It needs to step back in time, not forward in time, to learn from the past.

Lockard23

Occasional Pre-Show
That was a quote from HHH in his interview with Bruno Sammartino. So my question is this:

Should the wwe go back to the fundamentals and try to put the genie back into the bottle. A sort of destroy and rebuild for the future and next 50 years of the organization. If so, what can the business do for its future?
 
No. People may not like the product now, but there is no way they would like it if it was brought back. There were no storylines. The matches were way to long. This is the generation of multitasking and thing has to hurry up and get over with. Out attention span is no longer that great. We couldn’t handle 40 min to 1 hour matches all the time. I’m pretty sure if was just being respectful.
 
I don't think HHH meant going back to 40min matches and no story lines... I think that he wants the talent to learn from guys like Samartino and co. The beauty of the golden era is the fact that whilst there may have been an absence of story lines outside the ring, the real stories were told in the ring and thats something everyone can learn from Samartino. In-ring story telling.
 
theres hardly any storylines now. not every match has to be that long, but dude? no more squashes. hell even the womens matches were great back then. maybe build real fueds where they ended with 2 out of 3 falls or submission matches or even texas bullrope matches. make fueds mean something. perhaps cena gets beat by sin cara(never happen i know) then for some reason they team and cena accidently levels cara. things boil over and next thing ya know on a ppv cara is putting his mask on the line or so forth. i think he meant back when it was rasslin not wrestling entertainment
 
I think in a lot of ways they've already done just that. Once the Attitude Era ended, they sort of reset people's expectations with how wild wrestling can get; a cleansing of the palate. We went from having 30 foot jumps off ladders being the status quo and "****" and "asshole" being nightly chants to being amazingly shocked any time anyone says "I'm gonna kick your ass" or goes through a table. Just now we're starting to see SLIGHTLY edgier things, and they're enjoyable again. If they kept on the path the Attitude Era laid out every match would end with someone's internal organs being ripped out of their bodies and flayed in the middle of the ring or something.

So in essence, they've already done what you're suggesting.
 
If you look at some of the moves that Triple H has made since becoming an executive, I think his ultimate vision for WWE is something more along the lines of a throwback that's still completely modern.

For instance, Triple H is going out there and recruiting wrestlers to NXT who, for the most part, already have a good deal of experience. He's going for guys who, first and foremost & for the most part, are talented professional wrestlers. He's not looking at how they look as a #1 priority in the same way Johnny Ace did. I'm not saying that having a marketable look isn't important or anything, because we all know that it is, but that's not the end all & be all as far as Trips is concerned. At least, that's the idea I'm getting. That's something that we didn't see nearly as much with Big Johnny.

Triple H has also hired a lot of guys to work with him, an inner circle like Vince has had, but most of Trips' guys are men that have a strong sports background. Based on what I've read, Trips doesn't seem to be nearly as infatuated with the "sports entertainment" aspect as Vince is. I've read in several articles that backstage talk is that Trips WWE, when he ultimately takes power, will basically be a wrestling company with a much heavier focus on wrestling matches and promo segments.

What I mean by a modern throwback is that, again this is just an assumption based on what I've read, is that Triple H very much wants to cut back on the "entertainment" aspect and truly put the wrestling aspect at the forefront. I don't think that Triple H is going to worry nearly as much about WWE being accepted by the "mainstream" as Vince McMahon is. It's great that WWE gets its name out there amongst the more mainstream aspects of the entertainment industry. However, I think Trips realizes that he can keep WWE out there in the mainstream without heavily catering to it in the same, nearly obsessive way that Vince does. Sure, ESPN regularly does features on WWE, celebrities pop up in audiences sometimes and all this and that, but I think Triple H ultimately wants to put out a product that's generally more bare bones, old school wrestling while keeping a modern feel about it. We all know WWE is a wrestling company, Vince can use all the buzz words he likes, but everyone knows that WWE is a wrestling company. I think Triple H is someone that's more than proud to be labeled as a "wrestler" that runs a "wrestling company". So buzz words like "sports entertainment" might just disappear altogether under his regime.

