Is Rey Mysterio the greatest luchadore of all time?

[Mighty NorCal]

Before you bristle at such a suggestion, truly think about the resume he brings.

A multiple time world champion at the highest level of professional wrestling, even doing so at Wrestlemania for one of them. This, in a place were guys of his size / style / nationality generally dont ever even SNIFF the big belts.

The man has been a part of multiple matches that are generally considered to be some of the best of all time. Made big money in all of the big leagues, during their highest of highs.

And to this day, even with age and a multitude of injuries, is probably the most steady, best overall performer at the highest level of the game.

Is Rey Mysterio the greatest luchadore ever? if not, were does he rank, why, and who is above him?

 

[klunderbunker]

This is up for debate?

The vast majority of Mexican wrestlers are constantly considered jokes or jobbers yet here we have a two time world champion. He's a legit main event guy (most of the time) and here he is with an incredible resume, already the best and most successful cruiserweight ever, and one of the only small guys to win the world title. Eddie is American and far more identified as American than Mexican (hispanic and Mexican are two different things remember) and that leaves...Konnan I guess? Tito Santana? Either guy is far below Rey to be sure.

It's Rey and not really even close.

 

[MrHashasheen]

This is up for debate?

The vast majority of Mexican wrestlers are constantly considered jokes or jobbers yet here we have a two time world champion. He's a legit main event guy (most of the time) and here he is with an incredible resume, already the best and most successful cruiserweight ever, and one of the only small guys to win the world title. Eddie is American and far more identified as American than Mexican (hispanic and Mexican are two different things remember) and that leaves...Konnan I guess? Tito Santana? Either guy is far below Rey to be sure.

It's Rey and not really even close.

Mil Mascaras, Blue Demon and El Santo. That's the three guys up for running as greatest luchadore of all time. Rey's pretty big in Mexico, but I doubt they'd compare him to any of those three men. Unless we're talking about the greatest luchadores to compete in the United States specifically, he doesn't come close to being considered greatest of all time.

 

[red ass skull muhfukkah]

It depends on what your talking about. He's no doubt the greatest luchadore to compete in the States but not in Mexico.

He's pretty high up there in Mexico still and maybe 15-20 years from now he'll be considered the greatest but El Santo and Mil Mascaras are Gods in Mexico. They've been put on such a high pedestal by Mexican wrestling fans that it's difficult for anyone to knock them down. Plus El Santo's and Mil Mascara's popularity and accomplishments transcended wrestling into movies, t.v. shows, cartoons, comics, and into the general culture and folklore of Mexico. Rey no doubt has done more for luchadores in the U.S. but El Santo and Mil Mascaras made lucha libre what it is today. It's kind of like the Hogan vs Austin argument. Without Hogan there would be no Austin and his legacy is so engraved in the culture of wrestling it's difficult for us to accept anyone else but Hogan as the greatest, even if Austin was better.

Like I said though I think in 15-20 years he'll be considered the greatest even in Mexico but right now El Santo's and Mil Mascaras' are still the greatest.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Um, im not fucking designating "competed in the USA OR competed n Mexico"

thats not what the thread title says. It says best Luchadore ever. Which takes us to place of many holding the WWE as the top echelon of Wrestling.

Many would ask "well if those other mexico guys were so awesome, why didnt THEY ever get to win the heavyweight title at Wrestlemania?"

I would say those people have a strong point.

 

[red ass skull muhfukkah]

I'm not disputing or trying to detract from what Rey Mysterio has done and I know what you asked, but it's a difficult question to answer.

You have to take into account his level of fame and other luchadores fame in Mexico considering that it's lucha libre's country of origin and where the main fan base lies. There's no doubt he isn't the greatest luchadore in Mexican history, just on fan base and legacy alone. You seem to be of the mind set that how well you do and what championships you've won in the U.S. is the only measure of success. When you have to take into account how big lucha libre is in Mexico and how little success luchadores have had in American wrestling.

