Is Randy Orton the luckiest Superstar ever?

[Radical]

First of all, this thread is not made to discount Orton's obvious abilities as a wrestler. He is good but as we all know, just being good in Pro Wrestling isn't everything. You need a push. And a good push can do WONDERS for your career.

Exhibit A: Randy Orton.

First of all, he already has heritage going for him. 3rd generation Superstar from Day 1 is a pretty good start.

But pretty soon after his debut he got the "Legend Killer" gimmick. If you ask me that is probably THE BEST gimmick to start off with. Think about it. You come in and start facing off against FAN FAVORITE Legends (like Sgt. Slaughter, Mick Foley, Undertaker, etc.) who are all much older than you and OBVIOUSLY you are going to win. And that winning gets you a lot of heat and sparks a giant heel persona. And what do top heels get to make them even more heelish? Titles! Because everyone hates the heel who is cocky AND successful.

So that was probably one of the best Superstar pushes a guy can get.

Then, after that he gets into the biggest stable of the early 2000s in Evolution. Grabs more gold during that time.

After that, well, there was the Rated RKO thing which was pretty good I think that was before Legacy but even with Rated RKO a fairly short-lived thing he still managed Tag Team title reigns.

Then with Legacy, another great heel stable that allowed Orton to be the cheating bastard Champion that everyone loathes.

Then after that, he goes lone wolf a little bit but still wins some Championships because his past accomplishments speaks for itself and he's established himself as a dominant force. And he wins, still a lot!

And now, he is back on top with "The Authority" on his side.


So, all that considered. Wouldn't you say that Randy Orton has been the luckiest Superstar of all time in terms of GLORIOUS big pushes?

Ryback, Sandow, Barrett, Ziggler, Axel and more guys like that could only DREAM OF!

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Success in any media or sports form, whether it's as an actor, athlete, writer or whatever has to involve a certain degree of luck. Talent & ability have to be part of the equation, always, but that's not the end all & be all. Sometimes, being in the right place, at the right time and under the right set of circumstances have as much to do with being a success as anything.

Randy Orton programs are, obviously, programs that are given a high level of priority. Why? Because Orton has delivered in the past. Some programs have been better, some have generated more success than others, but Orton has by & large delivered in the situations that he's been given. That's where talent and ability comes in. Has he been able to succeed each & every time? Not really, but the successes FAR outweigh the failures.

So yeah, Orton's lucky. He's also lucky in the sense that he's a tall, athletic, good looking guy. The outside package that someone presents to the world can open doors in & of itself. Why do you think actors who audition for roles often send out or give photos of themselves to casting directors?

Orton's looks and his abilities coupled have probably saved him from being fired more than once in WWE. Several years back, his behavior towards some of the Divas was said to be so unprofessional that he was suspended & sent home. A few years back, he failed a drug test for the second time and, allegedly, several top officials were so pissed off that they wanted Orton fired. So yeah, the guy's definitely been lucky in his career as well.

 

[Mongoose McQueen]

Absolutely I would say. I mean, when you think of success you think of a guy like Randy Orton and everything he has achieved in the WWE. A 9 time WWE Champion, feuds with legends and great matches with the likes of The Undertaker, John Cena, Hulk Hogan etc...the list goes on and on. He obviously has a great look that puts him head and shoulders above a large list of performers within the WWE. He was born into a famous Wrestling family so obviously that goes in his favor big time.

That being said, luck can attributed to a big part of his career. Look at the mistakes he's made and backstage crap that we've heard about, stories with Diva's backstage etc....overall, I would say he has NOT lived up to expectations. I am not saying that because of his accomplishments because he sure as hell has, but his backstage behavioral issues combined with his robot promo's and various screw ups in the Wellness policy, it has stunted his potential as a star. Randy Orton was supposed to be everything that John Cena is today, albeit less of a hero and more an anti-hero....

Had Orton not made some of the mistakes he has made, I feel he would be an even bigger star than he is today. He has always played second fiddle to Cena, and Batista also when he was around. His next goal should be aspiring to become one of the greatest of all time, which in all truth and honesty, he is far from achieving.

