Legacy Comparison: Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Jericho

[Ferbian]

Oh my god, Ferbs... At least giive me partial credit for this thread, fool.

Oh no need to complain. I didn't even think it would take off like this.

However, If you were to compare Eddie Guerrero and Chris Jericho from the time Eddie had died (2005) to how Chris Jericho at that time, the simple answer would be that Eddie had the greater legacy. Why? Because Jericho wasn't actually considered to be one of the best in the world until just recently. Most of Jericho’s greatest accomplishes (i.e. being proclaimed so and so by PWI, Wrestling Observer, etc.) weren’t achieved until after his return from his departure in 2005. It was during his return, that Jericho was proclaimed one of the best---not before. On the other hand, all of Eddie’s accomplishes came before hand (obviously since he was still alive).

However, the problem is that while Eddie may have accomplished a lot in terms of readers and reviewer awards, Chris Jericho has accomplished more from where it matters - The bookers. As you very well know, Chris Jericho has a much bigger title legacy, as well as a long list of practically having feuded and or defeated the majority of the who's who of the wrestling industry. While Eddie has some of that to brag about as well, he does not have it in the same manner as Chris.

Also, sure you could argue that the match quality steps in to help Eddie in this situation. However, that would be rather nullified due to the fact that Chris Jericho tore the house down, and wrestled just as many and equally if not better matches than Eddie.

This is what most fail to understand. You cannot compare the two from how things are right now. You have to compare the two from when we last saw Eddie---2005. Therefore, comparing the legacy between the two from the year 2005 and down, Eddie clearly had the greater legacy. Of course, as of this moment Chris Jericho has the bigger legacy simply because he is still alive. Now, had Eddie still been alive to this day, we would be talking a different story.

Just because one of the two's careers ended at one point while the others continued (Later on, due to Chris more or less temporarily retiring in 2005), that doesn't mean that the one's career who continued should be completely ignored because the other one didn't have a chance to fulfill his career in those years.

Besides, if Chris Jericho would've stuck around alongside a living Eddie from 2005 -> now, Chris would still have the better legacy. Because while they both would've continued to tear down the house, Chris would most likely have been the one who continued to return into major feuds and world title reigns. Where as Eddie, while he might have accomplished getting title reigns once again and all that, I doubt it would've been in the same manner of Jericho.

 

[Optimist Prime]

It's quite hard to compare the two of them because of one major factor. When somebody dies in their prime or when they are at least still relevant, people claim that they died too young and "had so much more to give". They automatically draw their own conclusions that sometimes disregard the decline, fall, and retirement of a certain character and picture a perfect outcome and ending for that person when thinking about it in their head.

The person who is living, on the other hand, has to go through this phase with much scrutiny and reality that usually isn't on anybody's side.

Take Hulk Hogan for example. Had Hulk Hogan unfortunately passed away around the year 2000 (just before he started becoming irrelevant to the public - he was still ver much relevent in the late 1990's) fans everywhere would have poured out with feelings and thoughts about how incredible he was and his legacy would be infinitely better than it is right now, now that he is still alive, and all the personal troubles and nonsense that has taken place since then. Hulk Hogan's legacy, while still extremely respectable, isn't the same now as it would have been had he died around the late 90's.

For all we know, Eddie Guerrero could have raped a woman (or more than one) or murdered somebody, or done something to tarnish his legacy had he still been alive today. You could make vague assumptions and say "well he took risks with things like pain killers and steroids and mixing drugs and drinking alcohol, etc. so we could assume he's not a very good decision maker and therefore could have been more prone to make other various bad decisions in the future had he survived a little longer." OR perhaps he could have done even more glorious things, we don't know.

Chris Jericho, when it's all said and done, will have a wonderful career for himself...but just like anything else...people will watch his decline and fall and have that image in their head at least at some point...where they will never have that image of Eddie Guerrero or anybody else that has passed away where people have thought "they had so much more to give". But who knows? Maybe they didn't...

Personally, as much as I'm not a big fan of Guerrero, I do respect him quite a bit. I do feel he was a legend before he went mainstream in WWE as World Heavyweight Champion and such...and actually felt his World Title reigns even cheapened his legacy as I felt he should have remained where he was when he was in WCW and such.

Chris Jericho, on the other hand, had the personality and charisma to make it in the mainstream a little bit better than Guerrero did. Which is why I would rate Jericho's legacy a bit better than Guerrero's. Although, if I were an aspiring wrestler...I would be more than happy to have either one of theirs.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

Oh no need to complain. I didn't even think it would take off like this.

Well it did, and now it's going to go a bit further.

However, the problem is that while Eddie may have accomplished a lot in terms of readers and reviewer awards, Chris Jericho has accomplished more from where it matters - The bookers. As you very well know, Chris Jericho has a much bigger title legacy, as well as a long list of practically having feuded and or defeated the majority of the who's who of the wrestling industry. While Eddie has some of that to brag about as well, he does not have it in the same manner as Chris.

I bolded the "wrestling industry" part because when you said that, you should really only be reffering to WWE/F. In WCW, Chris Jericho, more or less, was at the same status of Eddie Guerrero. Both were very popular, yet a bit under-exposed. Sure Chris had more more titles (2 to be exact) than Eddie, but, again, more or less the same.

But I want you to take a look outside of these two territories (WCW/WWF). In ECW, Eddie was clearly the more accomplished (at least from what I can remember). Not to mention, he was a heck of a lot more popular than Chris Jericho. And if we are talking titles, Eddie held the ECW television title one more time than Jericho. Now lets go a bit further into the whole world (i.e. non-US territory). Take a good look at Eddie's accomplishes, now compare them to Chris's. Who has more? Clearly, Eddie. Whether it be because Eddie was in more wrestling companies than Jericho, it really doesn't matter because Eddie became more exposed to the world than Chris Jericho did---Thus, generating a bigger legacy.

Side note: Titles are technically just props (I'm against this, but that's a different story for a different thread.)

Also, sure you could argue that the match quality steps in to help Eddie in this situation. However, that would be rather nullified due to the fact that Chris Jericho tore the house down, and wrestled just as many and equally if not better matches than Eddie.

Well this one is clearly arguable. Eddie's matches compared to Chris's matches are clearly based on opinion. While I [obviously] find Eddie Guerrero's matches more entertaining, another person wouldn't. However, the fact that both are extremely talented wrestlers cannot be denied as clearly both men tended to tear the roof down. If you don't mind, I would rather we agree to disagree on this one. Or unless you want to compare matches and wrestling moves they used---which is fine with me.

Just because one of the two's careers ended at one point while the others continued (Later on, due to Chris more or less temporarily retiring in 2005), that doesn't mean that the one's career who continued should be completely ignored because the other one didn't have a chance to fulfill his career in those years.

Of course not. But that doesn't make it fair to Eddie, now does it? Eddie Guerrero died in 2005. In other words, there was no way for Eddie to continue building his legacy. Whatever he achieved at that point in time was all he will ever get. Chris Jericho on the other hand, still has the chance to build a greater legacy.

But see, when Chris Jericho left in 2005, his legacy wasn't as phenomenal as it is now. Chris Jericho's sky rocket to The best in the world wasn't achieved until half way his return in 2008---the time when most, if not all, began to go with the idea that Chirs Jericho could do anything. Now where is Eddie in all this? Oh yea, he's dead.

Therefore, this is exactly why I am saying if you were to compare Eddie Guerrero's legacy to Chris Jericho's, it isn't fair for Eddie to compare him to Chris Jericho as how he is now because Eddie'd legacy, by default, stopped growing in 2005. Whereas Chris's didn't.

Imagine a hypthtical situation: It is 2005 and Chris Jericho has quit wrestling. To the same time (few months later), Eddie dies. Based on that, who has the bigger legacy then? The answer is Eddie Guerrero.

Besides, if Chris Jericho would've stuck around alongside a living Eddie from 2005 -> now, Chris would still have the better legacy. Because while they both would've continued to tear down the house, Chris would most likely have been the one who continued to return into major feuds and world title reigns. Where as Eddie, while he might have accomplished getting title reigns once again and all that, I doubt it would've been in the same manner of Jericho.

This is also rather arguable. There is no way to tell what would have actually hapened if both had not departed in 2005. Chances are Chris Jericho wouldn't have been so great. On the other hand, chances are Eddie could have possibly turned out the way you are picturing it. My opinion is that both Eddie and Jericho would have had a somewhat simliar path to each other. Now, if we were to compare these [hypothethical] legacies...Eddie wins

You're turn pal...

 

[Ferbian]

I bolded the "wrestling industry" part because when you said that, you should really only be reffering to WWE/F. In WCW, Chris Jericho, more or less, was at the same status of Eddie Guerrero. Both were very popular, yet a bit under-exposed. Sure Chris had more more titles (2 to be exact) than Eddie, but, again, more or less the same.

You're taking it out of context mate. I'm saying that Chris Jericho has defeated the who's who of the wrestling industry even back when he was wrestling in Japan for one. He feuded with Ultimo Dragon and that very feud is what got him noticed and hired in ECW, hell even WCW. ECW where he got insanely over due to his past and wrestled more or less every top talent the promotion had to offer during his time. Also, he debuted with suplexing Taz, the "unsuplexable" suplex machine.

And sure Eddie had his great moments as well. Some great matches all around the world, I especially remember a very very firm match with 2 Cold Scorpio. However, he was never truly the top dog, the guy that actually got featured doing big things. Chris Jericho were.

And before I forget. Chris Jericho was hired by Eric Bischoff to be one of the top guys of the WCW cruiserweight division. Eddie weren't.

But I want you to take a look outside of these two territories (WCW/WWF). In ECW, Eddie was clearly the more accomplished (at least from what I can remember). Not to mention, he was a heck of a lot more popular than Chris Jericho. And if we are talking titles, Eddie held the ECW television title one more time than Jericho. Now lets go a bit further into the whole world (i.e. non-US territory). Take a good look at Eddie's accomplishes, now compare them to Chris's. Who has more? Clearly, Eddie. Whether it be because Eddie was in more wrestling companies than Jericho, it really doesn't matter because Eddie became more exposed to the world than Chris Jericho did---Thus, generating a bigger legacy.

Actually, outside of the United States territories of wrestling, Eddie Guerrero held 3 titles.. Chris Jericho? 7 titles. So even before that Chris Jericho were the more accomplished one.

Now Eddie was great and all that, but I think a lot of his legacy and his popularity in the independent scene before making it big was due to the big legacy of his father Gory Guerrero.

Well this one is clearly arguable. Eddie's matches compared to Chris's matches are clearly based on opinion. While I [obviously] find Eddie Guerrero's matches more entertaining, another person wouldn't. However, the fact that both are extremely talented wrestlers cannot be denied as clearly both men tended to tear the roof down. If you don't mind, I would rather we agree to disagree on this one. Or unless you want to compare matches and wrestling moves they used---which is fine with me.

The paragraph merely states that neither one of them can truly get a victory based on match quality. Because both were great wrestlers, who could make their opponents look like gold.

Also, comparing wrestling moves would be irrelevant due to the fact that they have used such a wide array of moves throughout their career. And lost / added moves as time went by and they got to new promotions.

Of course not. But that doesn't make it fair to Eddie, now does it? Eddie Guerrero died in 2005. In other words, there was no way for Eddie to continue building his legacy. Whatever he achieved at that point in time was all he will ever get. Chris Jericho on the other hand, still has the chance to build a greater legacy.

Sure it does. Why wouldn't it? Just because one of the talents has a longer career the comparison of the two legacies doesn't have to be smacked right into the position of comparing from start date to stop date.

But see, when Chris Jericho left in 2005, his legacy wasn't as phenomenal as it is now. Chris Jericho's sky rocket to The best in the world wasn't achieved until half way his return in 2008---the time when most, if not all, began to go with the idea that Chirs Jericho could do anything. Now where is Eddie in all this? Oh yea, he's dead.

Sure his legacy was more than enough to warrant him a Hall of Fame induction. And most likely a bigger one than Eddie Guerrero, but of course that can be argued. But Chris Jericho's accomplishments just exceeds Eddie Guerrero's. Especially if we were purely gonna base it on the same things that WWE bases their inductions on.

Therefore, this is exactly why I am saying if you were to compare Eddie Guerrero's legacy to Chris Jericho's, it isn't fair for Eddie to compare him to Chris Jericho as how he is now because Eddie'd legacy, by default, stopped growing in 2005. Whereas Chris's didn't.

Then how about we take away the 3 years prior that Eddie Guerrero debuted, as well as the many many years he spend as a kid training and wrestling Chavo? Should be more than enough to build some of his legacy because of the many years he has been exposed to the business, as well as more or less being in the business in general.

Imagine a hypthtical situation: It is 2005 and Chris Jericho has quit wrestling. To the same time (few months later), Eddie dies. Based on that, who has the bigger legacy then? The answer is Eddie Guerrero.

But that's where you're wrong. The answer is Chris Jericho.

This is also rather arguable. There is no way to tell what would have actually hapened if both had not departed in 2005. Chances are Chris Jericho wouldn't have been so great. On the other hand, chances are Eddie could have possibly turned out the way you are picturing it. My opinion is that both Eddie and Jericho would have had a somewhat simliar path to each other. Now, if we were to compare these [hypothethical] legacies...Eddie wins

I fail to see how Chris Jericho could not have been as great. He would've still been actively exposed to the wrestling business. It's not like he went on and trained constantly during those years. Matter of a fact he went touring with Fozzy and didn't even watch wrestling till the day around Wrestlemania 23, at least if we're to trust Jericho's word.

Chris Jericho would've still been around as one of the huge stars, and sure Eddie would as well. But both being actively present and Chris from 2005 already having the bigger legacy would mean that both would've continued to build their legacies, but Chris would've ultimately been in the lead all along.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

God damn you Ferbs, I hate you. Making me choose between my two favourite wrestlers

This is going to be tough. So I came up with 5 categories to choose between the two.

Background/Global Appeal:
Both men wrestled across continents as well as through the big three companies in the United States. There global exposure is immense and both have come from a strong background. Jericho with the Hart Family Dungeon and Eddie simply being a member of Mexico's first family of wrestling. When it comes down to it I'd have to give a slight edge to Guerrero in that respect due to his heritage.

Success:
In terms of success, it's hard to argue with both resume's. Eddie is a former WWE Champion as well as a multiple time tag team champion in AAA & WWE, being a part of two great Teams (With Art Barr & in Los Guerrero's with Chavo Jr.) and winning countless midcard belts. Jericho on the other hand is a multiple time World Champion, also being the first Undisputed Champion, Multiple Midcard Titles (Including being a record setting 9 Time Intercontinental Champion) and Multiple Tag Team Championships. In this category I give Jericho the advantage.

Match Quality:
In terms of match quality, it's really difficult to separate these two. Eddie had some phenomenal matches with Dean Malenko in ECW & WCW. His matches with Kurt Angle are fabulous as is his series with JBL over the WWE Championship. Hell, Eddie could get a good match out of pretty much anyone. Jericho has the same thing. He's had some great matches with Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Chris Benoit, The Rock and many more. I find this incredibly difficult to chose between but when push comes to shove Jericho snips just ahead.

Entertainment Value:
In terms of entertainment value again they're both really amazing performers. Jericho can be great as a heel or face, making you despise him or want to have a drink with him. He comes across well ion both versions. Eddie also had that ability. He was incredibly entertaining whether he be face or heel. His gimmick was something that fit him like a glove and really just added to him. Again this is difficult but I'm going to give Eddie the edge here.

Impact:
And this is really what it all boils down to. Who has had the bigger impact on wrestling. Jericho has left a distinct imprint on wrestling that will people remember him. He's got something of a niche in the wrestling market. On the other side is Eddie who is possibly the best remembered Latino Wrestler in Mainstream Wrestling, and that's saying something. Eddie's Death also contributes a lot to propelling him as an incredibly popular performer. But Jericho isn't done just yet. We'll just have to wait and see what Jericho does to finish off his career.

