Mark Madden - IWC Biggest Mouth

[crashfellow]

I've been enjoying wrestle zone for a long time now. Whether it's wrestling news, or it's columns or the often entertaining banter of it's forums.

However over the best few months, columns have been appearing on the front page of wrestle zone. All written with the overall message that TNA Wrestling sucks. It's columnist? Mark Madden.

Now i've been watching wrestling since i first saw Hulk Hugan body slam Andre the giant. I've gone through the many phases of thing doink the clown was cool, to loving the nWo on WCW to enjoying the 'attitude era'. In more recent times i've gone back to enjoy the hardcore violence of ECW, the PG-Rated programming of WWE and the alternate (quite WCW like) TNA Wrestling. I'm going to admit. I enjoy TNA programming. I've been a WWE fan for 20+ years, but i will state i feel TNA put's on a more compelling WRESTLING product on a week to week basis. Is it perfect? no. But i like it. I say this so people don't reply i'm a closest TNA fan. I'm not in the closet. I'm a fan of TNA as well as a WWE fan.

Mark Madden, who let's face it, was one of the more forgettable commentators of WCW seemingly has taken it upon himself to use his column's to constantly diminish TNA. To attack them for all that they do, and never misses an opportunity to remind us that WWE does a better job. Of everything.

From attacking EV2 for being outdated, while loving Ric Flair for 'carrying' Mick Foley in the upcoming PPV. Saying that TNA (in so many words) is creatively and managerially bankrupt, while seemingly loving the disturbing programming WWE has served to us and it's well over there time characters (Cena's face run for instance).

His column's continue to remind us how out of touch people truly involved in the wrestling business are. They stand on their high grounds and tell us all what we want, and what we think.

In his most recent column he claims:

"Everything should be designed to lead to one thing and one thing only: DRAWING MONEY. Anybody working in wrestling who disagrees is a fool. Anybody watching wrestling who disagrees is a mark"

This is where you could not be more off base. A wrestling fan watches his company (WWE/TNA or both) for one reason, to be entertained. Not to buy merchandise, or see one pointless PPV after another. They want to be entertained, or thrilled or amazed. If you can grab the attention of the fans, you generate cash and generate ratings. If you can't, you go where WCW went.

You Mr Madden, offend me as a wrestling fan. You offend me as a internet wrestling fan. You bark hard at TNA while leaving WWE and it's guest 'stars' alone. I ask you this very simply. Do you hate TNA? or are you really hoping WWE will give you a job.

 

[DirtyJosé]

Actually, Madden has been writing for WrestleZone for quite a long time, certainly more than a few months. And until the beginning of this year he was quite harsh to WWE as well. Is it his fault that by launching an ill-conceived "war" on Raw, TNA put themselves into position to be compared to the WWE on all levels? Is it his fault that despite the PG rating, WWE typically does a better job across the board than TNA does?

Your point about money is foolish. Why else would anyone invest into a wrestling promotion? It's a career, dude. These people do this to make a living. And what he meant when he called you a mark (because yes, he meant people like you when he said that) is that to think the goal of either TNA or WWE is not solely to make money off of promoting staged competitions is stupid. If the company isn't focused on being a success financially, they will fail, simple as that.

 

[Rayne]

This is where you could not be more off base. A wrestling fan watches his company (WWE/TNA or both) for one reason, to be entertained. Not to buy merchandise, or see one pointless PPV after another. They want to be entertained, or thrilled or amazed. If you can grab the attention of the fans, you generate cash and generate ratings. If you can't, you go where WCW went.

That "whoosh" sound you just heard was his point, sailing way the hell over your head.

OF COURSE you watch wrestling to be entertained. It's entertainment, genius. But do you think people are actually going out there and saying "fuck the money, I just want to shave 30 years off of my life because it entertains people I've never met"? Professional wrestling is a business. If you are entertained, you buy the t-shirts. If you are sufficiently brought in with the hook, you buy the PPV. Professional wrestling is a cash machine; fans come in and bring money with them.

If you are offended as a wrestling fan, it's because you don't grasp the very simple concept that this industry exists for the sake of profiting off of its fans. It's always a heartbreaking moment for the marks when they realize just what's meant by the term "mark".

 

[Ferbian]

There's nothing wrong with having an open opinion about one thing, and being less harsh towards something else. Mark Madden is a person, and a knowledgeable guy as well, so he should be able to talk about his opinions if that is what he wants.

We really have little right to demand that he bashes WWE, if he doesn't want to bash WWE, or if he doesn't want to praise TNA. It's really all something that he should be more than allowed to. Especially considering we all do it on here. We have a lot of WWE, as well as TNA bashers, should we start creating threads on these guys, and tell them that they should start bashing the other promotion? No, because it's their opinion.

And certainly it can get annoying as hell to listen to someone constantly bitching about TNA, or constantly complaining about WWE for not being in the Attitude Era. Well, it's not really our product, it's their product. And they're garnering viewers, who are able to turn off, if they want to.

 

[Carpathian Florist]

TNA should give Madden a job as "They", he's certainly big enough to form a stable by himself. Then he could just read his columns out on iMPACT! every week. He'd be the biggest heel in the company, having Abyss do all his dirty work for him.

