Major Stars Who Got Over, But Never With You?

[It's Damn Real!]

My buddy who I've watched wrestling with since my first year of college came down from Albany the last two weeks to visit friends here in New York City, and naturally we got together the past two Thursday nights to watch a ton of old WCW/WWF footage before eventually watching IMPACT each night. We normally see pretty much eye-to-eye in terms of characters we really take/took to, and the big thing for us both is obviously the personality of the performer. Hall, Nash, Hennig, Rude and others being among some of our favorite all-time performers, obviously. That's all fine and dandy, but he ended up saying something that really took me off guard last night while we were watching Hart/Piper from Wrestlemania VIII — he's never liked, or cared for Roddy Piper. I was shocked.

He admitted he had a fantastic personality. That the guy could wrestle well. That the gimmick was there. That he elevated his opponents in their feuds, etc. but that Piper himself was just a guy he never seemed to actually give a shit about, and it got me thinking — does everyone have at least one of these performers, who they will admit is over, but who you just didn't like despite the deck being stacked against you in the first place? I'm talking major stars here. You not liking The Miz doesn't really count. I'm talking among the demi-gods of pro-wrestling. Piper, André, Hogan, Flair, Nash, Savage, Hart, etc. I'm not completely limiting it to any specific era, so obviously a guy like Cena or HHH or whoever would still be eligible, but regardless, I'm curious.

I've been thinking about it last night and I can't really think of anyone who totally fits the bill, but I figured it might make for a decent thread if this isn't just an anomaly between friends.

What say ye?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

This one is easy for me and I think qualifies.

Edge - I am happy for him and his success but I never bought him as a top player or singles HW champion. He was a great tag guy and deserved a single career but the amount of success he had compared to what I think he deserves is like night and a thumb up the ass.

I would add Benoit and Guerrero to this list but I don't think they qualify in the same way as major stars in the way IDR intended.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I'd go with Edge too. Certain people make his entire singles career out to be something of magic, like he never had a mistake and that everything was perfect. When really, asides from his feuds with Taker, Matt Hardy and John Cena, he never really interested me. Sure he had a dozen or so good matches, but he never came across as a star for me. To be honest, I've always preferred Christian anyhow.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I think the guy I'd have to say best fits the criteria for me is actually HHH. I totally get why he got the push he did, and though I admittedly didn't watch a rather large percentage of the mid-2000's where he really came to the forefront, I just never truly gave a shit about him, despite the fact that I understood the position he was in. He could talk, he could wrestle, and for a while he was probably considered the best performer in the world, but for me he was always a bore. I was bored by everything about him, sans his actual entrance, which I still looking back think is/was the only really entertaining thing about him, regardless of the number of championships or high profile feuds you can point to involving him.

It's not even a thing where I didn't buy him in the role. I did. He had the size, the charisma, the ability, etc. I just didn't like the guy at all, even if he did "deserve" the spot. When his music hit and he hit the ring, I'd think "Cool intro... this guy looks great", and then he'd talk, and the match would begin, and my interest just faded away. In a lot of ways, I'd actually say I was a bigger fan of Batista than I ever was of HHH.

 

[Slash-LN]

Hogan

I was sat down in front of the tv to watch wrestling when I was 3 in 1988 so by that point Hogan had already been the biggest thing going for a few years.

By the time I really had a sense of who I liked and didn't like I was more into The Rockers because they were these cool high flyers. I liked Ultimate Warrior because of his look. I thought the face paint and streamers were cool. Guys like Bret Hart were starting to go solo. I didn't hate Hogan or anything I just wasn't into him.

Goldberg- I hated the 30 second squash matches and I didn't care about the streak. I will say i was more of a WWF guy at the time so maybe that had something to do with it buy I just never got into him. I remember watching the ppv where he had a match with DDP and it was his first kind of long match. I wanted DDP to win because I was a fan of him but of course Goldberg HAD to win.

Brock Lesnar- I hated him from his first run. I guess I just don't like these guys that are booked to not lose. When he was in the King of the Ring tournament vs RVD I knew he was going to beat RVD but I wanted to be proved wrong. That obviously didn't happen. I wasn't a fan of him in the UFC either and rooted against him in every fight he had. I was annoyed by his return to the WWE and I'm glad he isn't on my screen every week.