At the moment I'm going to say Eddie Guerrero BUT that could change with the years ahead.

 

[RJJ]

Wow a tough one. Both of them are great in the ring, and they both has great characteres. I'll go with Y2J, because he was main evented a lot more than eddie, i believe. Also, he's the first ever undisputed champion, beating rock and austin in one night.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

You're taking it out of context mate. I'm saying that Chris Jericho has defeated the who's who of the wrestling industry

I know what you’re saying dude. But the thing is, Eddie has also defeated a good number of the who’s who in the wrestling industry. Actually, even more so, as Eddie has traveled more abroad than Chris Jericho. Or unless you are referring to only WWF/E guys which in that case, you shouldn’t say the wrestling industry, you should be saying WWE/F.

even back when he was wrestling in Japan for one. He feuded with Ultimo Dragon and that very feud is what got him noticed and hired in ECW, hell even WCW. ECW where he got insanely over due to his past and wrestled more or less every top talent the promotion had to offer during his time. Also, he debuted with suplexing Taz, the "unsuplexable" suplex machine.

Yes, I remember seeing that feud. Though while that feud was epic, you can’t forget the person who introduced Chris Jericho to ECW (Paul Heyman to be specific) was actually Chris Benoit.

Though in contrast, Eddie was also extremely over in ECW. Hell, even more so than Jericho. Let’s not forget the series of epic bouts between Eddie and Dean Malenko. When these two men started in ECW, it was one of the first times that any fan of ECW was introduced to Eddie’s and Dean’s unique style of wrestling (i.e. lucha libre/Mexican style). It drew a great amount of attention from the fans causing them to both get extremely over. Henceforth, the alleged chanting of “please don’t go” when Eddie and Malenko were leaving for WCW.

But let’s go a bit outside of ECW. I want to bring you to the attention of Mexico---the place that began the legacy of Eddie Guerrero. Eddie Guerrero was born to the legendary family, the Guerreros. Eddie drew much attention in Mexico. From wrestling with Chavo in-between matches to becoming what became known as the “most hated tag-team in lucha libre history”, and all the epic feuds in between, As well as all the fueds he had afterwards, Eddie became an icon to the Mexican people. Everyone knew him; they knew how great he was; he was truly a legend to behold. Whereas Jericho…not really.

And sure Eddie had his great moments as well. Some great matches all around the world, I especially remember a very very firm match with 2 Cold Scorpio. However, he was never truly the top dog, the guy that actually got featured doing big things. Chris Jericho were.

Again, more or less referring to US territory, not the world. In paces other than WWE/F, Eddie faced a good number of top dogs as well, if not more. Sure most of them were probably from Mexico, but even still, they were considered top dogs. Ever heard of El Hijo Del Santo (legend in Mexico)? Yea, Eddie’s defeated him numerous times.

Also, yes, I loved that match also (then again, I love almost all of Eddie’s matches). But I believe the reason Jericho was featured doing more, or rather looking like the top dog was mainly due to Eddie being of Hispanic/Latino decent. Don’t get me wrong, I am not discriminating or anything like that, but just think… How many Hispanic/Latinos have ever made it far in a [US] wrestling business? Not many. In fact, Eddie is practically at the top of the list, if I’m not mistaken. On the other hand, you have Chris Jericho---a Canadian---Someone who which the white culture would relate more to. The 90’s were different times back then, my friend. People weren’t as accepting to non-white races as they are now.

And before I forget. Chris Jericho was hired by Eric Bischoff to be one of the top guys of the WCW cruiserweight division. Eddie weren't.

Eddie was hired by Paul Heyman because of how talented he was; Paul Heyman practically pleaded for him. Chris Jericho weren’t

Actually, outside of the United States territories of wrestling, Eddie Guerrero held 3 titles.. Chris Jericho? 7 titles. So even before that Chris Jericho were the more accomplished one.

Actually, Eddie had 7 titles, just like Chris. But check this out… The 7 titles that Jericho achieved came from 4 non-US companies. Whereas Eddie’s 7 titles came from 6 non-US companies. In other words, giving Eddie a better chance ot be exposed to the world. Thus, being able to generate a bigger legacy throughout the overall world.

Now Eddie was great and all that, but I think a lot of his legacy and his popularity in the independent scene before making it big was due to the big legacy of his father Gory Guerrero.

Not really. It certainly could be the reason why people payed such close attention to him in Mexico when he started. But his legacy was established because of his passion for wrestling. Even as a kid, his little wrestling matches with Chavo proved to the audience that Eddie would make it far in the wrestling business. Which he did. Eddie’s legacy has been built soley on him being such a great wrestler and his passion towards it, along with how constantly over he was with the crowd.

The paragraph merely states that neither one of them can truly get a victory based on match quality. Because both were great wrestlers, who could make their opponents look like gold.

Also, comparing wrestling moves would be irrelevant due to the fact that they have used such a wide array of moves throughout their career. And lost / added moves as time went by and they got to new promotions.

Yes, I am well aware of that. Which is why I think it’s best to agree to disagree on their in-ring ability because both have phenomenal wrestling skills that really can’t be compared to each other because the outcome will only be a result of preference. As for the last statement I made on the previous post, it was merely if you wanted to do it for fun, say comparing Walls of Jericho to the Texas Clover leaf (I think that’s what it was called). But nah, let’s not do that. Let’s just continue with what we’re doing.

Sure it does. Why wouldn't it? Just because one of the talents has a longer career the comparison of the two legacies doesn't have to be smacked right into the position of comparing from start date to stop date.

Yea, but Eddie died; making it unfair for the two to be compared with what Jericho has built now (2010) to what Eddie stopped building in (2005).

Sure his legacy was more than enough to warrant him a Hall of Fame induction. And most likely a bigger one than Eddie Guerrero, but of course that can be argued.

That is arguable; I disagree with it.

But Chris Jericho's accomplishments just exceeds Eddie Guerrero's. Especially if we were purely gonna base it on the same things that WWE bases their inductions on.

If we are talking accomplishes in WWE [in specific], than I have no argue because it is obvious Chris held more titles than Eddie did. However, what I tried to say in that quote was that Chris Jericho’s recognition to the best in the world wasn’t achieved until his 2008 return. In other words, before this time, he wasn’t nearly as great as he turned out to be now.

Then how about we take away the 3 years prior that Eddie Guerrero debuted, as well as the many many years he spend as a kid training and wrestling Chavo? Should be more than enough to build some of his legacy because of the many years he has been exposed to the business, as well as more or less being in the business in general.

Interesting point. Though, the difference is that Jericho was alive throughout that time. On the other hand, past 2005, Eddie is not. Think of it this way, “It’s one thing to take out the beginning, but it’s a whole bigger thing to take out the prime (end) of another.” This is exactly what Eddie didn’t get the chance to have---a true endind/climax. On the other hand, Jericho still has a chance for that.

But that's where you're wrong. The answer is Chris Jericho.

No. That’s where I’m right. Basing a comparison between Jericho and Eddie [2005 and down], Eddie has the bigger legacy.

I fail to see how Chris Jericho could not have been as great. He would've still been actively exposed to the wrestling business. It's not like he went on and trained constantly during those years. Matter of a fact he went touring with Fozzy and didn't even watch wrestling till the day around Wrestlemania 23, at least if we're to trust Jericho's word.

He wouldn’t have been so great because had he not left in 2005, he would never had had that spectacular return in 2008---the one where just about everyone marked out for. The one that made people start to believe that Jericho was the best in the world. The one that made people realize that Jericho could do just about anything there was to do in the wrestling business. The one that put Jericho as one of the very best ever.

Sure, people would have continued to recognize Jericho as a great guy, but the chances of people seeing him the same as they do now would be different. Cause and Effect, dude. Cause and Effect…

Chris Jericho would've still been around as one of the huge stars, and sure Eddie would as well. But both being actively present and Chris from 2005 already having the bigger legacy would mean that both would've continued to build their legacies, but Chris would've ultimately been in the lead all along.

Nope. 2005 and down is Eddie’s territory---he had the bigger legacy than.

I think the issue here is that your vision of legacy is a bit different than from what it is supposed to be. The legacy one achieves is usually based upon how great they were and how well their reputation came across people, as well as the accomplishes that they made along the way. Now look at it as a whole [from 2005 and down], Eddie wins the title of having the bigger legacy, dude.

 

[Ferbian]

I know what you’re saying dude. But the thing is, Eddie has also defeated a good number of the who’s who in the wrestling industry. Actually, even more so, as Eddie has traveled more abroad than Chris Jericho. Or unless you are referring to only WWF/E guys which in that case, you shouldn’t say the wrestling industry, you should be saying WWE/F.

I never only referred to WWF guys. Chris Jericho himself listed a huge list of wrestlers that he has wrestled (and the majority defeated) from all around the world some weeks ago.

Yes, I remember seeing that feud. Though while that feud was epic, you can’t forget the person who introduced Chris Jericho to ECW (Paul Heyman to be specific) was actually Chris Benoit.

So just because one person noticed Chris and hinted him to Paul Heyman it ruins it for his importance and the fact that he got hugely over with the ECW fans more or less instantly?

Though in contrast, Eddie was also extremely over in ECW. Hell, even more so than Jericho. Let’s not forget the series of epic bouts between Eddie and Dean Malenko. When these two men started in ECW, it was one of the first times that any fan of ECW was introduced to Eddie’s and Dean’s unique style of wrestling (i.e. lucha libre/Mexican style). It drew a great amount of attention from the fans causing them to both get extremely over. Henceforth, the alleged chanting of “please don’t go” when Eddie and Malenko were leaving for WCW.

Yes I remember those as well. However, you cannot forget the fact that Chris Jericho wrestled the Lucha Libre style of wrestling as well. Ever since his time with Mexico.

Also, the attention that Chris Jericho garnered within ECW was the very thing that more or less instantly got him a WCW job when he met Eric Bischoff.

But let’s go a bit outside of ECW. I want to bring you to the attention of Mexico---the place that began the legacy of Eddie Guerrero. Eddie Guerrero was born to the legendary family, the Guerreros. Eddie drew much attention in Mexico. From wrestling with Chavo in-between matches to becoming what became known as the “most hated tag-team in lucha libre history”, and all the epic feuds in between, As well as all the fueds he had afterwards, Eddie became an icon to the Mexican people. Everyone knew him; they knew how great he was; he was truly a legend to behold. Whereas Jericho…not really.

Yet your failing to realize that Chris Jericho was a big star in Mexico just as well. He might not specifically be a legend down there. But he was definitely noticed. Like you and I talked about over PM there's current WWE superstars that actually began noticing and being fans of Chris Jericho during his time in Mexico.

Again, more or less referring to US territory, not the world. In paces other than WWE/F, Eddie faced a good number of top dogs as well, if not more. Sure most of them were probably from Mexico, but even still, they were considered top dogs. Ever heard of El Hijo Del Santo (legend in Mexico)? Yea, Eddie’s defeated him numerous times.

Which is where you can counter the Japanese legend in Ultimo Dragon who Chris Jericho defeated his share of times as well.

Besides, beating top dogs merely in WCW and WWE who are more or less world wide companies should really warrant for a "around the world" top dog beating. Also, just because they were only top dogs in the United States (If we stick to that argument) doesn't make it any less special.

Also, yes, I loved that match also (then again, I love almost all of Eddie’s matches). But I believe the reason Jericho was featured doing more, or rather looking like the top dog was mainly due to Eddie being of Hispanic/Latino decent. Don’t get me wrong, I am not discriminating or anything like that, but just think… How many Hispanic/Latinos have ever made it far in a [US] wrestling business? Not many. In fact, Eddie is practically at the top of the list, if I’m not mistaken. On the other hand, you have Chris Jericho---a Canadian---Someone who which the white culture would relate more to. The 90’s were different times back then, my friend. People weren’t as accepting to non-white races as they are now.

I know you're not discriminating. But you're giving an awful reason to why Eddie Guerrero wouldn't be featured doing big things. Especially considering the talent he had, as well as how over he was. There were many other successful African Americans, Japanese and Latino wrestlers who have managed to become huge stars with huge legacies as well as world champions all-around. Why would they start holding down a second generation wrestler from the Guerrero family of all families?

Eddie was hired by Paul Heyman because of how talented he was; Paul Heyman practically pleaded for him. Chris Jericho weren’t

Yet Chris Jericho were still the one to make an impact when he got hired. He was still the one who got insanely over in the matter of weeks.

Actually, Eddie had 7 titles, just like Chris. But check this out… The 7 titles that Jericho achieved came from 4 non-US companies. Whereas Eddie’s 7 titles came from 6 non-US companies. In other words, giving Eddie a better chance ot be exposed to the world. Thus, being able to generate a bigger legacy throughout the overall world.

No he didn't. Eddie Guerrero was a 5 times champion outside of the United States. (1x AAA world tag team champion, 1x LAWA heavyweight champion, 1x NJPW Junior Heavyweight Super Grade Tag League Champion, 1 time WWA welterweight champion, 1x WWA trios champion).

Also, just because he was more widespread with less championships wouldn't mean that it makes him superior to Chris Jericho's widespread. Especially considering the fact that he were more successful in the companies he stuck around with. Getting a larger fanbase with those companies to garner the popularity to move on easier.

Not really. It certainly could be the reason why people payed such close attention to him in Mexico when he started. But his legacy was established because of his passion for wrestling. Even as a kid, his little wrestling matches with Chavo proved to the audience that Eddie would make it far in the wrestling business. Which he did. Eddie’s legacy has been built soley on him being such a great wrestler and his passion towards it, along with how constantly over he was with the crowd.

Oh and Chris Jericho didn't have a passion?

Chris Jericho, the very guy that I believe once wrestled at a kid's birthday party for the sake of getting paid and still put on a hell of a show. As well as the guy that would travel around the world wrestling even if his mother was sick, because it was what he wanted to do? The guy that wrestled about 3-4 shows a day in Mexico? No passion?

Yes, I am well aware of that. Which is why I think it’s best to agree to disagree on their in-ring ability because both have phenomenal wrestling skills that really can’t be compared to each other because the outcome will only be a result of preference. As for the last statement I made on the previous post, it was merely if you wanted to do it for fun, say comparing Walls of Jericho to the Texas Clover leaf (I think that’s what it was called). But nah, let’s not do that. Let’s just continue with what we’re doing.

Their in-ring ability doesn't really do much for their legacies either way. Hulk Hogan's legacy trumps Eddie and Chris Jericho's. And we both know how many moves Hogan knew.

Yea, but Eddie died; making it unfair for the two to be compared with what Jericho has built now (2010) to what Eddie stopped building in (2005).

Still doesn't make it fair for Chris Jericho to have to end his legacy building the very moment that Eddie Guerrero died.

If we are talking accomplishes in WWE [in specific], than I have no argue because it is obvious Chris held more titles than Eddie did. However, what I tried to say in that quote was that Chris Jericho’s recognition to the best in the world wasn’t achieved until his 2008 return. In other words, before this time, he wasn’t nearly as great as he turned out to be now.

Chris Jericho could still very well be argued as one of the best wrestlers in the world even back in the early 2000's. Chris didn't exactly get better during his time of absence. He merely changed his gimmick to one that told people he was the best in the world. The very thing that he could've said from the get go.

Interesting point. Though, the difference is that Jericho was alive throughout that time. On the other hand, past 2005, Eddie is not. Think of it this way, “It’s one thing to take out the beginning, but it’s a whole bigger thing to take out the prime (end) of another.” This is exactly what Eddie didn’t get the chance to have---a true endind/climax. On the other hand, Jericho still has a chance for that.

Then how about we argue the fact that Chris Jericho didn't have any possibility of starting to train until he was 19 because the Hart wrestling school didn't allow him in? But Eddie Guerrero more or less had free access to the training of a legend. That would once again bring him to the point where he simply had more years to build his legacy which we should automatically discredit by now.