 

[Limitless]

I am going with Cena, and here's why...

He got his first match against Kurt Angle who makes anyone look good. Then he goes on with this white rapper gimmick, which was big and he got over. He also had a feud with Taker and beat Big Show at WM for the U.S Title. Wins the World Title against JBL and since has been pushed to the moon.

Has been in the main event at WM way too many times and not to mention how many of them that he won. Also he can never get over with the crowd like Rock, Austin, Hogan, ect and is supposed to be the "Face" of the company. He also has a bunch of "Fanboys" who don't like him taking criticism. He is in tons of commercials and TV/Movie Appearances.

The guys wrestling skills have not changed, as well as his Gimmick and he continues with the same childish jokes week in and week out. This is enough but the biggest is the change from TV-14 to PG, because he is the epitome of PG. He also has 13 World Titles on the verge of destroying Flairs record. He gets credit for all High End PPV Draws and gets no attention for Low one's. In fact the finger get's pointed at other superstars.

He has worked with everyone in the business except a few "old" one's and has beaten them all.

But the biggest of them ALL ... Vince makes money off him, and Cena gets a "Friend" for life... or until he stops drawing lol.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

I would have to go with Cena too. Anyone else who gets massive push as the top guy and still has half the audience hate him would have been buried ASAP. But not our boy Cena. He's a terrificly talented guy but he stays on top because management wants him there no matter what. Ratings, buyrates and audience reactions don't matter when it comes to him, they can all be terrible and he still stays as Superman. How luckier of a spot can someone have?

 

[Eyebrows]

You could boil anybody's success down to luck if you look at the gimmicks and storylines they were handed without looking at WHY they handed them.

I'd say Orton is lucky in the sense that he happened to win the gene lottery and end up as Bob Orton's son. That gave him the foot in the door. The rest, though, was up to him.

It took Orton at least a year really to get to the Legend Killer gimmick, which didn't really start until late 2003 after he'd been in Evolution almost a year. That intercontinental title reign, and feud with Foley, in 2004 made him but that wouldn't have been given to anybody without any talent who the 'E wasn't going to get behind. It's more than just luck because Orton had the talent to take what he was given and run with it.

 

[Kidpolean]

I would have to go with Cena too. Anyone else who gets massive push as the top guy and still has half the audience hate him would have been buried ASAP. But not our boy Cena. He's a terrificly talented guy but he stays on top because management wants him there no matter what. Ratings, buyrates and audience reactions don't matter when it comes to him, they can all be terrible and he still stays as Superman. How luckier of a spot can someone have?

I disagree. Cena is where he should be. What makes Cena more lucky than Rock, Austin, or Hogan?

Cena sells the most merch, is the best role model for children that the company has, great on the mic, has a great look, and always has at least one match of the year candidate. Im not a Cena fan but the guy is extremely talented. He has WAY more talent than Hogan ever had, so why not say Hogan is the luckiest? What about the fact that Austin gets all the credit for the AE even though he had the most stacked roster in wrestling history helping him out? What about Bret Hart? That guy would have been a mid carder in any other era but because he was in the WORST era in pro wrestling he became a world champ and an all time great. What about Taker? He luckily was booked into having the streak which put him on a whole new level that he would have and should have been on. What about the HHH, the 13 time world champ that will eventually be handed the entire company? What about the Miz, the worst wrestler besides maybe Bam Bam Bigelow, to ever Main event a Wrestlemania?

I dont know who the luckiest superstar is but I wouldnt even put Orton or Cena on the list. I would probably say HHH. 13 world titles, Hall of Famer, an all time great, smoking hot wife lol, and will be the owner of the company. But even then, I hesitate to call HHH lucky because he worked hard for everything he got and was talented. He is lucky that he got to marry the bosses daughter though I guess.

 

[Kris Benwa]

I'd say so but because he wasnt fired and ostracized by his peers. Randy Orton has been one of the top stars for a while and has fucked up more than any top guy i remember but rarely ever gets a fair punishment and it's disgusting. He also caused firings and depushes and for the majority of his career has been boring as shit (minus 04-07 then 09) but still just wont go away. I'd say he's one of the luckiest but you can chalk up most people's accomplishments to somewhat being luck driven but I do believe thatmost people also worked hard to achieve them so he's lucky to still be employed at all moreso than be successful.

