It's time to....

[Fire Marshall Bill]

…turn Dolph Ziggler face.

Now I’m definitely not one of the guys that is a Ziggler mark, like so many of the others around here. But I’m also not blind. Dolph Ziggler can put on some good matches. He oversells sometimes, but not too drastically. And with the “smart” crowds going to many events he’s starting to become one of those heels that’s cheered enough that it’s quite audible on TV (see: this past Raw).

A lot of people on here say the best way for him to get his chance to shine is to break away from Vickie and Swagger (a sentiment I agree with). Let’s face it, there are 3 people right now you can go against and get an instant face response: John Laurinaitis, Michael Cole and Vickie Guerrero. So why not have Ziggler lose to Sheamus this Sunday at the expense of a botched assist by Vickie and/or Swagger? Have it send him over the edge and break free from them. Monday he comes out and cuts a face promo bashing them to seal it. Or build it a little slower, though they have teased it a little bit. I’ve heard interviews with Cena saying how Ziggler is one of the funniest guys in the back. Why not use that?

The last thing I want to harp on is his mic skills. Despite many marks on here saying he’s “great on the mic,” he’s not. He’s average. His heel promos often come off as forced and rehearsed. The advantage I see in faces is their mic skills don’t have to be as good as a heel because they do a lot of their talking with their actions. Plus, if he’s still not quite over, Ric Flair is probably going to return to a face reaction no matter what. He could still potentially back up Ziggler.

Between Orton’s status as questionable and Big Show going heel, the WWE could use another main event face. I say give Ziggler the ball and see how far he runs with it.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

It's not a bad idea and may be where they are headed. I'm really down on Ziggler, but I still think he adds something to the show. If WWE really wants to take a chance and take things a step further have Vicki and Swagger help Ziggler win the title and then have Ziggler get pissed because he didn't want their help. This gives Ziggler the B-title and separates him from the group all at once (double push). Going forward they can run a series of simple programs with him where the premise is Vicki finding new guys to go after him.

Again, I'm not a fan of Ziggler at all but if kept to the B-show title I don't feel there is much risk and maybe some reward of possibly turning him in to a fan favorite.

After Sheamis drops the belt, he can lose a funky rematch and move on to Raw without damaging his credibility too much.

 

[JaylisJayP]

People get down on The Miz for being a one-dimensional character, but I personally feel that The Miz has much better mic skills than Ziggler. So that said, turning Ziggler face and pulling him away from Vicky might not be the best move to get him over further. He'll much more quickly be exposed as a one-dimensional character that all the internet fans have put Miz down for lately.

With the stories that WWE are focusing much more on TV ratings, I can't see them caring much about how they package Ziggler of all people at the moment. The guy needs a better character than just being a "show off." It's generic, already been done, and he doesn't have the personality to pull it off. He's got the facial expressions, but nothing else.

I mention ratings because in this age of WWE, mic skills > wrestling skills in terms of draw. Just a fact.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I'm not the biggest Ziggler fan either, but he has a lot of potential. And his mic skills can masked more by turning him face. It's either that or let him hide behind Vickie until he disappears.

What might be a good idea is use the most obvious first feud, Swagger, to buy time until Flair comes back. Ziggler finishes up his feud with Swagger, and then with nothing to do, out comes Flair and says, "hey kid, I'll help you get right to the top." On from there.

I just think a face turn is a logical way to get him away from his show off gimmick, because it is generic.

 

[TakersBroski987]

I would like to see a Ziggler face-turn, and that could be the way WWE are heading. Heels are outnumbering faces in the main event picture at the moment, and a DZ face turn could help the balance a little more. The only problem is Vickie. She is such a heat magnet, the more casual fans are confused, when they see more "hardcore" fans cheering him. It was very noticeable in Miami, Chiacgo and Hartford, that the "smarky" crowd was behind Ziggler. WWE could just be waiting for Dolph to get cheers DESPITE his association with Vickie and Swagger, before officially turning him.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I'm impartial to Ziggler, he is good at times, he is poor at times.