 

[jmt225]

Definitely Goldberg. I didn't mind him at first. I wasn't a fan of the quick matches. zero personality, and generic look, but I thought it was at least cool that everyone else went nuts for him. However, when he beat Raven for the US Championship after Raven had won it the night before, I never could get over it. Raven was my 2nd favorite wrestler at the time, and it was just so pointless for Goldberg to beat Raven at that time. And it wasn't the fact that he necessarily beat him, but that he absolutely squashed him and his entire Flock. I wasn't a "smark" back then by any means, but I believe that was the first time I was disgusted with a "booking" decision and from that point on Goldberg was just a major piece of shit in my eyes. Raven never really recovered from that beating either, which only fueled my hate.

Raven should have been WCW's top heel after the nWo finally faded away, and while I know it was WCW's decision not to make him such, to me it was also Goldberg's character to blame and I could never forgive him for that.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Batista.

I used to cringe when he was in the middle of a push because something in his body language seemed to cry that he didn't really want to be there. This was long before it became evident he thought he was above it all, but due to his look, the WWE machine was behind him and determined that he succeed, no matter what.

In his early days, when he was "deacon-ing" for Reverend D-Von, he reminded me of Bull Buchanan, who was doing the same for John Cena (remember that?) Even then, I was impressed by Batista's build but was as unexcited about his ring persona as I was in Buchanans'. There just didn't seem like much raw material to work with.

Still, management put Batista in feud after feud with top-notch performers, switching him from heel to face a couple of times to try and inject some life into his monotonous personality and droning promos.

Do I think he'll ever come back? Sure, if he needs money.....and if those God-awful tough guy movies he's making stop panning out. I saw about 15 minutes of one in which he played a trench coat wearing private detective....and remembered thinking they could have put the jacket on a cigar store wooden Indian and gotten the same results.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

There've been several but a few particularly stand out.

Jeff Hardy - I think Jeff Hardy is ok but I really don't understand what so many people see in him. I've never been particularly dazzled by his personality. From the standpoint of a character, I've always found the guy to be about as dull as dishwater. Maybe it's fans remembering all the huge bumps he's taken or something, I dunno. But the guy has no real personality to speak of and never really has. As far as charisma goes, the charisma of the "charismatic enigma" seems limited to him dressing in the goth/emo ring gear & face paint while occasionally dancing to his entrance music. Hardy's saving grace has been that he's very entertaining to watch inside the ring but, personally, I think the guy's more than a little overrated all in all. I can understand him getting pushed the way he has, his popularity is there and it makes money, but I just never truly warmed up to Jeff Hardy in the ways lots of others have.

Bill Goldberg - I've never been a fan of Bill Goldberg. I get that people did get into him, thus he generated money thus he got pushed. I've just never seen what other people have seen in the guy. His undefeated streak is one of the most overrated accomplishments in pro wrestling history once you take into account that the vast majority of those wins during his streak came about by squashing jobbers in 2 or 3 minutes. Whenever you put Goldberg in a match that went past 5 minutes or so, his limitations were crystal clear against most of the guys he wrestled. Goldberg had a great look first and foremost, and people bought into the streak with gusto. I just never saw it personally. I think Goldberg is one of the most overrated main eventers of the past 20 years.

Ultimate Warrior - I could not stand this guy even when I was a kid. Warrior was another guy in wrestling that had a tremendous physique that went much further than his abilities should have allowed. Most of Warrior's matches were pretty awful, though not always. Sometimes, he'd find himself against someone like a Randy Savage or Ted DiBiase but that was the exception rather than the rule. His personality consisted of little more than snorting/growling/screaming his head off whenever a microphone was put in front of him. Even though wrestling was certainly more cartoonish in some ways back in the 80s, especially in WWE, I thought the whole "Warrior Philosophy" and the "Warrior Gods" stuff was beyond silly.

Jeff Jarrett - To me, Jeff Jarrett is the personification of a good solid mid-card wrestler that became a main eventer without having the ability to back it up. Jarrett was someone that was fun watching back during the days of CWA and all. His character Double J was clownish but, personally, I thought it was really one of the few times in wrestling he really clicked as a character, at least for me. Double J worked good, solid matches in the WWF during the 90s and was a six time IC champ. Some of his runs were much better than others but Jarrett belonged there. WCW pushed him to the main event picture and it just never worked for me. He was laughable as a member of the Four Horsemen and his time as a main eventer in WCW was a sure sign that the company was circling the drain. To be fair though, his time as a main eventer in WCW came about when quality was at an all time low for them, but Jarrett certainly didn't improve things. Especially with 3 of his 4 reigns as WCW WHC lasting a combined total of 17 days. When Jarrett started up TNA and was forever in the main event picture, it reminded me a lot of the old days when the promoters booked themselves as the top stars of the company. I can understand why Jarrett did it from a business standpoint but, to me, it always seems that the only way for Jeff Jarrett to be a credible main event star was to form his own company and book himself as the top guy.