 

[Marshyishere]

Depends on your definition of lucky...

If you are talking about the one with gods gift, then yes it would have go be Orton with his heritage, height, physique & looks. He has all the tools to have been #1, however he was outshone by Cena.

If you are talking about being given so many opportunities that you can't possibly fail, then it would have to be Cena. No one else in history has has this much backing and has stayed the face of a company for so long, let alone a face for basically his whole career. However you can't fault Cena as he has worked his ass off for it.

This brings me to CM Punk. A hard worker, who is great on the mic and above average in the ring. His physique is poor, he is small, he doesn't have 'the look'. No way anyone would have predicted this guy making it to the top. To me, I think Punk would have to be the luckiest, as people like him reaching the top does not happen very often.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

This brings me to CM Punk. A hard worker, who is great on the mic and above average in the ring. His physique is poor, he is small, he doesn't have 'the look'. No way anyone would have predicted this guy making it to the top. To me, I think Punk would have to be the luckiest, as people like him reaching the top does not happen very often.

I don't think his physique is poor, yeah it's not ripped but what Punk does have is his lean look which helps with conditioning. My understanding is that he goes through a strict diet regimen and I am pretty sure meeting him person probably has a better body than your average person.

At the end though Punk became one of the top guys because he is extremely popular. And it's popularity that dictates your spot in the company (in theory) I mean this is the guy that outpopped DX in his first year in the WWE. That says a lot.

I'd say so but because he wasnt fired and ostracized by his peers. Randy Orton has been one of the top stars for a while and has fucked up more than any top guy i remember but rarely ever gets a fair punishment and it's disgusting. He also caused firings and depushes and for the majority of his career has been boring as shit (minus 04-07 then 09) but still just wont go away. I'd say he's one of the luckiest but you can chalk up most people's accomplishments to somewhat being luck driven but I do believe thatmost people also worked hard to achieve them so he's lucky to still be employed at all moreso than be successful.

Yeah though I would say Orton was not so much that he was lucky rather that there were people high up that were protecting him. By all accounts Orton should have been fired by now from his attitude backstage with some of the women, to trashing hotel rooms, to violating the wellness policy (and one not being suspended) its amazing that Orton still has a job.

Cena on the other hand is very very fortunate that he's in the WWE during a time when the WWE is the only major wrestling promotion out there. If nWo happened today (or even a few years back) there's no way Cena would have been on top this long. This and the WWE going PG stifled the older Audiences who would have hated Cena but that and the lack of competition means also helps. Cena is never going to be Austin, Rock, or Hogan in what they can do for the WWE but is stable enough to be the status quo for a long time since he brings in steady and profitable numbers.

So yeah Cena came in the right place at the right time but I think the luckiest superstar. And Orton has a ton of people backstage protecting him so he can pretty much get away with anything.

But I say the luckiest superstar ever has got to be John Bradshaw Layfield. Before his transformation to JBL in 2004, Bradshaw's biggest success is being on a tag team whose gimmick is drinking beer and having bar room brawls. Sure the APA was rather popular but beyond a few gimmicks they were never a top tag team. So if Bradshaw and his APA tag team isn't even the top tag team at anytime what else can he achieve as a singles star. Many would say much less.

Though to be fair WWE has always tried to push Bradshaw in anyway possible. They all failed. All signs pointed to him no future as a singles star.

But from a guy who had no business winning the IC or US title, much less a World Title, JBL won the WWE Championship in 2004. Here you have a guy who was repackaged, had ok mic skills at the time, had below average matches, didn't have a good body, probably had X-Pac heat during his first run as the character, and did a Nazi Salute in Germany causing a ton of controversy and bad publicity for the company yet in 4 months became WWE Champion.

