Is WWE pro wrestling?

[shattered dreams]

Sounds like a stupid question on the surface but we have been in the "sports entertainment" era for a long time now. At first that just seemed like a catchphrase to avoid the stigma pro wrestling had at the time but it seems to keep building into more of a reality. At this point I should admit I am a TNA mark but point out I do not mean this in any way as a dig at WWE. What I am talking about is what prowrestling has historically been about. Now the industry has obviously evolved and seen many different forms but with wwe outlawing an ever increasing amount of the tricks of the trade while allowing in outsiders in prominent roles really makes you wonder. Now, why I feel this is not a dig is because I am acknowledging that it has really worked for them.

So is prowrestling dead? Or would some argue it is still alive in TNA because they put some focus on staples of the industry that wwe has chosen to distance themselves from? Personally I think if it is still alive in tna it is hanging on by a thread. The essence is still there but the package seems to be clearly geared towards the "entertainment at all costs" mantra and it is only a matter of time until they fall victim to the latest evolution of the industry. Maybe it is both inevitable and necessary in this day and age but I cannot help but think fans of prowrestling everywhere are wondering how they feel about the entertainment era and if they have a breaking point.

The current wwe has this phantom menace feel to it. Is this really star wars just because it bears the name? Or maybe more importantly even good? Sure it appealed to a larger audience by toning it down and made tons of money in the process but did anyone like it that much? And does it matter if they did not? (ok maybe this part is a dig but the comparison is interesting nonetheless)

 

[WWE Manster03]

No WWE is not pro wrestling. It is sports entertainment. Hasn't been pro wrestling since around 1995. TNA also is not pro wrestling, although alot of people on here wish to believe otherwise. The only American promotion that I can think of that is pro wrestling is ROH. When storylines about power struggles/money/sex/power/image/etc become the main focus of a product, then pro wrestling has died in that company. Honestly, I don't feel if either company was strictly pro wrestling they would stay in business long enough to strive. Americans want to be entertained. Who entertained you more, Al Snow or Hulk Hogan? People here flock to the superstar, not the technician....Bret Hart/Kurt Angle would be the exceptions.

 

[Davi323]

Pro wrestling itself hasn't been pro wrestling for well over half a century. Just because Vince McMahon decided to call it sports entertainment doesn't mean it wasn't sports entertainment LONG before. The first time a promoter booked a winner in a match, rather than have it be a legitimate contest, it became sports entertainment. Just because nobody acknowledged it as such doesn't make it any less true. So, no, the WWE is not really pro wrestling. Neither is TNA, nor ROH, neither were ECW, WCW, the NWA, WCCW, USWA, AWA, Mid Atlantic, WWWF, New Japan, Deep South, AAA, or any other wrestling organization you can name.

 

[mikeyboy]

no vmac himself sai wwe is in the sport entertainment buisness and tna is the wrasslin' buis.

 

[psykohurricane]

no vmac himself sai wwe is in the sport entertainment buisness and tna is the wrasslin' buis.

Yeah but the problem with that statement is that TNA is pretty much doing the same thing as WWE was doing 10 years ago, so if TNA is in the wrestling buisiness what does that make the WWE then. WWE is doing more traditional wrestling storylines, yes they still have the entertainment aspect especially on Raw, but the t.v. matches on are a lot longers then TNA'S. So in a way, if you are a traditionalist, WWE is more pro wrestling then TNA.

But having said that, i think that WWE is in the sport entertainment business only by name because vince never like calling it wrestling. TNA on the other end is in the Television business because all they care about is getting better ratings, they are producing a television show that kinda has wrestling in it.

So yes, the wwe isn't pro wrestling, but neither is TNA .

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Who entertained you more, Al Snow or Hulk Hogan?

Snow, without question. The Head gimmick alone was more entertaining to me than anything i've ever seen Hogan do, except Hogan V Rock at WM18, but that was more down to the Rock than anything else.

As soon as they started adding non-wrestlers into the equation, pro-wrestling was replaced with sports entertainment, so even WM 1 was a celebration of sports entertainment rather than one of pro-wrestling.

I find it humorous though that Vince considers his product to be sports entertainment and TNA's to be 'pro-wrasslin'.

His promotion features more wrestling on it than anything else, plus his promotion monopolises the entire wrestling industry, yet Vince McMahon doesn't consider World Wrestling Entertainment to be focused on wrestling.

Plus he said that TNA use the blood and guts method, which apparently isn't popular anymore according to Vince. Hello? Isn't that how you managed to beat WCW in the first place? Didn't you generate a large amount of money from re-hashing all the old ECW matches, to the point where you restarted the brand? And as soon as you stopped using 'the blood and guts method', wasn't it around then that people stopped caring?

Hardcore wrestling is still popular Vince, we just haven't jumped to TNA because it's suddenly filled with all of the backstabbing, politicking bastards that you made into stars in the first place, plus all the two bit jack offs you couldn't be bothered with. If the booking weren't quite so stupid, and the wrestlers spent more time building storylines than spouting about beating you, then TNA would probably take more of you r audience than it has been.