 

[ilapierre]

I have to commend crashfellow for coming out and saying what so many level headed people think and have quit trying to explain to the IWC. Mark Madden is an enormous hypocrite. Sure his columns are worth a read, in fact some of the stupidest posts i've read right here on this thread are also worth a read for their entertainment value. But crashfellow hit the nail on the head with Madden. He's used so much rhetoric here for a few years to sway a lot of swayable wrestling fans to authenticate his personal vendetta against people from his past who stood in his way and i find it really sick. I loved the Z Man's columns and Discos, i agreed with a lot that both said because they logically built up and defended their arguments. These were two guys both unaffiliated with WWE or TNA, neither were obsessed with Ric Flair and both were financially successful (at least moreso than Madden, and be financially successful is what, according to Madden, we should judge things like credibility). All Madden does is throw out a few obvious truths and then twists them together with facts no more factual than gossip to say TNA sucks.

I actually agree with three quarters of Madden's latest post. He's done well to be sensitive to the haters to try to sway even more people over. He's doing a great job
at getting his personal agenda over. But wait a second. I don't agree with the point Madden's making no matter if i agree with three quarters of the post. TNA is not crap. And Madden is being truthful when he says he hates WWE for how they treated Flair. But he's staying away from WWE bashing on a regular basis so not to lose the majority of his fan base that hates TNA. He doesn't hate TNA. Without TNA, he wouldn't have any devoted followers. He just hates the people who run it because they stood in his way of advancing in his career. He thinks he has a big enough voice to get Hogan and Bischoff fired. The guy is off base living in his own world. And, like the OP here also said, TNA has been putting a better product out week after week. Madden's living in a dream world if he can't see that.

Another observation: Madden says wrestling is to be judged on how it draws money. HA!
Do most wrestling fans watch and judge wrestling based on how it makes money. NOOOO. Do most of the non-IWC watch and judge wrestling based on business? NOOO. Did wrestling fans back before internet or tv in the early 1900s? NO. Did they in 1960? NO! Did they in 1985 with Hulkamania? NOOOO! WWF was mainstream now and territory wrestling wasn't so WWF reached a larger audience and drew more money and drew the best territory wrestlers. WWF wasn't exactly better, it just sapped every other promotions resources and put them out of business. Did people quit watching territory wrestling because they figured WWE was drawing more money so they should stop watching their territory wrestling and just their tvs on to watch Hulk? NOOOOO. Did people judge WCW in 1990 and say it wasn't better than WWE because WWE was more financially successful?? Only pro-WWE marks, nobody else!! If WWE drew more money than WCW, then does that mean Hogan was a better wrestler than Flair based on the money Hogan made? Does that mean we should judge Flair as a failure and Hogan as best of all time? Under Madden's reasoning it would seem so!!

I'd argue you're a wrestling smark if you are obsessed with the business side of wrestling. There is nothing wrong with being a wrestling mark who loves wrestling for what it is. Wrestling is to be watched, it's suppose to entertain you, and if it's not entertaining you then you become obsessed with the business side of things. That's what happened in the PG Era. The IWC and Smark Madden have become business smarks and are too concerned with criticizing everything they subjectively think isn't good for business. They can't just relax and enjoy anything, and that's why they think everything sucks and blab about things sucking all day.

Let me just say one more thing: Madden is right when he says that drawing money is the most important thing for anybody working in wrestling. So for Bischoff and Hogan, money is most important. For the OP and Madden and the IWC, drawing money should be the last thing on their minds. They've not involved. It's only wrestling. It's suppose to be entertaining enough to watch but sadly it isn't. The reason it isn't is because WWE dictates the wrestling audience and its preferences. Not TNA, a company that unfortunately doesn't command enough influence to dictate anything in the wrestling world. Yet.

Madden: Keep all your five-star matches. I’d rather have a crap match that DRAWS MONEY. (You can have both.)

Me: Great. Lets throw Hogan in the ring and pit him up against Nash every Impact because that will draw money. F'n hypocrite!

 

[DirtyJosé]

I have to commend crashfellow for coming out and saying what so many level headed people think and have quit trying to explain to the IWC. Mark Madden is an enormous hypocrite. Sure his columns are worth a read, in fact some of the stupidest posts here are also worth a read for their entertainment value. But crashfellow hit the nail on the head with Madden. He's used so much rhetoric here for a few years to sway a lot of swayable wrestling fans to authenticate his personal vendetta against people from his past who stood in his way and i find it really sick. I loved the Z Man's columns and Discos, i agreed with everything both said. These were two guys both unaffiliated with WWE or TNA, neither were obsessed with Ric Flair and both were financially successful (at least moreso than Madden, and be financially successful is what, according to Madden, we should judge things like credibility).

Oh, this is gonna be fun. Another little mark with his panties in a bunch over a fucking editorial.

I actually agree with three quarters of Madden's latest post. He's done well to be sensitive to the haters to try to sway even more people over. He's doing a great job
at getting his personal agenda over.

