Kayfabe Gimmick Grudge Match #5: "Y2J" Chris Jericho vs. "Codebreaker" Chris Jericho

[D-Man]

(Please read and follow ALL RULES AND MATCH STIPULATIONS below and at the bottom of the page prior to voting!!!)

*DING* *DING* *DING*

"This contest is scheduled for one fall with no time limit.
It is a LADDER MATCH for the title of
GIMMICK SUPREMACY!"

Vs.

​

​

The Gimmick Supremacy Title Belt will hang above the ring as both men battle each other in a grueling ladder match.

In one corner, you have the "Ayatola of Rock and Rolla"... Y2J Chris Jericho!! This man is the first ever undisputed WWE champion after defeating the Rock and Steve Austin in the same evening, and he's well-versed in ladder matches. He's competed in multiple ladder and TLC matches against the likes of Chris Benoit and Christian, and has been a participant in the Money in the Bank ladder match at Wrestlemania.

Across the ring, stands the self-proclaimed "best wrestler in the world at what I do"... the Codebreaker Chris Jericho!! This man is a former World Heavyweight Champion and undisputed Tag Team champion aside the Big Show. He's also competed in his share of ladder matches, defeated Shawn Michaels at No Mercy in 2007 and recently competing along side the Big Show against Degeneration X in a TLC match at the TLC Pay Per View in 2009.

May the best gimmick prevail!!!

Rules
1. This is a KAYFABE matchup, so treat it as such. That means, it can't be about who you "like more" or who "DUZ MORS THENZ FIV MUVS". If these guys were seperate entities and actually had to face off against each other, where popularity didn't matter and it was all about the match itself, who would win?

2. This WILL NOT be a complaint thread. Do not use this as an excuse to complain about a wrestler. Remember, this is a match, not a popularity contest. Besides, we already have threads dedicated to bitching and moaning. Go cry somewhere else.

3. All Wrestlezone thread rules apply here. This is a NON-SPAM FORUM. All stances must be explained and good reasoning must be given, otherwise you will be infracted.

4. Do not vote unless you give an EXPLANATION! Voting without posting is a waste. We want to discuss this stuff, people!

 

[ZeroVX]

Oh, DAMN, this is hard...

Y2J Jericho has the first Undisputed Champion accolade to his credit, as well as multiple excellent matches with some of the all-time best. People loved him, or loved to hate him. Having said that, outside of the Undisputed reign and one overturned win over Triple H, he's mostly been in the I-C Title picture. Therefore, Codebreaker Jericho would win this. He held the World Title three times in one year, and had one of the best feuds of all time with Shawn Michaels. He also put on an excellent match with Ricky Steamboat last year, and was part of a great tag team with the Big Show, holding the Unified Tag belts for most of 2009.

Y2J may have been around longer, but Codebreaker accomplished much more in a very short time, and can easily accomplish more. He's the winner in this.

 

[Miko]

Tough one, I am a fan of both gimmicks, but I think I give the edge to the Ayatollah as far as who would win, while the Codebreaker Jericho got off to a great start fact is he's turned into the worlds biggest jobber, or the worlds best jobber, I mean, he lost to fat bald Kane and R-Truth and I cant remember the last time R-Truth won a match.

Ayatollah Jericho was generally consistent, beating Rock and Austin in one night, beating Kane in last man standing matches (The Monster Kane, not current Kane), Main Eventing WrestleMania's. While he had his losses he was more successfull for a longer period. Current Jericho is putting over the younger stars at the moment, and Y2J Chris Jericho is just the sort of guy who'd get the push. I think I'll have to go with the Ayatolla on this one.

 

[Trill Co$by]

Y2J... The man had everything from speed to technical wrestling. He was a 2 time WCW World Heavyweight Champion, multiple time IC Champion, defeated HHH for the WWF title, and became the first ever Undisputed champion, holding the belt from Unforgiven to Wrestlemania.

Granted, Codebreaker has a lot more range on the mic with his big words, but he's too busy hiding behind Big Show and he's gotten fat.

 

[Theo Mays]

I'm going with Y2J Jericho here. Both are great characters and either one could win this match. But Y2J Jericho was when Jericho was at the top of his game beating the likes of Austin, Kane, Rocky, etc.. The only big name guys I think Jericho has defeated since his return have been HBK and Rey.

EDIT: Missed that this was a ladder match. Definitely gives the edge even more to Y2J Jericho.