 

[Tattooed Jesus]

Randy Orton while he has one of the best finishers ever, I love the RKO, I have never understood what people saw in the guy or why he ever became a popular face character. He is boring as hell on the mic, his promo ability for a guy that has been on top as long as he has is mindblowingly bad. I find the jerky moves he does in the ring make him look like a seizure victim not a badass.

Goldberg, he was awful. He had two cool moves and that was it. He couldn't wrestle for shit, sucked on the mic, and was forced down everyones throat like a giant slimy dick and I never liked the guy. Really began to hate him after he fucked up the kick that ended Bret Harts wrestling career.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Andre the Giant.

I know for a fact I will be in the majority in this statement but I never liked him. I respect what he did for wrestling's history, but I was never interested in watching him. At all. The only time he ever truly entertained me was in The Princess Bride. Sure he was in the Wrestlemania 3 main event, one of the most important matches in history. The first few times I watched it when I was very young I liked it for Hogan and because Hogan won. Yes, he was huge. So what though? That is my reaction to all of the "giant" wrestlers. Having a huge build does not impress me whatsoever. I need promo skills and in-ring ability as well. So.... I don't hate the guy or anything and I have respect for what he accomplished, but I always found him to be incredibly boring.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Batista - Wasn't a fan. Never cared for his matches. I hated his character/personality until his last run as a heel. The guy was hilarious, which shocked the shit out of me.

Edge - Never interested me. Not when he was young, not when he was a main event guy. I concede he had some great matches and could, from time to time, work a great angle, but he never seemed to belong in the main event scene. I know most love the guy, but I just wasn't a fan.

Booker T - He became a big deal with WCW, and I never understood why. More so, I never understood why he was a big deal with WWE following the sale of WCW. He wasn't awful, but his best work happened while a mid-card singles wrestler with WCW (outside of his obvious tag team success). While main eventing, I can't remember a single match of his being above average.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Randy Orton while he has one of the best finishers ever, I love the RKO, I have never understood what people saw in the guy or why he ever became a popular face character. He is boring as hell on the mic, his promo ability for a guy that has been on top as long as he has is mindblowingly bad. I find the jerky moves he does in the ring make him look like a seizure victim not a badass.

His robotic tone is to suit his character. If Randy Orton came out doing a shtick like The Rock or Ric Flair, rhyming every second word in the dictionary and twisting it into an insult people wouldn't buy him as a cold, calculated character. I hate people who say this but neglect his original character and run. He doesn't do it naturally, he does it by design.

And as for the highlighted part, I direct you to the 2012 Thread of the Year by Sam, The Anatomy of a Good Promo: "My name... is Randy Orton."

 

[Lowdown]

If I had to pick someone in particular, I'd have to say Randy Orton. Don't get me wrong, he's talented and put on some good matches in his time. But he never really made me want to watch him in a sense. I used to feel that way about Kurt Angle in his early years with WWF, but warmed up to him the more he wrestled guys like Benoit and Jericho.

 

[Big Sexy]

Batista- A lot of people like to compare him to the Ultimate Warrior but outside of some similar mannerisms, I don't see it. Warrior was my favorite wrestler as a little kid but I could never get into Batista. Outside of his late heel run I never found him to be at all entertaining and even the heel run wasn't anything special. As a face he was completely boring and nothing about him stood out from any other bodybuilder type with a power move set.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

Ricky Steamboat was boring. Most of his matches almost put me to sleep, sitting through his promos always feels like a chore for me, because Steamboat's dull and lifeless personality is just unbearable.

His legacy receives a boost because of Flair and the Wrestlemania III match with Savage. When people reminisce about Steamboat, they bring up the WrestleWar '89 match with Flair, the IC title match with Savage......and that's it. Some people might mention the two out of three falls match from Clash of the Champions VI, but you'll be hard-pressed to hear any other impressive accolades. Steamboat is praised as a master technician inside the ring, but when you take away the Mania III match and his work with Flair, it's hard to come up with some bragging rights worthy material.

And his three disc DVD set is shit. Usually, I never regret purchasing WWE DVD sets, but Steamboat's DVD set is so uninteresting. The documentary portion is a snooze-fest from beginning to end, and the match selection is weak.