I think it's safe to say that Triple H won't run WWE in the same way as Vince. Just as Vince wasn't willing to stay in the shadow of his father when he took over the company, I expect Triple H will establish himself as a different promoter than Vince. Sure, he'll fuck up sometimes. Sure, he'll make wrong decisions that may have sounded better on paper, but that's life. The changes don't even have to be drastic as minor changes in how Trips approaches certain things can set him apart. For example, Triple H seems to be someone that's not nearly as controlling and impatient as Vince has been known to be. Vince has been known to love an idea one day and then completely despise it the next. Vince is a control freak that feels he has to micro manage every single aspect of what goes on. In the process, he makes everyone around him miserable. As we've all read sometimes, Vince is someone that micro manages to such a degree that it's almost impossible for writers especially to di their jobs, especially with him changing his mind every 5 minutes. Maybe some see that as a good thing but, again base on what I've read, Triple H is someone that generally has faith in the people he puts into certain positions.
 
Wait a damn minute!! You totally took Triple H's comments out of context and missed the point...

he's talking about talent having the fundamentals instead of being these "Indy Spot Fest" with no context to the match
 
Wrestling evolved way to much to come back to some basic antics. You just cant take todays wrestling and turn it to other eras fom the same reason we cannot came back to Stone Age. :)

Other thing is, in the eyes of WWE there is nothing wrong with todays WWE. They made that product, they earn hips of load of money on it and they will continue to earn on that. You dont change something that earns you money unless

1) it stops earning you money
2) it could make you more money

And destroying current product to make something that in the past work but probably cant work now is just bad bussiness. :)

Other thing is, it is taken out of context. He really just meant to hip some praise on Bruno and to tell that you can learn from the past to be better tommorow. :)
 
Era's come & go. Who knows what will get hot in the future. The WWE changes with the audience very well. Regardless if I dislike the product as of today (mainly because it's not for me) The "entertainment" part is based on the PG tag & that's their M.O. I have faith in the WWE to come full circle again. It's just the wave of the business going through generation after generation.
 
If you look at some of the moves that Triple H has made since becoming an executive, I think his ultimate vision for WWE is something more along the lines of a throwback that's still completely modern.

Now that's summing it up in one sentence.:) Already, we've seen evidence of it. WWE realizes that in honoring it's rich past, it reaches a new/old segment of audience: that is, older fans who have abandoned the WWE of the present, yet are happy to tune in to see their old favorites. Obviously, the whole 2-year program with the Rock is designed to take advantage of this, and last year's Wrestlemania buy-rate confirms the wisdom of the move. In addition, the schtick Heath Slater ran last year, getting beat up by legends like Vader and Psycho Sid gave us a brief glimpse of the past in a manner we surely never expected to see. Plainly, the company wanted to put legends in action, rather than just taking a bow from the audience, so they developed a way of providing them with non-taxing matches. Still, WWE didn't want a bunch of 50-year-olds coming in and destroying their young talent, so they put a smartass, mid-card heel in there (Slater) and lit the fireworks. It was brilliant, it was fun.

This is exactly the way to combine the old and the new, appealing to wider audiences and (hopefully) bringing former fans back into the fold. If they don't come back permanently, at least WWE gets some terrific PPV buy-rates for their trouble.

Still, an even more skillful way of improving the present by honoring the past is bringing back old guys and convincing us they're still part of the present. There's no greater example than the Rock: look at the number of people on this forum that have all sorts of grand plans for things Rock can do now that he's "back." They think he's truly returned to WWE for good. Of course, he hasn't and if you take a year as 365 individual days and look at the very few days he actually shows up, you'll realize it's all being done with mirrors; skillfully, but sparingly.

Three years ago, TNA decided to grab some old-timers and make them the stars of the show, and we saw what resulted. For all the criticism WWE takes on this forum for their planning and direction, they plainly know how to take elements from the past and incorporate them into the present. It's a sound strategy.


I think it's safe to say that Triple H won't run WWE in the same way as Vince.

Safe to say, yes. I'd still love to know how much actual power and authority Triple H has today. Is he simply following Vince McMahon's orders or can he initiate stuff on his own? Yes, he has tons of things to do, but how much of it is his call?

