MMA What if: Chuck Norris

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

Now I recently asked a question inside Doc's thread in the GSD about what if Chuck Norris entered into MMA in his prime? Would he do well or would he fade away into complete obscurity?

Reason I'm asking is because of all of his successes in the martial arts world and the fact that he had his own Television series Walker: Texas Ranger which showcased his abilities. In my personal opinion I think he'd do well considering he has a background in Tang Soo Do which has it's roots in every martial art. Now my question is this:

What do you guys think? Would he do well? or would he falter?

 

[Via Armbar]

What if Mike Tyson had stepped into the octagon or maybe a K-1 ring? What if Bruce Lee had tested his mettle inside a cage? You can take any martial artist or boxer in history and as what if, but what you have to remember is the sport is called mixed martial arts. Anyone that comes into the sport with only one style of combat under their belt will not fair well and there are many example to prove it.

The thing with Norris specifically is that he isn't actually trained in many forms of martial arts, and what he is trained in is a lot for show rather than substance. His main base is a form of karate I believe and outside of Machida that particular martial art has never been successful in mma. He has competed in tournaments and from what I know did well, but there is a huge difference in competing against guys with the same background as you and using your skills for mma. That would be the same scenario if somebody who is extremely talented in judo or jujitsu came into the sport with only those skills. It wouldn't end pretty.

Honestly, it would mostly depend on when he got into the sport if he ever did. If he were to have any success it would be in the sports early days when fighters were far less well rounded and there were far less wrestlers in the sport. A strong wrestling base is the best base you can have in the sport at the moment, so even if he could turn back time and be a young lion again, without take down defense he would be screwed. Of course he was a natural athlete and has many accomplishments in the world of martial arts so you never really know. He could have picked up quickly on other parts of the game and done well. With what he has now though as far as disciplines go, they are lacking in too many areas to have success in todays mma game. Like I said, too much flash and not enough substance.

 

[Davi323]

Chuck Norris used to fight professionally, long before he ever became a movie star. His Korean style karate is legitimate, he isn't a poser. In his prime, he was fighting MMA, before it was MMA. So given that, I think Chuck would have done just fine.

 

[Via Armbar]

Chuck Norris used to fight professionally, long before he ever became a movie star. His Korean style karate is legitimate, he isn't a poser. In his prime, he was fighting MMA, before it was MMA. So given that, I think Chuck would have done just fine.

Ummmmm....no. It wasn't mixed martial arts. It was one martial art. That martial art was a form of karate. His wiki page states that he practices Chun Kuk Do, which is a mixture of different forms of karate. They still all have the same origin and very similar styles. This is not multiple disciplines, it's one derived from many. Yeah it's a legitimate martial art, doesn't mean it would accomplish shit in mixed martial arts. Nobody is saying he isn't a legit martial artist, but as an extreme enthusiast of the sport he has nothing to offer to lead me to believe that he would succeed in mma.

And no he wasn't fighting mma, he was fighting people with the same style and disciplines he was using. Very different scenario.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

What if Mike Tyson had stepped into the octagon or maybe a K-1 ring? What if Bruce Lee had tested his mettle inside a cage? You can take any martial artist or boxer in history and as what if, but what you have to remember is the sport is called mixed martial arts. Anyone that comes into the sport with only one style of combat under their belt will not fair well and there are many example to prove it.

The thing with Norris specifically is that he isn't actually trained in many forms of martial arts, and what he is trained in is a lot for show rather than substance. His main base is a form of karate I believe and outside of Machida that particular martial art has never been successful in mma. He has competed in tournaments and from what I know did well, but there is a huge difference in competing against guys with the same background as you and using your skills for mma. That would be the same scenario if somebody who is extremely talented in judo or jujitsu came into the sport with only those skills. It wouldn't end pretty.

Honestly, it would mostly depend on when he got into the sport if he ever did. If he were to have any success it would be in the sports early days when fighters were far less well rounded and there were far less wrestlers in the sport. A strong wrestling base is the best base you can have in the sport at the moment, so even if he could turn back time and be a young lion again, without take down defense he would be screwed. Of course he was a natural athlete and has many accomplishments in the world of martial arts so you never really know. He could have picked up quickly on other parts of the game and done well. With what he has now though as far as disciplines go, they are lacking in too many areas to have success in todays mma game. Like I said, too much flash and not enough substance.

It's like Armbar and I have shared one brain since our online feud.

He's hit the nail on the head. I mean, even if you want to talk about Machida, who was successful with Karate, you have to remember that he has been wrestling Sumo since age 7 and also has a BJJ Black Belt under the Nogueira's. So even HE doesn't have one style. He also has that wrestling base that Armbar mentioned. That's why Machida was able to dominate against wrestlers like Tito and Rashad, they couldn't get him down because of his superior leverage (sumo) wrestling.

