Just because you're being booed doesn't mean you're drawing.

[Sedated]

This is something I've thought to myself at various points in time while watching the WWE. Generally, when there's somenody on the TV that I can't stand and everyone is booing him. I'm going to try to avoid naming any specific wrestlers as not to get caught up in "Are they over or not" sort of argument.

With that said: A lot of people seem to give me the impression that if the crowd is booing that means they care and that the heel is doing their job. I think over the years the WWE have proven they go by this as well. As long as the wrestler is getting a emotional response from the crowd, he's doing his or her job.

You know, I said I was going to try to avoid examples but let me just use one. Try not to get too caught up in it as it's just a personal example: Jillian hall, when she sings I mute the TV or change the station. I doubt anyone actually enjoys these segments. With that in mind, they've gone on for quite a long time and the only reason I can think of for it is that people boo her and her singing draws heat and so WWE views that as a good thing. The problem I have with this is how is something that makes me switch programming ever a good thing? Let's say I went to a WWE event, Jillian starts singing. What am I going to do? Chances are I'm going to cover my ears and start booing along with the rest of the sane crowd. Possibly make a break for the bathroom/nacho stand if I'm lucky enough to be positioned near the exit, but I digress. The point is that there's a huge difference between people booing because they don't like this person yet they're interested/ captivated and people booing because they actually want the person standing in the ring to have a sack of bricks dropped on their head.

What I'm basically trying to say is the 1st type of heel draws heat and ratings, the second type of heel draws heat and loses ratings. I really feel this is a key point that the WWE has neglected over the many many years.

Thoughts/opinions?

 

[2012isbs]

I agree WWE needs to realize the difference between Edge heel where you to see what he's gonna do next and the Jillian I'm going to change the channel until her singing thing is done in fact I hate her so much I marked out when DX put the trash can on her head when she started singing if only that happened every time she started to sing. So I geuss as a heel she's doing her job, but yes there are change the channel heels and watch what's gonna happen next heels.

 

[Pickle]

People seriously change channels when Jillian Halls sings? I've heard people say that before, but I thought it was just hyperbole. Why would you change the channel? There are a lot of worse things shown on Raw each week that are supposed to be taken seriously. At least these bits are played for comedy and are meant to get the audience interacting with the show.

As for the topic at hand. I suppose you're right. Being booed does not mean you're drawing. But those who are already getting booed could very easily be utilised to draw. Everyone hates Jillian Hall. Jillian Hall wins women's title. Holds it for a while. People grow to hate her even more. Then a new face diva comes along and vows to take the title so we don't have to endure any more terrible singing. Jillian wins the first match using heel trix. So the rematch is set for PPV. People rally behind new star, especially after she beats mega-heel. Someone somewhere buys a t-shirt.

Obviously, using a diva scenario isn't a great example because divas don't draw a dime, but same idea.

 

[The Gribbler]

Everyone hates Jillian Hall. Jillian Hall wins women's title. Holds it for a while. People grow to hate her even more. Then a new face diva comes along and vows to take the title so we don't have to endure any more terrible singing. Jillian wins the first match using heel trix. So the rematch is set for PPV. People rally behind new star, especially after she beats mega-heel. Someone somewhere buys a t-shirt.

Well the idea is good but we have long since learned that the Vince of today is all about the ratings. I don't see him pandering to the crowd and sacrificing ratings. I really think he has lost the ability to tell the difference between annoying heat and proper heel heat. And honestly I do change the channel when Jillian comes on screen.

It reminds me somewhat of Vickie Guerrero, I didn't hate her for any of the right reasons, she just really annoyed me. She got the same treatment.

But Heels like Orton etc. Make you stick to your screen to see who will beat the hell out of them or who will one up them on the stick.

Its an important difference.

 

[tbp82]

This is where wrestling has gotten scrwed up. This goes back to a time before most of us were probably born. Before the Monday Night War, before Stone Cold Steve Austin and despite being my favorite wrestler of all time before The Rock. You are not supposed to like heels. I am in 100% disagreement here I don't care how you get booed as long as you get booed it can be because you are stupid (Abraham Washington), crazy/obsessed (Randy Orton), overly cocky (my favorite type of heel think The Rock when he was in the Nation of Domination). I think that sometime watching wrestling you can't tell who are the faces and who are the heels. That is where even though I can't stand him I give John Cena credit he is a throwback babyface a happy happy joy joy almost Popeye/Superman like. I like the clear lines between faces/heels and yes I think any heel someone hates so much that they actually change the channel (I know that defeats the purpose in a way) is doing their job perfectly.