No. That’s where I’m right. Basing a comparison between Jericho and Eddie [2005 and down], Eddie has the bigger legacy.

I'm sure this paragraph will become more or less a "No I'm right you're wrong". So let's just end this one there.

He wouldn’t have been so great because had he not left in 2005, he would never had had that spectacular return in 2008---the one where just about everyone marked out for. The one that made people start to believe that Jericho was the best in the world. The one that made people realize that Jericho could do just about anything there was to do in the wrestling business. The one that put Jericho as one of the very best ever.

Who gives a damn about the spectacular return? It didn't make him better in any way. Chris Jericho had the superstar in him from the very beginning. Chris Jericho was just that damn good from the very beginning. Why would he need a big return to prove to the world that he was just quite simply superior? Chris Jericho returned as Y2J once again. Later on he became Chris Jericho the condescending asshole.

So to say that Chris Jericho's return is what made him great is bullshit. His turn of moniker is what made him great, and it could've very well been done in 2006 or 2007 if WWE wanted to turn him had he been around.

I think the issue here is that your vision of legacy is a bit different than from what it is supposed to be. The legacy one achieves is usually based upon how great they were and how well their reputation came across people, as well as the accomplishes that they made along the way. Now look at it as a whole [from 2005 and down], Eddie wins the title of having the bigger legacy, dude.

And Chris Jericho weren't great from 2005 down? Chris Jericho didn't have a huge reputation as a big superstar that more or less any promotion would die to have? Sure Eddie Guerrero had that as well, but Chris Jericho was the one that had proved that he could more or less do anything in terms of card placement and great matches to enhance talents etc. (Yes he even did that back before he left in 2005, remember John Cena?)

 

[Dave]

The better legacy? Hmm! That is a tough one to call.

As harsh as it sounds, Eddie probably commands a better legacy simply because he is dead. Without going into it too much, I would say that his death has increased the sentiment of which people think about him. Sure, he was a great journeyman wrestler who knew how to hook a crowd from the first word he uttered but there is simply no denying that his death has put him into a whole new stratosphere with wrestling fans. He had all the talent to be a really successful wrestler and many would argue that he accomplished it all. However, when I think about what he could have done with his career, I think that he still had a lot to accomplish, which cannot be said about Jericho.

Eddie was a WWE Champion and that really did mean a lot to him. I remember seeing WrestleMania 20 and feeling the emotion of the moment when Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero were celebrating in the ring. Both of these men had finally reached the top of the mountain and had sincerely deserved it. That being said, Chris Jericho has accomplished everything in the WWE. He is a multi-time WWE Champion and a multi-time World Heavyweight Champion. Not only that but he was also the first Unified WWE Champion, which no one will ever be able to match. He is also one of the most, if not the, most successful Intercontinental Champions to ever hold the belt.

Both of these guys were credits to the business but I think that Jericho has the bigger legacy at his command simply due to the fact that he has accomplished a lot more. You could argue that Eddie Guerrero was better in the ring but Jericho is no slouch either. He has combined the styles of all sorts of wresting and has become an entity all to himself. Both of them were and are great competitors but I believe Jericho to have the bigger legacy.

 

[Coco]

Eddie Guerrero. With absolute ease. Eddie and Rey did a lot to help build WWE's growing Hispanic audience on the blue brand in 2004 and 2005. They were an essential part in the growth of WWE's audience over the last decade and are often overlooked as having such impact. However, they did. Chris Jericho, on the other hand, has made no such lasting impact on the business side of things. Jericho might have a deeper and lengthier body of work at a higher level in the WWE, but that's about all he has going for him. Unfortunately, it seems that's all he really needs to solicit the support of most in this poll. A shame. The true legacy of Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio gets the shaft yet again.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Somebody let me know when Ferbian and Mister Awesome are done flirting and have taken the next step into a dedicated relationship...

I think it's hilarious that one of the most common phrases on these forums is "without a doubt" or "Well it's obviously...." or something to that effect. Everybody always starts their post with a statement like "______ is the obvious choice" or "_____ is by far better." Let's be real here....your opinions don't resolve into absolute fact once stated on the internet. You could say "John Cena is the best pure athlete in WWE history WITHOUT A DOUBT" and believe it with all your heart. It doesn't make it true. Eddie Guerrero and Chris Jericho were/are fantastic athletes that will both be in the Hall of Fame. They both wrestled around the world, both held World Titles, and both have great legacies. Now, I still think Jericho is the better choice, but that doesn't mean somebody couldn't make a good case for why Guerrero had a better legacy.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

I never only referred to WWF guys. Chris Jericho himself listed a huge list of wrestlers that he has wrestled (and the majority defeated) from all around the world some weeks ago.

Yea, but so did Eddie. Probably even more so than Chris Jericho. The simple reason is because Eddie has spread himself wider to the wrestling world than Chris Jericho has. Thus, causing him to get more exposure and ultimately be able to build a greater legacy.

So just because one person noticed Chris and hinted him to Paul Heyman it ruins it for his importance and the fact that he got hugely over with the ECW fans more or less instantly?

No. But you said the reason Jericho was introduced into ECW was because of how insanely over he was. Fact is, Chris Benoit introduced him to Paul Heyman; meaning had he never been introduced him, Chris Jericho might have spent a bit longer in Mexico [or wherever it was that je was in].

Yes I remember those as well. However, you cannot forget the fact that Chris Jericho wrestled the Lucha Libre style of wrestling as well. Ever since his time with Mexico.

Of course I didn't forget. However, when you're talking lucha libre style of wrestling, Eddie clearly owned Jericho. And since he was a good deal amount better, it's only logical that the ECW fans took more of a "DAMN! WTF!" to Eddie (and Malenko) than they did to Jericho.

Also, the attention that Chris Jericho garnered within ECW was the very thing that more or less instantly got him a WCW job when he met Eric Bischoff.

That's very true. But it still goes without saying, Eddie made a bigger impact on ECW than Jericho did.

Also, before I forget, Eddie was just as easily an impact on WCW as much as Eddie was. Though he did start without much in the cruiser-weight division, he built himself up to the top with great support of the fans and his wrestling ability ofcourse.

Yet your failing to realize that Chris Jericho was a big star in Mexico just as well. He might not specifically be a legend down there. But he was definitely noticed. Like you and I talked about over PM there's current WWE superstars that actually began noticing and being fans of Chris Jericho during his time in Mexico.

No, I am not failing to notice that Jericho was a big star in Mexico---Sure he was. But you can't compare how big of a legend Eddie turned out to be in Mexico to how big Jericho was. Whether it be because he was son of the great Gory Guerrero or because of how extrelmely talented and over he was, Eddie Guerrero definately was better than Jericho [in Mexico].

Also, Eddie influenced a good number of his fans and wrestlers as well (this feels like Deja-vu).

Which is where you can counter the Japanese legend in Ultimo Dragon who Chris Jericho defeated his share of times as well.

To be fair, Eddie has also defeated Ultimo Dragon in the past.

Besides, beating top dogs merely in WCW and WWE who are more or less world wide companies should really warrant for a "around the world" top dog beating.

No it shouldn't. It should warrant for beating the top guys in the US---not the world. A simple example can be El Hijo Del Santo. This guys is considered to be a great legend in Mexio, yet he was no where near US territory wrestling companies. And Eddie has defeated him numerous times as well as proven to be better than he was.

Also, just because they were only top dogs in the United States (If we stick to that argument) doesn't make it any less special.

When we are comparing legacies, YES it does. The reason is because Chris Jericho's oh so great legacy would only have been buit FROM the United States. In contrast, Eddie has defeated the top dogs all over the world. In other words, Chris Jericho isn't as special when compared to Eddie [based on the world].

I know you're not discriminating. But you're giving an awful reason to why Eddie Guerrero wouldn't be featured doing big things. Especially considering the talent he had, as well as how over he was. There were many other successful African Americans, Japanese and Latino wrestlers who have managed to become huge stars with huge legacies as well as world champions all-around. Why would they start holding down a second generation wrestler from the Guerrero family of all families?

Because the 90's were a different time? As were the 80's? and 70's? and 60's? Look dude, I am not saying that ALL non-whites were held back. I'm saying that generally speaking, white folk tended to be the greater race when we are talking about place like WWE [in those times]. (Again, not discriminating)

Yet Chris Jericho were still the one to make an impact when he got hired. He was still the one who got insanely over in the matter of weeks.

Yes that is very true. But again, in WWF---not the world.

No he didn't. Eddie Guerrero was a 5 times champion outside of the United States. (1x AAA world tag team champion, 1x LAWA heavyweight champion, 1x NJPW Junior Heavyweight Super Grade Tag League Champion, 1 time WWA welterweight champion, 1x WWA trios champion).

You forgot: IWA Mid-South Heavyweight Championship. Yea that makes 6---just like I said.

Also, just because he was more widespread with less championships wouldn't mean that it makes him superior to Chris Jericho's widespread. Especially considering the fact that he were more successful in the companies he stuck around with. Getting a larger fanbase with those companies to garner the popularity to move on easier.

You and I know that was a poor choice of words. Eddie clearly had a bigger fan base [throughout the world]. And yes, it does make Eddie superior because he got the ability to have more exposure than Jericho.

Oh and Chris Jericho didn't have a passion?

Chris Jericho, the very guy that I believe once wrestled at a kid's birthday party for the sake of getting paid and still put on a hell of a show. As well as the guy that would travel around the world wrestling even if his mother was sick, because it was what he wanted to do? The guy that wrestled about 3-4 shows a day in Mexico? No passion?

I never said that, Ferbs. I was only stating Eddie's heart felt passion towards wrestling.

Their in-ring ability doesn't really do much for their legacies either way. Hulk Hogan's legacy trumps Eddie and Chris Jericho's. And we both know how many moves Hogan knew.

Lulz. Yup. So let's just avoid their in-ring ability.

Still doesn't make it fair for Chris Jericho to have to end his legacy building the very moment that Eddie Guerrero died.

No it's totally fair. Why? Because that's when Eddie died. Eddie can't build a greater legacy anymore---yet Jericho can...and he did.

Chris Jericho could still very well be argued as one of the best wrestlers in the world even back in the early 2000's. Chris didn't exactly get better during his time of absence. He merely changed his gimmick to one that told people he was the best in the world. The very thing that he could've said from the get go.

Not really no. I'm not going to give another explanaition because everything I've said in the past should be sufficient enough for me to prove you wrong.

Then how about we argue the fact that Chris Jericho didn't have any possibility of starting to train until he was 19 because the Hart wrestling school didn't allow him in? But Eddie Guerrero more or less had free access to the training of a legend.

Which is why roughly 15% of the reason Eddie had a greater legacy than Jericho did [based on 2005 and down]. Eddie simply had the bigger build. Get it?

That would once again bring him to the point where he simply had more years to build his legacy which we should automatically discredit by now.

No we shouldn't because my argument is that based on 2005 and down, Eddie had the bigger legacy, which, you yourself is starting to prove that I am right, and you are wrong.

I'm sure this paragraph will become more or less a "No I'm right you're wrong". So let's just end this one there.

I'm kicking your ass.

Who gives a damn about the spectacular return? It didn't make him better in any way. Chris Jericho had the superstar in him from the very beginning. Chris Jericho was just that damn good from the very beginning. Why would he need a big return to prove to the world that he was just quite simply superior? Chris Jericho returned as Y2J once again. Later on he became Chris Jericho the condescending asshole.

The simple reason here is because Jericho made such a big impact on his return. It litterally just shocked the entire WWE fan base. Everyone had believed that we had seen the end of Jericho back in 2005 (some did think he would return but that's beside the point). But when he returned, it made people start to believe that Jericho could do just about anything in the wrestling business. Over time (after 2008), Jericho proved time and time again how great he was and that he was just fucking amazing. Now had this never happened, the possibility of people thinking the same [about Jericho] would be greatly decreased.

So to say that Chris Jericho's return is what made him great is bullshit. His turn of moniker is what made him great, and it could've very well been done in 2006 or 2007 if WWE wanted to turn him had he been around.

No it's not bullshit---it's logic. Had he returned in 2006 or 2007, it would not have been as great as him returning in 2008. Things would have probably turned out different. Then again, all this is just specualtion.

And Chris Jericho weren't great from 2005 down? Chris Jericho didn't have a huge reputation as a big superstar that more or less any promotion would die to have? Sure Eddie Guerrero had that as well, but Chris Jericho was the one that had proved that he could more or less do anything in terms of card placement and great matches to enhance talents etc. (Yes he even did that back before he left in 2005, remember John Cena?)

Yea and remember how Cena kicked his ass and Jericho left like a whiney bitch?

Listen, Ferbs. Jericho WAS phenomenal 2005 and down. I'm not saying he was'nt. But the fact of the matter is, 2005 and down is Eddie's territory---not Chirs. If we are talking 2010 Chris Jericho to 2005 Eddie, then that is a totally different story---In this one, Jericho obviously has the greater legacy.

Somebody let me know when Ferbian and Mister Awesome are done flirting and have taken the next step into a dedicated relationship...

Fuck off.

 

[Ferbian]

Yea, but so did Eddie. Probably even more so than Chris Jericho. The simple reason is because Eddie has spread himself wider to the wrestling world than Chris Jericho has. Thus, causing him to get more exposure and ultimately be able to build a greater legacy.

And do tell me how exactly Eddie Guerrero spreaded himself wider in the wrestling world? He might have wrestled in other promotions or more promotions. But Chris Jericho have wrestled in a bigger amount of different countries with different promotions.

No. But you said the reason Jericho was introduced into ECW was because of how insanely over he was. Fact is, Chris Benoit introduced him to Paul Heyman; meaning had he never been introduced him, Chris Jericho might have spent a bit longer in Mexico [or wherever it was that je was in].

I never said because of how insanely over he was. I said he became insanely over after a short period of time. He was introduced to ECW because he was a good wrestler and a good worker.

Also, Chris Jericho wrestled in Japan before he went to ECW.

Of course I didn't forget. However, when you're talking lucha libre style of wrestling, Eddie clearly owned Jericho. And since he was a good deal amount better, it's only logical that the ECW fans took more of a "DAMN! WTF!" to Eddie (and Malenko) than they did to Jericho.

He really didn't no. Eddie Guerrero was high flying we get that. But so was Chris Jericho. Both of them wrestled very well with the Lucha Libre style. But I really wouldn't call Eddie a Lucha Libre wrestler, as much as I would've called him a high flyer with mat wrestling influencing his moveset.

That's very true. But it still goes without saying, Eddie made a bigger impact on ECW than Jericho did.

That's arguable. Eddie Guerrero wrestled some fine matches, and had a fairly decent ECW career. However, it was Chris Jericho who had a big impact like the Suplexing of Taz, the matches with Foley etc.

Also, before I forget, Eddie was just as easily an impact on WCW as much as Eddie was. Though he did start without much in the cruiser-weight division, he built himself up to the top with great support of the fans and his wrestling ability ofcourse.

Sure he build his way to the top. Eric Bischoff got his hands on Chris Jericho for the sake of putting him on the top from the get go.

No, I am not failing to notice that Jericho was a big star in Mexico---Sure he was. But you can't compare how big of a legend Eddie turned out to be in Mexico to how big Jericho was. Whether it be because he was son of the great Gory Guerrero or because of how extrelmely talented and over he was, Eddie Guerrero definately was better than Jericho [in Mexico].

And I mostly credit that due to his family ties. But certainly it's not all about Mexico. On other hand Chris Jericho were a bigger star in Canada for example. Perhaps in the United States and Japan as well.

To be fair, Eddie has also defeated Ultimo Dragon in the past.

Sure. But it's just one of few legends that Chris Jericho have defeated, where as Eddie Guerrero haven't defeated some of those that Chris has on his list. This was just an earlier point of their careers. We all know who Chris went on to defeat.

No it shouldn't. It should warrant for beating the top guys in the US---not the world. A simple example can be El Hijo Del Santo. This guys is considered to be a great legend in Mexio, yet he was no where near US territory wrestling companies. And Eddie has defeated him numerous times as well as proven to be better than he was.