His dramatic over-selling began to annoy me post-Wrestlemania. He needs to stop it, and stop it now! Shawn Michaels was the king of the oversell, like when you Irish Whipped him into the turnbuckle, he'd very cleary flip into the turnbuckle and make even the weakest of Irish Whips look devastating and it worked. Sadly for Dolph Ziggler, he is not nor will he ever be Shawn Michaels, so he can stop the over-selling, it's doing him no good.

Asides from that, in-reference to a possible face turn, how are you going to push a guy who uses "#HEEL" on a t-shirt, on all his merchandise, as his twitter name, as his YouTube account name and in various other ways? You can't. Dolph Ziggler got a good reaction on RAW because he had a good match, with Christian, does everybody realize that it is near impossible to have a poor match with Christian? If you don't you may want to. The guy was able to make Drew McIntyre look like a million bucks two weeks ago on Superstars.

You turn Dolph face by turning him on Vickie, what next? He'll get about three weeks of good reactions before they fade and Dolph gains what he has gained noteriety for, which is getting no reaction. Hell, the only reason he draws heat is because Vickie Guerrero is sent out to introduce him and that instantly riles the fans up. They aren't even booing him, they're booing what Vickie said moments beforehand and even Jack Swagger, Jack gains more heel heat than Ziggler does.

Congratulations to the guy on gaining a good reaction when he beat Christian, sadly for him, it is pretty obvious that Hartford had a smark-ish crowd. Ziggler always gets a good reaction in-front of smark crowds because for whatever reason the Internet fans and the fans who think something is cool, support Dolph Ziggler. Put him in a casual crowd, the common crowd you find most weeks sitting before a Monday Night RAW or Friday Night Smackdown ring and watch as Ziggles sinks to the bottom of the ocean.

Dolph Ziggler is much safer as a heel, he has an upper mid-card position, he has the heat magnet to gain him a reaction considering he is inept of doing so himself. He has his YouTube show and other projects and he even gets a match for the World Heavyweight Championship on Sunday. You turn him face, and he fails, Ziggler is done. The smart bet, is to play it safe and keep him heel.

 

[The Hardcore Kid]

in-reference to a possible face turn, how are you going to push a guy who uses "#HEEL" on a t-shirt, on all his merchandise, as his twitter name, as his YouTube account name and in various other ways? You can't.

Well, WWE has never made a #HEEL shirt, they've all been third-party. His tights do not say #HEEL anymore (you'd have to imagine WWE asked him to stop it; the whole "Show Off" moniker came about around this time). Twitter handles, as if that matters in the slightest, can easily be changed with no issues. I think keeping someone heel just because their Twitter handle says they're heel is a pretty ridiculous notion.

Not that I'm condoning Ziggler going face. I love Ziggler, and I don't think his overselling is a detractor at all. I think he's amazing at it and can make any wrestler look good. Dolph Ziggler can pull a 5 star match out of a broomstick. I think he'll have an easier time going forward as a heel simply because he's finally seeming to find his place on the mic and in his persona as the brash, arrogant narcissist. So, in effect, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Although he really does need to leave Vickie and Swagger.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Well, WWE has never made a #HEEL shirt, they've all been third-party. His tights do not say #HEEL anymore (you'd have to imagine WWE asked him to stop it; the whole "Show Off" moniker came about around this time). Twitter handles, as if that matters in the slightest, can easily be changed with no issues. I think keeping someone heel just because their Twitter handle says they're heel is a pretty ridiculous notion.

WWE are releasing Dolph Ziggler sunglasses soon, pink ones, that he could be seen wearing recently, and on the side it says "#HEEL." His pink t-shirt, the new one that WWE are promoting, he is wearing, says "#HEEL" on the back of it. Everything to do with the guy is based around him being a heel, it's what he built the foundations of himself on, but I can bet his ass he'll regret it eventually if he doesn't already.

 

[JaceEvans]

The guy was able to make Drew McIntyre look like a million bucks two weeks ago on Superstars.

Except that if you really watched Mcintyre carried most of the offense, all Christian did was take bumps. Mcintyre could look that good every week if he's given the time in the ring.

