Is WWE trying to re-create HBK with Dolph?

[Rjw2688]

To begin I like Dolph. I like his ring work, I like his look, I don't think he is bad on the Mic. There has been comparisons of him with HBK, Mr. Perfect, Billy Gunn ect..

Lately I feel as though WWE is running with those comparisons and trying to re-create HBK through Dolph. Yes Dolph has been the show off for a while, and he "steals the show" while HBK was the show stopper.

I know Dolph used the super kick a while ago but it seems to me he is using it more often now then before.

Dolph with AJ reminds me a lot of HBK's playboy cocky gimmick.

Big E Langston another Big Daddy Cool Diesel. Why else throw a body guard on Dolph?

Coming into the Royal Rumble I thought to myself, wouldn't surprise me to have Dolph enter as number 1 and steal the show. Low and behold he "won" the right to choose either number 1 or 2, pretty sure he will be number 1. HBK's first Royal Rumble victory was from the 1 spot.

My questions are-

1. Do you think the WWE is trying to re-create HBK with Dolph or am I just over thinking the similarities.

2. Whats his chances come sunday at the royal rumble? Does him holding the Money in the Bank hurt his chances?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

There are some similarities between the two. In various ways, past stars are always an influence on new or current stars. HBK is someone that was known for being a great seller, so is Dolph Ziggler. HBK was known for being able to work with damn near anybody in the ring, so is Ziggler. HBK & Ziggler are both very athletic, can do mat based wrestling & can do the high flying stuff. They're roughly about the same size and weight, etc.

The bodyguard thing is also nothing new. We've seen wrestlers have a bodyguard or factions that have a wrestler that's the muscle or bruiser for decades.

I don't think they're trying to "rip off" HBK or anything, if that's what the OP is getting at. You simply can't do carbon copies of past stars. Some companies have kinda sorta flirted with doing that at various points with very limited success. They have somewhat similar heel personality types as being highly arrogant, though Ziggler has much less of the adolescent/frat boy aura that HBK had, especially during his days with DX.

As for what Ziggler's chances are, I suspect his chances are strong. I don't think he'll win the Rumble, wouldn't bother me at all if he did though. I see Ziggler as being one of the final 2 or 3 left in the ring. With Vickie essentially screwing him by telling him he gets to pick between #1 & #2, I think WWE is setting Ziggler up to have a memorable performance in the Rumble. Otherwise, they could've just stuck with the inferred idea of Ziggler getting to pick any number if he won the BTCC matches on Raw this Monday and had him draw #30. If Ziggler did win while still having MITB, it would add a great sense of unpredictability regarding Ziggler, what title he'd choose to go after and what it ultimately meant for the MITB briefcase.

 

[OhYeah!]

Shawn's first run as heel was basically only about him being cocky and its difficult for a heel to be taken seriously that way, in my opinion. I always liked the second run better, with him being more "intense", if you wanna use that word.

 

[ultramattman]

Here's a fun fact about Dolph - his favorite match ever is Shawn Michaels v. Tatanka, an IC title match that opened Wrestlemania IX. Shawn was a year into his 'Sexy Boy' HBK character, and beginning to open eyes as to what a great performer he was.

So it's no coincidence that there's a lot of Sexy Boy in the Show-Off. That's who Dolph's been emulating all along. And yes, I'd say the similarities with HBK are intentional. (although I don't think Michaels had Sensational Sherri and Diesel at the same time) After all, every wrestling storyline gets recycled eventually, and recycled again and recycled again.

Of course, it was ALL the various turns of Shawn's career (DX, return, late-career resurgence) that made HBK a legend. But put in WM9, watch that opening match, and tell me it doesn't look and feel a whole lot like Dolph does today.

As for the Rumble, I don't expect Dolph to win, but I DO expect him to hang around till near the end, turn in a memorable performance, and be one of the Rumble's signature storylines. Even before Vickie's swerve, I expected Dolph to choose #1 so that he could 'steal the show' at the Rumble. But it makes no sense for him to win when he already has the briefcase.

 

[boozinjedi]

IF they're gonna re-create HBK with Dolph..How do you craft a face turn?
Doplh might go far in the rumble if he has Big E in there with him,at least in the early parts...until another HUGE guy comes in..I could see Dolph literally behind Big E and and he'd be tossing smaller guys out left and right as they come in,doing that whole looking at wrist pretending it's a watch..UNTIL some other HUGE wrestler arrives,like Khali,Big Show or even more fitting..Mark Henry.

Taking the belt off of Big Show could be Ziggler's best chance yet...he could even cash it in at Rumble

It's gonna be interesting to see this

 

[The Butcher]

There parallels are there, but as Jack-Hammer said, WWE "can't do carbon copies of past stars." A lot of modern Superstars have elements that seem to harken back to some Superstar of yore, but I wouldn't say that any of them are an attempt to "re-create." That said, if you're going to borrow, borrow from the best.