The only reason why he became the Champion is because Brock Lesnar left the WWE so WWE needed to find a new heel quick and Angle was injured at the time and also started to get injury prone. Without a heel to hold on the title WWE had no choice but to give it to Bradshaw/JBL. If Angle was not injured or if Lesnar never left the company it's almost 100% guaranteed that the JBL character would never happen or even if he was repackaged after an APA split wouldn't be anywhere near the WWE Title.

This series of events pretty much solidified JBL's career. And while the first year was marred with fans basically hating him (X-Pac heat) there really wasn't much of a choice so he stayed as a main eventer long enough to fans to actually warm up to him.

 

[salopstick]

Jbl was very deserving, in his run he was an unbelievable heel.

Pro wrestling has always been about being in the right spot at the right time

 

[evolutionfan4life]

Ryt I'm gonna prepare for the hate
the luckiest star without doubt is cm punk here why
1,Paul heyman hes a heyman guy
2.only won ecw title COs john Morrison got suspended for drugs.
3.only won mitb at wrestlemania 24 cos Jeff hardy hot suspended he was pencilled in to win and defeat hhh at summerslam.
4won cashed in on edge who was taking time off forr an injury anyway so ryt time ryt place.
5. After failing as champ won i.c title after regal gets suspended over drugs
6.wwe decides to hav a there 1st back 2 back mitb winner ryt place ryt time
7. Cashes in on the most over guy in wwe Jeff hardy to win world title and hardy makes him a top heel and puts him over
8. As he fails with 2 terrible stables s.e.s & nexus he waits till hes contract is almost up till he crys like a birch on stage and demands the title or hes leaving.
9 gets hes title and now where he is so tell me if he ain't lucky

 

[NegativeFeedback]

I disagree. Cena is where he should be. What makes Cena more lucky than Rock, Austin, or Hogan?

Cena sells the most merch, is the best role model for children that the company has, great on the mic, has a great look, and always has at least one match of the year candidate. Im not a Cena fan but the guy is extremely talented. He has WAY more talent than Hogan ever had, so why not say Hogan is the luckiest? What about the fact that Austin gets all the credit for the AE even though he had the most stacked roster in wrestling history helping him out? What about Bret Hart? That guy would have been a mid carder in any other era but because he was in the WORST era in pro wrestling he became a world champ and an all time great. What about Taker? He luckily was booked into having the streak which put him on a whole new level that he would have and should have been on. What about the HHH, the 13 time world champ that will eventually be handed the entire company? What about the Miz, the worst wrestler besides maybe Bam Bam Bigelow, to ever Main event a Wrestlemania?

I dont know who the luckiest superstar is but I wouldnt even put Orton or Cena on the list. I would probably say HHH. 13 world titles, Hall of Famer, an all time great, smoking hot wife lol, and will be the owner of the company. But even then, I hesitate to call HHH lucky because he worked hard for everything he got and was talented. He is lucky that he got to marry the bosses daughter though I guess.

Audiences never turned on Hogan. In hindsight, us smarks recognize how much he sucked in the ring, but at the time, EVERYONE marked out to Hulk Hogan. He never got booed. This wasn't luck, the dude captivated everyone and was a legitimate fan-favorite.

Austin was a badass all on his own. The AE wouldn't have been the same without Steve Austin. WWE got lucky with Austin, not vice-versa, he was just what they needed in the MNW. And again, the audience never turned on him either. Obviously, we didn't get enough time to get sick of him. His reign at the top was much shorter than Cena's, but then again, that's how it should be.

Bret Hart was over even when Hogan was at the top. He was a solid performer all around. He definitely got his big break when the steroid scandal broke out and Hogan bailed, but I hardly call any of that luck. He was the best guy on the roster at the time. That isn't all luck. The only other guy who could have been the top face was probably Ken Shamrock.

Taker's streak making him lucky is a silly notion. He was over and successful way before the streak. In fact, it wasn't until WM23 that "the streak" became a huge deal. Before that, it was just an anecdote that wasn't any different than Benoit being undefeated at Survivor Series.

HHH wasn't "lucky". He's smart and cunning. You don't just luck yourself into the boss' daughter's bed. He played the game and he WON and it had nothing to do with luck.

