KB Answers Wrestling Questions

[Rayne]

I was having the peak value vs. career value discussion with someone yesterday. If you're unfamiliar with it, the idea is that to be an "all-time great", there's a certain amount of service time required- but there's also "peak value", which is when for a small amount of time, someone is absolutely leaps and bounds above everyone else- but doesn't really put in the amount of years where you could call them an "all-time great".

The classic example is in baseball, where people will call Randy Johnson the greatest left-handed pitcher of all time, but they're always sure to also mention Sandy Koufax's five years where he was the Literal Left Hand of God. The discussion I had yesterday had nothing to do with professional wrestling, but it did get me thinking about how the peak vs. career value discussion would apply to professional wrestling.

OBVIOUSLY, the patron saint of peak value in professional wrestling would be Goldberg, but you have a good memory for these sort of minutiae. Do you know of some other examples of people with otherwise unimpressive careers, but for a short while were spectacularly awesome? (Whether that be in terms of card position, match quality, or whatever metric you care to use.)

 

[klunderbunker]

What is the reason behind that title change? The Shield one I get it, they wanted Shield vs New Day, but they even created the video package for Brock vs Jinder, it seems rather suspicious to change that now.

I think it's a combination of the company realizing that there's no interest in Lesnar vs. Mahal and it's not like Raw vs. Smackdown is all that thrilling of a concept. You need a big match to draw people in and Styles vs. Lesnar is one of their best options to do that. Also the idea of Mahal winning the title back in India is probably rather tempting.

I was having the peak value vs. career value discussion with someone yesterday. If you're unfamiliar with it, the idea is that to be an "all-time great", there's a certain amount of service time required- but there's also "peak value", which is when for a small amount of time, someone is absolutely leaps and bounds above everyone else- but doesn't really put in the amount of years where you could call them an "all-time great".

The classic example is in baseball, where people will call Randy Johnson the greatest left-handed pitcher of all time, but they're always sure to also mention Sandy Koufax's five years where he was the Literal Left Hand of God. The discussion I had yesterday had nothing to do with professional wrestling, but it did get me thinking about how the peak vs. career value discussion would apply to professional wrestling.

OBVIOUSLY, the patron saint of peak value in professional wrestling would be Goldberg, but you have a good memory for these sort of minutiae. Do you know of some other examples of people with otherwise unimpressive careers, but for a short while were spectacularly awesome? (Whether that be in terms of card position, match quality, or whatever metric you care to use.)

Well first of all, Warren Spahn.

Ultimate Warrior would be way up there. He debuted on the main stage in 1987, got hot in 1988, had a horrible title reign in 1990 and was all but done by 1992, save for a few brief comebacks here and there.

Tommy Rich, who had an acceptable career but for a brief time in the early 80s was over like free beer in a frat house.

On a far lower scale, maybe someone like Eugene, who wrestled in OVW for years and got hot in WWE for a few months before they completely screwed up the character and ruined the whole thing.

 

[tdmoon]

No valuable input here, I just wanted to give credit for a great question by Rayne and answer by klunderbunker. Really interesting topic, it's probably going to stew in my brain most of the day. kb name dropping both Warren Spahn and Tommy Rich made this one of my favorite posts ever.

I'm gonna' drop Carlton and Kershaw(much as I loathe to, being a Giants fan. At least I can still tab him with the "choker" label ) into the lefty discussion as honorable mentions.

 

[klunderbunker]

Kershaw has more to prove to me. Carlton was insanely good and very underrated. I actually got to meet him earlier this year as he made an appearance at a store opening here. Nice guy.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

So how many world title reigns does AJ Styles have now?

 

[klunderbunker]

9. Two IWGP, five, TNA/NWA, two WWE.

 

[ShinChan]

Bunch of questions. Requesting for all in order. As in ranking.

Best 5 PPVs by TNA/IMPACT in all-time?

Best 5 PPVs by WWE from 2011 to now?

Best 5 PPVs by WWE before 2011?

Best 5 TakeOvers?

Best 5 Lucha Underground episodes of all time?

Best 5 ROH PPVS of all time?

Best 5 WWE matches from 2011 to now?

Best 5 WWE matches before 2011?

 

[klunderbunker]

Bunch of questions. Requesting for all in order. As in ranking.

Best 5 PPVs by TNA/IMPACT in all-time?

Best 5 PPVs by WWE from 2011 to now?