I don't give Dolph a big chance to win on Sunday, but I'm expecting him to have a great showing. Record breaking, perhaps. He's going to be one of the first men in, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that he's one of the last men out. Also, more so than in the recent past, I expect his impressive showing in the Rumble to really be harped on and crowed about in the coming weeks. There's a lot to look forward to at the Royal Rumble, but Dolph just might live up to his slogan and "steal the show."

 

[uvx]

Dolph has a HBK mentality and persona. He loves himself, very arrogant and calls himself the show-stealer/show off. The only comparisons I see with Mr Perfect and Billy Gunn are only their look.

 

[lowandmighty]

I still don't see the big deal about Dolph Ziggler. He's not growing on me at all. I usually change the channel if theres too much focus around him.
He's nothing like HBK. Honestly Dolph being the new HBK is one of the most bizarre ideas I've ever heard.

However a couple of people have actually agreed with this idea! when everyone else thinks something and you're the only one who doesn't it's supposed to mean you're insane. So I guess I'm the insane one. Either that or I'm normal and everyone else is insane but it doesn't matter because I'm outnumbered.
Just can't stand Ziggler to be honest. If he gets pushed any further it might be me no longer a fan of wwe.

 

[MCMG]

It's the super kick. Lets be honest. I doubt there is a single wrestling fan who didn't think HBK when they saw Ziggler using it. I see where you are coming from with Big E and AJ but loads of wrestlers in the past have had bodyguard or a girlfriend: it just happens. With regards to the Rumble, it is only strange if Ziggler wins and I can't see that happening.

John Morrison was compared to Michaels and many wrestlers of the present get compared to those in from the past. After a while, it is difficult to make someone new and completely different from what we have seen before.

 

[WrestlingSabermetrics]

There are elements of HBK in Ziggler, but I don't know. This kind of reminds me of when baseball players are compared to past stars because of height, build, swing or speed.

Dolph is unique and has a lot of positives. He's one of the best overall talents in the company, but we'll only know how much his career is like HBK's in about another 10 years, at the very least. I will say, however, that in 10 years time I think Ziggler will be known for having had the better mic skills during his career. I also think Dolph could make a great face. Don't think he'll have a good Sunday at the RR though.

 

[HellBoundPower]

I can see a slight similarity because of height, weight, build, and parts of his persona. But I don't see too much in common with them. While Dolph might emulate HBK in a way, I don't think they're too much alike. I think Dolph is his own man, and doesn't need to be compared to someone else to get it done in the ring. The parallels are there, but it's not much. I think that Dolph will have a pretty good career, but I don't think it will rival that of Shawn Michaels.

 

[scottyshowman82]

I'm kind of torn with Ziggler. Are there obvious similarities between him and Shawn Michaels absolutely. He's a cross between HBK and Mr. Perfect if I ever saw one. I do think though it would be totally unfair to label him simply as a copycat because he is so talented with the way he pulls off moves, and is a great technical talent. I do like people who try to be original though that is very hard is all forms of art these days, Ziggler did take the risk and dye his hair black to do something original but everyone me included just wanted him to go back to the flashy blonde character he was.

At the end of the day I do think Ziggler wants to be remembered as an individual and not a HBK wannabe, though some would look at HBK and as Ric Flair wannabe. I think at the end of the day when someone is trying to grow and make their mark they do have to borrow things from people they respect and admire but ultimately become their own person. I think Ziggler is doing that moving from "perfection" to "Show off" and though he should channel his inner HBK to attain greatness he should also channel what makes him unique as a performer to attain ultimate superstar recognition.

 

[wrestlingfan]

WWE were trying to recreate HBK with Morrison. The look, the ring attire, the high-flying skills. Hell they even allowed him to superkick HBK.

Other than that, I don't have a problem with new stars basing themselves on stars from the past. With how long wrestling's been out its completely impossible to have your gimmick be 100% original. Ultimately they should try to be their own man (A perfect performer is 50% of the past & 50% of themselves) but there's elements of the past they could use in their own gimick. Guys like HBK & HHH learned alot from Flair.

 

[flawd101]

I don't think they are trying to. Ziggler just has a similar attitude. the way he sells moves. i just think he has "it". all the greats do. he just needs that spark, that moment that pushes him over the top. you can always compare people, but i never got the sense that he was ripping off HBK.