Miz was VERY over. He got huge heat, the audiences were reacting to him big-time and the internet was head over heels for him. ProWrestlingScoops.com even put him in his logo, and still has him there to this day. Miz even had legitimate GREAT title matches with Lawler, Orton and Morrison. This wasn't about 'luck'. He earned it. He couldn't keep his act fresh and suffered afterwards, but make no mistake, his time at the top was deserved at the time.

John Cena was over, he deserved his big win at Mania, he deserved his title run and he deserved to be the top guy. But he couldn't stay a fan-favorite for a decade. It's preposterous to expect him to do the SAME thing over and over again and have the fans eating out of his hands the whole time. Half the crowd turned on him. The only ones who legitimately like 100% of his act are the ones who aren't long-term fans and find his act "new".

WWE should have reacted to the audience and moved him into another role for him to succeed. Let someone else hold the reins at the top while Cena metamorphisizes. But nope, he still stays at the same top spot whether or not what he does fails to captivate the audience, fails to raise ratings, or fails to raise buyrates. He sells merchandise? Yeah, well, sometimes the WWE booths have NOTHING but Orton and Cena shirts. No wonder he's a top merch seller. Put nothing but Bryan and Punk T-shirts on every booth and they'll sell out too.

 

[L@RISANO]

Audiences never turned on Hogan. In hindsight, us smarks recognize how much he sucked in the ring, but at the time, EVERYONE marked out to Hulk Hogan. He never got booed. This wasn't luck, the dude captivated everyone and was a legitimate fan-favorite.

Austin was a badass all on his own. The AE wouldn't have been the same without Steve Austin. WWE got lucky with Austin, not vice-versa, he was just what they needed in the MNW. And again, the audience never turned on him either. Obviously, we didn't get enough time to get sick of him. His reign at the top was much shorter than Cena's, but then again, that's how it should be.

Bret Hart was over even when Hogan was at the top. He was a solid performer all around. He definitely got his big break when the steroid scandal broke out and Hogan bailed, but I hardly call any of that luck. He was the best guy on the roster at the time. That isn't all luck. The only other guy who could have been the top face was probably Ken Shamrock.

Taker's streak making him lucky is a silly notion. He was over and successful way before the streak. In fact, it wasn't until WM23 that "the streak" became a huge deal. Before that, it was just an anecdote that wasn't any different than Benoit being undefeated at Survivor Series.

HHH wasn't "lucky". He's smart and cunning. You don't just luck yourself into the boss' daughter's bed. He played the game and he WON and it had nothing to do with luck.

Miz was VERY over. He got huge heat, the audiences were reacting to him big-time and the internet was head over heels for him. ProWrestlingScoops.com even put him in his logo, and still has him there to this day. Miz even had legitimate GREAT title matches with Lawler, Orton and Morrison. This wasn't about 'luck'. He earned it. He couldn't keep his act fresh and suffered afterwards, but make no mistake, his time at the top was deserved at the time.

John Cena was over, he deserved his big win at Mania, he deserved his title run and he deserved to be the top guy. But he couldn't stay a fan-favorite for a decade. It's preposterous to expect him to do the SAME thing over and over again and have the fans eating out of his hands the whole time. Half the crowd turned on him. The only ones who legitimately like 100% of his act are the ones who aren't long-term fans and find his act "new".

WWE should have reacted to the audience and moved him into another role for him to succeed. Let someone else hold the reins at the top while Cena metamorphisizes. But nope, he still stays at the same top spot whether or not what he does fails to captivate the audience, fails to raise ratings, or fails to raise buyrates. He sells merchandise? Yeah, well, sometimes the WWE booths have NOTHING but Orton and Cena shirts. No wonder he's a top merch seller. Put nothing but Bryan and Punk T-shirts on every booth and they'll sell out too.

tbh, I don't call that being lucky on Cena's part. I think if this booing thing goes on, his legacy will be hindered more than it will be helped.
I am talking as a Cena fan from since his debut. His rap gimmick was great at the time, and I remember his debut on RAW during Y2J's Highlight Reel and the ovation he got.
His change to a Superman character was good as well initially, but being the guy that the company is built around it was a matter of time before people get tired of it. As you said, his character is stale which we all know, and as thus due to many protesting, he has as much haters as he has fans. The WWE not changing his character at all, rather teasing it every now and then might well hurt his image when he retires. Had he instead been changed maybe to a heel within a few months of being booed, and then having a heel run for a couple of years and then returning to being a face, he would never be getting such a reaction, because he is at the end, one of the Greatest Superstars ever in the WWE.