Vince should just change the name to World Entertainment and be done with it.

 

[shattered dreams]

WWE is doing more traditional wrestling storylines, yes they still have the entertainment aspect especially on Raw, but the t.v. matches on are a lot longers then TNA'S. So in a way, if you are a traditionalist, WWE is more pro wrestling then TNA.

I do not think there is anything traditional about Napoleon Dynamite "wrestling" but you do allude to raw losing its way. What I am most interested in commenting on is your take on the matches. To begin with the way you phrase it I am not sure how accurate that statement is but I do know exactly what you are talking about. WWE does tend to have long matches.

However, I think this is misleading. Just calculating time only tells you so much about a match and I am surprised people do not mention this more. WWE also has slow matches, especially compared to TNA. I think something like total moves would give a more accurate picture of how much wrestling went on. There certainly is a place for the dramatic pause in a match, but WWE takes this too far because they do it in so many matches that there is simply nothing dramatic about.

One of the most annoying things that drove me away from WWE is that they put on a long match, build it up, then ... NOTHING. It is the anticipation problem. If you build something up that much in people's minds the reality actually often disappoints. It is even worse when the finish is lackluster, which is frequently the case in wwe, especially on tv. Add in the fact that everyday it seems another moveset is banned in wwe and I really have to question the idea that they have more "wrestling." To me, wwe hurts their in-ring product by putting on long matches to tell a story that is not worthy of it. It wastes the audiences time in that match and cheapens the effect of a quality long-match since it is the norm.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

WWE is as much pro wrestling as just about anything else you'll find in the United States. However, the term "pro wrestling" doesn't mean what it used to mean and it hasn't meant that for decades. Professional wrestling used to be a legitimate sport and a feat of athleticism in which a single match could potentially last for hours at a time.

The first international superstars of pro wrestling were Frank Gotch and Georg Hackenschmidt in the first decade of the 1900s. Hackenschmidt was the first universally recognized World Heavyweight Wrestling Champion in a day when it was a "legitimate sport". In those days, a title match was two out of three falls and the men wrestled until all three falls had taken place. There was no time limit and they'd grapple and stretch each other even if it took 3 hours. For all intents and purposes, a championship match in the early days of professional wrestling was a shoot that went on until one or both just simply couldn't go anymore.

Now, that was the way wrestling was and remained for a long while until it became a rigged event in which the match outcomes were planned ahead. Now, if you want to be technical about it, this is when "pro wrestling" as a sport really died out. Even still, however, legitimate skill as a grappler was required if you wanted to be taken seriously, if you wanted respect and, simply put, if you wanted to be able to take care of yourself in case your opponent decided he didn't wanna go along with the planned ending of the match. Eventually, however, even possessing legitimate wrestling ability began to go out of style. For one thing, the audience changed. Younger audiences didn't want to sit around and watch two guys roll around on a mat for two hours because they thought it was boring. Even if many fans did know it was all set up, they still wanted to be entertained rather than see an athletic display. Wrestling promoters began to recognize that. They began to recognize that the audience had changed into something that wanted to see something different than "traditional pro wrestling". Some wrestlers were able to capitalize on this, some were even innovaters really, and transformed themselves into larger than life characters. What ultimately matters to wrestling promoters and wrestlers themselves is money. Fans wanted a spectacle, they wanted to see entertaining wrestling matches but they wanted something else that the older style didn't provide. Eventually, gone were the days in which opponents kept each other in side headlocks, arm bars or hammerlocks for 15 minutes at a time. Wrestling promoters that didn't adapt to the changing of what their audiences wanted eventually found themselves out of business.

So, actual "pro wrestling" is something that's been all but dead in the United States and around the world for many a decade. In 2010, WWE Raw has focused more on their wrestling product, building storylines, building feuds, building new stars and selling ppvs than focusing on the "Entertainment" aspect of the WWE. For much of 2009, it was pretty much the exact opposite. In 2010, the Celebrity Guest Host angle hasn't dominated the atmosphere of Raw as it did in 2009. Last year, it seems that each episode of Raw was built around the presence of the Guest Host that often included ridiculous skits. This year, that's changed quite a bit. Most of the Guest Hosts don't appear all that often on camera and the skits have all but disappeared. However, I think too many people are giving the WWE a little too much grief over this. After all, didn't TNA sign Adam "Pacman" Jones to a contract while he was in between suspensions in the NFL? And, in fact, didn't they make Jones one half of their tag team champions for a while? There are definitely too many TNA fans that see the company through rose colored glasses. TNA isn't trying to keep pro wrestling pure. TNA has taken many ideas that the WWE itself has implemented in the past and attempted to use them in order to build a broader audience for itself.