 

[hatehabsforever]

I'll throw Samoa Joe's name out there, although he's not really a "major star" and it's debatable if he's truly ever really gotten "over". But here's a guy who's so revered by so many members of the IWC, but I just don't see the appeal of the guy whatsoever. Granted I'm unfamiliar with his work in ROH or anywhere else he's worked in the indies. But from what I've see of him, he's an average guy in terms of in ring ability, a fat guy who moves well for a fat guy, but nothing more. I see little in terms of charisma or mic skills, a guy who is the personification of a big fish in a little pond. People have speculated about him "jumping ship" to the WWE but the simple fact of the matter is, I'm sure they have little interest in him at all and if by some stretch of the imagination he did go there, he'd never get past the mid card, not because he's misused or underutilized by the WWE, but rather, because that would be all he would deserve to accomplish.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

There are a few guys that are pretty hit-and-miss for me. As I said in Sam's Rey Mysterio thread, if a guy can't cut a promo, even if he's the best wrestler on the planet, there's only so "over" he can get with me. Jeff Hardy is a great talent, and he consistently steals the show on PPV because he's innovative and shows up in big matches (you know, when he's clean). But even in his own head, he can't cut a promo.

But the one guy who never impressed me all that much was...Hulk Hogan. Yep, sorry. I'm not going to patronize everyone by giving that ridiculous "I respect what he's done for the business, but..." speech everyone uses when talking about John Cena. The bottom line is that I just don't enjoy Hogan. As such, I wasn't that into the original nWo, which I know is like...a cardinal sin to admit. That being said, I love Scott Hall, so it wasn't like I hated it or anything. I don't want to hate on him too much for not being a great "wrestler", because there are all kinds of wrestlers out there. It's not all about technical submission skill, nor is it all about flips and tricks. Bottom line, I don't like Hogan.

Side note: I don't mind him as Impact GM. You know that patronizing speech I said I wasn't going to give? Well, it's true. I do respect his place in the industry - however, I will never, ever call him the best of all time - and I think he brings a certain amount of credibility to the TNA product. Being GM actually makes a lot of sense.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I don't feel the same way now, but as a kid I just had no desire to ever see Bret Hart. Most of it comes from how big of a mark I was for Shawn Michaels at the time. My first name is Michael, his last name was Michaels, it was destiny. I didn't understand why at the time, I just knew HBK hated Bret, so by extension I also hated Bret.

Sting is a guy who I was never a fan of either. Maybe it is because I'm not a fan of face paint, maybe it is because two of his best know gimmicks were blatant film rip offs, maybe it was the often super human comebacks, I'm not sure, but I'm not a fan. He is one of the greatest in not only my generation, but other generations, I just don't care for him.

 

[PsychoBlack]

I'll throw Samoa Joe's name out there, although he's not really a "major star" and it's debatable if he's truly ever really gotten "over". But here's a guy who's so revered by so many members of the IWC, but I just don't see the appeal of the guy whatsoever. Granted I'm unfamiliar with his work in ROH or anywhere else he's worked in the indies. But from what I've see of him, he's an average guy in terms of in ring ability, a fat guy who moves well for a fat guy, but nothing more. I see little in terms of charisma or mic skills, a guy who is the personification of a big fish in a little pond. People have speculated about him "jumping ship" to the WWE but the simple fact of the matter is, I'm sure they have little interest in him at all and if by some stretch of the imagination he did go there, he'd never get past the mid card, not because he's misused or underutilized by the WWE, but rather, because that would be all he would deserve to accomplish.

I just have to say here that Joe is actually an amazing in ring competitor. If he jumped ship I'm sure his old buddy CM Punk with all the pull we've seen him have in the company would get him into something big. Not trying to argue just stating my opinion.

Now to the op. I never really Liked Mick Foley in any of his three faces. He just seemed like a weird old dude that got beat up in high school and I'm supposed to buy him as this crazy savage? Fuck that to this very day i can't stand his ass. He was a glorified jobber to the stars and he gets treated like he revolutionized the sport on the same level that Flair and Hogan did.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I don't feel the same way now, but as a kid I just had no desire to ever see Bret Hart. Most of it comes from how big of a mark I was for Shawn Michaels at the time. My first name is Michael, his last name was Michaels, it was destiny. I didn't understand why at the time, I just knew HBK hated Bret, so by extension I also hated Bret.

You and I were in the same boat but instead I sided with Bret. I know Shawn Michaels had talent, even at that age he was interesting to me and all, but I used to hate him with a passion. This is of course at that young age where I didn't get the ins and outs of the wrestling business yet, so Shawn to me was the devil incarnate cause I was the biggest Bret Hart fan going. Admittedly Bret was my idol until I grew older and lost my inhibition to have a hero. Still love Bret though. Like Shawn too. Especially after the Greatest Rivalries DVD.