 

[HBK-aholic]

The heels job is not usually to draw viewers - the heel gives the face an enemy, which is the most important thing - without the heel no one would watch as there'd be nothing to see. The 'drawing' factor of a heel comes in when you want him to be beaten by the face he's feuding with, and you tune in to see that happening.

 

[tLight]

I skip ahead when anything involves DX, Triple H, Christian, Hornswoggle, Rey Mysterio, Mixed Tag Matches, Abraham Washington, the Bella twins, Carlito, Primo, Diva's Matches that dont involve Maryse, Raw Rewinds, Smackdown rebounds, and all the other garbage filler that is in WWE programing.

 

[SuperKick36]

The heels job is not usually to draw viewers - the heel gives the face an enemy, which is the most important thing - without the heel no one would watch as there'd be nothing to see. The 'drawing' factor of a heel comes in when you want him to be beaten by the face he's feuding with, and you tune in to see that happening.

I agree that the heel is MEANT to be the face's enemy... but I do think that heels can sometimes be so good that they draw viewers.

There are people that I work with that have no idea about wrestling, think it's stupid, and sometimes even mock me for watching it... but even they know who Randy Orton is and have even tuned in just to watch him and see what he does/says next. Randy hasn't even hit the pinnacle of his career yet either. While I believe faces draw by being the good guy/superhero that you want to watch WIN, the heel is that villian that you want to see just so you can see his new devious actions/plans.

I went to the Raw show this monday, and it made me realize how much wrestling was DESIGNED for the live crowd. Randy Orton may be my new favorite wrestler after Raw, but I hate him. But I may just have that hometown bias going on.

 

[2TheMax]

You bring up a good subject and I thought about this myself too but about JBL. In my opinion, I think he was boo'ed primarily when he turned heel in 2004 not because he was a good heel on the mic, it had to be because the WWE decided to make him a main-eventer right after Brock Lesnar left, shoved him down our throats, gave him a year long title reign, he sucked in the ring, he never was a draw, and he just didn't deserve what was given to him. It was at that time that the WWE was going downhill, so my and the fan's frustration of WWE actually running with this guy went to JBL. Has to be that.

 

[angry_panda]

The 'drawing' factor of a heel comes in when you want him to be beaten by the face he's feuding with, and you tune in to see that happening.

Wow Randy Orten and Edge must be the worst heels, I tune in and hope they win, but then I'm a mark for heels so.........

I do remember when I was younger watch SCSA or the rock (which ever was the face) getting screwed out of titles, and wanting to scream at the XX-heel that had done it. Ahh I miss the joyful days of watching WWF as a kid.

I think as long as your face is good enough, a heel will draw heat just by beating him, especially when he uses his heel-bag'o'trix. So as long as they know who the heel is, I don’t think it matters if you are booing him and fascinated, or booing him and wanna change channel. They'll turn back to see the face, and hate the heel for making them change in the first place.

 

[The Gribbler]

I think as long as your face is good enough, a heel will draw heat just by beating him, especially when he uses his heel-bag'o'trix. So as long as they know who the heel is, I don’t think it matters if you are booing him and fascinated, or booing him and wanna change channel. They'll turn back to see the face, and hate the heel for making them change in the first place.

But thats not how a heel works, the heel cannot rely on the face being over. If the face isnt over its a heels job to make people hate them so much that the face WILL be over by the time the face beats them.

 

[Spaceman Spif]

Anybody remember poor X-Pac? He's a good one to point out in this thing. A majority of the people booed him, not because he was a heel and they loved to boo him, they booed him because he sucked and actually annoyed the hell out of people. I for one went to take a piss when ever he was on.

So yes there is a huge difference between heel heat and hate/annoyed heat that Vince needs to figure out and deal with. If he can figure that out and weed out those who people just can't stand, then ratings might pick up a bit. However I do not think it makes that huge of an impact though as there are in my opinion not to many who draw X-Pac/Jillian Hall heat right now. I do believe whole heartedly though that heels can draw massive viewers. I love watching Randy Orton, I can wait to see who's gonna get punted or RKO'ed next. I boo him, boo him hard, but I just have to watch.