You can't say he's the greatest luchadore when he isn't the greatest in the country the style was made, is best known for, and where pretty much the only fans of that style are.

Plus while El Santo and Mil Mascaras have never been World Champs in the U.S. they have competed in the top promotions of their time and country. Mil Mascaras feuded with Billy Graham over the WWWF Title, competed in some huge matches in AJPW against many of the top wrestlers of his era and most of the time came out the better man. Plus Rey cannot hold a candle to the level of impact and importance Mil Mascaras and El Santo have to the lucha libre culture.

It's a hard subject to debate because on one hand no luchadore has reached his level of success in the U.S. but there are a few who are more well known and are at a higher level in Mexico, the place where lucha libre is most popular and where it's embedded into their culture.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I'm not disputing or trying to detract from what Rey Mysterio has done and I know what you asked, but it's a difficult question to answer.

You have to take into account his level of fame and other luchadores fame in Mexico considering that it's lucha libre's country of origin and where the main fan base lies. There's no doubt he isn't the greatest luchadore in Mexican history, just on fan base and legacy alone. You seem to be of the mind set that how well you do and what championships you've won in the U.S. is the only measure of success. When you have to take into account how big lucha libre is in Mexico and how little success luchadores have had in American wrestling.

You can't say he's the greatest luchadore when he isn't the greatest in the country the style was made, is best known for, and where pretty much the only fans of that style are.

Plus while El Santo and Mil Mascaras have never been World Champs in the U.S. they have competed in the top promotions of their time and country. Mil Mascaras feuded with Billy Graham over the WWWF Title, competed in some huge matches in AJPW against many of the top wrestlers of his era and most of the time came out the better man. Plus Rey cannot hold a candle to the level of impact and importance Mil Mascaras and El Santo have to the lucha libre culture.

It's a hard subject to debate because on one hand no luchadore has reached his level of success in the U.S. but there are a few who are more well known and are at a higher level in Mexico, the place where lucha libre is most popular and where it's embedded into their culture.

How many people watch Wrestlemania, worldwide, on a yearly basis? How many watch...Er, whatever the top card down in mexicoland, worldwide, on a yearly basis?

Is it so silly to say that winning the top titles at the top level of competition is the way to quantify ones successes? Surely not the ONLY way, but the one that carries the most presedence...

 

[red ass skull muhfukkah]

I'll give you Wrestlemania is the biggest wrestling event worldwide, the WWE is the top company and that Rey main eventing WM and winning one of WWE's top titles is a huge deal.

But you have to take into account Mil Mascaras' and El Santo's influence on Lucha Libre as a whole. Something Rey cannot yet compare to. They are engraved in the very culture of a country and their legacies transcend beyond wrestling into the every day life in the country where lucha libre is treated with the highest regard. They're impact, much like Hogan and Austin in American culture, go beyond World Titles.

They may have not had success in America or main evented Wrestle Mania, but they are the forefathers and creators of what lucha libre is today. El Santo is such a big part of Mexican folklore, he has become a symbol for the common man and justice. It's in the same vein of when people try to compare other wrestlers to Hogan. How can you say their better when they haven't had as much of an impact not only in wrestling but in a culture itself?

 

[MrHashasheen]

Um, im not fucking designating "competed in the USA OR competed n Mexico"

thats not what the thread title says. It says best Luchadore ever. Which takes us to place of many holding the WWE as the top echelon of Wrestling.

Many would ask "well if those other mexico guys were so awesome, why didnt THEY ever get to win the heavyweight title at Wrestlemania?"

I would say those people have a strong point.

... Because they came before Wrestlemania? El Santo retired in the early eighties, if I remember my lucha libre correctly. These guys dominated in the 60s and the 70s and the early eights before slowing down. And not everyone holds the WWE as the top echelon of wrestling. It's the biggest, most known company, but that doesn't make it the top echelon.

El Santos: Retired in '82
Blue Demon: Retired in '88
Mil Mascaras: Still wrestling like a boss.