But WWE and WCW were world-wide wrestling companies with people from all-around the world. Sure there's some wrestlers that Eddie defeated that were huge shots in Mexico, as well as some in Japan. But the fact that Chris Jericho's huge talent defeats comes from the United States shouldn't make it any less of something to warrant him for, nor should it take away from his legacy because "OH NOOO the primary talents he defeated were Americans!!"

When we are comparing legacies, YES it does. The reason is because Chris Jericho's oh so great legacy would only have been buit FROM the United States. In contrast, Eddie has defeated the top dogs all over the world. In other words, Chris Jericho isn't as special when compared to Eddie [based on the world].

No it doesn't. No matter where they were a big star they were still big stars. It shouldn't take anything away. Are you gonna tell me that because Stone Cold were primarily a huge star in the United States, that defeating him means jack shit to the overall legacy of someone like Chris?

Because the 90's were a different time? As were the 80's? and 70's? and 60's? Look dude, I am not saying that ALL non-whites were held back. I'm saying that generally speaking, white folk tended to be the greater race when we are talking about place like WWE [in those times]. (Again, not discriminating)

But the successful non-American / British / Canadian wrestlers that worked around the world like Giant Baba, Ron Simmons, etc. were successful before Eddie's time and paved the way for people like Eddie. Why would someone all of a sudden revert back to discriminating on Eddie? On a Guerrero of all people as well?

Yes that is very true. But again, in WWF---not the world.

I believe this paragraph you quoted were based on ECW, not WWF. But in both cases he got hugely over quickly and made a big impact when debuting.

You forgot: IWA Mid-South Heavyweight Championship. Yea that makes 6---just like I said.

Erm.. no, the IWA mid-south wrestling promotion is an United States promotion based in Kentucky. 5 championships.

You and I know that was a poor choice of words. Eddie clearly had a bigger fan base [throughout the world]. And yes, it does make Eddie superior because he got the ability to have more exposure than Jericho.

I think you're misunderstanding me. Obviously a person who sticks around longer has longer time to get more over with the fans. Therefore respectably building a bigger fanbase from the fans within the various promotions. Not all-around the world.

I never said that, Ferbs. I was only stating Eddie's heart felt passion towards wrestling.

Like I said in the Pm. It certainly seemed like an insinuation that Chris didn't have a passion.

No it's totally fair. Why? Because that's when Eddie died. Eddie can't build a greater legacy anymore---yet Jericho can...and he did.

It's their overall legacy throughout their entire career. It doesn't mean jack shit if Eddie's dead or not, or if Chris Jericho is still working or not.

Not really no. I'm not going to give another explanaition because everything I've said in the past should be sufficient enough for me to prove you wrong.

Then how about we argue the fact that Chris Jericho didn't have any possibility of starting to train until he was 19 because the Hart wrestling school didn't allow him in? But Eddie Guerrero more or less had free access to the training of a legend.

Which is why roughly 15% of the reason Eddie had a greater legacy than Jericho did [based on 2005 and down]. Eddie simply had the bigger build. Get it?

That's something that I said. Not you. Eddie Guerrero having the bigger build and longer time to train should just mean that we can't care anymore for the fact that Eddie died in 2005, because he clearly had more years to work with the business.

No we shouldn't because my argument is that based on 2005 and down, Eddie had the bigger legacy, which, you yourself is starting to prove that I am right, and you are wrong.

But Eddie Guerrero had more years to work in the business and learn it's ways. What part of this is it that you're not getting?

The simple reason here is because Jericho made such a big impact on his return. It litterally just shocked the entire WWE fan base. Everyone had believed that we had seen the end of Jericho back in 2005 (some did think he would return but that's beside the point). But when he returned, it made people start to believe that Jericho could do just about anything in the wrestling business. Over time (after 2008), Jericho proved time and time again how great he was and that he was just fucking amazing. Now had this never happened, the possibility of people thinking the same [about Jericho] would be greatly decreased.

It was shocking, but it didn't make him any better whatsoever. Chris Jericho had these abilities from the get go, and he was able to do all the things that he's doing now, back in 2005 as well. His return was a nice thing and all that, but it did nothing for his legacy or anything. The whole best in the world thing already existed.

No it's not bullshit---it's logic. Had he returned in 2006 or 2007, it would not have been as great as him returning in 2008. Things would have probably turned out different. Then again, all this is just specualtion.

Tell me exactly how 1 or 2 extra years absence made any difference? Or for that sake how he couldn't have been as great if he had never left, and simply turned into the guy we know today in 2006 or 2007.

Yea and remember how Cena kicked his ass and Jericho left like a whiney bitch?

Storyline ending. It was exactly the way he described in his DVD that he wanted to retire.

Listen, Ferbs. Jericho WAS phenomenal 2005 and down. I'm not saying he was'nt. But the fact of the matter is, 2005 and down is Eddie's territory---not Chirs. If we are talking 2010 Chris Jericho to 2005 Eddie, then that is a totally different story---In this one, Jericho obviously has the greater legacy.

Chris Jericho owned the entire time period that they were both active, and on-wards. Eddie Guerrero was great, but he was never on Jericho's level.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

And do tell me how exactly Eddie Guerrero spreaded himself wider in the wrestling world? He might have wrestled in other promotions or more promotions. But Chris Jericho have wrestled in a bigger amount of different countries with different promotions.

Not true. Eddie traveled just as much as Jericho did if not more, wrestling in numerous wrestling companies and numerous areas. With that, it gave him the more exposure to the world. Also, you have the fact that Eddie's dad was Gory Guerrero, someone who was known very well throughout the wrestling world. Like that, you have people noticing Eddie alot more. With that, Eddie can show his stuff and generate the bigger popularity and ultimately the bigger legacy.

I never said because of how insanely over he was. I said he became insanely over after a short period of time. He was introduced to ECW because he was a good wrestler and a good worker.

Yet, so was Eddie. Only Heyman was the one that wanted Eddie---he approached Eddie. Chris met Eddie as a result of Benoit and was accepted because of how good he was. Either way, Eddie made a bigger impact on ECW.

He really didn't no. Eddie Guerrero was high flying we get that. But so was Chris Jericho. Both of them wrestled very well with the Lucha Libre style. But I really wouldn't call Eddie a Lucha Libre wrestler, as much as I would've called him a high flyer with mat wrestling influencing his moveset.

C'mon dude. You know that is just stupid. How can you say Eddie wasn't much of a lucha libre wrestler. Uh, Hello! his whole family consisted of lucha libre style (along with high flying). And what about all those matches he had at the start of his career, weren't those lucha libre style of wrestling? For fuck's sake, he was in Mexico! The place where f you don't know Lucha libre wrestling (nor high flying), than you are SHIT. Eddie WAS a phenomenal lucha libre wrestler. The proof is in his matches. Sure he did high flying, but the lucha libre style was there, man.

That's arguable. Eddie Guerrero wrestled some fine matches, and had a fairly decent ECW career. However, it was Chris Jericho who had a big impact like the Suplexing of Taz, the matches with Foley etc.

True but Eddie was one of the first to introduce a new style of wrestling to the ECW crowd. Which, of course, the fans took a major liking to. The fans had never seen anything like it, or do you not remember the countless matches between Dean Malenko and Eddie---the crowd was pumped for every match they had. This not only raised his popularity it made him to mark a bigger impact on ECW.

Sure he build his way to the top. Eric Bischoff got his hands on Chris Jericho for the sake of putting him on the top from the get go.

Yes that did happen. However look at how Eddie went. He started with nothing in the WCW brand----the place where not many people cared about the cruiserweight division. Eddie slowly raised himself to the top fighting many epic matches against 2 cold Scorpio, Juventud Guerrera (forgot his name, I think this is what it was), Rey Mysterio, CHRIS JERICHO, hell even Ric Flair at one point. From zero to a hero, Eddie progressed to the top. Now that sounds more of an accomplish than Jericho starting at the top and just staying there.

And I mostly credit that due to his family ties. But certainly it's not all about Mexico. On other hand Chris Jericho were a bigger star in Canada for example. Perhaps in the United States and Japan as well.

The family thing was just the start, it doesn't mean anything, all it really does is cause people to know who Eddie was. The popluarity, accomplishes, etc., was all on his own. This had nothing to do with the family. And while it is true that Jericho may have had the bigger impact on Canada, isn't Mexico more of a wrestling country than Canada? In other words, giving Eddie a bigger cance to expose himself than Jericho would in Canada. As for Japan, it's rather arguable whether who was the bigger star there, you say Jericho, I say Eddie.

Sure. But it's just one of few legends that Chris Jericho have defeated, where as Eddie Guerrero haven't defeated some of those that Chris has on his list. This was just an earlier point of their careers. We all know who Chris went on to defeat.

To be fair...again, Eddie dalso efeated a good number of legends that Jericho DID NOT defeat.

But WWE and WCW were world-wide wrestling companies with people from all-around the world. Sure there's some wrestlers that Eddie defeated that were huge shots in Mexico, as well as some in Japan. But the fact that Chris Jericho's huge talent defeats comes from the United States shouldn't make it any less of something to warrant him for, nor should it take away from his legacy because "OH NOOO the primary talents he defeated were Americans!!"

Of course not. But we are not comparing who defeated the greater legends, we are comparing their LEGACIES. And if Jericho [primarily] only defeated the huge talent in the US, than it really only warrants him for a bigger legacy in the United States. But of course, this is rather stupid statement because defeating the top dogs in a certain area isn't the only thing that contributes to one having a legacy.

The main thing that is contributed to ones legacy is their popularity. When you think of the word legacy, the first thing that SHOULD come to your mind is *popularity*. Popularit has a big build behind ones legacy. Though of course, you have to take in their accomplishes into account as well as other major/minor details.

No it doesn't. No matter where they were a big star they were still big stars. It shouldn't take anything away. Are you gonna tell me that because Stone Cold were primarily a huge star in the United States, that defeating him means jack shit to the overall legacy of someone like Chris?

How did you draw that conclusion? Hell no it doesn't mean jackshit. It was a great accomplishment. However, this is in the US, you're not taking into account the rest of the world. I said that Eddie defeated more top dogs throughout the world than Chris, making his legacy being built a good amount more.

But again, it goes to the point that the legacy one builds is really more based on the popularity one has.

But the successful non-American / British / Canadian wrestlers that worked around the world like Giant Baba, Ron Simmons, etc. were successful before Eddie's time and paved the way for people like Eddie. Why would someone all of a sudden revert back to discriminating on Eddie? On a Guerrero of all people as well?

Because those people were British, Canadian, hell, Europians? In that list, where is the Latino/Hispanic wrestlers? Oh yeah, either very minimal or if anything, purely under-exposed, under-rated, and under-credited wrestlers.

I believe this paragraph you quoted were based on ECW, not WWF. But in both cases he got hugely over quickly and made a big impact when debuting.

Nah, we have a pattern. It starts with WCW/ECW, leads to Mexico and Japan, and then go esto top dogs, and so on. I think this one was about WWF.

Also, if we go back to ECW, Eddie made a bigger impact. Whereas in WWF, while Jericho did make the bigger impact when debuting, Eddie slowly reached his way to the top with a great support from the crowd.

Erm.. no, the IWA mid-south wrestling promotion is an United States promotion based in Kentucky. 5 championships.

Either way, you were wrong at first. It wasn't 3 championships like you stated.

I think you're misunderstanding me. Obviously a person who sticks around longer has longer time to get more over with the fans. Therefore respectably building a bigger fanbase from the fans within the various promotions. Not all-around the world.

Well when you're considering that these promotions are scattered around the globe, it DOES add to the fan base they obtain throughout the world.

Like I said in the Pm. It certainly seemed like an insinuation that Chris didn't have a passion.

Yet like I said in the PM's as well, that's not what I ment. Trust me dude, I know Chris Jericho had a lot of passion towards the business.

Though let's compare passion a bit. Eddie had a greater passion for the business than Jericho did. In fact, jericho stated so himself. If I remember coorectly, Jericho stated that he had never met a guy such as him with such a great amount of dediaction to the wrestling business.

Eddie's sole purpose in the ring was to entertain the crowd, always striving for perfection no matter the cost. If he felt the crowd was being a bit sluggish, he would start off slow and little by little build on to flashier more energetic types of moves makink the crowd pumped up for the match and getting them to have more of a reaction. Reaction from the crowd---the very thing Eddie based his matches on; always trying to put on a spectacular to leave the crowd as entertained as possible. Sure, jericho did this as well. But Eddie was a master of this. He was, quite frankly, the excellence of execution when it came to psychology in the ring.

It's their overall legacy throughout their entire career. It doesn't mean jack shit if Eddie's dead or not, or if Chris Jericho is still working or not.

Yes, but like I've stated before, my argument is that based on the end of 2005 and down, Eddie had the bigger legacy. Is it just me, or are we starting to repeat ourselves a lot. [Clearly we won't be reaching an agreement anytime soon]

That's something that I said. Not you. Eddie Guerrero having the bigger build and longer time to train should just mean that we can't care anymore for the fact that Eddie died in 2005, because he clearly had more years to work with the business.

But Eddie Guerrero had more years to work in the business and learn it's ways. What part of this is it that you're not getting?

If I wrote a response for these two seperately, I'd only be repeating myself so I'll just make one response for both.

Dude, I understand that Eddie had a much longer build than Jericho did---I never denied it. However, it goes to the point where I keep telling you that based on the year 2005 or rather December 2005 and down (little after Eddie died and little before Jericho left), Eddie had a greater legacy than Jericho.

Imagine it like this: The day is December 31, 2005. Eddie has just recentl;y died shcoking the world. A while before, Jericho had left on a journey to explore the world. Now a thread is made saying both of these two guys are gone and that we will never see a fitting end for the both of them. Such a shame but it's fact. Now the question. "Who do you think generated the bigger legacy?---Eddie Guerrero or Chris Jericho? Now what would the most obvious answer be? EDDIE GUERRERO.

It was shocking, but it didn't make him any better whatsoever. Chris Jericho had these abilities from the get go, and he was able to do all the things that he's doing now, back in 2005 as well. His return was a nice thing and all that, but it did nothing for his legacy or anything. The whole best in the world thing already existed.

Not necessarily. Not many people realized [or even considered him] the best in the world by 2005. It wasn't until he returned that people began to think more like that really.

Pretend the year is 2005: You go up to someone and ask them if they think Jericho is the best in the world [in the wrestling business]...the logical response will be no. The reason for this is because Jericho wasn't viewed as highly as he is now (after his 2008 return).

Tell me exactly how 1 or 2 extra years absence made any difference? Or for that sake how he couldn't have been as great if he had never left, and simply turned into the guy we know today in 2006 or 2007

It's simply because it doesn't make it as special to only have a one or two year absence than it is to have a 3 year absence. It makes more of an impact if you have him return 3 years later rather than one year later. A year is a lot, but 3 years is more of a "FUCK! HE"S BACK! HE"S BACK!"
as they did. An example would be the animated series Family Gu

Storyline ending. It was exactly the way he described in his DVD that he wanted to retire.

Yes, but it was still the way it ended for him (until his return of course).

Chris Jericho owned the entire time period that they were both active, and on-wards. Eddie Guerrero was great, but he was never on Jericho's level.

Wrong. Eddie easily reached Jericho's level and surpassed him [when we base this on 2005 and down]. It's fact, Ferbian. Eddie Guerrero built a much bigger legacy than Jericho did. So Jericho made more accomplishes in the WWE, Eddie made a good number of accomplishes himself, one of those being proving how great he really was and gaining the respect of almost every single wrestling out there. Jericho did this also, but not until recently. Sure, he had a great amount of support before, but Eddie's fan support was greater...

...Goddamn this is getting long as fuck!