So, is the WWE pro wrestling? It depends on your definition. Of course you'll have some that will scream that it's not, bashing it while hyping TNA to the heavens while ignoring the fact that TNA is every bit as far from traditional pro wrestling as the WWE is. At the end of the day, both WWE and TNA have sacrificed wrestling content and match quality in order to increase the size of their audience. Just putting on a show filled with matches isn't going to draw millions upon millions of fans. When all Vince McMahon's bravado and arrogant claims that the WWE isn't "pro rasslin'" go by the way side, when Dixie Carter is finally able to escape the dillusions that she has the slightest idea that she knows what she's talking about, they'll realize that their overall products aren't nearly as different as they themselves and some fans portray them to be.

 

[AndyUK]

Yeah, WWE is still pro wrestling. It is what wrestling has been since Vince McMahon went national and that is blending sport with theatre and pop culture.

It's like when people call certain workers bad wrestlers. A professional wrestler's job is to entertain and tell a story in the ring, not to be a mat technician. It isn't the Olympics. Pro Wrestling has became much more than just two guys fighting in the ring.

 

[shattered dreams]

This discussion has been interesting. It leads me to believe what I was really asking is WWE sports entertainment or simply entertainment at this point. If it is the latter how far will they take it? It seems like they keep asking themselves how much of this in-ring stuff is necessary and continually find an answer of even less than we previously thought.

 

[#hamler]

You want pro-wrestling??? Go to a high school gym and watch the independents, because TNA and WWE are not pro-wrestling. Is that necessarily a bad thing? To me, no, it's entertainment!!! Entertaining to watch. just look at the number of people on this web site alone. hundreds of fans watching and following the drama that is wrestling, whether tna or wwe fans, we all love to be entertained by "Not Pro-Wrestling". But considered what we call pro-wrestling. We call it TNA or WWE. So if you want to get scientific, no, but if you look at it like what WWE or TNA has done, it would be considered the definition of pro-wrestling.

You cannot call the wwe just entertainment, it's sports entertainment!

http://fast1.onesite.com/fans.wwe.com/user/tnahaterswwerules/profile.jpg

 

[Rasha]

Snow, without question. The Head gimmick alone was more entertaining to me than anything i've ever seen Hogan do, except Hogan V Rock at WM18, but that was more down to the Rock than anything else.

Dude, you're from England. Considering a huge part of Hogan's "Hulkamania" gimmick was steeped in American patriotism, I doubt you have an entirely objective viewpoint.

 

[Rasha]

You cannot call the wwe just entertainment, it's sports entertainment!

The funny thing is that people always seem to want to bash the "sports entertainment" label Vince uses as if it's something that's unique to wrestling. Ever heard of the Harlem Globetrotters? There's a reason the Washington Generals never win.

 

[Depakote]

McMahon is fooling himself if he really thinks he's not in the wrasslin' business. He's trying to disguise pro wrestling as something else so he can get more advertising sponsors, but when it comes down to it, two guys strip down to their underwear and dance in a ring. Thats pro wrestling no matter what you want to call it.

This "sports entertainment" label seems more like a politically correct term. Its like Indians vs. Native Americans. We're still talking about the same thing, just calling it something different to spare someone's feelings. Vince gets offended every time ESPN or someone rips on the WWE for being a wrasslin' company so Vince responds with, "We prefer to call it sports entertainment."

Dear Vince,
Stop kidding yourself. Youre a fucking wrestling promoter. Embrace it. Dont run from it or else youre just going to end up distancing yourself from the fan base that made your company a success in the first place. Its already starting to happen.

 

[The Idiot]

No WWE is not pro wrestling. It is sports entertainment. Hasn't been pro wrestling since around 1995.

Why? Because Vinny Mac coined the phrase sports entertainment?

WWE is pro wrestling and always will be. As long as they have a ring, a referee and the simple rules of counting the shoulders down for a 3 count...it will always be pro wrestling. That doesn't mean it isn't sports entertainment either, because it most certainly is.

 

[NXTrookie2013]

Vince Mcmahon said in his statement about TNA that WWE and TNA are two different businesses. TNA is pro wrestling. WWE is entertainment. Even one of the announcers at wrestlemania said at the begining of the show "welcome to the greatest entertainment spectacular"
Pro wrestling is the combonation of sports and theatre, but WWE calls themselves just entertainment, so I don't think WWE cares how good the wrestling they show is

 

[Kashagi]

Vince Mcmahon said in his statement about TNA that WWE and TNA are two different businesses. TNA is pro wrestling. WWE is entertainment. Even one of the announcers at wrestlemania said at the begining of the show "welcome to the greatest entertainment spectacular"
Pro wrestling is the combonation of sports and theatre, but WWE calls themselves just entertainment, so I don't think WWE cares how good the wrestling they show is

Neverless, it is still a wrestling show, there is still wrestling and if they didnt care about the wrestling I doubt we would get a 24 minute long main event at Wrestlemania XXVI.

While its an interesting thread concept, it cannot be denied that WWE contains plenty of pro wrestling, yes the drama and angles are more glorified then other companies (worse companies), but WWE is pro wrestling, and no argument can deny that.