On to Ziggler, I really like him heel I just feel he needs to be on his own. Even if Flair manages him I have no doubt Flair would overshadow him i.e. what he did when he was with Styles. What he needs is to get some wins under his belt, if he went and beat Santino for the US title and then he could say he should be the number one contender every week for the WWE title since he's the US champ. I also believe he needs to become a lil more serious, maybe cut his hair but this time he can still keep it blonde just go with a shorter look.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Except that if you really watched Mcintyre carried most of the offense, all Christian did was take bumps. Mcintyre could look that good every week if he's given the time in the ring.

No, he really, really can't. Taking the bumps and selling the moves are what made Drew McIntyre look like a million bucks, that is what makes everyone looks like a million bucks, getting the offense is the easy part, but unless you've been partially blinded for the past two years you'll have noticed McIntyre isn't a great in-ring wrestler, he hasn't looked as good as he did against Christian in forever! McIntyre hit a few Suplexes and locked in a couple Headlocks, congratulations to him, it is the person on the receiving end that makes what he does effective, and in the end, Christian did what he does almost every week, he made McIntyre look better leaving the ring than he did entering it despite the loss.

 

[ABMorales787]

Bwahahahaha... Oh, this is serious? So many better choices and Ziggler is the one to pick? How deep down in the barrel does WWE have to reach into these days? First off where's this so called lack of faces anyway? You have Sheamus, John Cena, CM Punk and Christian. If you needed people to turn face, Daniel Bryan and Kane would be far better choices than Ziggles. I'd much rather have guys like Sin Cara and Ryback rise up to the main event than having Dolph Ziggler, really. Ziggler is a nice attraction, but interest was never a strong point of his.

 

[JaceEvans]

No, he really, really can't. Taking the bumps and selling the moves are what made Drew McIntyre look like a million bucks, that is what makes everyone looks like a million bucks, getting the offense is the easy part, but unless you've been partially blinded for the past two years you'll have noticed McIntyre isn't a great in-ring wrestler, he hasn't looked as good as he did against Christian in forever! McIntyre hit a few Suplexes and locked in a couple Headlocks, congratulations to him, it is the person on the receiving end that makes what he does effective, and in the end, Christian did what he does almost every week, he made McIntyre look better leaving the ring than he did entering it despite the loss.

Really? Really?
Really?

[YOUTUBE]WRISewszUV4[/YOUTUBE]

and here I was thinking that you needed to have charisma, the look, the intangibles to be a good WWE superstar. Sh*t if all you have to do is sell your opponents moves really really well then guys like Shelton benjamin and John Morrison are locked to be future world champions...O wait that's going to be kinda hard since there not even with the company anymore.. my point is anyone could take bumps and make there opponents look good, Hell that's why Slater is still working for the company.

Mcintyre is GOOD in the ring If im in the minority in thinking that then so be it, it doesn't make it less true. He uses the whole ring in the match and I've never seen him botch anything. His facial expressions really pull you in as well as all the other little stuff. He's the victim of circumstance, he made some mistakes and rubbed people the wrong way in the back. He's paying for them ten fold...but he's only getting better and looks to be adding more muscle as well. I still see a bright future for him and yes one day I believe he will be world champ.

 

[akathelaw]

A question for those of you who think Ziggler needs to turn face:

How do you get him over as a face? What is it about the guy that will make the crowd cheer for him? Selling moves well is NOT a babyface characteristic. Looking at successful babyfaces over the years, you have to have a few things going for you:

1. Being cool - Hogan, Macho Man, Warrior, Bret Hart, HBK, Scott Hall, The Rock, Austin, John Cena, and Jeff Hardy are all well liked by fans because people think they are cool. If you're a face and nobody thinks you're cool, you end up being Ted Dibiase, Lashley or Chris Masters. Some people might think Ziggler is cool, but I'm sure he comes off like a poser to many.

2. Seeming unbeatable - Either you're hard to pin because you have immense skill in the ring, or you're a big muscular force that is difficult to overcome. A successful face needs to be so good that fans believe they can beat anyone. Ziggler currently comes off as someone who gets lucky when he wins. Not good for a face turn.

3. Crossover appeal - Yeah, Ziggler is reminiscent of classic wrestling heels so if you're familiar with wrestling history his gimmick makes sense. To people who are tuning into WWE for the first time, what does Ziggler do or say that will hook them and make them want to invest in watching his career?

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Really? Really?
Really?

You're not The Miz, plus that isn't even inquisitive anymore, just stupid.