 

[Ferbian]

Not true. Eddie traveled just as much as Jericho did if not more, wrestling in numerous wrestling companies and numerous areas. With that, it gave him the more exposure to the world. Also, you have the fact that Eddie's dad was Gory Guerrero, someone who was known very well throughout the wrestling world. Like that, you have people noticing Eddie alot more. With that, Eddie can show his stuff and generate the bigger popularity and ultimately the bigger legacy.

Eddie Guerrero has been mostly known for wrestling Mexico, Japan, The United States and that's about it. Chris Jericho is known for wrestling Canada, The United States, Mexico, Germany and Japan.

Also, just because Eddie Guerrero's father was Gory Guerrero doesn't automatically make his legacy bigger. Bret Hart's legacy for one I would say became bigger due to himself, not due to his father being Stu Hart. Randy Orton's legacy is bigger due to himself and not due to his father being Cowboy Bob Orton. The same goes for a good amount of other wrestlers, as well as other talents like Shane for one, who hardly has a big legacy, but his father has a huge one.

Yet, so was Eddie. Only Heyman was the one that wanted Eddie---he approached Eddie. Chris met Eddie as a result of Benoit and was accepted because of how good he was. Either way, Eddie made a bigger impact on ECW.

Just because one was wanted by the promoter doesn't automatically mean that they made the bigger impact. Chris Jericho had the big debut match, Chris Jericho was the one who wrestled the top talents of the promotion. Not Eddie.

C'mon dude. You know that is just stupid. How can you say Eddie wasn't much of a lucha libre wrestler. Uh, Hello! his whole family consisted of lucha libre style (along with high flying). And what about all those matches he had at the start of his career, weren't those lucha libre style of wrestling? For fuck's sake, he was in Mexico! The place where f you don't know Lucha libre wrestling (nor high flying), than you are SHIT. Eddie WAS a phenomenal lucha libre wrestler. The proof is in his matches. Sure he did high flying, but the lucha libre style was there, man.

He might have been somewhat of a lucha libre wrestler back then. However his WWE and WCW stint while consisting of high flying moves and all that, was just as well ground-based. He could easily wrestle catch wrestling like Chris Jericho does at times.

True but Eddie was one of the first to introduce a new style of wrestling to the ECW crowd. Which, of course, the fans took a major liking to. The fans had never seen anything like it, or do you not remember the countless matches between Dean Malenko and Eddie---the crowd was pumped for every match they had. This not only raised his popularity it made him to mark a bigger impact on ECW.

So he introduced regular wrestling to them. Wrestling that was regularly shown in WCW and WWF. He introduced clean wrestling to a hardcore promotion. That's fine, but it doesn't mean that he overall had a bigger impact on the promotion, which after all remained a hardcore wrestling promotion.

Yes that did happen. However look at how Eddie went. He started with nothing in the WCW brand----the place where not many people cared about the cruiserweight division. Eddie slowly raised himself to the top fighting many epic matches against 2 cold Scorpio, Juventud Guerrera (forgot his name, I think this is what it was), Rey Mysterio, CHRIS JERICHO, hell even Ric Flair at one point. From zero to a hero, Eddie progressed to the top. Now that sounds more of an accomplish than Jericho starting at the top and just staying there.

I doubt it's true that very few people cared about the cruiserweight division. Like Chris Jericho said in his DVD, the reason WCW was blowing WWF out of the water was also a lot due to the mid-card, which was the cruiserweight division.

Also, you know the saying. It takes a lot to get to the top, but it takes more to stay at the top. (That's how the saying goes right?)

The family thing was just the start, it doesn't mean anything, all it really does is cause people to know who Eddie was. The popluarity, accomplishes, etc., was all on his own. This had nothing to do with the family. And while it is true that Jericho may have had the bigger impact on Canada, isn't Mexico more of a wrestling country than Canada? In other words, giving Eddie a bigger cance to expose himself than Jericho would in Canada. As for Japan, it's rather arguable whether who was the bigger star there, you say Jericho, I say Eddie.

Yet people knew who Eddie was due to his family. They got to learn who Chris Jericho was due to him just being popular and awesome.

And sure Canada might not be as big of a wrestling country as Mexico. However it is still a wrestling country.

To be fair...again, Eddie dalso efeated a good number of legends that Jericho DID NOT defeat.

Oh?

Of course not. But we are not comparing who defeated the greater legends, we are comparing their LEGACIES. And if Jericho [primarily] only defeated the huge talent in the US, than it really only warrants him for a bigger legacy in the United States. But of course, this is rather stupid statement because defeating the top dogs in a certain area isn't the only thing that contributes to one having a legacy.

Defeating a big legend adds to ones legacy. Defeating Hulk Hogan is an accomplishment that adds to ones legacy. Especially considering the way you defeated the legend, or for that sake what you accomplished defeating the legend. Chris Jericho became undisputed champion by defeating 2 legends in one night just for starters.

The main thing that is contributed to ones legacy is their popularity. When you think of the word legacy, the first thing that SHOULD come to your mind is *popularity*. Popularit has a big build behind ones legacy. Though of course, you have to take in their accomplishes into account as well as other major/minor details.

Popularity isn't all to ones legacy. As you mention yourself accomplishments are also a major detail in ones legacy. I'd say that the accomplishments exceeds the popularity of a wrestler in terms of legacy. Popularity comes alongside the accomplishments of a wrestler.

How did you draw that conclusion? Hell no it doesn't mean jackshit. It was a great accomplishment. However, this is in the US, you're not taking into account the rest of the world. I said that Eddie defeated more top dogs throughout the world than Chris, making his legacy being built a good amount more.

It still shouldn't take away from the legacy or accomplishments. Are you gonna tell me that Antonio Anoki isn't a big overall wrestler around the world because he wrestled primarily in Japan? Stan Hansen because he wrestled the majority of his time in Japan as well?

Yes Eddie might have defeated some big talents around the world outside of the United States, however if the legends legacy and importance isn't as big as the ones the other wrestler defeated, does it truly matter? The one that the other wrestler defeated will still mean more.

Because those people were British, Canadian, hell, Europians? In that list, where is the Latino/Hispanic wrestlers? Oh yeah, either very minimal or if anything, purely under-exposed, under-rated, and under-credited wrestlers.

I obviously didn't list the complete list dude. Besides, Giant Baba is Japanese. However, La Parka became rather hugely over and paved the way. Holy hell even Pedro Morales dude.

Also, if we go back to ECW, Eddie made a bigger impact. Whereas in WWF, while Jericho did make the bigger impact when debuting, Eddie slowly reached his way to the top with a great support from the crowd.

It's arguable who had the bigger support of the crowd.

Well when you're considering that these promotions are scattered around the globe, it DOES add to the fan base they obtain throughout the world.

Once again I think you're misunderstanding my point in the fact that sure they gain more world-wide fans. However, they sticking around gains more local fan bases, as well as makes one seem more loyal and dependable.

Though let's compare passion a bit. Eddie had a greater passion for the business than Jericho did. In fact, jericho stated so himself. If I remember coorectly, Jericho stated that he had never met a guy such as him with such a great amount of dediaction to the wrestling business.

Dedication and passion aren't exactly the same thing. One can be dedicated to something without being passionate about it.

Eddie's sole purpose in the ring was to entertain the crowd, always striving for perfection no matter the cost. If he felt the crowd was being a bit sluggish, he would start off slow and little by little build on to flashier more energetic types of moves makink the crowd pumped up for the match and getting them to have more of a reaction. Reaction from the crowd---the very thing Eddie based his matches on; always trying to put on a spectacular to leave the crowd as entertained as possible. Sure, jericho did this as well. But Eddie was a master of this. He was, quite frankly, the excellence of execution when it came to psychology in the ring.

Chris Jericho also lives and breathes to entertain the crowd, and even if he's already a great wrestler he has his times where he wish he was a better one (If we're to trust the word he said in his DVD)

Dude, I understand that Eddie had a much longer build than Jericho did---I never denied it. However, it goes to the point where I keep telling you that based on the year 2005 or rather December 2005 and down (little after Eddie died and little before Jericho left), Eddie had a greater legacy than Jericho.

I know you've been stating that. But that changes nothing of the fact that Eddie Guerrero had more years in the business than Chris Jericho from 2005 and down.

Not necessarily. Not many people realized [or even considered him] the best in the world by 2005. It wasn't until he returned that people began to think more like that really.

They didn't think of it, but it doesn't make it any less so.

Pretend the year is 2005: You go up to someone and ask them if they think Jericho is the best in the world [in the wrestling business]...the logical response will be no. The reason for this is because Jericho wasn't viewed as highly as he is now (after his 2008 return).

I most likely would've said yes had I been exposed enough to the wrestling product back then. There weren't a lot of people around to perform at the level of Chris Jericho.

It's simply because it doesn't make it as special to only have a one or two year absence than it is to have a 3 year absence. It makes more of an impact if you have him return 3 years later rather than one year later. A year is a lot, but 3 years is more of a "FUCK! HE"S BACK! HE"S BACK!"
as they did. An example would be the animated series Family Gu

That makes absolutely no sense. Triple H was gone for a long period of time, but not a year. Stone Cold was gone for about a year, John Cena was gone for a few months when all of them were out with injuries. But they had huge come backs. Hell even Edge.

Wrong. Eddie easily reached Jericho's level and surpassed him [when we base this on 2005 and down]. It's fact, Ferbian. Eddie Guerrero built a much bigger legacy than Jericho did. So Jericho made more accomplishes in the WWE, Eddie made a good number of accomplishes himself, one of those being proving how great he really was and gaining the respect of almost every single wrestling out there. Jericho did this also, but not until recently. Sure, he had a great amount of support before, but Eddie's fan support was greater...

You're saying that Chris Jericho didn't gain the respect of all the wrestlers before 2008? Chris Jericho got plenty of praise back in the days. So that is hardly true.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

While both Eddie and Y2J are indeed legends in the business, I am going to for for Chris Jericho on this one.

He has held more Championship belts than Eddie, and was the 1st ever Undisputed Champion, which will ensure that he will always be remembered. He is also the man who has held the IC title more than any others, plus Jericho had the legendary debut in the WWF with the "Millenium Countdown" and has cut many more great promos than Eddie.

The legacy of Eddie Guerrero is also great, having fought back from his personal problems and addictions to eventually reach the top, having won many other titles along the way, and his story is indeed an inspiration for others who have issues with drugs and alcohol in their lives.

However, focusing entirely on wrestling, I believe Chris Jericho has been more important to, and will end up having left more of a lasting impact on the business than Eddie Guerrero.

However, both men are both iconic in my opinion

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I'm going to say something that is not going to go down well with Chris Jericho fans. Chris Jericho is not that much respected by marks.

I can't say I can argue much with them. I've asked a lot of marks and Jericho does nothing for them. Think about it he has won most of his championships as a cheating, whining heel. He says that he is the best in the world at what he does. From a purely kayfabe point of view that is wrestling. Yet he loses to guys like Evan Bourne who was a jobber before winning against Jericho and has been one ever since.

Guerrero on the other hand was a very entertaining face. He openly accepted that he cheated and has performed some crazy moves like a frog splash from the top of a cage. Guerrero comes off like a guy who has always accepted his shortcomings while Jericho comes off as an arrogant prick.

So in short I'd like to say that Jericho is more loved by smarks while Guerrero is more liked by marks.

What do you think?

 

[Ultra Awesome]

Eddie Guerrero has been mostly known for wrestling Mexico, Japan, The United States and that's about it. Chris Jericho is known for wrestling Canada, The United States, Mexico, Germany and Japan.

Germany? Explain to me where does it say that Chris Jericho wrestled in Germany.

Also, just because Eddie Guerrero's father was Gory Guerrero doesn't automatically make his legacy bigger. Bret Hart's legacy for one I would say became bigger due to himself, not due to his father being Stu Hart. Randy Orton's legacy is bigger due to himself and not due to his father being Cowboy Bob Orton. The same goes for a good amount of other wrestlers, as well as other talents like Shane for one, who hardly has a big legacy, but his father has a huge one.

You misunderstood what I wrote. I stated that because Eddie's father was Gory Guerrero, it allowed for people to notice him a lot more; giving him more exposure to the wrestling world. Now, with all his initial exposure, all he had to do was show-case his talent and inevedibably, gain the greater legacy---which he did. Whether you call this an unfair advantage or not, it makes no difference because the fact of the matter is, Eddie was able to gain the greater exposure throughout the wrestling world and ultimately, the greater legacy.

Just because one was wanted by the promoter doesn't automatically mean that they made the bigger impact.

I never said this, Ferbs. I only corrected you by saying what actually happened. Of course Paul Heyman wanting Eddie doesn't mean that he'd make a bigger impact. BUt still, it makes Eddie look better

Chris Jericho had the big debut match, Chris Jericho was the one who wrestled the top talents of the promotion. Not Eddie.

Eddie Guerrero was the one that shocked the entire ECW fanbase show-casing his lucha-libre/high-flying methods (along with Malenko) week in and week out. Every single time leaving the crowd in shock and amazement. Not Jericho. Sure, Jericho had the crowd constantly cheering him as well, but not the same as they did with Eddie.

He might have been somewhat of a lucha libre wrestler back then. However his WWE and WCW stint while consisting of high flying moves and all that, was just as well ground-based. He could easily wrestle catch wrestling like Chris Jericho does at times.

Uh yea, both of those two things that you mentioned are 2/3 of the lucha libre style of wrestling. The last part consists of a variety of submission manuevers which Eddie Guerrero used in practically every match. I'm sorry dude, but for you to be saying Eddie DIDN'T use the lucha libre style of wrestling [in WCW & WWE] is completley absurd and stupid.

So he introduced regular wrestling to them. Wrestling that was regularly shown in WCW and WWF[Difference was, Eddie Guerrero introduced lucha libre---Not necessarily what they had going in WCW and WWF]. He introduced clean [Lucha-libre] wrestling to a hardcore promotion. That's fine, but it doesn't mean that he overall had a bigger impact on the promotion, which after all remained a hardcore wrestling promotion.

Yes, it did remain a hardcore wrestling promotion, I never said it changed it. But what I am saying is that Eddie introduced the lucha libre style to a company that was used to just pure hardcore matches. When someone is exposed to something completely different to what they are used to, and ACTUALLY like it, it usually DOES tend to make a bigger impact. It's simple logic (probably could've explained this a little better but you should get what I'm trying to say).

I doubt it's true that very few people cared about the cruiserweight division. Like Chris Jericho said in his DVD, the reason WCW was blowing WWF out of the water was also a lot due to the mid-card, which was the cruiserweight division.

Arguable. In Eddie Guerrero's DVD, it was constantly said that not many people gave a flying flip about the cruiser-weight division. Hell, JR even said this. JR stated that the best thing WCW had going was the cruiserweight division, yet it was percular to him because it seemed as if the fans really didn't care about the cruiser-weight division. I remember Jericho said something similar as well in Eddie's DVD.

Also, you know the saying. It takes a lot to get to the top, but it takes more to stay at the top. (That's how the saying goes right?)

You mean, "Getting to the top is one thing, Staying on top is another"? (I don't know...more or less...but I get what you're saying).

Also, didn't Eddie stay on the top after climbing to the top? Yea, I believe he did.

Yet people knew who Eddie was due to his family. They got to learn who Chris Jericho was due to him just being popular and awesome.

Like I said before, that makes no difference. His family really only gets him initial exposure, everything else is accomplished all on his own. The very reason Eddie became so popular was because of how good he was and how much charisma he showed. Eddie knew how to deliver. Chris did also, but not as well as Eddie.

And sure Canada might not be as big of a wrestling country as Mexico. However it is still a wrestling country.

An insufficient wrestling country compared to Mexico.

Oh?

Yup.

Defeating a big legend adds to ones legacy. Defeating Hulk Hogan is an accomplishment that adds to ones legacy. Especially considering the way you defeated the legend, or for that sake what you accomplished defeating the legend. Chris Jericho became undisputed champion by defeating 2 legends in one night just for starters.