 

[Sedated]

This is where wrestling has gotten scrwed up. This goes back to a time before most of us were probably born. Before the Monday Night War, before Stone Cold Steve Austin and despite being my favorite wrestler of all time before The Rock. You are not supposed to like heels. I am in 100% disagreement here I don't care how you get booed as long as you get booed it can be because you are stupid (Abraham Washington), crazy/obsessed (Randy Orton), overly cocky (my favorite type of heel think The Rock when he was in the Nation of Domination). I think that sometime watching wrestling you can't tell who are the faces and who are the heels. That is where even though I can't stand him I give John Cena credit he is a throwback babyface a happy happy joy joy almost Popeye/Superman like. I like the clear lines between faces/heels and yes I think any heel someone hates so much that they actually change the channel (I know that defeats the purpose in a way) is doing their job perfectly.

That's the thing though. There's a line between hate and just being annoyed. There's also different kinds of hate. There is also booing simply because you don't care and so you want what ever is happening to move on.

This is especially true when it comes to certain more main event level stars or champions who are being shoved down your throat. Somenody else mentioned JBL and this is a perfect example (At least for myself.) There were times where I wouldn't watch smackdown simply because he was champion. It wasn't the kind of hate where I wanted to see him get beat up. It was the kind of hate where I just didn't care about him. I find him to be a terrible in ring wrestler and I find his promos to generally be drawn out and boring. (He does have a decent one here and there, but as a over whelming whole they did nada for me.) I thought he was a joke and so I generally could care less about anything he was doing. He just bored me on every level and yet he was champion and so I hated him and didn't want to watch a show centered around him. You can rest assured though that if I went to a WWE event, and he was there, I'd be heckling him as hard/loud as anybody else.

Vickey Guerro is another interesting one that someone brought up. She's not even a active wrestler. She's a middle aged woman, a mother of some odd number of children. I know she'd take a tombstone and what not here and there but as a whole this is someone you're not even expecting that someone is going to beat up. So where does that leave her? Are you supposed to look forward to someone wronging her in a non physical fashion? It's like she was only there for the sake of annoying you and that's that. How are you supposed to respond to that beside change the channel? Now she did draw huge amounts of heat but is that really a surprise? She's another reason I've stopped watching smackdown for in the past. At the very least I'd fast fwd her promos. I will say she drew more of a solid heel responce out of me when compared to JBL (who was just boring me) as she'd really get on my nerves. I just don't see how someone doing that in her role through out a entire show really fits in and what us as viewers are supposed to want to get out of it. If she was happy she was annoying and if she was mad she was probably even more annoying!

 

[angry_panda]

But thats not how a heel works, the heel cannot rely on the face being over. If the face isnt over its a heels job to make people hate them so much that the face WILL be over by the time the face beats them.

The point I was making is the reverse also applies, just like a heel cant rely on a face being over, a face cant rely on a heel drawing.

The example I was making was demonstrated perfectly by CM Punk, when he cashed in his MITB to take the belt off Hardy, he instantly started to Draw, it didnt turn him into a heel, but it rubbed the fans the wrong way in 5mins of TV time, you think it would have been the same if Edge had retained and Punk had cashed in on him?

When a heel is drawing on his own, and a face is over on his own, thats when a fued can be great. But a poor heel or a poor face can get a push in the right dirrection if the other person is good enough.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Wow Randy Orten and Edge must be the worst heels, I tune in and hope they win, but then I'm a mark for heels so.........

But you're one of those tiny minority of people who think "Ooh heels, must be great, I'm going to cheer for them because that makes me look cool". This doesn't even happen off in the internet in general. There'll be a few die hard fans who support their favourite heel or face, but in general, people don't pay to see heels, they pay to see the faces, because in real life, it's the good guys who you want to win.

 

[angry_panda]

But you're one of those tiny minority of people who think "Ooh heels, must be great, I'm going to cheer for them because that makes me look cool".

Not at all actually. If I wanted to look cool I wouldnt watch wrestling and post about it on internet message boards.

I'm a mark for quality.

I wish I could like Faces in WWe, but who are my options, Jeff Hardy, HHH, Cena.....can I even type it without shuddering....Batista, or I could like Edge Orten, Jericho and Punk. Face it (no pun intended), apart from an occasional funny promo from HHH or Cena the heels rule in WWe.

Things might start to change now HBK is back, and DX have re formed, I can hope anyway.

TNA on the other hand I much prefer the Faces, I really dislike the MEM.