Memorial Day

[Slyfox696]

Its so fucking simple. I don't get how people get so fucking mixed up on this. The kids whose Orphanage I just helped improve this last week (most of which, were made Orphans by Al-Queda) sure as FUCK will not grow up to want to kill innocent Americans, will they?

This is what the media doesn't show, and I think creates a biased view of what goes on over there. Are there Americans over there who have done bad things? Yes. Are there people over there who hate Americans and wish we would butt out of their lives? Yes. But are there plenty of people over there who are grateful for the aid we have given? Absolutely.

Whether or not we should be providing billions of dollars in aid overseas while our economy at home has suffered is certainly debatable. But there have been many good things done since we have been over there, and it would be wrong to not consider that.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

If it requires billions to ensure that the country is built up well enough to supress further attacks on America, is it not worth it?

 

[shattered dreams]

If it requires billions to ensure that the country is built up well enough to supress further attacks on America, is it not worth it?

Not worth it from a efficiency standpoint. 2000 lives is nothing compared to some of the problems we have that billions of dollars could make a real difference in.

As far as Afghanistan goes it isn't about resources but it isn't about their freedom either as you point out. It is about protecting ourselves. The army certainly does a lot of good things but the primary goal is never altruistic.

I don't have any problem with going after terrorism beyond the obvious that you can never truly kill an idea. I just have a hard time buying into the idea that the US is running around the world simply helping people in need. Why? Because they almost never help until they actually want something.

The US assisted Bin Laden, Hussein and a dictator that was probably worse than Castro in Cuba when it matched their goals. When it didn't these people and places were suddenly terrible. Then again I assume some of you believe we actually gave a damn about the people on the other side of the cold war and power was merely a distant secondary concern

I am under no disillusion that we in the US have benefitted mightily and will continue to from our world presence. However, I don't blame anyone from looking in from the outside and calling us bullies because we rather obviously are.

 

[jmt225]

Lithium, minerals to make cell phones, and 90% of the World's Opium supply are all in Afghanistan. Their "resources" are definitely a huge reason why we've stayed there for so long.

I'm not disagreeing that making those counties a better place to live and to ensure the bad guys don't have a country to rule over while they plan an attack on our country like 9/11 ever again also plays a huge role why we're there, but there's more to it than just that.

Like pretty much every War, a lot of factors come into play when looking at the pros and cons of entering one. And whether or not the cons outweigh the pros of us being in Afghanistan... it's all simply a matter of opinion. There truly is no right or wrong answer. Both sides of the argument will always have their fair and unfair points.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Not worth it from a efficiency standpoint. 2000 lives is nothing compared to some of the problems we have that billions of dollars could make a real difference in.

As far as Afghanistan goes it isn't about resources but it isn't about their freedom either as you point out. It is about protecting ourselves. The army certainly does a lot of good things but the primary goal is never altruistic.

I don't have any problem with going after terrorism beyond the obvious that you can never truly kill an idea. I just have a hard time buying into the idea that the US is running around the world simply helping people in need. Why? Because they almost never help until they actually want something.

The US assisted Bin Laden, Hussein and a dictator that was probably worse than Castro in Cuba when it matched their goals. When it didn't these people and places were suddenly terrible. Then again I assume some of you believe we actually gave a damn about the people on the other side of the cold war and power was merely a distant secondary concern

I am under no disillusion that we in the US have benefitted mightily and will continue to from our world presence. However, I don't blame anyone from looking in from the outside and calling us bullies because we rather obviously are.

Bullies for helping people under wholly cruel regimes? Helping people who need help?

And to your other poiints, uh, a big fucking DUH on those. People asking "well then why dont we help out third world country X" to which I respond, "no one in third world country X gained the capability and influnce to kill thousands of innocent Americans. Its not out problem until it is MADE our problem, which it has"

Like I said. Quite simple.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Lithium, minerals to make cell phones, and 90% of the World's Opium supply are all in Afghanistan. Their "resources" are definitely a huge reason why we've stayed there for so long.