 

[CH David]

I'm going to have to go with the Ayatollah of ROCK AND ROLLA!! Seriously, chalk this up to Y2J and let's be done with it. Y2J was in countless classic ladder matches in his time before leaving. Seriously, his ladder match with Chris Benoit at the 2001 Royal Rumble was excellent. He has been in more Ladder matches (I will include TLC for the purpose as well) than Codebreaker Jericho. If you look back, Y2J has been in 2 regular ladder matches, both for the IC Title, which he won. He also competed in 2 TLC matches, having won TLC 3 on Smackdown with Chris Benoit as his partner, and then in the first Money in the Bank match.

The Codebreaker, sure he has had success since coming back. But not near as much success in a Ladder match. He beat HBK for the World Heavyweight Championship, but after that, Money in the Bank, not won, TLC match with Big Show vs. DX, not won. He seems to have lost a 1/4 or 1/2 a step. This would no doubt be a great matchup, but give me Y2J.

 

[Da Prophet]

Had to go with "Codebreaker"Jericho.Jericho has gotten better as of late and has been getting some big wins since returning in 2007.He's won the World title in the scramble,beating Batista,Kane,Mysterio,JbL.All of which have won World titles.Batista with 5 title wins.Kane with 1,Rey with 1,JbL with 1.He has gotta so much better and when tagging with Show they were the most dominent tag team of 2009.They beat tag team after tag team.And with it being a ladder match he will surely win and destroy Y2J.

So CodeBreaker Jericho wins it for me!

 

[Platypus Palsy]

I picked Y2J. I feel that Y2J has an overall better body of work than Codebreaker Jericho. The ladder matches that he has under his belt also helps considering this is a ladder match. Having beaten The Rock and Stone Cold in the same night is an amazing accomplishment and what he received from doing it is equally amazing, the first Undisputed Title reign in the WWE. Y2J has won more ladder matches and I'm pretty sure he's been in more than Codebreaker.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

For me, it's going to have to be Codebreaker Jericho. He's accomplished more in the short time he's been back from 2008 til now then he had in all the time from 99-05. You could chalk that up to no Austin or Rock or different product changes but at the end of the day, Codebreaker Jericho has won more titles than Y2J Jericho. The old Jericho was a mid carder specialist who had some success at the top, whereas Codebreaker debuted back at the top and has stayed there for a good period.

Onto the stipulation, I don't think it would make much difference. Jericho has been in two Ladder matches since he's been back (I'm not counting TLC matches), and he's won half of them. He won his match against HBK at No Mercy, and the ladder match he lost was at Wrestlemania 24 at Money in the Bank. I would take those odds anyday, since he's only facing the one man this time around.

 

[CH David]

Okay, can someone please tell me how much more Jericho has accomplished in his time from 2007 until now? I honestly don't get that portion of the argument. What, he won the World Heavyweight Championship twice, separated by an eight day reign by Batista, and the Unified Tag Team Championship? Oh wait, I forgot, he also had won the Intercontinental Title twice. Yes my mistake on that one.

I can't agree with that at all. Within his first year in the WWE, he won the Intercontinental Championship three times, and also the European Championship. Hell he even beat Triple H for the WWE Championship, yes it was a fast count and decision reversed so it never occured, but damn it he still got it. Jericho waited almost a year for his first WHC run when he made his return. So tell me how that is more in short time. In his 6 years as Y2J, he won the IC Title 7 times, WCW Championship Twice, the first Undisputed Champion, European Champ, and Tag Team Champion 3 times. So two reigns equaling about 3 months, two IC reigns, and 1 Unified Tag reign in 2 1/2 years, is accomplishing more?

And if MRC wants to get technical about Ladder matches, Y2J was in 3, losing only Money in the Bank. 2/3 is better than 1/2. Although in a touche moment, Y2J is 2/2 in singles Ladder matches, and Codebreaker is 1/1. So there is that.

 

[NWODXRULES]

I think Y2J would win. He beat 2 of the greatest wrestlers of all time in one night to win the undisputed belt. Not to mention he's in better shape, is quicker, and more agile. It seems like the Codebreaker is on a bit of a losing streak. I could see Codebreaker going for the Codebreaker and Y2J reversing it into the Liontamer and getting the tap out victory.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Here's the issue with Y2J. He had a tendency to get DISTRACTED. Sure, he was vastly more entertaining. His promos with guys like Chris Benoit (on a boat, with a goat, when the score is tied, as a blushing bride...), Stephanie McManmade (bottom feeding trash-bag ho), The Rock (think back to his debut), Mick "Mike" Foley, etc.

But Y2J was a solid mid-carder with IC Title success. His only World Title came at a time when a) nobody was paying attention to him and gave him zero chance, and b) he was able to take advantage of the fact that his two opponents - Rock and Austin - had other major feuds going on and were dealing with Invasions and such.