What personal agenda are you talking about? The guy does broadcasting for a living, and writes articles for this site from time to time. Are you privy to his secret plan or something?

But wait a second. I don't agree with the point Madden's making no matter if i agree with three quarters of the post. TNA is not crap.

Yes they are.

And Madden is being truthful when he says he hates WWE for how they treated Flair. But he's staying away from WWE bashing on a regular basis so not to lose the majority of his fan base that hates TNA.

So I guess you didn't actually read any of the articles where he continues to criticize the WWE. It seems your attachment to TNA is so deep that it blinds you to anything else. If it seems like TNA gets more crap than WWE, it's because TNA puts out more crap than WWE does.

He doesn't hate TNA. He just hates the people who run it because they stood in his way of advancing in his career.

Dixie Carter stood in the way of his career is WCW? Wow, you are something special, kid.

He thinks he has a big enough voice to get Hogan and Bischoff fired.

Can you cite this, please, because I'm pretty fucking certain he's never mentioned anything like this. I know that sitting alone at home with your Abyss panties on in your mother's basement that you get easily riled up by what Madden says, but you need to stop making things up. You just look ignorant.

The guy is off base living in his own world. And, like the OP here also said, TNA has been putting a better product out week after week. Madden's living in a dream world if he can't see that.

TNA's "better" product keeps getting so much better week after week that ratings are falling because people get awesome-induced heart attacks watching Impact. TNA's product is so much better that much much less people spend money on it, and that number only continues to drop.

One last thing: Madden says wrestling is to be judged on how it draws money. HA!
Do wrestling fans watch and judge wrestling based on how it makes money. NOOOO

Obviously, you missed the point. I'm not surprised however; those Abyss panties you love must be screwing with the blood flow to your ass (which is clearly where you've been keeping your brain this whole time). What is the point of any entertainment business? TO MAKE MONEY! If you aren't making money, what are you doing?

Did wrestling fans back in the early 1900s? NO. Did they in 1960? NO! Did they in 1985? NOOOO! Did people quit watching territory wrestling because it couldn't compete with Hogan and WWF? NOOOOO. Did people judge WCW in 1990 and say it wasn't better than WWE because WWE was more financially successful?? Only pro-WWE marks!!

What's great is not only did you not understand what was being talked about, but you've decided to dedicate the latter half of your near illegible post to ranting about a point that no one actually made. Do you usually enjoy talking to yourself like that? Do you enjoy putting words into people's mouth simply to suite your narrow world view?

I'd argue you're a wrestling mark if you are obsessed with the business side of wrestling. Wrestling is to be watched, it's suppose to entertain you and if it's not entertaining you then you become obsessed with the business side of things. That's what happened in the PG Era. The IWC and Madden have become business marks and are too concerned with criticizing everything that isn't good for business. They can't just relax and enjoy anything, and that's why they think everything sucks.

WAAAAH IWC ANALYZES EVERYTHING TOO MUCH WAAAAH

This is so typical of over-defensive TNArds like yourself. Clearly the problem must be everyone else, not TNA. We're all too busy reading spreadsheets to care about what's going on in the ring. You have hit the nail on the head this time, champ; how did no one ever express sentiments like this before?

Let me just say one more thing: Madden is right when he says that drawing money is the most important thing for anybody working in wrestling. So for Bischoff and Hogan, money is most important. For the OP and Madden and the IWC, drawing money should be the last thing on their minds. It's wrestling. It's suppose to be entertaining enough to watch and sadly it isn't and the reason is WWE which dictates the wrestling audience. Not TNA, a company that unfortunately doesn't command enough influence to dictate anything in the wrestling world. Yet.

Madden's point was this: The goal of the industry is to utilize proper booking logic and common sense regarding what the fans want to see to produce angles and matches which draw money. His point regarding fans was that if you think that the industry's goals are/should be otherwise you are a deluded mark. Why else would these people do this to themselves? To make money. I know it's nice to think that they are out there doing it all just for you, but really they are all doing it for the paychecks. Can you explain to me just where in that quiet simple statement that you got totally lost into TNArd-ville?

Madden: Keep all your five-star matches. I’d rather have a crap match that DRAWS MONEY. (You can have both.)

Me: Great. Lets throw Hogan in the ring and pit him up against Nash every Impact because that will draw money. F'n hypocrite!

How is he a hypocrite? Did he say "Hogan and Nash make money, let them main event every night?" at all anywhere in his post? No, he did not, amigo. This is yet again another silly conclusion you have leapt to on your own.

Any other ways you'd like to be embarrassed today?

 

[ilapierre]

Dirty Jose: Read my post over again and let the words sink in buddy.