 

[3/4 Facelock]

No. Mysterio is not the greatest luchadore ever. Not even the greatest of our generation. He is, however, arguably the most important luchadore on the scene due to his impact on the fans and his incredible work ethic.

Mysterio is the reason many of the U.S. wrestling fans even know what lucha libre is. Lucha Libre is so much more than just masked high flyers. Around the rest of the world wrestlers like El Santo, and Mil Mascaras, and the Blue Demon are regarded as close to godlike as you can get in the wrestling world surpassing legends like Hulk Hogan.

I would say Mil Mascaras would be the greatest but his enormous ego in and out of the ring and his refusal to sell moves keeps him out of contention in my eyes. Him being Del Rio's uncle shows in the Del Rio character. Their characters are very much alike.

El Santo is a wrestling god. A 50 year career whos character inspired art, music, movies, toys, TV, comics. It was he who gave identity to lucha libre in my opinion.

Then you have Blue Demon who for a long time was a villain and part of one of the greatest Mexican tag-teams in wrestling history who won without the use of cheap heel tactics. When he turned good and fought his former partner, it was bigger and more shocking event than when Hogan turned heel.

I personally feel Blue Demon is the greatest of ALL TIME. But if he is #1 then El Santo is #1A.

Given time, Rey Mysterio will be considered one of the greatest but at this point, he is not. And I say that with the utmost respect for Rey Mysterio. No luchadore in the history of the business has put "lucha libre" on more tongues in the western world than Rey Mysterio Jr.

Just wait until you get eyefulls of Sin Cara after they debut him in the WWE. He will blow your mind. He is the next step in the evolution of lucha libre wrestling.

 

[Richard]

It absolutely has to be Rey Mysterio and there is no doubt about it.

Rey Mysterio came into WWE in 2003 and has achieved more success than most lucha libre wrestlers could ever dream of.

Being a two time World Heavyweight Champion in WWE (The top company, mind you) is pretty much what success means to anybody aspiring to a professional wrestler. For a lucha libre guy to come from WCW where he was only showcased in the cruiserweight Nitro opening matches to come to WWE, be a fan faveourite, massive merch seller with your masks, shirts etc and to headline WM, 2 time world champion etc is a massive success story.

It really shouldn't be that debatable.

 

[Sparky]

Not a fan of Rey but I have to agree with you, he is the greatest Luchadore of all times. I can't think of anybody who actually comes close, He is insanley over and responsible for bringing alot of fans to the WWE not to mention a two time Worlds champion.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I'll give you Wrestlemania is the biggest wrestling event worldwide, the WWE is the top company and that Rey main eventing WM and winning one of WWE's top titles is a huge deal.

But you have to take into account Mil Mascaras' and El Santo's influence on Lucha Libre as a whole. Something Rey cannot yet compare to. They are engraved in the very culture of a country and their legacies transcend beyond wrestling into the every day life in the country where lucha libre is treated with the highest regard. They're impact, much like Hogan and Austin in American culture, go beyond World Titles.

They may have not had success in America or main evented Wrestle Mania, but they are the forefathers and creators of what lucha libre is today. El Santo is such a big part of Mexican folklore, he has become a symbol for the common man and justice. It's in the same vein of when people try to compare other wrestlers to Hogan. How can you say their better when they haven't had as much of an impact not only in wrestling but in a culture itself?

OH HEY DUDE THANKS SO MUCH FOR EDUCATING ME ON WHO EL SANTO AND MIL MASCARAS ARE, BECUASE I TOTALLY DIDNT FUCKING KNOW.

Yea, I realize what they both did, were, and in what eras. Compare that to what Rey Mysterio has done, overall. Its all im asking for. Holy fuck.

Its quite simple really. You ask me how can I say Mysterio is better becuase he hasnt had as much of an impact in Mexico, well, I can say Mysterio has had a far broader impact at the highest level of success, and worldwide.

