It never ceases to amaze me...

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

It never ceases to amaze me how people come to believe in ridiculous things, that are supported by literally zero historical or scientific proofs.

It's 8pm. I just got done watching a terribe episode of Impact Wrestling and I'm ready to climb into bed and watch a movie before I drift off to sweet release. When... *knock knock* I get up, put some pants on, and slowly make my way to the front door. I open it, making sure to look as absolutely unhappy as I can manage, to find a couple of 30-something men wearing "repent before it's too late" matching shirts.

This should be fun.

I laughed. Seeing their shirts I thought it was a joke. I legitimately did. They told me they were with a local church, and were going door-to-door begging people to repent of their sins and turn to God before the oncoming 2012 Apocalypse. Being from a deep religious background, I was confused. There are groups of Christians who, as a part of their dogma, actually believe in the 2012 bullshit? So I asked...and apparently there is. They told me that the Bible says the Christians will be raptured while the rest of the world burns, in just a few weeks. And that if I wanted to be among the chosen I needed to repent of my wicked ways and accept the Lord's prayer into my h-e-a-r-t. I told them I used to be a devout Christian, but I repented of those ways earlier this year. I then told them the Mayan calendar ended last year, and they should go Google search leap years. I closed the door with them still talking, took off my pants, and crawled back into bed, where I am now typing this message.

It just amazes me that people can be convinced of absolute filth like this. I get world religions. I get that most people are birthed into religion. I even understand that the pressure of a billion Christians leads a lot of people to convert at some point in their lives. And I can even understand how hard times can lead you to what you believe is a spirituality experience with God. But these fringe groups...?

What do you think it is about society that we are ready and willing to believe the most ridiculous things, without any hint of proof? Is it because Christianity - which calls for faith without certainty - is so ingrained in our culture that we just don't question idiocies when they arise?

TL;DR - A couple of crazies came to my door to "save my soul" before the 2012 doomsday. What makes people believe stupid shit?

 

[klunderbunker]

1. I attend a church that believes that a rapture will be taking place.

2. I have often been called crazy for this.

3. I would have been totally cool with you punching these two in the face for knocking on your door at 8pm.

4. My pastor would likely hold their arms back while you swung.

5. We're not all like this I assure you.

6. These people clearly have no idea how to read their Bibles.

 

[Harthan]

People want to believe in something. People want to think they're special. People are easily scared. Moreover, people want to believe there's a plan to the universe.

In the end, it would be decidedly comforting to know that the universe was hurtling toward a fiery end, and that we'd predicted its date. It's much better than knowing that we're all just creeping toward the inevitable heat death of the universe as a result of ever growing entropy. That's not a plan; that's chaos.

Doomsday theorists are convincing themselves that everything is going according to somebody's plan. They're a lot happier than you or I are, I imagine.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

People want to believe in something. People want to think they're special. People are easily scared. Moreover, people want to believe there's a plan to the universe.

In the end, it would be decidedly comforting to know that the universe was hurtling toward a fiery end, and that we'd predicted its date. It's much better than knowing that we're all just creeping toward the inevitable heat death of the universe as a result of ever growing entropy. That's not a plan; that's chaos.

Doomsday theorists are convincing themselves that everything is going according to somebody's plan. They're a lot happier than you or I are, I imagine.

That's what I've come to realize in the last year, to two years. I think that's why I loved the Joker's character in the Dark Knight so much. That whole philosophy is kind of what the plot of the film is based around. I'm not sure why, but I find comfort in chaos. Knowing that I have an expiration date, but never knowing when it will be is what inspires me to not waste my life (I still totally waste the majority of my life though). Things like the afterlife, heaven and hell...that's the kind of stuff that stresses me out.

1. I attend a church that believes that a rapture will be taking place.

2. I have often been called crazy for this.

3. I would have been totally cool with you punching these two in the face for knocking on your door at 8pm.

4. My pastor would likely hold their arms back while you swung.

5. We're not all like this I assure you.

6. These people clearly have no idea how to read their Bibles.

I was raised in the Assemblies of God denomination of Christianity, and there I sat for the majority of my life thus far. They're kind of the ring leaders in rapture theory and things like speaking in tongues. Ironically, the Catholic church, which is pretty much the end-all be-all in ridiculous things that are believed, does not subscribe to the rapture theory. The fact that it's only been talked about for maybe 200 years, and really only 100 in well-respected Christian circles, is what makes me more skeptical than anything else. Even when I was growing up surrounded by it, and totally bought into every else, that just made no sense to me. Growing up in the Left Behind era didn't help either.