True, but the main idea of the term legacy is “how much will this person be remembered”, and usually such a thing is based on popularity more than accomplishment. Though, accomplishment is a great factor, popularity is a much greater factor when defining someone’s legacy.

Popularity isn't all to ones legacy. As you mention yourself accomplishments are also a major detail in ones legacy. I'd say that the accomplishments exceeds the popularity of a wrestler in terms of legacy. Popularity comes alongside the accomplishments of a wrestler.

You’re confusing LEGACY with SUCCESS. Accomplishments is usually more added to the success one achieves rather than the legacy. Of course, success has a major part to do with legacy. However, popularity is an even greater factor to a legacy because it defines how one will be remembered more than success does (usually).

It still shouldn't take away from the legacy or accomplishments. Are you gonna tell me that Antonio Anoki isn't a big overall wrestler around the world because he wrestled primarily in Japan? Stan Hansen because he wrestled the majority of his time in Japan as well?

No it’s not taking anything away from their legacy---I never said that. Antonio Anoki, although primarily wrestling only in Japan, his name was well known throughout the world? Why? Because he was that good. Now, Jericho, he was good, maybe not Anoki good, but good nonetheless.But the thing here is that you are comparing him to Eddie Guerrero, dude. Someone who was more well known throught the world than Jericho was.

Yes Eddie might have defeated some big talents around the world outside of the United States, however if the legends legacy and importance isn't as big as the ones the other wrestler defeated, does it truly matter? The one that the other wrestler defeated will still mean more.

I had to re-read this a couple of times, and I still don’t get it. I’m sorry but can you explain this a bit more?

I obviously didn't list the complete list dude. Besides, Giant Baba is Japanese. However, La Parka became rather hugely over and paved the way. Holy hell even Pedro Morales dude.

Ah, Pedro Morales, very good. Ok, you named a few, now compare that to the number of successful white LEGENDS (i.e. Hulk Hogan, Jesse Ventura, Randy Savage, all the other big names). List looks pretty small, don’t it?

It's arguable who had the bigger support of the crowd.

Not really no. Eddie had the greater support. At least, towards the end, Eddie had garnered the greater support from the crowd than Jericho had.

Once again I think you're misunderstanding my point in the fact that sure they gain more world-wide fans. However, they sticking around gains more local fan bases, as well as makes one seem more loyal and dependable.

LOCAL fan-base; Not world-wide. As for loyalty, yes it is important, but when defining legacy, if you take into consideration the world rather than just one country, it looks much greater.

Dedication and passion aren't exactly the same thing. One can be dedicated to something without being passionate about it.

Uh, excuse me? The dedication you have for something is defined by the passion you have for it. They are two of the same thing. You can’t just not be dedicated and not be passionate about something at the same time. You’re either both or you’re not both. That simple. Dedication defines passion.

Chris Jericho also lives and breathes to entertain the crowd, and even if he's already a great wrestler he has his times where he wish he was a better one (If we're to trust the word he said in his DVD)

Yes but Eddie understood the crowd boat-loads more than Jericho did. As I explained in this specific quote on my previous post, Eddie was a master of psychology in the ring, much more so than Jericho. And yes, even Jericho admitted it. Eddie didn’t just define entertainment for the crowd, he broke the bar and raised the meaning of it.

I know you've been stating that. But that changes nothing of the fact that Eddie Guerrero had more years in the business than Chris Jericho from 2005 and down.

It’s not supposed to because we are comparing 2005 and down---not 2010 and down. Get it? Call it unfair if you want, it makes no difference. The facts still remain. Just because it is unfair does not mean it can’t happen.

They didn't think of it, but it doesn't make it any less so.

But it wasn’t so your point is moot.

I most likely would've said yes had I been exposed enough to the wrestling product back then. There weren't a lot of people around to perform at the level of Chris Jericho.

Besides Eddie Guerrero who was much greater than Jericho.

That makes absolutely no sense. Triple H was gone for a long period of time, but not a year. Stone Cold was gone for about a year, John Cena was gone for a few months when all of them were out with injuries. But they had huge come backs. Hell even Edge.

Yea, but would it not have been a bigger comeback had they spent more time away? Check Rock for instance. Guy only returns every few years or so. Look at how much of a MTFO that creates. However, had the Rock returned after only a few months of absences, it would not have been as special, now would it? It’s a simple psychological point of view, Ferbs. The less you are exposed to something, the greater impact it makes when you ARE exposed to it.

You're saying that Chris Jericho didn't gain the respect of all the wrestlers before 2008? Chris Jericho got plenty of praise back in the days. So that is hardly true.

For the god knows how many-ith time. STOP ASSUMING! I’m speaking of Eddie, dude. I never discredited Jericho at all. I merely stated Eddie’s support was greater. That’s it.

Face it, Ferbian…I win. You have no credible argument left. Most are just false assumptions that I keep correcting. Besides, the turn we’ve taken has gone into more of a psychological point of view. You can’t beat me there…I kick ass at it.

 

[Ferbian]

Germany? Explain to me where does it say that Chris Jericho wrestled in Germany.

Chris Jericho said it himself on his DVD. I thought you said you watched it?

You misunderstood what I wrote. I stated that because Eddie's father was Gory Guerrero, it allowed for people to notice him a lot more; giving him more exposure to the wrestling world. Now, with all his initial exposure, all he had to do was show-case his talent and inevedibably, gain the greater legacy---which he did. Whether you call this an unfair advantage or not, it makes no difference because the fact of the matter is, Eddie was able to gain the greater exposure throughout the wrestling world and ultimately, the greater legacy.

Yet it still means that his initial exposure and legacy all came due to being bred into a legendary wrestling family. And I'm not saying that it's automatically an unfair advantage, but it is a fact that it helped Eddie a lot rather than the fact that he was immensely talented. That only got him over later on.

I never said this, Ferbs. I only corrected you by saying what actually happened. Of course Paul Heyman wanting Eddie doesn't mean that he'd make a bigger impact. BUt still, it makes Eddie look better

Makes him look better perhaps. But it hardly means that he has the bigger legacy due to it if his impact was bullshit compared to the other guy (I'm not saying it was bullshit, but it's merely an example)

Eddie Guerrero was the one that shocked the entire ECW fanbase show-casing his lucha-libre/high-flying methods (along with Malenko) week in and week out. Every single time leaving the crowd in shock and amazement. Not Jericho. Sure, Jericho had the crowd constantly cheering him as well, but not the same as they did with Eddie.

That's all fair and that. But while he might have left the crowd remembering him back in ECW, I would hardly say that he had the bigger importance of ECW considering the fact that he was still left to wrestle in the mid-card. Where as Chris Jericho still did wrestle all the top talents of the promotion. A mid-carder is valuable, but the main eventers are the importance.

Uh yea, both of those two things that you mentioned are 2/3 of the lucha libre style of wrestling. The last part consists of a variety of submission manuevers which Eddie Guerrero used in practically every match. I'm sorry dude, but for you to be saying Eddie DIDN'T use the lucha libre style of wrestling [in WCW & WWE] is completley absurd and stupid.

I never said that he didn't use his lucha libre style. However I am saying that he strikes me much more of a catch-as-catch-can wrestler.

Yes, it did remain a hardcore wrestling promotion, I never said it changed it. But what I am saying is that Eddie introduced the lucha libre style to a company that was used to just pure hardcore matches. When someone is exposed to something completely different to what they are used to, and ACTUALLY like it, it usually DOES tend to make a bigger impact. It's simple logic (probably could've explained this a little better but you should get what I'm trying to say).

Yet if we're to regard it as a proper big impact then it would've changed ECW as a whole. But it didn't. It might have impacted a little bit. But it didn't do enough to warrant itself as something truly groundbreaking in ECW. And sure I'm not saying Chris Jericho did anything particularly ground-breaking besides suplexing Taz. But he also offered his share of clean and lucha-libre wrestling to ECW. So really wouldn't that mean that Chris Jericho more or less balances himself with Eddie in ECW?

Arguable. In Eddie Guerrero's DVD, it was constantly said that not many people gave a flying flip about the cruiser-weight division. Hell, JR even said this. JR stated that the best thing WCW had going was the cruiserweight division, yet it was percular to him because it seemed as if the fans really didn't care about the cruiser-weight division. I remember Jericho said something similar as well in Eddie's DVD.

Different aspects I guess. Like you just said yourself, JR affirmed that the Cruiserweight division was the best thing going in WCW. And as Chris said, they were blowing WWF out of the water due to the cruiserweight division, which was superior to anything that the mid-card of WWF could even imagine to offer.

You mean, "Getting to the top is one thing, Staying on top is another"? (I don't know...more or less...but I get what you're saying).

That's the one me thinks.

Also, didn't Eddie stay on the top after climbing to the top? Yea, I believe he did.

Hardly. Eddie Guerrero after loosing the belt sure he continued to feud a bit with Angle. But eventually in 2005 he returned to being in the mid-card feuding with Rey Mysterio and MNM for a period of time over both tag team gold as well as just some regular storyline between him and Rey.

Chris Jericho? Sure he got bumped back down to the mid-card for a period of time after the Undisputed championship reign. However he was always in the position of either feuding with a top talent, or looming in the upper mid-card available for title shots. Also in 2008 he firmly assumed a position where he could easily challenge for the world titles at any given point. And he did just that numerous times, as well as won it 3 times upon his return.

Like I said before, that makes no difference. His family really only gets him initial exposure, everything else is accomplished all on his own. The very reason Eddie became so popular was because of how good he was and how much charisma he showed. Eddie knew how to deliver. Chris did also, but not as well as Eddie.

Yet who's to say where Eddie would've been if he wasn't initially exposed for his in-ring ability and all-around talent if he hadn't been a Guerrero? Bryan Danielson is one hell of a talent, yet spend 10 years in the independent scene with a very few amount of try-out matches in 2001-2002. Who's to say if Eddie Guerrero wouldn't have done the same?

An insufficient wrestling country compared to Mexico.

Yet still a wrestling country.

Yup.

I was hoping you'd care to list some.

True, but the main idea of the term legacy is “how much will this person be remembered”, and usually such a thing is based on popularity more than accomplishment. Though, accomplishment is a great factor, popularity is a much greater factor when defining someone’s legacy.

It depends which kind of people you ask. Would you remember (using an example) Edge for being popular? Or for the fact that he more or less won every single championship in WWE history? And multiple times as well.

You’re confusing LEGACY with SUCCESS. Accomplishments is usually more added to the success one achieves rather than the legacy. Of course, success has a major part to do with legacy. However, popularity is an even greater factor to a legacy because it defines how one will be remembered more than success does (usually).

I'm really not no. Because accomplishments while adding to success still adds to ones legacy as well. Did you leave behind numerous amazing and memorable title reigns? Did you accomplish more or less anything in the wrestling business, therefore defaulting you to get a more or less big legacy even if you wasn't necessarily the best? Sure Shawn Michaels for example has accomplished wrestling in more or less all gimmick matches and multiple man matches (Except for Money in the Bank). He has been in many first matches. And automatically that is gonna give him a bigger legacy is it not?

No it’s not taking anything away from their legacy---I never said that. Antonio Anoki, although primarily wrestling only in Japan, his name was well known throughout the world? Why? Because he was that good. Now, Jericho, he was good, maybe not Anoki good, but good nonetheless.But the thing here is that you are comparing him to Eddie Guerrero, dude. Someone who was more well known throught the world than Jericho was.

Yet it's merely an example of how it doesn't truly matter whether your accomplishments came from being exposed hugely in one country, or exposed mildly / very well in numerous countries.

I had to re-read this a couple of times, and I still don’t get it. I’m sorry but can you explain this a bit more?

Let's say Eddie Guerrero defeats one of the very legendary Mexican wrestlers in Mexico. But Chris Jericho goes on to cleanly pin a prime Hulk Hogan in the United States. Which one do you think has more importance? (It's a bullshit example, but it works I would say)

Ah, Pedro Morales, very good. Ok, you named a few, now compare that to the number of successful white LEGENDS (i.e. Hulk Hogan, Jesse Ventura, Randy Savage, all the other big names). List looks pretty small, don’t it?

Sure the list looks small. However it doesn't mean that there is some kind of discrimination considering the fact of how accomplished a guy like Pedro, Iron Sheik, Bruno Sammartino (Who were Italian-American, gotta count for something right?) Yokozuna (2 times WWE champion).

As well as the many non full-blooded whites that have accomplished something in WWE, WCW, NWA or for that sake simply getting a WWE Hall of Fame induction (The Rock's father and grandfather).

Not really no. Eddie had the greater support. At least, towards the end, Eddie had garnered the greater support from the crowd than Jericho had.

Towards the end Chris Jericho was a heel. Of course he's not gonna get the same kind of support. But he did get a great amount of support from the fans whenever he was a face.

LOCAL fan-base; Not world-wide. As for loyalty, yes it is important, but when defining legacy, if you take into consideration the world rather than just one country, it looks much greater.

That's true. But Chris Jericho was still a world-renown talent in numerous countries and promotions so obviously he's not lost behind a wagon either. While still remaining a loyal trustworthy employee.

Uh, excuse me? The dedication you have for something is defined by the passion you have for it. They are two of the same thing. You can’t just not be dedicated and not be passionate about something at the same time. You’re either both or you’re not both. That simple. Dedication defines passion.

Of course you can be dedicated without being passionate about it. It's all about showing up and doing your thing and remaining dedicated like that. But to perform to the extend of which your abilities allows you to do each and every night is also being passionate. Shawn Michaels was a dedicated and passionate wrestler, Eddie Guerrero and Chris Jericho the same. But all of them could've most likely easily given less than they did for the crowd, and still be dedicated without being truly passionate about performing that night.

Yes but Eddie understood the crowd boat-loads more than Jericho did. As I explained in this specific quote on my previous post, Eddie was a master of psychology in the ring, much more so than Jericho. And yes, even Jericho admitted it. Eddie didn’t just define entertainment for the crowd, he broke the bar and raised the meaning of it.

Some people would disagree with Eddie Guerrero raising the bar compared to Chris Jericho. Pat Patterson and Roddy Piper to name two. And Chris Jericho certainly also had his ability to get the crowd riled up. Which one was the better one? It's arguable, but it's obvious that both could get one hell of a reaction from the crowd.

[YOUTUBE]gOcZ8LCaq8w[/YOUTUBE]

Just look at this. If that's not getting a reaction from the crowd, I sure as hell don't know what is.

It’s not supposed to because we are comparing 2005 and down---not 2010 and down. Get it? Call it unfair if you want, it makes no difference. The facts still remain. Just because it is unfair does not mean it can’t happen.

Except we're not. There's no limits to where we can compare, I believe I've already tried to establish that for you. If we can compare from 2005 down, Eddie Guerrero automatically has more years to showcase his talent than Chris Jericho due to him wrestling as a child and officially wrestling in promotions since 87.

Besides Eddie Guerrero who was much greater than Jericho.

I would've still considered Chris Jericho the better wrestler back then I'm sure. But that's irrelevant more or less due to the fact that I didn't watch back then.

Yea, but would it not have been a bigger comeback had they spent more time away? Check Rock for instance. Guy only returns every few years or so. Look at how much of a MTFO that creates. However, had the Rock returned after only a few months of absences, it would not have been as special, now would it? It’s a simple psychological point of view, Ferbs. The less you are exposed to something, the greater impact it makes when you ARE exposed to it.

I really doubt the come-back would've been considered larger due to more time spend away. You miss him or you don't miss him. You can't possibly start to miss someone more because a few months longer passed by, except for the beginning. Due to the fact that you're not gonna notice them missing for a week or two's time. Yet you'll notice it when they've been gone for a few months. There's hardly any difference in terms of feelings for one being missed because another year passed by. Eddie Guerrero is a good example of this. I doubt someone is missing him more because we hit the 5th year since he passed away.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

Yet it still means that his initial exposure and legacy all came due to being bred into a legendary wrestling family. And I'm not saying that it's automatically an unfair advantage, but it is a fact that it helped Eddie a lot rather than the fact that he was immensely talented. That only got him over later on.