Any wrestling fan anywere in the planet know who Rey Mysterio is. Can the same be said of the other two? Certainley not near to the extent it can be said of Rey Mysterio. Sure you can say "oh but mexico is were Lucha Libre started!!" Well thats nice, but just becuase someone is a forefather of wrestling doesnt make them the greatest of all time. Is Ed Strangler Lewis or Frank Gotch better than Hulk hogan or Steve Austin? Fuck no, of course not.


So please just answer what the thread asks.

 

[Nate DaMac]

You can throw out all of the names you want, but none of them have had the success Rey has had worldwide. If you're going to start comparing him to the people who's success is generally based out of one area in the world, you're kind of contradicting yourself.

To be the World Champion and main event Wrestlemania is pretty much the biggest accomplishment that any professional wrestler can have, and Rey is the only Luchadore who can say that he's been there.

 

[Tastycles]

The three men who would normally be in the conversation of best luchadors would be Santo, Blue Demon and Mil Mascaras. Of those three, only Mascaras ever really seriously wrestled in the United States, but beat both the WWWF and NWA World Champions when he did so. I'd say a Mexican wrestler beating the WWWF Champion in MSG is a pretty big deal. That's a pretty big achievement there, and his notoriety at home and in Japan would probably make him as popular within the wrestling world as a whole as Mysterio is now. I However, the exposure then is obviously different to now, and it leads the argument to a different level. So it greatly depends on what you are trying to say. Have more people seen Rey Mysterio wrestle than any other luchador globally? Yes, probably. But more people have seen Duane Gill wrestle than ever watched Lou Thesz, that doesn't make him better, you have to contextualise what they were doing.

Which brings us to Santo and Blue Demon. Well actually just Santo, because an oversimplified analogy could be made between their relationship and that of Austin and The Rock. There is absolutely no argument that Santo is the biggest name in Mexican wrestling, having crossed into the mainstream fully. The attendance at his funeral was more than 10,000, and there's no other wrestler anywhere that can claim that dedication.

Santo never seriously went to America, it's true, but why would he? Mexican wrestling was more popular than American wrestling at the time, and few wrestlers made much money there, and fewer still went into any mainstream things. Santo was the most popular wrestler in the world in the early 1950s, in terms of being able to draw people to arenas on a nightly basis. That being said, Rey Mysterio is beamed into more homes on a weekly basis than Santo was.

Ultimately, it depends on what you are trying to say. I mean, sure more people in the world know who Rey Mysterio is than who El Santo. More people watch him. But that has a hell of a lot to do with technological advances. Ridiculous examples aside, what about John Cena? There are villages in Romania, in the arse end of nowhere, where the only English words the kids know are "John" and "Cena". Does that make him better than Hulk Hogan, just because WWE is more accessible internationally than it was in 1985? I don't think so.

I really don't know if I agree with you or not. I understand the arguments, but it just doesn't sit well to think that the answer to this question is anyone but Santo. Mysterio is more popular globally, and thanks to the WWE's ubiquity has wrestled in more markets, but Santo was adored by a much bigger percentage of the people he could ever hope to perform in front of, crossed over to the mainstream, and has statues erected in his honour. I think if Mysterio had been the biggest star in the WWE at any point in his career, then I'd go with him. As he hasn't, I think it's Santo.

 

[Calderownz]

Internationally, of course. It's not even debatable, really.

He's had classic matches for all three major American promotions and abroad as well. He's also held the Cruiserweight championship when it mattered most and faced some of the best smaller men of all time. Not to mention that he's the smallest man to win the Royal Rumble and headline WrestleMania. He's also a legit main eventer and has held the World Championship on a couple of occasions.

No one even compares in terms of accomplishments.

Now, if you're talking about preference, that's always going to be up for debate.