1 No. Just exposing the editorial for what it is. Complete bull.
2 Anyone who reads Madden's columns over the years knows the guy has a personal agenda against certain people in the business. Wake up!
3 No TNA doesn't suck. You suck for being a TNA hating smark.
4 I'm not attached to TNA. I watch casually. I watch WWE casually. And yes i've read Madden's columns attacking WWE. They are mild attacks and few and far between.
5 He attacks Dixie Carter because she gave people jobs he hates like Bischoff, Hogan, and Russo. Don't call me a kid, you little smark with your panties in a bunch.
6 Madden wants to get certain people fired from their positions in TNA. You've got a sick obsession with guys wearing panties. Are you a tranvestite?
7 Less people spend money on TNA because TNA is not as established as WWE. And the ratings aren't dropping, they've been about the same now for a long time. That means there are no more new fans watching. That's just using common sense, don't need a spreadsheet like you do to judge success. No new fans are watching because WWE dictates the bland wrestling scene right now. I ALREADY SAID THAT. Read what i say before you post crap here attacking my argument with bullshit reasoning.
8 If you own WWE or TNA the whole point is to make money. If you are a wrestling fan, Dirty Jose, then you watch wrestling to be entertained. If you watch wrestling so that WWE draws more money then you are a smark obsessed with the business side of things. Really sounds like you are the one with your panties in a bunch on here attacking those who use logical reasoning in their arguments.
9 I don't feel like responding to 9 10 11 12. My points are pretty clear and your flawed reasoning is obvious to all without me having to state why. Bottom line: Wrestling is all about making money to THOSE WITHIN THE BUSINESS. I never said it wasn't although you are trying to say i did. The OP said that too. But he also logically stated that DRAWING MONEY should not be a priority to wrestling fans. It should be about BEING ENTERTAINED. So DIRTY JOSE when did you start working in the wrestling business!!! Point proven. Get your head out of your ass. Wrestling fans (marks) watch wrestling to be entertained, they DO NOT WATCH because drawing money is the most important thing to them. They watch to be entertained. Holy s@#!
10 Madden said he'd rather watch a crap match that draws. Hogan and Nash could put on the crappiest match ever and it would draw since they are way more over than the guys maineventing in TNA or WWE now. We all know Madden hates Hogan and constantly says the guy shouldn't be in the ring. But under his latest reasoning, TNA should throw Hogan in the ring to wrestle a crappy match because that would draw more money. He's a hypocrite. Only a smark can't put two and two together!

Put the keyboard down and go get an education son.

 

[Whatsinaname696]

Although I agree with the OP, this thread really does nothing but give that sad oompa loompa even more attention, and believe me this is NOT a knock at WZ but if he's so f'n great and knowledgeable then why the hell is he a columnist for an IWC site as opposed to say ..oh I dunno... employed by a wrestling company, maybe it's cuz of what little they saw of him before WCW died =) when your column consist of nothing but blathering bullshit, cock sucking (I love Flair too, but Jesus), and self aggrandizing then are you really even a columnist... or just a has been that never was looking for a paycheck? although I do find it ironic that he is exactly what he wants to see... a crappy match that draws, too bad for the five star columnists, maybe we should pay more attention to them and less to this horse shit

 

[schaeffershawn]

I dont hate Tna but I can see it sucks. How else do you explain an improving product that still draws the same damn rating week after week or less. How else do you explain a company that brings in talent past their primes designed to boost ratings for the short term and it does not work. Madden in that very column says the WWE sucks too just not as bad.
It goes without saying the fans want to be entertained and if they are truly entertained like during the nwo, attitude years, hulkamaina 80s and other times that entertainment gets people to watch and buy. Yet no one is watching or buying TNA. That is what Madden is saying. the business model TNA has put forth is not working. If the product was improving the ratings and buy rates would be improving. they are not so the simple and obvious conclusion is it is not working.
I wager as Madden has shown he would love for TNA to be legit competition for the WWE. Because this would improve the product of the WWE. But the fact is TNA is at best a major independent company and at worst the WWE senior circuit. They cut the legs right out from under them by bringing in talent who are over paid (Hogan. Bischoff, Van Damn, Foley and EV2.) past their primes (EV2, Hardy, RVD, Hogan, Foley, the Nasty Boys, Team 3D and a host of others, and do not build on what they have (Styles, Joe, Beer Money and MCMG) along with not using correctly the little talent that they have managed to get on the cheap from the WWE (the Pope, Anderson.)
This has been the business plan from day one and it is not working.
TNA is losing money hand over fist.
They are not breaking even.
They will eventually die if things do not change.
I don't hate TNA and I'm not a smark who hates TNA I'm just a guy who has watched wrestling from 1983 on and has seen the business grow and change. I'm just a fan who is not impressed by what TNA has been offering. I'm just a guy who has ran businesses and knows if you are not making money after almost ten years you will not last much longer.

 

[Hazardous]

Oh holy shit, a writer who is bias towards something?! That's NEVER been done before!
ilapierre, wake up. This is what writing is about. You're not supposed to appeal to EVERYONE. You have your select audience, that's it. If a Republican is writing an article, of COURSE he's going to blame everything bad going on, on the Dem's. Well Madden is standing by WWE. Yes he's bashed them in the past, hell, he mocks a lot of their talent too (Hardy). But to him, TNA is not appealing. So he's not allowed to say that? Grow up child. If you read any paper in any city, it's all about how their sports team is better then another, or their ___ is better then the other cities ___. Well this is no different. A little thing called WRITERS OPINION. You don't like it? too bad. You're not his target audience then. Same way I don't like the TNA product, guess because I'm not their target audience. I bet if I were to pick apart everything Eric Bishoff says, you'd come in and defend him too. Here's a better idea, if you don't LIKE it, don't READ it.