Codebreaker Jericho - the current incarnation - returned with FOCUS. Single minded of purpose. He arrived on Raw and instantly challenged WWE Champ Randy Orton. When he felt the fans were holding him back, he said "screw it" and went his own way. He got inside Shawn Michaels' head any way he could, including punching his wife in the mouth. Codebreaker Jericho is not easilly distracted and would win this match.

 

[CH David]

Here's the issue with Y2J. He had a tendency to get DISTRACTED. Sure, he was vastly more entertaining. His promos with guys like Chris Benoit (on a boat, with a goat, when the score is tied, as a blushing bride...), Stephanie McManmade (bottom feeding trash-bag ho), The Rock (think back to his debut), Mick "Mike" Foley, etc.

But Y2J was a solid mid-carder with IC Title success. His only World Title came at a time when a) nobody was paying attention to him and gave him zero chance, and b) he was able to take advantage of the fact that his two opponents - Rock and Austin - had other major feuds going on and were dealing with Invasions and such.

Codebreaker Jericho - the current incarnation - returned with FOCUS. Single minded of purpose. He arrived on Raw and instantly challenged WWE Champ Randy Orton. When he felt the fans were holding him back, he said "screw it" and went his own way. He got inside Shawn Michaels' head any way he could, including punching his wife in the mouth. Codebreaker Jericho is not easilly distracted and would win this match.

So IC, you mean to tell me, if it were to come down to climbing a ladder, or performing a lionsault in this situation, that Y2J would go the distracted route? That is the vibe I am getting. Now I don't know about you, well you are a huge Jericho fan, so I would hope you remember, when he was Y2J, he had two excellent singles ladder matches, one which I consider an all time favorite against Chris Benoit, and one against a ladder match veteran, Christian. These two he did on his own. In his ladder match with HBK for the WHC, he had Lance Cade come out in some sort of assistance. Whether you believe Cade helped or not is another issue, he still came out and bought Jericho a little bit of time while he was hung on the ladder. If you need "help" (using it lightly) how are you better?

Now you say he was a mid-carder around this time. I ask, so what? Does being a mid-carder now mean you cannot be prevalent in a match like this? Jeff Hardy was a mid-carder against the Undertaker in his ladder match on Raw. Granted I was young at the time, but I was marking out like crazy that entire match, still do sometimes hoping it has somehow changed. I just don't get why you say that he was in the mid-card, unless it was in response to my post on championship reigns.

I know that I brought up his title reigns because people were saying Codebreaker accomplished more in his two years back than his first six years. But seriously, he had two very awesome ladder matches as Y2J, and one against HBK that I had forgotten about until reading up and watching the matches. If you can give me something more than just focus, IC, perhaps I can agree with you to an extent. But from what I see, he isn't that much more special in the ring as the Codebreaker than he was as Y2J. In singles ladder matches, Jericho thrived at 3/3, but 2 of those came as Y2J, in what were, in my opinion, better matches.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

My vote is for Y2J. IMO he was much more entertaining than codebreaker and had better more exciting matches. That being said Y2J did share the IC belt w/ a woman so that does kinda take him down a peg as far as thinking Y2J can beat codebreaker but he also beat Austin and Rocky to be the 1st undisputed champ. Either gimmick sure did know how to make an entrance though.. Interupting 3rd generation superstars and IMO two of the best ever Rocky an Orton. But all and all I think Y2J would pull out some way to get up that ladder before the codebreaker could stop rambling all his Webster's vocabulary.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

So IC, you mean to tell me, if it were to come down to climbing a ladder, or performing a lionsault in this situation, that Y2J would go the distracted route?

No way. I am speaking from more of a macro point of view. Y2J would be so much more concerned with pandering to the crowd during the match that he'd likely make a mistake or miss a spot.

Worse still, I think there's a chance he'd be too busy trying to make jokes and be funny in the weeks leading UP to the match that he's be less prepared than Codebreaker Jericho.

Finally, Codebreaker Jericho would view each match as a step towards the World Title. Y2J seemed to get too wrapped up in the match itself.

when he was Y2J, he had two excellent singles ladder matches, one which I consider an all time favorite against Chris Benoit, and one against a ladder match veteran, Christian. These two he did on his own. In his ladder match with HBK for the WHC, he had Lance Cade come out in some sort of assistance. Whether you believe Cade helped or not is another issue, he still came out and bought Jericho a little bit of time while he was hung on the ladder. If you need "help" (using it lightly) how are you better?