 

[ABMorales787]

The three men who would normally be in the conversation of best luchadors would be Santo, Blue Demon and Mil Mascaras. Of those three, only Mascaras ever really seriously wrestled in the United States, but beat both the WWWF and NWA World Champions when he did so. I'd say a Mexican wrestler beating the WWWF Champion in MSG is a pretty big deal. That's a pretty big achievement there, and his notoriety at home and in Japan would probably make him as popular within the wrestling world as a whole as Mysterio is now. I However, the exposure then is obviously different to now, and it leads the argument to a different level. So it greatly depends on what you are trying to say. Have more people seen Rey Mysterio wrestle than any other luchador globally? Yes, probably. But more people have seen Duane Gill wrestle than ever watched Lou Thesz, that doesn't make him better, you have to contextualise what they were doing.

Which brings us to Santo and Blue Demon. Well actually just Santo, because an oversimplified analogy could be made between their relationship and that of Austin and The Rock. There is absolutely no argument that Santo is the biggest name in Mexican wrestling, having crossed into the mainstream fully. The attendance at his funeral was more than 10,000, and there's no other wrestler anywhere that can claim that dedication.

Santo never seriously went to America, it's true, but why would he? Mexican wrestling was more popular than American wrestling at the time, and few wrestlers made much money there, and fewer still went into any mainstream things. Santo was the most popular wrestler in the world in the early 1950s, in terms of being able to draw people to arenas on a nightly basis. That being said, Rey Mysterio is beamed into more homes on a weekly basis than Santo was.

Ultimately, it depends on what you are trying to say. I mean, sure more people in the world know who Rey Mysterio is than who El Santo. More people watch him. But that has a hell of a lot to do with technological advances. Ridiculous examples aside, what about John Cena? There are villages in Romania, in the arse end of nowhere, where the only English words the kids know are "John" and "Cena". Does that make him better than Hulk Hogan, just because WWE is more accessible internationally than it was in 1985? I don't think so.

I really don't know if I agree with you or not. I understand the arguments, but it just doesn't sit well to think that the answer to this question is anyone but Santo. Mysterio is more popular globally, and thanks to the WWE's ubiquity has wrestled in more markets, but Santo was adored by a much bigger percentage of the people he could ever hope to perform in front of, crossed over to the mainstream, and has statues erected in his honour. I think if Mysterio had been the biggest star in the WWE at any point in his career, then I'd go with him. As he hasn't, I think it's Santo.

I'm glad you brought Santo, Demon and Mascaras up. People think that because Mysterio is a WWE Superstar, that makes him the most known and most exposed. I can assure you that 40 years from now, Rey's name will be about as obscure as Nick Bockwinkel's or Gorgeous George's nowadays. Funny thing about George though, he's not only known for his wrestling. Before Hulk Hogan, he was the mega mainstream icon from the wrestling world. He was the one making multiple TV appearances and such. With El Santo, it's the same thing. The man was everywhere. TV, wresting of course, comic books, cartoons and movies. every once in a while I stop in the old Latin movie channel to watch El Santo fight Frankenstein, vampire women and evil mad scientists. He was the pioneer for that stuff. Rey, is all of his current popularity has never reached the status of a Hollywood actor. Not even close.
It doesn't matter in Rey's mainstream in the US. Santo is a piece of history in Mexico. Rey can't lay claim to that. He doesn't have statues engraved in his name.

 

[GrandSword]

As I'm not a WWE mark, I'll just say that I really don't know if being a big name in WWE really means much to alot of people, especially those who love Lucha Libre or any other style / company outside of Vince Jr's circus.

For example I don't really think too much of Triple H's 13 title wins or Edge's 12... they really mean nothing to me. I don't consider either of these two men pioneers or originals or anything really.

As for Rey Mysterio, yeah he has done alot and has been pushed to the moon by the WWE hype machine, and it's great to see him up there... I would say Mascaras and El Santo are above him but he has been able to break through that WWE glass big man ceiling due to his mask, charisma, fan base and high flying skills.

I would say Rey is right up there and I would say he has done it despite the WWE and it's bulshit philosophy so good on you Rey.