[YOUTUBE]WRISewszUV4[/YOUTUBE]

Oh look, a tribute video designed to impress, yet is just McIntyre's bland expression meshed in with random maneuvers and flashes from his titantron videos. Not even his tribute can impress people.

and here I was thinking that you needed to have charisma, the look, the intangibles to be a good WWE superstar.

You might want to learn the definition of charisma...

cha·ris·ma/kəˈrizmə/
Noun:
1. Compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others.
2. A divinely conferred power or talent.

...and then learn that despite how fond you are of McIntyre the majority of fans and Internet based posters alike have already voiced the general consensus on McIntyre. He hasn't got charisma. When he appears on RAW or Smackdown most are surprised, it's basically the same as a Big Foot sighting as it rarely happens and even when it does he loses and in a comfortable fashion. Some may blame his ex-wife, sadly McIntyre was on the slippery slope to nowhere-ville before Tiffany hit her time of the month in a hotel bedroom.

Sh*t if all you have to do is sell your opponents moves really really well then guys like Shelton benjamin and John Morrison are locked to be future world champions...

Actually both names you mentioned have one common comparison, both had major difficulty when speaking, Morrison has admitted he was told that they needed him to improve on his promos, Shelton has admitted he was told that he needed to be more of a character instead of simply acting himself. Hence why Benjamin is now in Ring of Honor and is currently in one of the best wrestling tag teams on the planet, because that way he doesn't have to speak, his abilities and success aren't based off his character, instead all he has to do is wrestle and that is something he is very good at.

O wait that's going to be kinda hard since there not even with the company anymore..

To be fair, McIntyre may as well not be with the company anymore the way his career has dwindled. This is a guy that Vince McMahon rubbed himself, appeared on Smackdown for the first time, at that time, in two years and announced him as "The Chosen One" and still McIntyre couldn't gain heat, couldn't get over and couldn't cut a good promo. Hence why he routinely features on the "B" level shows or in dark matches, still regularly on the losing side.

my point is anyone could take bumps and make there opponents look good, Hell that's why Slater is still working for the company.

Mcintyre is GOOD in the ring If im in the minority in thinking that then so be it, it doesn't make it less true.

Kind of does. If ten people tell you someone is a racist and you state otherwise, that doesn't mean your opinion is anymore powerful than that of the ten people. That is called a God complex. Its why people vote for government positions and on the passing of bills; the more the people, the more the opinion, and again you can easily search the name "Drew McIntyre" on this forum, most threads created for him are his marks pleaing for a push which will never come unless he completely alters himself and others shitting all over him. That doesn't make for a popular Superstar and it doesn't make for a good wrestler.

Tyson Kidd is someone who is used similar to McIntyre, but more people want to see Kidd pushed because more people respect Kidd because Kidd's wrestling ability has been well established and is very prominent. And these two are basically used as enhancements, in the same position on the card.

He uses the whole ring in the match and I've never seen him botch anything. His facial expressions really pull you in as well as all the other little stuff.

His facial expressions? You mean the cold, bland, depressing look he was told to drop when he walked out onto the stage which instantly got no reaction? No heat? That is why McIntyre was being de-pushed, he was being de-pushed before Tiffany and him ever had that spat. They've tried with him, he just isn't working, you can only try to amend a problem so many times before people give up and if he keeps failing, eventually WWE will get tired, and give up.

He's the victim of circumstance, he made some mistakes and rubbed people the wrong way in the back. He's paying for them ten fold...but he's only getting better and looks to be adding more muscle as well. I still see a bright future for him and yes one day I believe he will be world champ.

He is the victim of circumstance. The circumstance being they placed a lot of pressure on him as "The Chosen One" and he failed, now people see him as a joke. He didn't come true, he failed, his IC Championship run was decent at best, again he was being promoted as a big heel but wasn't gaining heat, and when you can't even do that, why do you think they'd see use for him, or reason in pushing him?

He has improved in the ring, but he still has a lot of improvement to make. I can see you're a Drew McIntyre fan, but you need to look at the reality, coming off the back of Wrestlemania they had a great chance to push him, they tried leading into Mania and nobody cared. There was even a thread on this forum asking who cared if Teddy Long fired him, and nobody was crying out for more McIntyre.