 

[klunderbunker]

That's what I've come to realize in the last year, to two years. I think that's why I loved the Joker's character in the Dark Knight so much. That whole philosophy is kind of what the plot of the film is based around. I'm not sure why, but I find comfort in chaos. Knowing that I have an expiration date, but never knowing when it will be is what inspires me to not waste my life (I still totally waste the majority of my life though). Things like the afterlife, heaven and hell...that's the kind of stuff that stresses me out.



I was raised in the Assemblies of God denomination of Christianity, and there I sat for the majority of my life thus far. They're kind of the ring leaders in rapture theory and things like speaking in tongues. Ironically, the Catholic church, which is pretty much the end-all be-all in ridiculous things that are believed, does not subscribe to the rapture theory. The fact that it's only been talked about for maybe 200 years, and really only 100 in well-respected Christian circles, is what makes me more skeptical than anything else. Even when I was growing up surrounded by it, and totally bought into every else, that just made no sense to me. Growing up in the Left Behind era didn't help either.

AoG as well, and I live in Kentucky. Think about how that goes for a minute.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

AoG as well, and I live in Kentucky. Think about how that goes for a minute.

Oh dear. If the Bible belt had it's own Bible belt, and that belt had a buckle, it would be Kentucky. Or so I've heard.

 

[klunderbunker]

Oh dear. If the Bible belt had it's own Bible belt, and that belt had a buckle, it would be Kentucky. Or so I've heard.

My associate pastor/Sunday School teacher is from Dallas. And he used to be a cop. My pastor used to hold national office in the church.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

My associate pastor/Sunday School teacher is from Dallas. And he used to be a cop. My pastor used to hold national office in the church.

Can it get any more stereotypical than that? Does your secretary wear flower-laced sun dresses with a big white hat? Do black people have their own drinking fountain and rest areas?

 

[klunderbunker]

Actually our secretary is a somewhat large woman who used to sing despite admitting that she couldn't sing a note. She also makes jokes about the rest of the staff there and how annoying they can be. It's really not as bad as it sounds and everyone there is very nice. Even the Texas guy always makes sure to shake my hand in my office (I run the electronic stuff).

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I get up, put some pants on

This is the thing I cared about, that Killam wasn't wearing pants.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Actually our secretary is a somewhat large woman who used to sing despite admitting that she couldn't sing a note. She also makes jokes about the rest of the staff there and how annoying they can be. It's really not as bad as it sounds and everyone there is very nice. Even the Texas guy always makes sure to shake my hand in my office (I run the electronic stuff).

For about three years I used to alternate between running sound/video/lights and playing guitar. Our church would alternate between the youth band and the church band, which is one idea I thought they did really well. Gave everyone at least two weeks out of the month where they enjoyed the music. Most people appreciated the youth band more, because we didn't do the same songs every week and were a lot more progressive.

Left that church after high school though. I just couldn't handle the weekly speaking in tongues outbursts and how rich everybody else was. My friends that I lived with for a couple of years started a house church, and I was very involved with that until we moved out to Oregon. I liked that, because it didn't matter where I was with belief, or what I thought. Anybody could talk and share their opinions and we'd all work through things. There was pastor, but my friend who owned the house acted more like a moderator for discussion. And we had a community dinner before hand every Sunday, and anybody could come and eat food. Then we'd do music that was a bit more "out there". It included stuff meant to provoke thought and discussion, rather than just straight up obvious "worship music". That was a good time in my life.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

You mean you haven't read the book I told you to read, yet?

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

You mean you haven't read the book I told you to read, yet?

Damn it Steamboat, it's been ONE DAY!

 

[klunderbunker]

For about three years I used to alternate between running sound/video/lights and playing guitar. Our church would alternate between the youth band and the church band, which is one idea I thought they did really well. Gave everyone at least two weeks out of the month where they enjoyed the music. Most people appreciated the youth band more, because we didn't do the same songs every week and were a lot more progressive.

Left that church after high school though. I just couldn't handle the weekly speaking in tongues outbursts and how rich everybody else was. My friends that I lived with for a couple of years started a house church, and I was very involved with that until we moved out to Oregon. I liked that, because it didn't matter where I was with belief, or what I thought. Anybody could talk and share their opinions and we'd all work through things. There was pastor, but my friend who owned the house acted more like a moderator for discussion. And we had a community dinner before hand every Sunday, and anybody could come and eat food. Then we'd do music that was a bit more "out there". It included stuff meant to provoke thought and discussion, rather than just straight up obvious "worship music". That was a good time in my life.

Yeah you'd like my church. The people at my church go to every range of wealth from people with no jobs to people making probably close to six figures a year. It makes no difference at all as far as I can tell.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Damn it Steamboat, it's been ONE DAY!