Bear in mind that Jericho got in Shawn's head in the weeks leading up to that match far more than Y2J had to Benoit. Also, remember that Jericho's ladder match with HBK was a MOTY. That's significant.

Now you say he was a mid-carder around this time. I ask, so what? Does being a mid-carder now mean you cannot be prevalent in a match like this?

Makes him an underdog, yes.

Jeff Hardy was a mid-carder against the Undertaker in his ladder match on Raw.

Amazing match. Jeff lost, BTW.

But from what I see, he isn't that much more special in the ring as the Codebreaker than he was as Y2J. In singles ladder matches, Jericho thrived at 3/3, but 2 of those came as Y2J, in what were, in my opinion, better matches.

Codebreaker Jericho, for one, takes fewer risks that Y2J did. After a while, it seemed that EVERYBODY had the Lionsault scouted. Codebreaker Jericho still has the walls AND has a far more surprising move in the Codebreaker / Facebreaker. That's important. It's why Austin's stunner, Orton's RKO, Jake's DDT, etc. have all been so effective. From out of no where. Y2J didn't have that dynamic.

 

[CH David]

No way. I am speaking from more of a macro point of view. Y2J would be so much more concerned with pandering to the crowd during the match that he'd likely make a mistake or miss a spot.

But that never stopped him from winning his two previous Ladder matches before.

Finally, Codebreaker Jericho would view each match as a step towards the World Title. Y2J seemed to get too wrapped up in the match itself.

Okay, so Codebreaker Jericho is going to go about his business, and not put on a show, well go out to impress the crowd. That makes sense, he doesn't care about the crowd. But Y2J is going to be wrapped up in the match. Okay, now tell me for a second, if Y2J is more worried about this match, that he will kick it into high gear and try to win it? Or are you saying that he will go balls out and his overzealousness will get the better of him?

I would think if Y2J gets too wrapped up, and into the match, he is going for the win no matter what. Because, that is all that really matters at this point, is the Ladder match for the best Jericho. No future World Title shots, at least not here.

Bear in mind that Jericho got in Shawn's head in the weeks leading up to that match far more than Y2J had to Benoit. Also, remember that Jericho's ladder match with HBK was a MOTY. That's significant.

He also punched his wife in the face a few months prior to make sure he would stay. I don't think it would be too difficult to get in Shawn's head after that. I'm sure if I did something like that to anyone with a wife (I never would, just making a point) they would want to get even with me, and if it got to be a Ladder match, they would want to punish me.

Also, MOTY I'm iffy on. I loved Jericho vs. Benoit, and think it should've been a candidate, and didn't really feel Jericho vs. HBK. But to each their own, right?

Makes him an underdog, yes.

I honestly don't get this. They are roughly the same weight, maybe Codebreaker has 10 pounds on him, about the same height. I mean this isn't Rey Mysterio vs. Batista where there is a clear underdog status when going from upper mid-card to Main Event. The only thing Codebreaker has going for him would be experience, which isn't everything. Y2J has his youthfulness and maybe 1/2 a step more quickness.

Amazing match. Jeff lost, BTW.

I know. Still doesn't mean I didn't think he wouldn't win. Also doesn't mean I look at it any different than I used to. Always get excited for it, even knowing the outcome.

Codebreaker Jericho, for one, takes fewer risks that Y2J did. After a while, it seemed that EVERYBODY had the Lionsault scouted. Codebreaker Jericho still has the walls AND has a far more surprising move in the Codebreaker / Facebreaker. That's important. It's why Austin's stunner, Orton's RKO, Jake's DDT, etc. have all been so effective. From out of no where. Y2J didn't have that dynamic.

He may take fewer risks, but in a match like this, against an opponent such as Y2J, he wouldn't be able to rest on the fact he takes fewer risks, and hope Y2J takes an unnecessary one. He would need to beat Y2J down, taking away his legs, and possibly his back.

I do like that you bring up the Codebreaker as an out of nowhere move, which I can't disagree with. The one thing I do think is a possibility, and maybe an oversight on your part, Y2J could possibly counter the Codebreaker into the Walls of Jericho, or go harder with the Liontamer. But you seem to be forgetting about the Breakdown/Stroke. Jericho added that nice little move as Y2J. Is it out of nowhere? No, but if Codebreaker Jericho is getting up slowly with his back turned, boom, Y2J hits it and climbs the ladder for the win.

Also, I believe that Y2J has one intangible that the Codebreaker doesn't have now. Heart. Y2J may never have looked at the bigger picture, Codebreaker does, but that could lead to overlooking a current opponent. Y2J used his heart to persevere. Codebreaker doesn't have heart now. He goes about his business but that is it.

Your move sir.