Best 5 PPVs by WWE before 2011?

Best 5 TakeOvers?

Best 5 Lucha Underground episodes of all time?

Best 5 ROH PPVS of all time?

Best 5 WWE matches from 2011 to now?

Best 5 WWE matches before 2011?

....no.

 

[ShinChan]

Oh. Fine. Was just gonna watch those reviews and then watch them. No problem.

 

[klunderbunker]

Oh. Fine. Was just gonna watch those reviews and then watch them. No problem.

I'll do some of those but that kind of a list would take me way too long.

 

[ShinChan]

Sure. No worries.

 

[Sai the Uganda Guy]

With War Games around the corner, I have a couple related questions:

What is your favorite War Games match?

Do you think there's any chance, given NXT's previous history of guest commentators and all, that Tony Schiavone be brought in to call the War Games match? I feel it'd be a nice touch of nostalgia, and they did have him do an old school rundown of the Starrcade card in a recent video so it's not too far a stretch, I don't think.

 

[klunderbunker]

1992.

I really can't see it happening, though he has been calling some indy shows of late.

 

[Da Prophet]

I watched the segment between Foley and Triple H on Smackdown where Foley comes out as Mankind and starts talking about needing to have a replacement for their match. Foley takes the mask off, unbuttons his shirt to reveal the Cactus Jack t-shirt and the place goes mental.

How remarkable is it that Foley changing his shirt got the city of Chicago going absolutely crazy? It's so simple, there is no big change. It's just a freaking shirt and throwing away a mask but it comes off as this major shift in mentality where Foley is at his most violent and Triple H is now in huge trouble.

 

[klunderbunker]

I watched the segment between Foley and Triple H on Smackdown where Foley comes out as Mankind and starts talking about needing to have a replacement for their match. Foley takes the mask off, unbuttons his shirt to reveal the Cactus Jack t-shirt and the place goes mental.

How remarkable is it that Foley changing his shirt got the city of Chicago going absolutely crazy? It's so simple, there is no big change. It's just a freaking shirt and throwing away a mask but it comes off as this major shift in mentality where Foley is at his most violent and Triple H is now in huge trouble.

Combination of three things:

1. The simpler, the better is often the case.

2. So much of it is how well Foley sells it. When he's Mankind, he's hunched over and looks more scared than scary. The mask and shirt come off and he's standing up a bit straighter, moving a bit faster, and the eyes change. Also, it had been established earlier.

3. Foley had established the Cactus Jack character before. Fans knew what they were getting because they had seen how violent and nuts he could get. Compare that to the Demon, which is just a cosmetic thing. Balor, at least on the main roster, wrestles the exact same style with or without the pain. Down in NXT, he gets more violent, moves differently and often wears a costume to the ring. The fans knew it was going to be something different and it was different.

Oh and you didn't have Cole saying

THE DEMON WILL BE APPEARING AT THIS SHOW!!!

MAKE SURE TO SEE THE DEMON!!!

THE DEMON IS FINN BALOR'S ALTER EGO!!!

It's a case of showing instead of telling, which Foley knew how to do as well as almost anyone.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

What are the three best WWE PPVs from before the Attitude Era?

 

[klunderbunker]

If you don't count it as Attitude Era, Canadian Stampede makes the list. If you do (which you probably should):

Wrestlemania X
Wrestlemania III
Summerslam 1992

 

[Vageena Hertz]

Have they ruined Shelton Benjamin's return by making him tag with Gable?

 

[klunderbunker]

Nah. Shelton didn't have a huge upside and this is as good as anything else.

 

[Alex]

Is it funny that people reckoned Enzo would flounder yet he's carrying an entire division (even if it is meh)

 

[klunderbunker]

Eh kind of but I'm not sure how long this can work.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I'm in no hurry to have this answered, because I have a feeling it will be kind of a lengthy answer, but can you give me some info on Billy Graham ripping Backlund's title in half and what that meant at the time?

 

[klunderbunker]

Not as complicated as you think.

They wanted a new design and it meant the old one had to be dropped.

Seriously that's about it.

 

[AnthonyM4]

If Carmella doesn't cash in her MITB and win the title in Boston(her hometown) at Clash of Champions, when do you think she will? You think they will actually hold off on it until wrestlemania(I don't see it)?

 

[Aeon Mathix]

Some Adam Cole recommendations please? Matches, promos etc.