For example, even Taker had to change character for a bit to the American Badass to freshen things up. His return to being the Deadman was then well received again when he went back to it.
John Cena unfortunately, hasn't had that kind of wholesale change to his character and as a fan, I fear it will be to a detriment to how he is received when it is all over...there is still time however for the WWE to realise that and not let it happen.

 

[kadroan]

I wouldn't say Orton is lucky. I'd say he took advantage of his opportunity. It's not like he never left the WWE to pursue other ventures like The Rock, Brock, Batista, he just always been there and he paid his dues. Yes, he's screwed up in the past but HHH and many others have done the same

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

Ryt I'm gonna prepare for the hate
the luckiest star without doubt is cm punk here why
1,Paul heyman hes a heyman guy
2.only won ecw title COs john Morrison got suspended for drugs.
3.only won mitb at wrestlemania 24 cos Jeff hardy hot suspended he was pencilled in to win and defeat hhh at summerslam.
4won cashed in on edge who was taking time off forr an injury anyway so ryt time ryt place.
5. After failing as champ won i.c title after regal gets suspended over drugs
6.wwe decides to hav a there 1st back 2 back mitb winner ryt place ryt time
7. Cashes in on the most over guy in wwe Jeff hardy to win world title and hardy makes him a top heel and puts him over
8. As he fails with 2 terrible stables s.e.s & nexus he waits till hes contract is almost up till he crys like a birch on stage and demands the title or hes leaving.
9 gets hes title and now where he is so tell me if he ain't lucky

LOL! Going by your points

1. Being a Paul Heyman guy was like a death sentence for most superstars in the political environment in the WWE. If anything being a Heyman guy hurt Punk early in his career.

2. And Bret Hart won the title partly because of the steroid scandal, stuff like that happens.

4. Edge wasn't injured at the time, if he was injured he wouldn't have wrestled 2 more PPV's once being a Hell in a Cell before getting shelved.

5. I believe he was suspended months before and not after. And I don't believe he dropped the title because he was getting suspended.

6. Yeah ok, and they decided that Austin would be first 3 time winner of the Rumble. I doubt they decided who would win the MITB because they wanted a back to back winner.

7. How is this different from any other angle? You have a feud with someone to get each other over. Is that not how it works?

8. Nexus lost momentum when he became the leader, Punk was leading a sinking ship. SES was a success it got a lot heat from the crowd, it ended prematurely but that was hardly Punk's call (I believe it had to do with the members being released).

 

[Slash-LN]

I'd say Bob Holly was pretty lucky.
Despite a few terrible gimmicks and a lack of ever getting over in a major way with the crowd Bob Holly still managed to keep his job for 15 years.
Yeah he had the stuff with Crash but I think it's fair to say Crash was considerably more over than Bob. And even if Crash wasn't what else did Bob have to offer that set him apart from everyone else?
There was nothing about him that ever stood out in a big way except for those who knew his toughness and even with that some people felt he would go over the line with working stiff but despite that he still managed to stay employed.

Although he didn't win he challenged for The WWE title against Brock and JBL, he is a multiple tag title winner (3 times and the NWA tag champion while WWF had Jim Cornette's NWA stable) and was a 6 time Hardcore champion not that that really matters much.

He was also the person chosen to break CM Punk's undefeated streak.

I know he had some injuries along the way but not many wrestlers can say they worked for the biggest wrestling company in the world for 15 years. Especially when they were pretty much a gimmick wrestler.

And he avoided having to have his arm amputated due to injuries. That allowed him to continue to wrestle and not have to end his career.