 

[ilapierre]

schaeffershawn you are wrong. People are watching TNA. 1.0 percent of the public is something like a million households tuning in each week. That's only 2 percent less than WWE which is a multi billion dollar giant that's been in existence for half a century and has bought out every company in its way. TNA has maintained their ratings, which in today's wrestling climate is a victory for the underdog. WWE has not improved their ratings in over the past year either (or number of years for that matter). For a company as established and well known as WWE that is a bit of a step back if you ask me.

So if TNA's business model is not working because its ratings and buy rates are not improving that means TNA is not working? So since WWE's ratings and buy rates have not been maintained but actually dropped from enormous depths in the past decade does that mean the obvious conclusion is WWE is not working and actually sucks worse than TNA??

TNA is losing money hand over fist? Are you privy to this information. They aren't breaking even? Most businesses don't break even until they've become established. And becoming established in the wrestling business is harder than most since WWE pretty much had a monopoly over it. In most businesses, yes, you need to make money within 10 years at most or the business goes under. But wrestling is a whole different business. It is one where you can lose money for 10 to 20 years and then have a 3 year period, like in WCW, that will not only make back the money invested but generate the people involved big time money.

TNA will die if things do not change? I wouldn't be so quick to say TNA is going to die. As long as their are financial backers who don't want to sell to the WWE, TNA will be around. There are a lot of rich entrepreneurs out there ready to take major gambles with their money to make even more money and any rich tycoon with a brain can see that WWE is not invincible. Ted Turner laughed away millions of dollars just to show Vince he could beat him at his own game. Whose to say that won't happen again?

 

[ilapierre]

Mongoose McQueen i'm 29 years old buddy boy and i've been a journalist writing news stories and columns now since you were 13 years old learning how to spell the big words i wrote back there that went way over your head. Pretty ironic eh??

You are right that every writer has a bias and is allowed to have an opinion and voice it. But if they do not use proper argumentation, then their argument is flawed and can be easily picked apart by someone like myself who can see through subjective rhetoric. Madden watches TNA every week, then turns around and says its not appealing? Perhaps he should quit watching then, just like i should quit reading, because his criticisms are redundant just like mine are becoming. If i came on here and said Madden was fat and lazy and that's why he's not a great columnist, then i would be using Madden's type of subjective reasoning in criticizing TNA. It's his own personal agenda, he's got a column to write and a lot of very defensive Insane Wacked Clowns to appease. He has everything to gain by dumping on TNA because the majority of IWC are WWE smarks. I, on the other hand, am nothing more than a casual fan who tunes in to both WWE and TNA from time to time but on no schedule. TNA could improve vastly, so can WWE, but TNA does have a lot going right for it right now (in my objective opinion). Subjectively, I would prefer WWE if WWE were to get good again. But objectively TNA is doing quite a lot better than I ever imagined and, in wrestling's least entertaining era, isn't doing half bad. I'm just giving credit where credit is due, i'm not a blabbering smark with an axe to grind or obsessive about a below average wrestling show or routinely criticizing that company's competition. I'm not emotionally invested in either WWE or TNA, and i'm much more objective than the smarks here take me for.

Anyway, it's not that I don't like what Madden writes. I do laugh from time to time. Moreso at him than along with him though. The difference between the target audience thing with him and TNA and his column and me is I can see through what he's doing and most of you WWE loving extremists can't. The IWC are essentially a cult of extremist smarks who keep Smark Madden relevant. Without you he is nothing, and without him there's not enough people here in positions of authority to say what all you sensitive WWE lovers want to hear: TNA sucks worse than WWE no matter what.

And yeah if you tried to pick apart anything Eric Bischoff said i'd pick you apart for being stupid. Bischoff's iq is probably 100 points higher than Maddens'.

 

[crashfellow]

It's been fun reading the replies. Always good to see non abusive but passionate conversation.

DirtyJosé: The phrase mark was never meant to be used for all purposes. It was purely based at people who truly believed wrestling was real.

I heard it first during DX's first run, and I'm amazed people continue to use the word whenever they feel like it for any reason. In that vain, using mark in any way you chose to? is a very mark thing to do.

 

[Hazardous]

Mongoose McQueen i'm 29 years old buddy boy and i've been a journalist writing news stories and columns now since you were 13 years old learning how to spell the big words i wrote back there that went way over your head. Pretty ironic eh??

Another cocky one. Good, love bringing you guys back down to earth. See around here, you make a name for yourself with GOOD posts, not ones trying to make you seem smarter, and everyone else an idiot. Nice try though. No, none of your "big words" went over my head actually. Thanks for asking though. Was real nice of you.

You are right that every writer has a bias and is allowed to have an opinion and voice it.

Glad you agree. You're off to a good start..

But if they do not use proper argumentation, then their argument is flawed and can be easily picked apart by someone like myself who can see through subjective rhetoric.

