of men, she's a ****. NorCal, in his adventures with this gal, has happened upon another one. If she had been the one hanging out with him while mooning over her ex the entire night and had been seduced by him, then he'd be accused of taking advantage of her. The double standard is that, even though she was the seducer in this situation instead of him, she still tries to blame him because we've become a society in which it's become quite acceptable to lay the blame on men no matter the situation for some reason.

Now, if NorCal spent most of the time talking about his ex, that should have been a clue to this girl from the very beginning. It's a clear signal that this person is going through a transitional period in his life and doesn't exactly know what's going to happen as far as his relationship with his ex goes. Now, it's been my experience that most women are turned off whenever a guy can't stop talking about his ex but that didn't seem to be an issue for this girl for some odd reason. Being in a relationship that's ended and is potentially on the verge of ending forever can be stressful and is a confusing time for men just as it can be for women. I think that, as a society, we've taken political correctness and sensitivity toward women a bit too far. It's almost as if the thought of men being caught up in an emotional shitstorm in terms of a break up is something that a lot of women just don't see as possible.

It's become something of a common stereotype that women are able to control men through sex. Now, I'm certain that this is true in some cases. However, I don't think that any woman should assume that she can use sex in such a way when a guy is going through a difficult period. If this chick wanted NorCal for more than a one night hitter quitter, then maybe she should have actually talked about something instead of assuming that he'd be putty in her hands after performing a bit of mouth music on the ol' skin flute. I think the fact that he wasn't and was able to get back together with his ex, more than anything else, was a good old fashioned shot to the ego. Maybe she thought that she was so good that it was impossible for her to accept that he could wanna go back with his ex. I've known a few women like that in the past and they can be nightmares to deal with and refuse to accept any responsibility for the miscommunication.

Can women take accountability for themselves? Sure. However, just like a lot of men try and do, many of them want to pass the buck. When it all boils down to it, women can be every bit as cruel, shady and just outright unbalanced as any man.