Reality of the situation is, he is hanging around the likes of JTG and Yoshi Tatsu in the useful department, and if it wasn't for WWE's roster being so thin at the moment, chances are he'd be on the cusp of being unemployed. They've tried three times with him now and each time, he hasn't delivered. You can like him and I respect that, but don't be blind, won't get you anywhere.

 

[akrassikauda]

Gotta agree with Dragon Saga here. After he turns face whats next all that does is put him against Swagger or Del Rio. What about Sheamus he hasnt had a good feud with the title yet. Him and Ziggler could have a good back and forth throughout the summer plus Sheamus can get some much needed attention as one of the top guys before the smarks start saying his reign is getting stale. Oh wait that's already happening .

Another thing about Ziggler that the smarks are missing is if you take out Vickie put in Flair nothing changes for Ziggler he's back at square 1. The boards will light up about how he cant get over on his own and that he needs a mouthpiece to gain heat yadda yadda yadda. Right now i think he's ok with Vickie now just two things creative needs to work on. 1) Let him talk more. I've watched a few WWE Download episodes and he can bring for it on the mic if you wont allow him to talk live tape it. 2) When was the last time Vickie cheated for him and he got the win on a consistent basis, doing this helps out both of their characters and if he's a champ it makes the face struggle tougher. Theres nothing wrong with him being a good heel who's good in the ring but has back up but I see a lot of things wrong with a face turn.

 

[JaceEvans]

You're not The Miz, plus that isn't even inquisitive anymore, just stupid.

...and you speak for all? Your not CM punk, your not the voice of the voiceless

McIntyre's bland expression

bland expressions..HA that's a laugh! For someone who has Orton as the avatar it takes a lot of balls to say someone else has bland expressions. Tho I'm sure your just using that avatar for irony sake...right?

To be fair, McIntyre may as well not be with the company anymore the way his career has dwindled. This is a guy that Vince McMahon rubbed himself, appeared on Smackdown for the first time, at that time, in two years and announced him as "The Chosen One" and still McIntyre couldn't gain heat, couldn't get over and couldn't cut a good promo. Hence why he routinely features on the "B" level shows or in dark matches, still regularly on the losing side.

Yes no argument here that he's been jobbing lately but I accredited to Vince wanting him to pay his dues let's be serious here if Vince didn't want him to be there he wouldn't. Win's and losses mean NOTHING in Professional Wrestling, if you need proof just look at Sheamus before his second title run the dude was jobbing every week. They could easily have Mcintyre start winning since I don't know if you know this but the matches are predetermined.

my point is anyone could take bumps and make there opponents look good, Hell that's why Slater is still working for the company.

I agree 100%

Kind of does. If ten people tell you someone is a racist and you state otherwise, that doesn't mean your opinion is anymore powerful than that of the ten people. That is called a God complex. Its why people vote for government positions and on the passing of bills; the more the people, the more the opinion, and again you can easily search the name "Drew McIntyre" on this forum, most threads created for him are his marks pleaing for a push which will never come unless he completely alters himself and others shitting all over him. That doesn't make for a popular Superstar and it doesn't make for a good wrestler.

but it kinda doesn't... A lot of Germans thought Hitler would make for a good leader a majority even, where they right Mr. Saga? and since when did Majority rule on the internet boards mean two quarts of rhinoceros piss? WWE isn't the United States Government or any form of Democracy, in fact if you liken it to something it would be a Dictatorship with Vince as supreme ruler.

He is the victim of circumstance. The circumstance being they placed a lot of pressure on him as "The Chosen One" and he failed, now people see him as a joke. He didn't come true, he failed, his IC Championship run was decent at best, again he was being promoted as a big heel but wasn't gaining heat, and when you can't even do that, why do you think they'd see use for him, or reason in pushing him?

I don't see him as a joke. If you look back towards the end of his push he was gaining reaction and heat not Vickie heat but still measurable. I think his death kneel was from Triple H when they had a tag-match at some PPV and I remember him seeing something about who the hell is Drew Mcintyre? I mean to HHH credit that's the best way to build up your young stars just Sh*t all over them! Couple that with his backstage immaturity and his wife leaving the company they brought him down to jobber.