There goes that good start.. I used that example in my post for a reason. When you hear Fox News talking about say.. The president. Are they using facts? NO it's a smear campaign. They hate him, so they say he's a Muslim.. Or is Hitler. Then MSNBC does it about the other guy, saying Bush is Hitler. That's how these things work. You said you were a "journalist writing news stories and columns". Well then you should be aware of this.

Madden watches TNA every week, then turns around and says its not appealing? Perhaps he should quit watching then, just like i should quit reading, because his criticisms are redundant just like mine are becoming.

Did you see the newest article? He says he also does not like the WWE product that much. But what does WWE need to prove? Nothing. They have nothing to prove right now, because there IS nothing to prove. They are #1, no one comes close to dethroning them. TNA DOES have to prove something. That's why he says what he does. People want TNA to succeed. But they are not going to with the Russo style stories. Russo is garbage. Only reason he was good, was because he had McMahon to sit there and say what was good, and what was not. I know, I took a Poll on this. With the product TNA has right now, they are not going to grow any larger. Madden knows the WWE product is weak, but why bother picking on the Top guy who is not going anywhere?

If i came on here and said Madden was fat and lazy and that's why he's not a great columnist, then i would be using Madden's type of subjective reasoning in criticizing TNA.

Except being Fat and Lazy has nothing to do with writing. Giving things you don't like about the way things are ran does.

It's his own personal agenda, he's got a column to write and a lot of very defensive Insane Wacked Clowns to appease. He has everything to gain by dumping on TNA because the majority of IWC are WWE smarks.

There are TNA fan's on here that somewhat agree with him also. Nice try, but wrong.

I, on the other hand, am nothing more than a casual fan who tunes in to both WWE and TNA from time to time but on no schedule. TNA could improve vastly, so can WWE, but TNA does have a lot going right for it right now (in my objective opinion).

Again, WWE has no reason to change. TNA wants to be bigger then it is. They want to grow into something like what WCW was, or WWF was, hell, to the point WWE IS. They want to be a big company, but with the product they have right now, they can't. Ratings are not going up. Is that not saying something needs to get better? That changes need to be made?

Subjectively, I would prefer WWE if WWE were to get good again.

I have no issue with it right now. I've criticized it a lot in the past also, same with TNA. But I think WWE is good as it is now.

But objectively TNA is doing quite a lot better than I ever imagined and, in wrestling's least entertaining era, isn't doing half bad. I'm just giving credit where credit is due, i'm not a blabbering smark with an axe to grind or obsessive about a below average wrestling show or routinely criticizing that company's competition. I'm not emotionally invested in either WWE or TNA, and i'm much more objective than the smarks here take me for.

See, insulting the masses is not going to make you too popular, or make a lot of people take you serious. "Smark this, Smark that." Yes TNA is doing fine. But is that good enough? Do you think TNA wants to stay where they are at? Or grow to be a big company? Yeah, pretty simple answer to that really.

Anyway, it's not that I don't like what Madden writes. I do laugh from time to time. Moreso at him than along with him though.

I rather enjoy his work. He does have some good points in his articles. Would like to see you write one up that WZ posts. Other people here have done it.

The difference between the target audience thing with him and TNA and his column and me is I can see through what he's doing and most of you WWE loving extremists can't.

There you go again. Should I add "Madden" to your last name? Since you're so quick to mock the WWE fans and all. He's saying what he thinks. HIS opinion. If you wrote one, I bet there would be a thread of people picking it apart too.

The IWC are essentially a cult of extremist smarks who keep Smark Madden relevant. Without you he is nothing, and without him there's not enough people here in positions of authority to say what all you sensitive WWE lovers want to hear: TNA sucks worse than WWE no matter what.

At the moment, it's nothing compared to WWE. There is many way's they can improve, that they don't seem to be exploring at the moment. Yeah money may be an issue.. Well, stop picking up some of the more useless talent. Hell even Paul Heyman, who they were trying to get, said he would fire anyone over the age of 40. That means all his former boys. More then the IWC listen to him buddy boy, sorry to disappoint.

And yeah if you tried to pick apart anything Eric Bischoff said i'd pick you apart for being stupid. Bischoff's iq is probably 100 points higher than Maddens'.

Funny though since Bishoff is bias as well. Of course he's going to praise TNA and rip into WWE. Hmm, funny how that works. Madden did say some stuff he didn't like about WWE in the new one. Would Bishoff do that about TNA? Doubt it.

 

[schaeffershawn]

schaeffershawn you are wrong. People are watching TNA. 1.0 percent of the public is something like a million households tuning in each week. That's only 2 percent less than WWE which is a multi billion dollar giant that's been in existence for half a century and has bought out every company in its way. TNA has maintained their ratings, which in today's wrestling climate is a victory for the underdog. WWE has not improved their ratings in over the past year either (or number of years for that matter). For a company as established and well known as WWE that is a bit of a step back if you ask me.

So if TNA's business model is not working because its ratings and buy rates are not improving that means TNA is not working? So since WWE's ratings and buy rates have not been maintained but actually dropped from enormous depths in the past decade does that mean the obvious conclusion is WWE is not working and actually sucks worse than TNA??