 

[Trance Metaphor]

I wouldn't say they're recreating HBK with Dolph Ziggler. They're both their own. Completely different. The only thing they share in common is their selling. Dolph has the look of Mr. Perfect with moves of Billy Gunn. If the WWE was recreating HBK with Dolph Ziggler though, it's not a good impression. HBK's matches usually last for quite a while and throw predictability out the window big-time. Just when you think he's gonna lose, he somehow pulls off a victory. There's so much endurance displayed in HBK. I don't see that in Ziggler. Yes, Ziggler has had a few victories here and there that have shown that unpredictable endurance, but not enough to assess as HBK-ish. Then there are the accomplishments. Shawn Michaels won two Royal Rumbles in a row. He won three WWE Championships with two of them being against a headstrong rival (Bret Hart). He has also had a slew of 'Match of the Year' wins. Dolph Ziggler has yet to win a Royal Rumble match or an eventful match of that calibre. For me, MitB is only secondary. Dolph's first World title win was hardly memorable since he was "awarded" the title. But, the biggest problem? He doesn't have that rival to win the World title off of. Dolph has yet to have a 'Match of the Year' under his belt. Shawn Michaels has also been in a lot of high profile matches against high profile wrestlers. He's beaten just about everyone minus Stone Cold Steve Austin. Dolph Ziggler has beaten John Cena and Randy Orton as his main two. It's just not enough. However, he has many years left in him, so he might get his own distinctions in the future. I'm just saying that right now the similarities are very minimal. Dolph is probably the best seller in the WWE right now and he's entertaining as hell, but HBK is on a different level. It's spectacular.

 

[DiamondStudd]

I wouldn't say they're recreating HBK with Dolph Ziggler. They're both their own. Completely different. The only thing they share in common is their selling. Dolph has the look of Mr. Perfect with moves of Billy Gunn. If the WWE was recreating HBK with Dolph Ziggler though, it's not a good impression. HBK's matches usually last for quite a while and throw predictability out the window big-time. Just when you think he's gonna lose, he somehow pulls off a victory. There's so much endurance displayed in HBK. I don't see that in Ziggler. Yes, Ziggler has had a few victories here and there that have shown that unpredictable endurance, but not enough to assess as HBK-ish. Then there are the accomplishments. Shawn Michaels won two Royal Rumbles in a row. He won three WWE Championships with two of them being against a headstrong rival (Bret Hart). He has also had a slew of 'Match of the Year' wins. Dolph Ziggler has yet to win a Royal Rumble match or an eventful match of that calibre. For me, MitB is only secondary. Dolph's first World title win was hardly memorable since he was "awarded" the title. But, the biggest problem? He doesn't have that rival to win the World title off of. Dolph has yet to have a 'Match of the Year' under his belt. Shawn Michaels has also been in a lot of high profile matches against high profile wrestlers. He's beaten just about everyone minus Stone Cold Steve Austin. Dolph Ziggler has beaten John Cena and Randy Orton as his main two. It's just not enough. However, he has many years left in him, so he might get his own distinctions in the future. I'm just saying that right now the similarities are very minimal. Dolph is probably the best seller in the WWE right now and he's entertaining as hell, but HBK is on a different level. It's spectacular.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Ziggler is at HBK's level right now. It took HBK five plus years to get to the top and reach those heights that you talked about. I do see some similarities, but to me the biggest difference is the "face" style charisma that HBK has. People loved that charisma and HBK was always better as a face, while to me its obvious that Ziggler is your prototypical heel.

 

[Moneyinc]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Ziggler is at HBK's level right now. It took HBK five plus years to get to the top and reach those heights that you talked about. I do see some similarities, but to me the biggest difference is the "face" style charisma that HBK has. People loved that charisma and HBK was always better as a face, while to me its obvious that Ziggler is your prototypical heel.

Yea I was about the say the same thing. How many years has Dolph been on Raw? Shawn was with the Rockers about 4 years and then he was HBK heel for about 3 or 4 more? These are just guesses but you have to consider the grind it takes to get to the top in the business. Where Dolph is at now I would say he is ahead of schedule when comparing him to HBK. At the same time though HBK was electrifying Wrestlemanias with the Rockers to open cards so maybe Dolph isn't exactly "ahead of schedule."

Someone said it above. The way Dolph sells is very similar to HBK. Perfect and HBK used to sell the same way, and I am almost certain Dolph studies their tapes. Dolph has been using that Super Kick a lot lately so that is definitely another thing he has in common with HBK. I can just tell Dolph is a student of the old school which makes me very hopeful he is going to turn into a monster of a personality/wrestler in the upcoming years. Also have noticed recently that he sounds a little like Owen Hart on the mic which is pretty cool consider Owen Hart was one of the best Heels/personalities ever. I was always too young to realize it at the time.

 

[cstatus94]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Ziggler is at HBK's level right now. It took HBK five plus years to get to the top and reach those heights that you talked about. I do see some similarities, but to me the biggest difference is the "face" style charisma that HBK has. People loved that charisma and HBK was always better as a face, while to me its obvious that Ziggler is your prototypical heel.

Your not going find any guys to even seemingly be approaching HBK level mainly because of John Cena. As long as people like Ziggler and Barret constantly loose to Cena there not going to get higher just Cena just gets pushed higher. The potential nest big things are not getting there push. Its going to be how Cena was in early in his Career. He fueded with Big names like Angle but not until he beat JBL was you saw what he could be.