He has improved in the ring, but he still has a lot of improvement to make. I can see you're a Drew McIntyre fan.

Agreed but I liken him to a definite blue chipper you seem to think of him more as enhancement talent so that's where I draw the line.

How could you tell?

Reality of the situation is, he is hanging around the likes of JTG and Yoshi Tatsu in the useful department, and if it wasn't for WWE's roster being so thin at the moment, chances are he'd be on the cusp of being unemployed. They've tried three times with him now and each time, he hasn't delivered. You can like him and I respect that, but don't be blind, won't get you anywhere.

WOW Tatsu JTG Mcintyre I kind of want to reach thro my monitor and slap you for putting them on the same level. Mcintyre is heads and shoulders above both of them, just because there on the same show doesn't mean there on the same level.

Let's be honest he really only got 1 good push, the tag team title reign and Kelly Kelly thing don't count. If you remeber Sheamus got a HUGE push the first time that really didn't work out, hell he went over CENA but he couldn't get over with the fans so they had job for a couple of months then they Pushed hard again and OMG did he catch on. Your throwing dirt on the face of Mcintyre for coming up short on his first push...Yet time and time again we are shown that with the right timing and a good push wrestlers can catch on fire and I believe Mcintyre is capable of that.

 

[Headman]

There is absolutely nothing about Dolph Ziggler that screams baby face. If you want Ziggler to get lost in the shuffle and swept under the rug then yes, turn him face. If you like the guy, you better hope and pray this never happens.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I guess maybe I should've posed it as more of a question. I just feel like Ziggler's been in the same spot for way too long now. He's rollercoastered up and down the card for what seems like forever now. All the while being stuck behind Vickie. I just feel they should shit or get off the pot with him.

 

[The Hardcore Kid]

WWE are releasing Dolph Ziggler sunglasses soon, pink ones, that he could be seen wearing recently, and on the side it says "#HEEL." His pink t-shirt, the new one that WWE are promoting, he is wearing, says "#HEEL" on the back of it.

Source?

The shirt he wears every week, this one: http://www.wweshop.com/item/dolph-ziggler-show-off-pink-t-shirt/DolphZiggler/01-16098

Does not say HEEL anywhere on it. No shirts made by WWE (to my knowledge) have said #HEEL. There have been third party ones (such as ones made by BarberShopWindow.com) that say it that Ziggler himself wears, but WWE (again, to my knowledge) has not made any.

Where are the sunglasses? I haven't seen those around yet?

 

[Headman]

Why is the answer for some wrestling fans always "turn him face/heel". Is this really how you guys think? Is the only way to change a character or to freshen someone up to change their alignment? How about trying something new with his current character? How about putting a mic in his hand and give him something worth fighting for. Give him something better than an after thought title match that he's most likely going to lose. So far all we really know about Dolph Ziggler is that he's a hell of an athlete with a good look. His mic work is still in question and his character development is minimal. Which it's funny to see people wanting him to turn face when he hasn't even fully developed his heel persona.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Source?

The shirt he wears every week, this one: http://www.wweshop.com/item/dolph-ziggler-show-off-pink-t-shirt/DolphZiggler/01-16098

Does not say HEEL anywhere on it. No shirts made by WWE (to my knowledge) have said #HEEL. There have been third party ones (such as ones made by BarberShopWindow.com) that say it that Ziggler himself wears, but WWE (again, to my knowledge) has not made any.

Where are the sunglasses? I haven't seen those around yet?

http://www.wweshop.com/category/Men/TShirts-Kayfabe

Ziggler is the poster boy for the kayfabe t-shirts. He's been wearing pink sunglasses, wore them at Wrestlemania and the RAW following, he announced on Twitter WWE were sending them into production and are being sold as #HEEL Shades. Now if you don't mind, I must attend to the McIntyre mark...

...and you speak for all? Your not CM punk, your not the voice of the voiceless

Considering I'm a fan, that would make me the voice so techinically that is redundant.

bland expressions..HA that's a laugh! For someone who has Orton as the avatar it takes a lot of balls to say someone else has bland expressions. Tho I'm sure your just using that avatar for irony sake...right?