You do realize that all you did in this quote was re-state everything I said before you. We I have already established that the initial exposure was due to the family. However, it was all on Eddie to build his own legacy after that. If you think about it, same thing can be applied to Chavo. He was part of the same family, so does that mean he get's a bigger legacy? No, of course not. Chavo never really did anything *spectacular* that can compare to the likes of Eddie (or Chris) in terms of legacy (and everything else). Do you see what I am saying? Eddie's LEGACY can be only be achieved by one thing: himself.

Also, just to clear it up, legacy can't be achieved right away; you have to build toward it.

Makes him look better perhaps. But it hardly means that he has the bigger legacy due to it if his impact was bullshit compared to the other guy (I'm not saying it was bullshit, but it's merely an example)

Never said it makes Eddie have the bigger legacy, but I wil say that it does contribute to the legacy and impact Eddie has made in the wrestling world. Which in ECW, Eddie built the bigger legacy.

That's all fair and that. But while he might have left the crowd remembering him back in ECW, I would hardly say that he had the bigger importance of ECW considering the fact that he was still left to wrestle in the mid-card. Where as Chris Jericho still did wrestle all the top talents of the promotion. A mid-carder is valuable, but the main eventers are the importance.

Chris Jericho wasn't exactly a main eventer in ECW, but he was a top mid-carder (at least from what I remember). Also, Eddi was a top mid-carder as well. The specifics are rather faint in my memmory so correct me if I'm wrong.

But say Chris was a main eventer, and Eddie a mid carder, that should hardly make a difference in the overall legacy they achieve [in ECW]. Legacy has more to do with how you will be remembered and Eddie has his winning ticket with introducing a new style of wrestling to the hardcore fans. Sure, Chris may have his main event stuff, but in the end it doesn't matter because Eddie will most likely be remembered more due to his incredible matches.

I never said that he didn't use his lucha libre style. However I am saying that he strikes me much more of a catch-as-catch-can wrestler.

Another [minor] attribution to the lucha libre style of wrestling. Eddie was a lucha libre wrestler, Ferbs. Whether you saw it that way or not, he was. That's fact.

Yet if we're to regard it as a proper big impact then it would've changed ECW as a whole. But it didn't. It might have impacted a little bit. But it didn't do enough to warrant itself as something truly groundbreaking in ECW. And sure I'm not saying Chris Jericho did anything particularly ground-breaking besides suplexing Taz. But he also offered his share of clean and lucha-libre wrestling to ECW. So really wouldn't that mean that Chris Jericho more or less balances himself with Eddie in ECW?

Uh...Change ECW as a whole? The entire purpose of the new style of wrestling was to show case a new STYLE of wrestling to the ECW fans. Which Malenko and Eddie did phenomonally and which the entire crowd took a great liking to. Hello! It's fricken ECW, of course they would NEVER change from being EXTREME to being more ground-based. Completely illogical.

[YOUTUBE]Zg_RtpflGlM[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]RaoDEOVYABU&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]aNoQpBuTs1M&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

^ There you go. Exactly the kind of IMPACT Eddie made on ECW. Pay attention to the crowd. Do you see how much they respected them? The crowd was all over them; asking for more; excited/clapping at every turn. This is the IMPACT Eddie made. The one that will be remembered forever.


As for, Chris being able to use lucha libre wrestling, well yeah, he did. But do you want to know a little secret? Ok...Compared to Eddie and Dean, Jericho sucked. Want to know another secret? Every Mexican or person that watches meixcan style wrestling on a daily bases will tell you that.

Different aspects I guess. Like you just said yourself, JR affirmed that the Cruiserweight division was the best thing going in WCW. And as Chris said, they were blowing WWF out of the water due to the cruiserweight division, which was superior to anything that the mid-card of WWF could even imagine to offer.

Yeah, guess so. And seeing as how I wasn't there watching WCW and WWF compete with each other, I can't say for sure what is fact and what is not. All we can go by is on opinions we've heard. From what I heard, WCW's most under-rated talent was from the cruiserweight. Yet, it was the best thing they had going.

Hardly. Eddie Guerrero after loosing the belt sure he continued to feud a bit with Angle. But eventually in 2005 he returned to being in the mid-card feuding with Rey Mysterio and MNM for a period of time over both tag team gold as well as just some regular storyline between him and Rey.

I would classify Eddie and Rey at the time more like Upper mid-carders rather than just mid carders. Reason be because the whole Eddie and Rey situation that had developed on Smackdown was like the 2nd best story (feud) Smackdown had going at the time. The first being of course the World title feud. Either way, Eddie remained as one of the top dogs.

Chris Jericho? Sure he got bumped back down to the mid-card for a period of time after the Undisputed championship reign. However he was always in the position of either feuding with a top talent, or looming in the upper mid-card available for title shots.

Sure, he did continue feuding with top talent. Though most of his time after his Undisputed reign, he spent it in the mid-card feuding with the likes of Christian. It wasn't really until 2005 when he started feuding with Cena that he had re-established himself at the main event. Eddie on the other hand, rose to the top little by little until he became champion. Afterwards, he may have gone down to upper mid-card level. But he was still atop dog nonetheless.

Also in 2008 he firmly assumed a position where he could easily challenge for the world titles at any given point. And he did just that numerous times, as well as won it 3 times upon his return.

Irrelevant, dude. My argumenbt is 2005 and down, you're going to high. Lol.

Yet who's to say where Eddie would've been if he wasn't initially exposed for his in-ring ability and all-around talent if he hadn't been a Guerrero? Bryan Danielson is one hell of a talent, yet spend 10 years in the independent scene with a very few amount of try-out matches in 2001-2002. Who's to say if Eddie Guerrero wouldn't have done the same?

You do realize that's like me saying "What if Jericho had never made it to the Hart Dungeon, would he have gotten to where he is now without it?" When comparing legacies, you don't deal with "what if's". You deal with what's there---the facts.

How Eddie got to where he was (whether it be because of his family or not), it does not matter, the FACT is that he did what he did to get there.

I was hoping you'd care to list some.

Bunch of Mexican legends including El Hijo Del Santo. More, I just can't remember their names clearly.

It depends which kind of people you ask. Would you remember (using an example) Edge for being popular? Or for the fact that he more or less won every single championship in WWE history? And multiple times as well.

True. But overall, people will remember people because of their greatest attributes. And for Eddie, it would be his popularity. Also, Legacy is more closely tied to popularity than accomplishments. Though, I guess this is arguable.

I'm really not no. Because accomplishments while adding to success still adds to ones legacy as well. Did you leave behind numerous amazing and memorable title reigns? Did you accomplish more or less anything in the wrestling business, therefore defaulting you to get a more or less big legacy even if you wasn't necessarily the best? Sure Shawn Michaels for example has accomplished wrestling in more or less all gimmick matches and multiple man matches (Except for Money in the Bank). He has been in many first matches. And automatically that is gonna give him a bigger legacy is it not?

This was a rather confusing quote, but from what I understood, I will say:

Sure, accomplishment still adds to the overall legacy one achieves, but it is popularity that more or less adds more to the legacy, Like you stated, Shawn Michaels; in terms of title accomplishments, it wasn't much. However, Shawn will be most remembered by the numerous and glorious matches that he had. Whereas Eddie will be remembered by how popular he was. Jericho by whatever he's remembered by and so on. However, Eddie's popularity attribution outshines Jericho's whatever. Meaning, he will [most likely] be remembered more than Jericho was---thus, generating the greater legacy.

Yet it's merely an example of how it doesn't truly matter whether your accomplishments came from being exposed hugely in one country, or exposed mildly / very well in numerous countries.

But when you add the totals, the more you have been spread, the better. Especially when we're talking the world.

Let's say Eddie Guerrero defeats one of the very legendary Mexican wrestlers in Mexico. But Chris Jericho goes on to cleanly pin a prime Hulk Hogan in the United States. Which one do you think has more importance? (It's a bullshit example, but it works I would say)

Varies on what country you're talking about. Going by your example, if Eddie pinned a legend from Mexico, El Hijo Del Santo. It wouldn't mean as much in the US as it does in Mexico because people care more in Mexico about it, than they would in the US. Vise-versa for Jericho pinning someone like Hogan.

Sure the list looks small. However it doesn't mean that there is some kind of discrimination considering the fact of how accomplished a guy like Pedro, Iron Sheik, Bruno Sammartino (Who were Italian-American, gotta count for something right?) Yokozuna (2 times WWE champion).

Probably not discrimination in particular. But the facts are the list WAS small when compared to the number of whites that achieved better records than that of foreigners. Also, the Mexicans had it worse than Europians.

As well as the many non full-blooded whites that have accomplished something in WWE, WCW, NWA or for that sake simply getting a WWE Hall of Fame induction (The Rock's father and grandfather).

Yea, but it goes without saying, list is small. Do me a favor and when you reply to this quote, merge this one and the one above this so that we only have to talk about race issues in one section of the debate.

Towards the end Chris Jericho was a heel. Of course he's not gonna get the same kind of support. But he did get a great amount of support from the fans whenever he was a face.

Technically, you can still get support from the fans even if you're heel. How is that done? Through "Boo's" and talking about how great of the heel they are.For example, Ric Flair, guy was heel most of his career, yet it's safe to say everyone loves him.

That's true. But Chris Jericho was still a world-renown talent in numerous countries and promotions so obviously he's not lost behind a wagon either. While still remaining a loyal trustworthy employee.

Yes, but it's safe to say Eddie was loyal to the promotions he was in as well. For example, WWE. It was often said, by Vince McMahon himself, that Eddie was a great LOYAL worker. Linda and Stephanie also commented on this if I'm not mistaken.

Of course you can be dedicated without being passionate about it. It's all about showing up and doing your thing and remaining dedicated like that. But to perform to the extend of which your abilities allows you to do each and every night is also being passionate. Shawn Michaels was a dedicated and passionate wrestler, Eddie Guerrero and Chris Jericho the same. But all of them could've most likely easily given less than they did for the crowd, and still be dedicated without being truly passionate about performing that night.

That's a falicy. It's not a sound argument. Sure, it seems logical but it's not true. If you are dedicated to something you have to be passionate about it. For example, I cannot be dedicated to lifting weights if I don't have passion for it. My lack of passion would effect my overall dedication I have to it. Eventually, without passion, I will start to get lazy and not want to lift weights at all. There in by effecting how dedicated I was to lifting weights. So you see? Passion affects the dedication you have for something. So you can't have one without having the other.

Some people would disagree with Eddie Guerrero raising the bar compared to Chris Jericho. Pat Patterson and Roddy Piper to name two. And Chris Jericho certainly also had his ability to get the crowd riled up. Which one was the better one? It's arguable, but it's obvious that both could get one hell of a reaction from the crowd.

[YOUTUBE]gOcZ8LCaq8w[/YOUTUBE]

Just look at this. If that's not getting a reaction from the crowd, I sure as hell don't know what is.

We went from talking about psychology in the ring to talking about entertainment promo-wise. Whatever. Eddie understood/felt the crowd alot better than Jericho did (to which he even admitted). That being the reason he was able to become more popualr than Jericho amongst the crowd.

[YOUTUBE]ClbMSss6ycY&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

An example of how much the crowd marked out for him.


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Now this is how you raise the bar in terms of entertainment as well as define it.

Except we're not. There's no limits to where we can compare, I believe I've already tried to establish that for you. If we can compare from 2005 down, Eddie Guerrero automatically has more years to showcase his talent than Chris Jericho due to him wrestling as a child and officially wrestling in promotions since 87.

Uh, so? My argument is STILL that Eddie had a bigger legacy when compared from 2005 and down. So therefore, even if Eddie having more years than Jericho is unfair, it doesn't matter. Why? Because that still led him to have a bigger legacy than Jericho in terms of 2005 and down. Now, if we're talking 2010 and down, Jericho has Eddie beat.

I would've still considered Chris Jericho the better wrestler back then I'm sure. But that's irrelevant more or less due to the fact that I didn't watch back then.

How about I ask my dad? he's followed the two closely... Wait. What's that dad? (Gasp!) You don't say?!...What?! (GASP!)...You Don't say?!...Unbelievable! Are you serious?!... Do you wana know what he said? He said Eddie was a better wrestler.

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. But yeah, Eddie was a better wrestler than Jericho. Though seeing as how I wasn't there either, the only real opinion I have to go on is by people who I know have watched the two closely. And majority wins, so Eddie wins. Of course, the people I generally ask follow Mexican wrestling, and all of them would prefer Eddie with ease. So yea...

I really doubt the come-back would've been considered larger due to more time spend away. You miss him or you don't miss him. You can't possibly start to miss someone more because a few months longer passed by, except for the beginning. Due to the fact that you're not gonna notice them missing for a week or two's time. Yet you'll notice it when they've been gone for a few months. There's hardly any difference in terms of feelings for one being missed because another year passed by.

Nice logic and all, but try mine on for size...

You see a relative one day and all of a sudden they decide to move. They move to some other country and never see them again for a good 7 years. Throughout that time you deeply miss them. Every year, you miss them even more and long to see them again. Now when you do see them, you litterally "MTFO" over them being back. Now, had they only been away a few months, the feeling of "MTFO" won't be as great as it would with the many years that you didn't see them.

Eddie Guerrero is a good example of this. I doubt someone is missing him more because we hit the 5th year since he passed away.

Bolonie!!! I miss him more now!!11!!!

On a serious note, Eddie can't be a good example seeing as how he will never have a chance to return because he's...well...dead.

 

[Ferbian]

You do realize that all you did in this quote was re-state everything I said before you. We I have already established that the initial exposure was due to the family. However, it was all on Eddie to build his own legacy after that. If you think about it, same thing can be applied to Chavo. He was part of the same family, so does that mean he get's a bigger legacy? No, of course not. Chavo never really did anything *spectacular* that can compare to the likes of Eddie (or Chris) in terms of legacy (and everything else). Do you see what I am saying? Eddie's LEGACY can be only be achieved by one thing: himself.

Yet the very fact that his initial exposure wasn't due to his own talent should obviously disqualify him a bit. He was catapulted forth due to being a Guerrero. Chris didn't have that, and yet he still managed to scratch and claw his way to the top of the business.

Chavo has his own legacy, yet he's still a Guerrero and it also helped his initial exposure. However he wasn't as talented as Eddie was, and therefore he's obviously not as big of a name in the business.

So, while Chavo as well as Eddie have maintained quite a legacy themselves, and Eddie's being bigger than Chavo's it still doesn't make any difference to the fact that they were catapulted forth into the attention stream of the crowd due to being Guerrero's. If your family has a history of great wrestlers, you pay attention to the new breed. If you don't have that kind of attention from your family name, you make it for yourself. Chris Jericho did just that.

Also, just to clear it up, legacy can't be achieved right away; you have to build toward it.

Of course. Yet one gets a quicker access to a legacy if you get the proper platform to it. Eddie had the platform, Jericho didn't. Yet Jericho still got more than far enough by his own name.

Never said it makes Eddie have the bigger legacy, but I wil say that it does contribute to the legacy and impact Eddie has made in the wrestling world. Which in ECW, Eddie built the bigger legacy.

Sure, yet the exact same thing could be said about Chris Jericho. Who impacted the wrestling world by suplexing Taz. Wrestling great different-style matches with more or less any of the big names of ECW back in those days.

Chris Jericho wasn't exactly a main eventer in ECW, but he was a top mid-carder (at least from what I remember). Also, Eddi was a top mid-carder as well. The specifics are rather faint in my memmory so correct me if I'm wrong.

True I wouldn't recognize neither one of them as main eventers during their ECW stints. Yet Chris Jericho got to feud with the top tier guys, where as Eddie got to feud with the great mid-tier wrestlers.

To put it simple. Jericho got to feud with the very focal point of the ECW promotion. The very guys that the ECW fans came to watch every time. Taz, Foley, Sabu, RVD, Shane Douglas and 2 Cold Scorpio. Eddie Guerrero? Dean Malenko and 2 Cold Scorpio primarily.