Even if you want to test things out in MMA with single styles. Look at Sokoudjou or as I like to call him Soko B. Ware. Black Belt in Judo....that's it. He got washed out of the UFC faster than Starnes after his fight with Quarry. One style doesn't cut it anymore.

Other than wrestlers you really need more than one style. Some wrestlers (Brock Lesnar) are good enough, big enough, strong enough, and physically gifted enough that they can impose their will upon their opponent on the ground. But wrestling, more so than all the other disciplines, frees up more possibilities. You can work a submission from the dominant position, you can work ground and pound, you can LnP. It's just an effective base.

Chuck Norris would not have faired well in MMA. Then again, his prime was probably right around the time that the UFC began, so...he probably could have done a little damage in their tournament format. He wouldn't have beaten Gracie, Shamrock, Severn, Coleman, or Taktarov.

I'll throw you a bone, though. If he would have entered UFC 3, I believe he could have beat Steve Jennum to win it all after Gracie and Shamrock pulled out.

 

[Goliath Uterus]

Like my man ITGG mentioned, Norris was pretty much in his prime during the first UFC tournaments, and maybe if he had joined then, he could have done some damage. And who's to say he wouldn't evolve with the sport? He could've started training BJJ, wrestling etc. But honestly, I don't think Norris would've done much as far as an MMA career.

What if Mike Tyson had stepped into the octagon or maybe a K-1 ring? What if Bruce Lee had tested his mettle inside a cage? You can take any martial artist or boxer in history and as what if, but what you have to remember is the sport is called mixed martial arts. Anyone that comes into the sport with only one style of combat under their belt will not fair well and there are many example to prove it.

I agree with the point you're trying to make, but disagree with the examples you use. First off, K-1 (as you probably know) is a kickboxing promotion, so I think Mike Tyson (in his prime) would have done pretty damn well in K-1. And Bruce Lee wasn't a one-dimensional martial artist, he studied Jeet Kune Do, which mixes almost every style of fighting you could think of, including wrestling, boxing, and various submission styles. I believe Lee, with some training could've possibly been a fantastic martial artist.

 

[Via Armbar]

Like my man ITGG mentioned, Norris was pretty much in his prime during the first UFC tournaments, and maybe if he had joined then, he could have done some damage. And who's to say he wouldn't evolve with the sport? He could've started training BJJ, wrestling etc. But honestly, I don't think Norris would've done much as far as an MMA career.

That timing doesn't actually matchup Angel. I do believe he was 50 years old at the time of the first UFC events and hadn't competed in some time. So I definitely wouldn't say it was his ''prime''. He could have absolutely learned more and learned new assets to apply to his game. Never said he couldn't. If we are talking of the skills he has now or has always had rather then what he could have learned, he wouldn't have done very well.

I agree with the point you're trying to make, but disagree with the examples you use. First off, K-1 (as you probably know) is a kickboxing promotion, so I think Mike Tyson (in his prime) would have done pretty damn well in K-1. And Bruce Lee wasn't a one-dimensional martial artist, he studied Jeet Kune Do, which mixes almost every style of fighting you could think of, including wrestling, boxing, and various submission styles. I believe Lee, with some training could've possibly been a fantastic martial artist.

I consider K-1 different then mma the same way I consider boxing different from mma. Boxing and K-1 don't apply many skills or disciplines, not in the same way that mma does. Could Tyson have done well in K-1, even without striking with his legs? Possibly. His greatest strength though is still one of two types of striking used in K-1. It's either punching or kicking. MMA involves wrestling and submissions and so on. There would be way more for him to worry about in mma as opposed to kickboxing. Just because he would do well in one area doesn't mean he could do well in another. Ask James Toney. As far as Lee goes, the same could be said. Could he have learned to adapt? Probably but with the skills he did have he wouldn't be able to compete very well with todays martial artists.

Almost anyone can learn multiple martial arts and adapt. If we are talking placing them in the middle of the game with the skills that they always had, I stand by my point that they wouldn't fit in well at all.

 

[Final Form Snyper.]

Chuck Norris used to fight professionally, long before he ever became a movie star. His Korean style karate is legitimate, he isn't a poser. In his prime, he was fighting MMA, before it was MMA. So given that, I think Chuck would have done just fine.

Where is the proof?

I'd lean more to calling it a Martial Art Tournaments in TSD and maybe a few street fights.

I don't think that he would have gotten anywhere in MMA, as a 1 dimensional fighter he susceptible to being exploited in his weakness.... always has happened in MMA always will. Even in the early UFC 90% of winners were ground fighters or ground controlling wrestlers. Royce, Ken, Dan, etc would have put him to the ground and punched him for a bit and sunk in a choke (or in Dan Severns case a front headlock) in today's MMA the same promotion is exploding with multi-dimensioned fighters that are good in most areas and would have a very high possibility of beating Chuck Norris regardless him being in his prime.