TNA is losing money hand over fist? Are you privy to this information. They aren't breaking even? Most businesses don't break even until they've become established. And becoming established in the wrestling business is harder than most since WWE pretty much had a monopoly over it. In most businesses, yes, you need to make money within 10 years at most or the business goes under. But wrestling is a whole different business. It is one where you can lose money for 10 to 20 years and then have a 3 year period, like in WCW, that will not only make back the money invested but generate the people involved big time money.

TNA will die if things do not change? I wouldn't be so quick to say TNA is going to die. As long as their are financial backers who don't want to sell to the WWE, TNA will be around. There are a lot of rich entrepreneurs out there ready to take major gambles with their money to make even more money and any rich tycoon with a brain can see that WWE is not invincible. Ted Turner laughed away millions of dollars just to show Vince he could beat him at his own game. Whose to say that won't happen again?

The vast difference being the WWE still makes money. Obviously they need to chnage in order to get ratings up and buy rates for that matter, but they also generate more in merchandise then TNA does altogether. The WWE also has even in a bad time for wrestling ow I dont know in the Us alone 2,000,000 to 2,500,000 million more viewers per week. When TNA raises to 1,500,000 maybe then we can say they are imporving. Granted 1,000,000 out of a whopping 300,000,000 may seem good to sum but I assure you in reality TNA is basically playing a game of marko pollo with Hellene Keller.

One does not have to be privy to a companies financial info to see a struggling company. just like a person does not to see dog shit in order to smell it. All it takes is some economic knowledge. TNA does not make significant money with house shows. They do not make money off of tickets for most PPVs and Impact tappings. They don't make anything off their piss poor PPV buy rates. They make very little back by way of merchandise, i.e. their video game that bombed, and having no face that is just raking it in ala John Cena or cool heel group like the nWo or DX back in the day. Their only real source of revenue is what Spike and foreign networks pay for their programing. Which when you subtract the substantial cost of PPV's which make nothing for them, combined with big money contracts for Hogan and others even with Spike chipping in = losing money like a virgin at a strip club. Additionally big daddy Bob Carter of Panda is not a money mark like his daughter. He is a very successful business man who more then likely will at some point cut the purse strings for his daughters toy.

You are some what accurate in the differences between the wrestling business and others, but one could argue look at ECW going belly up in less then ten years, XWF never getting going, XPW going belly up, MLW going belly up and a host of others and you are banking on people constantly jumping in to save TNA. I just don't see it happening. The more likely scenario is eventually Spike gets tired of paying what they pay for a stagnate product and want to pay less Ala when they wanted to pay less for Raw. This leads TNA in bad shape because not many networks want wrestling on their stations. Think about it even the WWE has had trouble finding networks for their programing and we are talking about one of the most recognized brands in the world. So TNA has trouble finding a new home if it does at all and then it dies, or TNA takes a terrible deal and it dies. Because as stated above what is the chances Bob is going to want to keep funding a product that is losing money. It also opens the door this this Wiploun group everyone seems to be talking about to take a shot at being number 2, although the reality is unless you have Ted Turner like money and a guaranteed good TV deal its not going to work.

 

[Rayne]

Mongoose McQueen i'm 29 years old buddy boy and i've been a journalist writing news stories and columns now since you were 13 years old learning how to spell the big words i wrote back there that went way over your head. Pretty ironic eh??

Bullshit, says I. For someone who claims that they're a journalist by profession, you use a surprising amount of run-on sentences, sentence fragments, lowercase i's, and generally poor grammar. You don't have the habits that journalists have.

Granted, it's more readable than most of the posts here, which is a pretty low bar to hit. I'm not claiming that I own perfect grammar and know exactly when to use a semi-colon and where to use a comma, but I'm not trying to pass myself off as a journalist.

As a journalist though, you should have learned early to follow the money. TNA has low PPV buy rates, unless there's some very large, secret group buying these PPV's that doesn't speak up. They have a TV deal but no particular leverage over their network; without SpikeTV, TNA doesn't have any other good options in the states. (Translation: they don't have a great TV deal to lie back on financially.) A 1.0 doesn't bring in any special advertising money, and that's their flagship show.

Their production costs are low, relatively speaking, as they can film in a TV studio. Many of the wrestlers they brought in came because they had no better options; Mr. Anderson isn't working TNA because he chose them over the WWE. With a couple of exceptions, they aren't paying terrible amounts for talent. (I cringe at the thought of what they're overpaying for Hogan, Flair, and Bischoff, however- those are expensive names.) They don't do much advertising themselves, however, and if you aren't reminding people your product is there, they tend to forget about it. (Richard Blumenthal's ears are burning.)

TNA isn't spending themselves into oblivion, but I don't see where they are turning their spending into profit. At best, they're hanging onto the red side of even. They have no real reason to conceal a profit if they're making one, and several reasons to announce it if they were.

Half of a column journalists' job is analysis. Were you a journalist, you would have done this for yourself already and saved me the time.

 

[schaeffershawn]

Bullshit, says I. For someone who claims that they're a journalist by profession, you use a surprising amount of run-on sentences, sentence fragments, lowercase i's, and generally poor grammar. You don't have the habits that journalists have.