But say Chris was a main eventer, and Eddie a mid carder, that should hardly make a difference in the overall legacy they achieve [in ECW]. Legacy has more to do with how you will be remembered and Eddie has his winning ticket with introducing a new style of wrestling to the hardcore fans. Sure, Chris may have his main event stuff, but in the end it doesn't matter because Eddie will most likely be remembered more due to his incredible matches.

How your remembered, as well as what sort of impact you made. Was Chris Jericho remembered in ECW? Yes. Was Chris Jericho making an impact in ECW? Yes. So was Eddie though, but it could be argued who made the biggest impact. And I'm sure neither one of us would agree.

Another [minor] attribution to the lucha libre style of wrestling. Eddie was a lucha libre wrestler, Ferbs. Whether you saw it that way or not, he was. That's fact.

Spoiler

Luchadores are traditionally more agile and perform more aerial maneuvers than professional wrestlers in the U.S. who, more often, rely on power moves and strikes to subdue their opponents. The difference in styles is due to the independent evolution of the sport in Mexico beginning in the 1930s and the fact that luchadores in the cruiserweight division (peso semicompleto) are often the most popular wrestlers in Mexican lucha libre.[6] Luchadores execute high flying moves characteristic of lucha libre by utilizing the wrestling ring's ropes to catapult themselves towards their opponents, using intricate combinations in rapid-fire succession, and applying complex submission holds. Lucha libre has several different weight classes, many catered to smaller agile fighters, who often make their debuts in their mid-teens. This system enables dynamic high-flying luchadores such as Rey Mysterio, Jr., Juventud Guerrera, Super Crazy and Místico, to develop years of experience by their mid-twenties.[7] A number of prominent Japanese wrestlers also started their careers training in Mexican lucha libre before becoming stars in Japan. These include Gran Hamada, Satoru Sayama, Jushin Liger, and Último Dragón. With so many weight classes, Mexico has the largest number of professional wrestlers in the world.

Spoiler

The Lancashire phrase "catch as catch can" is generally understood to mean "catch (a hold) anywhere you can". As this implies, the rules of catch wrestling were more open than its Greco-Roman counterpart which did not allow holds below the waist. Catch wrestlers can win a match by either submission or pin, and most matches are contested as the best two of three falls. Often, but not always, the chokehold was barred. Just as today "tapping out" signifies a concession, back in the heyday of catch wrestling rolling to one's back could also signify defeat. Frank Gotch won many matches by forcing his opponent to roll over onto their back with the threat of his toe-hold.[5]

Many of such novel techniques arose out of cross cultural exchanges with Jiu Jitsu proponents.[6]

The rules of catch wrestling would change from venue to venue. Matches contested with side-bets at the coal mines or logging camps favored submission wins (where there was absolutely no doubt as to who the winner was) while professionally booked matches and amateur contests favored pins (catering to the broader and more genteel paying fan-base).

The impact of Catch Wrestling on modern day amateur wrestling is also a well established. In the film Catch: the hold not taken, US Olympic Gold Medallist Dan Gable talks of how when he learned to wrestle as an amateur the style was know locally, in Waterloo Iowa, as Catch as Catch Can.

I'm still thoroughly convinced that Eddie Guerrero had more of a catch wrestling style, with a parts of Lucha Libre implemented into it.

Uh...Change ECW as a whole? The entire purpose of the new style of wrestling was to show case a new STYLE of wrestling to the ECW fans. Which Malenko and Eddie did phenomonally and which the entire crowd took a great liking to. Hello! It's fricken ECW, of course they would NEVER change from being EXTREME to being more ground-based. Completely illogical.

Yet the very fact that it never left a permanent change to ECW or a permanent thing to truly remember and see showcased into the future shows that it doesn't really matter much if Eddie Guerrero managed to do shitloads of great wrestling matches there. ECW remained a hardcore promotion, and after Benoit, Eddie, Dean and Jericho left. Well then there really weren't much more to the good old matches these guys put on. It was gone and forgotten.

^ There you go. Exactly the kind of IMPACT Eddie made on ECW. Pay attention to the crowd. Do you see how much they respected them? The crowd was all over them; asking for more; excited/clapping at every turn. This is the IMPACT Eddie made. The one that will be remembered forever.

Of course there's respect for them. Yet the same can be said for Jericho. Remember how Chris was called Lionheart before he came to ECW? Remember how the ECW fans payed tribute to him, as well as the knowledge about his past by instead of chanting Chris Jericho, they were chanting Lionheart? That very moniker remained with him throughout his entire ECW stint, so much that he wasn't called Y2J Chris Jericho during his ECW One Night Stand entrance. No it was Lionheart Chris Jericho.

[YOUTUBE]f0FrWsQkjyI[/YOUTUBE]

See what I mean?

As for, Chris being able to use lucha libre wrestling, well yeah, he did. But do you want to know a little secret? Ok...Compared to Eddie and Dean, Jericho sucked. Want to know another secret? Every Mexican or person that watches meixcan style wrestling on a daily bases will tell you that.

That might be true that he wasn't as much of a Lucha Libre knowledged wrestler as Eddie was. Yet Chris Jericho for an "outsider" if you will adapted to the style extremely well. Rey Mysterio would tell you that.

Yeah, guess so. And seeing as how I wasn't there watching WCW and WWF compete with each other, I can't say for sure what is fact and what is not. All we can go by is on opinions we've heard. From what I heard, WCW's most under-rated talent was from the cruiserweight. Yet, it was the best thing they had going.

I'm guessing it's due to the very fact that they weren't praised enough, yet people still believe it was the thing that people mostly enjoyed to watch. Some of the former WCW cruiserweights and other talent has said that it was the best thing going on at least. Chris Jericho being one of them.

I would classify Eddie and Rey at the time more like Upper mid-carders rather than just mid carders. Reason be because the whole Eddie and Rey situation that had developed on Smackdown was like the 2nd best story (feud) Smackdown had going at the time. The first being of course the World title feud. Either way, Eddie remained as one of the top dogs.

Sure upper mid-carders. Yet they're still in the mid-card primarily. That changes nothing really.

And all of that can also be said about Chris Jericho while spending his time back in the mid-card. His feud with Shawn Michaels for one, or his feud/teaming with Christian which were highly entertaining as well I would say. I'm sure others agree.

Sure, he did continue feuding with top talent. Though most of his time after his Undisputed reign, he spent it in the mid-card feuding with the likes of Christian. It wasn't really until 2005 when he started feuding with Cena that he had re-established himself at the main event. Eddie on the other hand, rose to the top little by little until he became champion. Afterwards, he may have gone down to upper mid-card level. But he was still atop dog nonetheless.

Yet you're completely neglecting Shawn Michaels as well. And a brief feud with Goldberg as well.

And in the main time Eddie Guerrero was still shuffling around in the mid-card. He continued to do that up till 2004, where as Chris Jericho had already reached the top, and gone down a bit again to further his legacy in the mid-card. Something which showcased him as being able to do practically any kind of program in any part of the card. Which is a thing that helped him severely after his return as well.

Irrelevant, dude. My argumenbt is 2005 and down, you're going to high. Lol.

Yet therefore you're automatically neglecting part of the whole debate. The argument should be able to cover their entire careers.

You do realize that's like me saying "What if Jericho had never made it to the Hart Dungeon, would he have gotten to where he is now without it?" When comparing legacies, you don't deal with "what if's". You deal with what's there---the facts.

Sure. Yet it's simply one way of explaining how their initial exposure to the business or way of getting into the business would've been limited extremely without the very thing that they got from the beginning. Without the Harts Chris probably wouldn't have gotten into the business at all, or very easily. Yet the same could be said for Eddie who practically only got into the business due to it being in his blood.

How Eddie got to where he was (whether it be because of his family or not), it does not matter, the FACT is that he did what he did to get there.

How he got there is just as much of an importance to the argument as what he did to get there. For example Hulk Hogan got to be a big name due to how he was featured in Rocky 3, and Vince seeing the popularity transcending over to his professional wrestling career just shows how he capitalized on it.

Bunch of Mexican legends including El Hijo Del Santo. More, I just can't remember their names clearly.

That's fine. Yet Chris Jericho has defeated just as big names, if not bigger names to the professional wrestling business.

True. But overall, people will remember people because of their greatest attributes. And for Eddie, it would be his popularity. Also, Legacy is more closely tied to popularity than accomplishments. Though, I guess this is arguable.

I wouldn't necessarily say Eddie's popularity was his greatest attribute. It came along with his greatest attribute which was the ability to entertain. The same can be said about Chris, who is just as much of an entertainer as well as a great act.

This was a rather confusing quote, but from what I understood, I will say:

Sure, accomplishment still adds to the overall legacy one achieves, but it is popularity that more or less adds more to the legacy, Like you stated, Shawn Michaels; in terms of title accomplishments, it wasn't much. However, Shawn will be most remembered by the numerous and glorious matches that he had. Whereas Eddie will be remembered by how popular he was. Jericho by whatever he's remembered by and so on. However, Eddie's popularity attribution outshines Jericho's whatever. Meaning, he will [most likely] be remembered more than Jericho was---thus, generating the greater legacy.

Popularity isn't always the biggest attribute to ones legacy. Because of the very fact that if you're hugely popular but accomplished jack shit you're not gonna be remembered for much. There's some rare cases where other things could be said like Koko B. Ware, yet the majority of wrestlers are remembered mostly for their accomplishments and what they did for the business rather than how immensely popular they were.

But when you add the totals, the more you have been spread, the better. Especially when we're talking the world.

Not necessarily. You can have a "small" and consistent following all around the world, yet you're not gonna be significant compared to the HUGELY over star in one mainstream country. Stone Cold was hugely over due to his exposure in America. And his popularity and legacy will kick Eddie Guerrero's any day.

Varies on what country you're talking about. Going by your example, if Eddie pinned a legend from Mexico, El Hijo Del Santo. It wouldn't mean as much in the US as it does in Mexico because people care more in Mexico about it, than they would in the US. Vise-versa for Jericho pinning someone like Hogan.

That's ridiculous. Hulk Hogan is such a big name all around the world that it would be much more of an impact the whole world by pinning Hogan than it would by pinning a national legend.

Probably not discrimination in particular. But the facts are the list WAS small when compared to the number of whites that achieved better records than that of foreigners. Also, the Mexicans had it worse than Europians.



Yea, but it goes without saying, list is small. Do me a favor and when you reply to this quote, merge this one and the one above this so that we only have to talk about race issues in one section of the debate.

Wish granted.

Yet have you ever considered it might have been due to the lack of ability to truly push them? Or for that sake the fact that they remained loyal to their home country? I'm sure Kenta for one could be easily pushed in America, yet he's a loyal Japanese wrestler.

And yes the list is small. Yet it still changes nothing in terms of the very fact that they did actually accomplish something.

Technically, you can still get support from the fans even if you're heel. How is that done? Through "Boo's" and talking about how great of the heel they are.For example, Ric Flair, guy was heel most of his career, yet it's safe to say everyone loves him.

That's because Ric became the guy you loved to hate. The same could be said for Triple H and many others. Chris Jericho included. The very fact that he also has the crowd practically chanting his name in small sections of the crowd should be more than enough to attribute to his popularity even as a heel. As well as the very fact that he is greatly cheered in Canada no matter what.

Yes, but it's safe to say Eddie was loyal to the promotions he was in as well. For example, WWE. It was often said, by Vince McMahon himself, that Eddie was a great LOYAL worker. Linda and Stephanie also commented on this if I'm not mistaken.

And same can be said about Chris Jericho. A guy who still stayed with promotions for a while and garnered a fanbase. As well as still managing to travel around and get a great following in other promotions. He was even one of the few guys that ventured to WWE during the time where WCW was still going fairly well. Yet Eddie went to WWE back when WCW slowly started dying down in 2000.

That's a falicy. It's not a sound argument. Sure, it seems logical but it's not true. If you are dedicated to something you have to be passionate about it. For example, I cannot be dedicated to lifting weights if I don't have passion for it. My lack of passion would effect my overall dedication I have to it. Eventually, without passion, I will start to get lazy and not want to lift weights at all. There in by effecting how dedicated I was to lifting weights. So you see? Passion affects the dedication you have for something. So you can't have one without having the other.

Yet that's what I'm trying to tell you, you don't have to be passionate about a job to be dedicated about it.

We went from talking about psychology in the ring to talking about entertainment promo-wise. Whatever. Eddie understood/felt the crowd alot better than Jericho did (to which he even admitted). That being the reason he was able to become more popualr than Jericho amongst the crowd.

[YOUTUBE]ClbMSss6ycY&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

An example of how much the crowd marked out for him.

[YOUTUBE]vhwimaLXh3M&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]BsqCesKLypw&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Now this is how you raise the bar in terms of entertainment as well as define it.

That's nice. Chris Jericho however was able to garner a reaction from the crowd like few others just as well. Chris Jericho has the ability to really get the crowd hating him, as well as he has the ability to make them cheer like hell.

[YOUTUBE]Hhyti4Zm1g0[/YOUTUBE]

Also attributes to the great popularity that Chris Jericho had instantly when coming to WWE.

And sure you could argue that it was due to a return from not being featured consistently. Yet how would you explain this one then?

[YOUTUBE]lMFyeoVmqcg[/YOUTUBE]

And of course you cannot forget the numerous segments Chris had in WCW when making fun of Goldberg. According to Chris Jericho the crowd got so insanely behind it that they practically wanted to see Goldberg kill Chris.

[YOUTUBE]p3ZgsOxpGGY[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]Y4mHbgtOHd4[/YOUTUBE]

Uh, so? My argument is STILL that Eddie had a bigger legacy when compared from 2005 and down. So therefore, even if Eddie having more years than Jericho is unfair, it doesn't matter. Why? Because that still led him to have a bigger legacy than Jericho in terms of 2005 and down. Now, if we're talking 2010 and down, Jericho has Eddie beat.

There's so much wrong with this argument. You're neglecting the fact that Eddie Guerrero had more years in the business prior to Chris Jericho getting into the business in terms of when they debuted to 2005. Yet you're saying we can't argue for Chris Jericho's 2008-2010 period of wrestling? That's pretty much bullshit dude and you know it.

How about I ask my dad? he's followed the two closely... Wait. What's that dad? (Gasp!) You don't say?!...What?! (GASP!)...You Don't say?!...Unbelievable! Are you serious?!... Do you wana know what he said? He said Eddie was a better wrestler.

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. But yeah, Eddie was a better wrestler than Jericho. Though seeing as how I wasn't there either, the only real opinion I have to go on is by people who I know have watched the two closely. And majority wins, so Eddie wins. Of course, the people I generally ask follow Mexican wrestling, and all of them would prefer Eddie with ease. So yea...

Yet you've asked some. Not everybody. There's obviously gonna be some that prefers Eddie, and some that prefers Chris Jericho.

Nice logic and all, but try mine on for size...

You see a relative one day and all of a sudden they decide to move. They move to some other country and never see them again for a good 7 years. Throughout that time you deeply miss them. Every year, you miss them even more and long to see them again. Now when you do see them, you litterally "MTFO" over them being back. Now, had they only been away a few months, the feeling of "MTFO" won't be as great as it would with the many years that you didn't see them.

Not really no. I guess it applies to the various different people. On one hand you've obviously got people like you that starts missing more after a year. And on the other hand you got people like me that makes no difference if it's 1 week or 10 years.

On a serious note, Eddie can't be a good example seeing as how he will never have a chance to return because he's...well...dead.

Of course it's a fine example. I'm not missing Eddie more due to it being his 5th anniversary than I did when it was his 4th anniversary.

 

[TUFFY54]

As great as they both are, I would have to say Jericho. Eddie was a great wrestler and good on the mike, but Jericho brought that rock star persona to the ring that few have before and none really have after. To me, Jericho was also a better all around wrestler.