No, I'm not having a laugh. "Broken Dreams" hits and everyone would come to their feet, in excitement, he was gifted one of the most sinister themes to have ever been handed to a WWE Superstar. Once he walked through that curtain his bland demeanor just sucked the life out of any situation. And you know what the difference between Orton and McIntyre is? Randy gets pops, he gets the biggest pops out of any WWE Superstar today and that is including CM Punk, Cena etc, etc. McIntyre has nor may he ever get a pop. Kid, stop living in a dream, won't get you anywhere.

Yes no argument here that he's been jobbing lately but I accredited to Vince wanting him to pay his dues let's be serious here if Vince didn't want him to be there he wouldn't. Win's and losses mean NOTHING in Professional Wrestling, if you need proof just look at Sheamus before his second title run the dude was jobbing every week. They could easily have Mcintyre start winning since I don't know if you know this but the matches are predetermined.

Difference is, they turned Sheamus losing into an angle, and when he picked up one win he ended up picking up several in succession. Also, don't dare get sarcastic with me child, I've gone against my usual means of debating which ripping up apart. I'm arguing with a mark here for Christ sake, but I'm doing it so that you can understand reality, which you obviously have no contemplation of. McIntyre is a jobber, he has been a jobber for nearly a year now, that isn't a thing of wins/losses, that is a thing of nobody cares.

but it kinda doesn't... A lot of Germans thought Hitler would make for a good leader a majority even, where they right Mr. Saga? and since when did Majority rule on the internet boards mean two quarts of rhinoceros piss? WWE isn't the United States Government or any form of Democracy, in fact if you liken it to something it would be a Dictatorship with Vince as supreme ruler.

Hitler campaigned and once he won the election, he went against his word, you may want to learn History for one and two know that you're going against someone who is studying for a B.A in Arts so chances of you going far are slim to none. Vince McMahon has the right however, seeing as he is the Owner, bit that isn't the point I made. In terms of what the general consensus is, McIntyre sucks and very few care for him, the general consensus will always ride over the minority. That is the way life works, gets used to it, or It'll smack you from behind.

I don't see him as a joke. If you look back towards the end of his push he was gaining reaction and heat not Vickie heat but still measurable. I think his death kneel was from Triple H when they had a tag-match at some PPV and I remember him seeing something about who the hell is Drew Mcintyre? I mean to HHH credit that's the best way to build up your young stars just Sh*t all over them! Couple that with his backstage immaturity and his wife leaving the company they brought him down to jobber.

No, he wasn't. McIntyre and Rhodes were holding the WWE Tag Team Championships and at that time there were reports of WWE being unhappy over both men and their progression. What happened? Rhodes stepped it up a notch while McIntyre stayed stagnent in his position of obscurity. Where are they now? Rhodes is feuding with one of the best wrestlers in the company over the Intercontinental Championship while Drew jobs to Sin Cara and Dean Ambrose in dark matches. You know who used to job in dark matches to the up and comers back in the early 00's? Funaki. I'd liken McIntyre's current position to Funaki's former one.

Agreed but I liken him to a definite blue chipper you seem to think of him more as enhancement talent so that's where I draw the line.

How could you tell?

Why is he out losing to Sin Cara? Why is he competing against Christian on Superstars who recently returned from injury and needs the fitness? Why is he losing to Johnny Curtis on NXT? Why is he losing to Dean Ambrose in dark matches? These aren't loses, their loses in enhancement. He is being used merely as a sacrificial lamb to those who don't hold longevity on the main roster or are yet to debut. You need to get with the program.

WOW Tatsu JTG Mcintyre I kind of want to reach thro my monitor and slap you for putting them on the same level. Mcintyre is heads and shoulders above both of them, just because there on the same show doesn't mean there on the same level.

He really isn't. I don't know how you think he is, but he really isn't. Neither of them received large pushes and failed miserably, they've still got warranty for a chance.

Let's be honest he really only got 1 good push, the tag team title reign and Kelly Kelly thing don't count. If you remeber Sheamus got a HUGE push the first time that really didn't work out, hell he went over CENA but he couldn't get over with the fans so they had job for a couple of months then they Pushed hard again and OMG did he catch on. Your throwing dirt on the face of Mcintyre for coming up short on his first push...Yet time and time again we are shown that with the right timing and a good push wrestlers can catch on fire and I believe Mcintyre is capable of that.