 

[Reddannihilation]

According to wiki, his official fighting style is Chun Kuk Do, which combines Tang Soo Do (which itself is a combination of Shotokan Karate, taekkyeon, Subak and Chinese Kung Foo), Taekwondo, BJJ, Muay Thai and Shotokan Karate. So depending on how much of each style Norris knew he could quite conceivably have beaten his fair share of MMA fighters. That being said by the time the UFC existed Norris was in his 50's, which is also around the time he founded Chun Kuk Do. For the majority of his career he was a Tang Soo Do practioner, which does have some level of ground fighting techniques.

So in all fairness could 35 year old Chuck Norris compete against today's MMA fighters or even the MMA fighters of the 90's? I think he could. I'm not sure how often he'd win or lose, but I do believe he could've accomplished a fair bit. It's really all dependent on how much he knows regarding ground technique, which unfortunately isn't something anyone's really in the position to know due to the difference in eras.

 

[Via Armbar]

According to wiki, his official fighting style is Chun Kuk Do, which combines Tang Soo Do (which itself is a combination of Shotokan Karate, taekkyeon, Subak and Chinese Kung Foo), Taekwondo, BJJ, Muay Thai and Shotokan Karate. So depending on how much of each style Norris knew he could quite conceivably have beaten his fair share of MMA fighters. That being said by the time the UFC existed Norris was in his 50's, which is also around the time he founded Chun Kuk Do. For the majority of his career he was a Tang Soo Do practioner, which does have some level of ground fighting techniques.

So in all fairness could 35 year old Chuck Norris compete against today's MMA fighters or even the MMA fighters of the 90's? I think he could. I'm not sure how often he'd win or lose, but I do believe he could've accomplished a fair bit. It's really all dependent on how much he knows regarding ground technique, which unfortunately isn't something anyone's really in the position to know due to the difference in eras.

Here's what people don't seem to understand: Just because you are trained in a certain martial art does NOT mean that you can translate it to mma. You have world class wrestlers in the UFC who are outwrestled by guys who have no real wrestling training. GSP comes to mind immediately. He has no real wrestling background and yet is the most successful fighter at utilizing wrestling in his mma game. Whereas other, more accomplished wrestlers have been completely tooled by him. Very few of the fighting styles he used would work in mma. Kung Fu is notoriously bad for mma, and Chuk Kun Do borrows from certain disciplines only; just because you are familiar with the form doesn't mean you are experienced in the styles it draws from. It is it's own style.

Like I've said previously: if he were to train in multiple facets of the mma game then I could absolutely see a natural like him having some success. If he came in with no MMA specific training then he would have little to no success. MMA is a different game then knowing some martial arts, you need to translate it.

 

[jmt225]

I am a huge fan of Karate/Kung Fu/Martial Arts films. And out of every Martial Arts film star I've seen come and go, from Michael Jai White to Sasha Mitchell to Jackie Chan to Philip Kwok.... I am convinced that Bruce Lee, the father of Mixed Martial Arts, is the only person who would have done well in this sport. And even then I'm not 100% sure.

Look, I think fighters HIGHLY underestimate the value of Karate/Kung Fu/whatever you want to call it when it comes to this sport. We've seen the success Lyoto Machida has had with it, and what people don't realize... GSP is so good at what he does because of his karate background. That's a fact.

But the thing is, in this sport, you need much more than karate, and Chuck Norris never showed any wrestling or Jiu-Jitsu ability, so there's no reason whatsoever to believe that he would have succeeded in this sport. Sure, he was a great, legit Martial Artist, but he wasn't an MMArtist. There's just such a huge difference.

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

To tell you the truth, if he went in the early days of MMA sure he'd do well because the fighters then were vastly one dimensional. In today's game he'd fail because as JMT said Norris doesn't have a wrestling/Ju Jitsu base.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

To tell you the truth, if he went in the early days of MMA sure he'd do well because the fighters then were vastly one dimensional. In today's game he'd fail because as JMT said Norris doesn't have a wrestling/Ju Jitsu base.

Yeah, but those one dimensions are the crux of any good MMA fighter today. He'd get worked. Look at the "one dimension"'s they had. The earliest champions were either expert submission artists or amazing wrestlers. I'm pretty sure those two things are utilized in today's MMA more than anything else.

GSP and Machida aren't just Karate experts. They are both AMAZING wrestlers. This allows them to use their karate. Machida is so tough to get down that you have no choice other than to engage him on the feet. GSP is the exact opposite. He's so good on the feet that he uses that to set up his wrestling and beats your ass on the ground.

I largely suspect that Machida will take more of this approach after Shogun's success against him. This is why people should fear Machida, he has the ability and skill set to become GSP after his loss to Serra.