Granted, it's more readable than most of the posts here, which is a pretty low bar to hit. I'm not claiming that I own perfect grammar and know exactly when to use a semi-colon and where to use a comma, but I'm not trying to pass myself off as a journalist.

As a journalist though, you should have learned early to follow the money. TNA has low PPV buy rates, unless there's some very large, secret group buying these PPV's that doesn't speak up. They have a TV deal but no particular leverage over their network; without SpikeTV, TNA doesn't have any other good options in the states. (Translation: they don't have a great TV deal to lie back on financially.) A 1.0 doesn't bring in any special advertising money, and that's their flagship show.

Their production costs are low, relatively speaking, as they can film in a TV studio. Many of the wrestlers they brought in came because they had no better options; Mr. Anderson isn't working TNA because he chose them over the WWE. With a couple of exceptions, they aren't paying terrible amounts for talent. (I cringe at the thought of what they're overpaying for Hogan, Flair, and Bischoff, however- those are expensive names.) They don't do much advertising themselves, however, and if you aren't reminding people your product is there, they tend to forget about it. (Richard Blumenthal's ears are burning.)

TNA isn't spending themselves into oblivion, but I don't see where they are turning their spending into profit. At best, they're hanging onto the red side of even. They have no real reason to conceal a profit if they're making one, and several reasons to announce it if they were.

Half of a column journalists' job is analysis. Were you a journalist, you would have done this for yourself already and saved me the time.

There are a few larger contracts as I mentioned aside from Hogan, Bischoff and Flair. Nash is highly paid for the amount of dates he works. As are Sting, Foley, RVD and Hardy. That is why TNA does not have these guys do house shows and you will often see them send these guys home for a "30 day suspension." Additionally by over paying these people they are likely short changing the people need to be paying well. The likes of AJ, Joe, Beer Money, the Machine Guns, Jay Leathal and others. It is reasonable to assume these guys will eventually get sick of being underpaid and having the senior circuit pushed ahead of them. Oh wait that has already happen with the back stage heat on Dixie and management for bringing in the washed up EV2 faction.

 

[MB1025]

Here is the problem with Madden. He has a job writing for a wrestling website and he isn't any good at being a journalist. What he is doing is picking on the IWC whiping boy in TNA so he can get a following and have the mass agree with him. In turn it makes him look like he is accomplishing something. This would be like me in 2003 writing weekly articles about everything wrong with George W. Bush. I am not a good writer by any means, but it would be easy to do. What he should do is give his constrictive criticism or his ideas on things instead of acting like a majority of the jerk offs on the internet.

 

[schaeffershawn]

Here is the problem with Madden. He has a job writing for a wrestling website and he isn't any good at being a journalist. What he is doing is picking on the IWC whiping boy in TNA so he can get a following and have the mass agree with him. In turn it makes him look like he is accomplishing something. This would be like me in 2003 writing weekly articles about everything wrong with George W. Bush. I am not a good writer by any means, but it would be easy to do. What he should do is give his constrictive criticism or his ideas on things instead of acting like a majority of the jerk offs on the internet.

Here is the problem with your post.

A. Mark is not a journalist he is talk show host who is being paid to write an editorial on his opinions on wrestling at this time and to share his knowledge having been involved in the industry for sometime. Mark rants about TNA because he can. Their product sucks and it is porogotive to write what he thinks, as he is not a journalist and never claims to be he does not have to fact check and varify his information. Mostly because again it is just his opinion. The problem would be if he was reporting the information as fact then he would be doing what you suggest the majority of the media did during the Bush administartion, namely make stuff up and report it as fact. There is a vast difference which should be obvious. Often times editorials which you will note is what Mark's colums are labled under will present half truths, whole truths and any variation thereof, but our merely designed to get people to think and talk. Which incidently has worked as their are how many threads about what Madden has said.

 

[Whatsinaname696]

I agree with you, Schaeffershawn, that is has worked, as I said in my last post, but, and hopefully i can say this without getting banned, WZ puts his stupid ass shit up as an editorial.... when let's face facts, at least 20% of us and thas being conservative could write a better column than him, he's only here to hype shit, we have plenty of registered users to do that.... the columnists are suppose to be WORTH reading, and ::gulp:: if WZ thinks his stupid ass shit is worth reading then I have to wonder what the hell they think is worth reading or if they even think about it at all, I have heard plenty of criticizing of TNA from other columnists and I have absolutely no problem with it because it is constructive and true and not jus bullshit from a self serving fat sack who thinks he is in the loop because at one time (a brief time) he was on the air and not backstage answering hotline phones.... but your point is absolutely true as I jus wish nothing had been said about his post so we could let the runt of the columnists die, but he squeals loud enough to make sure everyone notices him so yeah.... this thread will happen again and again... ::sigh::

 

[schaeffershawn]

But there in lies the point. It is an editorial and we don't have to read it. The fact is obviously people do read it just like people listen to his radio show. No one will deny Madden is not a great writer or even a good writer. That is irrelevent to writting editorials. Editorials are just a persons thoughts nothing more and nothing less.