Uh, or the fact that we didnt kill their leader until last spring, could be why we have been there for so long?


Although im SURE those resources just like, sprung right up on September 12, 2001

 

[jmt225]

I said it was A reason, Norcal, not THE reason. There are a bunch of reasons for us being there. If killing Bin Laden was the only one then we would be out of there by now, but we're not and we most likely won't be for quite some time. Benefiting for their resources is a reason why.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I said it was A reason, Norcal, not THE reason. There are a bunch of reasons for us being there. If killing Bin Laden was the only one then we would be out of there by now, but we're not and we most likely won't be for quite some time. Benefiting for their resources is a reason why.

Were are withdrawing. That is what i am here doing, primarily. You cant kill Bin Laden, then the next day say "weelp, we got him, goodbye"

You know how many THOUSANDS of troops are here? Tons of equipment? You dont just pack up a fucking moving van the next day and leave.

We have to ensure that the entire spider infestation is disabled, never to return, not just kill the biggest spider. Turning over security and stability to the country is an extremely delicate, slow process. We have already turned over all night ops, and the majority of leads in combat and seizure operations to them, since Bin Laden was killed, and are sending most forces in (HIIII!!) to get people, and stuff, OUT, namely from the dangerous places first.

Who the hell are YOU to say "well then we should be out of there by now"....When did you become a military general / strategist? To know how long that "should" take. It doesnt work like that. This isnt anceint history, were we kill everyone we want to kill, then simply pick up our shit and march home.

Once again....very, very simple. People let their biases get in the way of very, very simple logic.

 

[Барбоса]

Regardless of the need for a humanitarian mission, if there was not any potential for material benefit then the US would not be there at all.

The proof of that is the lack of intervention in Syria, which does not have much in the way of useful natural resources (there are of course other socio-religious and political reasons).

A tad Machiavellian perhaps but no different than any empire/state throughout history and completely sensible.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Regardless of the need for a humanitarian mission, if there was not any potential for material benefit then the US would not be there at all.

The proof of that is the lack of intervention in Syria, which does not have much in the way of useful natural resources (there are of course other socio-religious and political reasons).

A tad Machiavellian perhaps but no different than any empire/state throughout history and completely sensible.

I do not know how much I can possibly make sense of this more.

NO. ONE. IN. SYRIA. SLAMMED A PLANE INTO A BUILDING IN AMERICA.

 

[Барбоса]

No one in Iraq did either.

"But it turns out that oil is worth a lot of money"

 

[jmt225]

Who the hell are YOU to say "well then we should be out of there by now"....When did you become a military general / strategist? To know how long that "should" take. It doesnt work like that. This isnt anceint history, were we kill everyone we want to kill, then simply pick up our shit and march home.

Norcal, you're being really defensive on this and it's making you read things that aren't there. Where did I actually say we should be out of there? You obviously didn't fully read my first post where I clearly said...

Like pretty much every War, a lot of factors come into play when looking at the pros and cons of entering one. And whether or not the cons outweigh the pros of us being in Afghanistan... it's all simply a matter of opinion. There truly is no right or wrong answer. Both sides of the argument will always have their fair and unfair points.

My actual opinion on whether we should stay or leave... like in the paragraph above, I understand the arguments from both sides of the spectrum. Honestly, if we stay, I won't bitch because I do believe we're doing good things there (at the same time while also realizing that the government does indeed benefit from the Opium and various minerals in that country), but if all the troops were sent home, then I wouldn't bitch about that either since I agree with Shattered that there a lot of things at home that need fixing that could use the money we're using on this War.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

No one in Iraq did either.

"But it turns out that oil is worth a lot of money"

the argument wasnt about Iraq, though, was it?

That is a whole other can of worms...Feel free to trash it to the high heavens..

 

[shattered dreams]

http://news.yahoo.com/us-navy-hopes-stealth-ship-answers-rising-china-065329046.html