A good example of this might be what was discussed above; the combining past and present. Although having the old-timers come in for guest spots might figure to be a concept developed by the older generation leader (McMahon), I wonder if Triple H isn't the energy behind the movement. Younger leaders, fresher ideas. Use the past, don't look to re-create it.

Another measure of the "new" concept might concern the divas. As it is, the gals are leaving and not being replaced. I wonder if this isn't a long-term design by Triple H. He didn't want to fire gals like Gail Kim, Beth Phoenix, Kelly Kelly and Eve. Just let 'em get disgusted and leave through attrition, cleaning out the division and leaving it open for a rebuild according to Paul Levesque .....or let the division die. It remains to be seen what direction will be taken, but I think it's by design, not happenstance.

Of course, I don't know the minds of Levesque or McMahon, but if this concept is valid, it sounds more like the innovation of a younger mind: Triple H.

Of course, real change will be effected only when Mr. and Mrs. Levesque are truly in charge.

Wonder when that will be? When hell freezes over?
 
To me Triple H isn't talking about going back in time to hour long matches with no story and trying to sell the whole thing as being real fights, etc etc. What I think he is talking about is having people improve their ability to tell story in the ring with their wrestling manuvers. For example...

Aj Styles, the guy is an absolute phenom in the ring and his talent and athletic ability is second to none. He has had absolutly amazing matches with the likes of Christopher Daniels, Samoa Joe, Kurt Angle, etc etc. Yes I don't think there is a single match he has had that you can compare to HBK vs Flair at Wrestlemania. Was Flair vs HBK an amazing technical or athletic phenomenon of a match? Hell no it had a 70+ year old wrestler and a guy who hit his prime in the early 90s and came back from back surgery neither of which have AJ's athletic ability. So what made it better then pretty much every match AJ has ever had in his career? It sold an amazing story of Flair's retirement from how much the company meant to him, to how much Flair meant to HBK, to how difficult it was for HBK and yet how much it seemed Flair wanted it to end.

There is a place for great athletic matches but those matches can and always will take a back set to a match that sells a story and gets the audience emotionally invested in it. That is what Triple H wants modern day wrestlers to learn from.
 
I say WWE could start using some of their Video Library, to help wrestlers develop mic skills, persona, and wrestling ability.
 
People's styles are only as good as the mission they are trying to accomplish. It's one thing to establish character. It's another to create a ring-style. While I think the current roster has some really good movesets, they can as other people noted, go back to the video vaults and study on how to invest the audience into their match. It would help the company tremendously.
 
I would agree as at times the storyline is a little stale. I know retreds get old but sometimes they work. Moving Randy Orton to heel has to be epic. So I say do this....
Instead of having CM Punk challenge the Undertaker at Wrestlemania have Orton do it. Saying unlike HBK and HHH he will not let his 2nd opportunity be wasted and he will end the streak. Then after Taker pulls off the win have Orton kick Taker in the nuts. Then give him an RKO and punt him. The next night on Raw have him come out and say that his "do the right thing" ways are over and the "Legend Killer is back!!) Then have him challenge for the World Heavyweight Title at Extreme Rules (against Ziggler after he cashes in at Mania). Have Ziggler about ready to retain and then Flair runs out and distracts the ref. Orton gets the upperhand and wins the strap. Then Dibiase, J. Hennig (McGillicuty), and Miz join Orton in the ring to announce the re-formation of the Horseman. Then you can have this faction dominate Smackdown in 2013. Orton could feud with Sheamus, Ryback, etc... over the Title.

And for CM Punk's potential face turn instead of having HHH challenge Lesnar at Mania have CM Punk fight him with the winner challenging for the WWE Title at Extreme Rules. The match goes back and forth until Heyman interferes for Lesnar setting up Lesnar vs. Cena at Extreme Rules.

Just some ideas that could keep the storyline fresh. I would also have Daniel Bryan feud with Barrett over the I-C title to rekindle their old nexus feud. These 2 could work a pretty solid program for a few months.
 

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