 

[Brewski]

I don't feel the same way now, but as a kid I just had no desire to ever see Bret Hart. Most of it comes from how big of a mark I was for Shawn Michaels at the time. My first name is Michael, his last name was Michaels, it was destiny. I didn't understand why at the time, I just knew HBK hated Bret, so by extension I also hated Bret.

You and I were in the same boat but instead I sided with Bret. I know Shawn Michaels had talent, even at that age he was interesting to me and all, but I used to hate him with a passion. This is of course at that young age where I didn't get the ins and outs of the wrestling business yet, so Shawn to me was the devil incarnate cause I was the biggest Bret Hart fan going. Admittedly Bret was my idol until I grew older and lost my inhibition to have a hero. Still love Bret though. Like Shawn too. Especially after the Greatest Rivalries DVD.

Wow I thought I was alone on this one! TBH I was in my early teens when Hart was coming out of WWF and everything I ever saw of him was really the falling portion of his career. He was never interesting in promos to me and at that age I was so much more entertained by Michaels, Taker, and SCSA than Bret. Everything after he went to WCW was pretty piss poor. Looking back at his matches now I should have appreciated him more but at the time he was boring to me.

Now to the op. I never really Liked Mick Foley in any of his three faces. He just seemed like a weird old dude that got beat up in high school and I'm supposed to buy him as this crazy savage? Fuck that to this very day i can't stand his ass. He was a glorified jobber to the stars and he gets treated like he revolutionized the sport on the same level that Flair and Hogan did.

I think it's a really easy thing to look back at Foley matches and just say that his only move was falling off things but if you consider what he did for WWE durring that time promo-wise it's pretty amazing. The Mankind character was really unique and made for a lot of good, dark storytelling that the "attitude era" was known for. It's impossible to really see these again and feel how they were week to week but if you can find the JR interviews with mankind it's worth the time to watch.

 

[HBsam31]

The Ultimate Warrior. I didn't like this guy even as a kid. I remember rooting for his opponents everytime. Hell I became a fan of Rick Rude just because he beat The Warrior. I never got into him praying to the Warrior Gods, and in his match vs Savage when he started asking the "Gods" what he should do I was begging for Savage just to beat him senseless with a chair. He was a rising star, and I get why everyone loved him. His energy, his look, and the fact that he was dominant, but I just never bought into it.

 

[Wolf Pac]

Edge - But after his Rated RKO stint ended. I was into him from the beginning of his career but once he moved to Smackdown in 2008, he just never interested me ever again. The guy is one hell of a wrestler, but his Rated R Superstar character grew stale with me, and his feuds and storylines were really boring. Maybe the only thing I could stand from his time on Smackdown were his matches with Taker but not the feud though cause it was always overshadowed by his crappy storyline with Vickie Guererro. I thought he could've had a great feud with HHH but that only lasted one month and again it was overshadowed by that Vickie Guererro/Alicia Fox snoozefest. When he turned babyface it just got even worse from there, I could never buy into him as a face for some reason.

Jeff Hardy - Jack-Hammer covered everthing here. He's exciting in the ring and has given us plenty of OMGWTFBBQ moments, but his character and personality if he even has one are dull and his promos are just bland. I dig him when he's being a spot monkey and putting on good matches but apart from that I just can't get into him at all

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

The biggest example I could give would be with Austin. This would be early on in his run as the top guy so I'm talking 98 and 99. H didn't get over with me because he was uninteresting or anything like that but rather I was a huge Rock fan since his 1st heel turn and he had his fued with Austin than, his spot with Austin in the 98 Rumble as well so by the time Austin was in full swing in the summer of 98 I was a huge Rock fan and as such always sided with Rock as being the best.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Wow I thought I was alone on this one! TBH I was in my early teens when Hart was coming out of WWF and everything I ever saw of him was really the falling portion of his career. He was never interesting in promos to me and at that age I was so much more entertained by Michaels, Taker, and SCSA than Bret. Everything after he went to WCW was pretty piss poor. Looking back at his matches now I should have appreciated him more but at the time he was boring to me.

Yeah, Bret is like an acquired taste. If its sweet you can't get enough, if it's sour you'll probably find more value in whatever Shawn did. Even thinking about it I can see why I matured into a more "I prefer the wrestling" type of fan, cause Bret was never riveting on the stick. Still had some gems though.

I'd also throw in his portion of the promo which featured Shawn's "Sunny days" comment. Its a watch alone simply for Bret's facial reaction which got very serious.

Spoiler

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