Ricky. Call me Ricky. Imagine that I showed up at your place at 8pm with that written on my shirt.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Yeah you'd like my church. The people at my church go to every range of wealth from people with no jobs to people making probably close to six figures a year. It makes no difference at all as far as I can tell.

Maybe. I don't doubt you, so take no offense when I say this, but most of the time when people tell me I'll like their church for one reason or another, the result ends up being largely the same. I don't.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

On a totally unrelated note, I'm thinking about changing my name back to Mike Killam. I think, in doing more things with the main page, this would be a good idea. But then my thread that I never use will be oddly titled for a name I no longer have...

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

It never ceases to amaze me how people come to believe in ridiculous things, that are supported by literally zero historical or scientific proofs.

I have this argument with Harthan on the frequent. Don't you understand that you are simply placing authority in a different medium? What makes historical or scientific things more "proof"? Ultimately, you are choosing, at some level, to grant a particular way of thinking or measuring authoritative. Is that not also what religious folk do, as well?

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Harth hit on a really good point though, people want something to believe in.

I was raised very Christian, I was home schooled for three years in a Christian program. When I went back to public school I was the asshole kid who refused to acknowledge that evolution was a thing. When I was a sophomore in high school I started to drift from that. I'd call myself an atheist now, but honestly I don't care enough. I believe that when we die we get put in a hole in the ground and that is it. It is pretty fucking depressing when you think about it, but I don't believe there is life after death.

The guys on the site that I am closer to know that at the beginning of last month my girlfriend lost her year and a half battle with cancer. I had never experienced a loss that close before. The well wishes I received were nice, but nothing could take away that pain I was going through in the days leading up and the days after her passing. I remember wanting some sort of comfort, and in that time I realized why so many people turn to things like religion in times of hardship. It was a quick fix. I don't blame anyone who does. I can admit that if I believed in something like that it would have made the ordeal easier, the thought that I might have been able to see her again one day, thinking that she wasn't just a body in a box right now, none of the fucked up shit I have thought about in the last month. I may not believe it, but it is a lot less depressing than what I do believe.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Here...I'll say it:


Religion's greatest selling point for the future: God (whatever God means) has to be more than a projection, abstraction, or illusion because of the experience of love. Once we love or experience love, the thought of it ever ending seems unfathomable.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

I have this argument with Harthan on the frequent. Don't you understand that you are simply placing authority in a different medium? What makes historical or scientific things more "proof"? Ultimately, you are choosing, at some level, to grant a particular way of thinking or measuring authoritative. Is that not also what religious folk do, as well?

I tend to fall on the side of empirical data and things that can be tested with the scientific method. Proof IS a scientific necessity. So...that's what makes it more...proof? I'm just going to pretend that sentence never happened.

I have heard people say that the very presence of love is proof that God exists. It's a nice, fluffy sentiment that in my opinion, means nothing. Love is a word, just like any other word. It stands for something. It has meaning because we connect it to something important. Love no more proves God than the word "tree" or "pudding". Which is appropriate actually, because trees are used to symbolize life, and pudding is fucking awesome.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

I have heard people say that the very presence of love is proof that God exists. It's a nice, fluffy sentiment that in my opinion, means nothing. Love is a word, just like any other word. It stands for something. It has meaning because we connect it to something important. Love no more proves God than the word "tree" or "pudding". Which is appropriate actually, because trees are used to symbolize life, and pudding is fucking awesome.

Science is a word, so why is it authoritative?

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Whatever Harthan offers as a reply will be hilarious.

 

[Harthan]

I have this argument with Harthan on the frequent. Don't you understand that you are simply placing authority in a different medium? What makes historical or scientific things more "proof"? Ultimately, you are choosing, at some level, to grant a particular way of thinking or measuring authoritative. Is that not also what religious folk do, as well?

So you'd argue there's no objective reality. If that's how you want to look at it, fine. I believe in objectivity. The basic tenets of objectivity lead to a scientific method as the source of truth in the universe. Or as close to truth as we can get, anyway.

I only replied to this because I'm bored. I don't really want to do this argument for the billionth time, really. Speak your piece and then let's all move on.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

So you'd argue there's no objective reality. If that's how you want to look at it, fine. I believe in objectivity. The basic tenets of objectivity lead to a scientific method as the source of truth in the universe. Or as close to truth as we can get, anyway.

I only replied to this because I'm bored. I don't really want to do this argument for the billionth time, really. Speak your piece and then let's all move on.

I would argue that there is no way to prove objective reality...or that it's more true than subjective reality. And I think you agreed...which is the most refreshing thing I've ever seen you post. If that's not what you're getting at, well, that's ok too.

In the end, something works for you...and something works for me. And it generally goes through a process of tweak and change for the both of us.