Sheamus gained heat after beating Cena though and following his original title reign. Hell, he has some heat going into that feud after he Brogue Kicked Jerry Lawler. McIntyre stomped on Matt Hardy's head against the steel step, threatened and bullied Teddy Long, had a reign as IC Champion, but still wasn't able to get over, whereas Sheamus was more than over by the time he'd won King of the Ring.

Once again, I understand you're a McIntyre fan; you come across as a mark though, so nothing you say is holding any weight. I've always looked at the guy from a realistic standpoint. He has a good look, he is okay in the ring, good at best, he has some microphone skills but because of his accent he needs to learn to speak more fluidly, he has some history and he has done some heel things, but he still isn't over. I've seen some of the biggest McIntyre marks on this forum admit he just doesn't hack it, you are no different, if you don't see it now, you'll see it eventually, just giving you the heads up.

 

[jbwphoto1]

On the current topic of Dolph, loved him since OVW before Spirit Squad was even born. We can have Vickie or Swagger cause him to lose to Sheamus on Sunday, but that should only be one of the points made for the trio to break up (kayfabe reason, along with Dolph pinning Swagger in the Four Way) with a few more months until it becomes final.

On the subject of Drew, please go back and watch last week's Smackdown match against Sin Cara. We were at the Smackdown taping and once Sin Cara's intro started, we knew Drew would be on the losing end, but he still had a good match. In watching a taped Smackdown last Friday, we realized Drew's work was past good heading towards great in that match.

Drew wrestled his part of the match, had to pick up and carry Sin Cara around the ring to execute his part of the match and then he had to take the one two three. This was even more evident on tv than in person somehow.

How long is Drew going to have to pay for having a "crazy" ex-wife?

 

[Silly Willy Nilly Vanilly in the Milly]

I can definitely see Mr. Ziggles as a face, but the fact that he is releasing all of his #HEEL merch kind of delays that.
But I could see him do well as a face, feuding with the likes of Daniel Bryan.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

http://www.wweshop.com/category/Men/TShirts-Kayfabe

Ziggler is the poster boy for the kayfabe t-shirts. He's been wearing pink sunglasses, wore them at Wrestlemania and the RAW following, he announced on Twitter WWE were sending them into production and are being sold as #HEEL Shades.

This is the most interesting thing that has come out of this discussion. Strictly from a fashion merchandising (which I have no experience in) perspective - who is the blue hell is buying cheap, pink, #HEEL, wrestler sunglasses? From that my initial reaction is that Ziggler is just playing his part on Twitter with a fake announcement that sunglasses are being mass produced and sold to the public to play up that he is cocky.

On the other hand, I could see WWE taking a chance creating pink sunglasses for kids and women if they intend on making Ziggler a popular babyface. This may be evidence of a change. A risk I still see as worth it as long as it stays on SD for a while.

Because just like a tree falling in the woods when there is no one around to hear it, if something happens on SD it really didn't happen.

P.S. - Drew McIntrye is nothing to be a mark over unless you are Mustang Sally.

 

[Peep]

http://www.wweshop.com/category/Men/TShirts-Kayfabe

Ziggler is the poster boy for the kayfabe t-shirts. He's been wearing pink sunglasses, wore them at Wrestlemania and the RAW following, he announced on Twitter WWE were sending them into production and are being sold as #HEEL Shades.

This doesn't change the fact that

A) You were absolutely incorrect about Dolph Ziggler's shirt saying "HEEL" on the back when it clearly does not.

and

B) That the kayfabe t-shirt line will soon be defunct. They're already knocked down to 50% off. Suggesting that failure of a product line would have any influence on creative story line development for Dolph Ziggler is ridiculous.

And finally, in what way are Ziggler's pink sunglasses "#HEEL shades"? Here's a picture of them:

The tweet that went along with that pic:

#ShowOff‬ ‪#PINK‬ stunner shades @WWEShop coming soon.....what do you think?

Dolph says nothing about them being "#HEEL" nor does the word heel appear on them. You using this merchandise angle to support your argument is just you talking out of your ass.