Is he a 'Franchise QB'?: Joe Flacco

[Megatron]

In football it's generally thought that if you have a 'Franchise QB' you are set for 10-15 years and will be able to contend if you put enough complementary pieces around that QB. Except for in the rare cases where the complementary pieces are stronger than the QB (85 Bears, 00 Ravens), it's basically a requirement that you need a good QB to be a Super Bowl contender.

In this thread, I will present to you a handful of players who are currently the undisputed starter for their team. These guys will not have won a Super Bowl before, since all of the QBs with a ring would likely be considered 'Franchise QBs'. This thread isn't for them. This is a thread for guys that may or may not have the talent to lead his team to a Super Bowl Championship. I will list the pros and cons of the player listed and then I'll open it up to you guys to decide if the said QB is capable of being labeled a 'Franchise QB'.

Please note: my definition of a 'Franchise QB' is a guy that is the center of your offense and won't ride the coattails of his defense to a title (Dilfer with the Ravens, Grossman on the Bears as examples of guys I WOULDN'T consider franchise QB's even though they won/made a Super Bowl as the Starting QB.
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It's been a few weeks since this thread has been brought up, so it's time to address another topic. After making our way through the 2009 class, with 2 overwhelming nos (Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman) and 1 overwhelming yes (Matthew Stafford), we make our way to the 2008 draft class with this one being the Baltimore Ravens QB Joe Flacco.

Yes, he's a Franchise QB
-He's lead the Ravens to the playoffs each year and won at least 1 playoff game each time.
-Has the most regular season wins by a QB in his first 4 seasons
-Holds numerous franchise records already, although that may be more due to the lack of talented QBs during the Ravens decade and a half worth of history.

No, he's not a Franchise QB
-He regressed some last year even with more opportunities (53 more attempts than any of his first 3 seasons)
-Has relied on both a strong running game and top defense for a large amount of his success
-Has posted many duds in his 9 playoff games - only 2 games with >60 completion %, only 3 games with 90+ rating (with one more at 89), only 6.2 YPA, 1/1 TD/INT ratio

Overall Flaccos a tricky test case. Yes he has the wins, but one could argue that it was more a product of the system than of his abilities. After slowly improving each of his first 3 years he took a step back last year but did perform better in the playoffs. Frankly I don't think I'll ever place him in any top 10 categories and is destined for good-not-great status. He'll likely be a solid starter for 10+ years, but I don't think he'll ever be the reason why his team makes the playoffs. Not that he'll be 'carried', but his supporting cast will be stronger than most if he has success. I'd go a no, although I'd be more confident with him over the two nos given already.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

Here's the thing with Flacco. He's inconsistent. He plays great for one game then bombs the next. It ends up falling on the defence's shoulder's to carry the team. I like Flacco and I think he'll be ok as a starter, but he's definitely not franchise qb material.

 

[Davi323]

No way in hell is Flacco a Franchise QB. He is a game manager, nothing more. If the Ravens are down by 6 in the last minute of the game, with 80 yards to go, do you want that guy trying to lead a comeback? If not, he isn't a Franchise QB. You might be comfortable with Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Matt Stafford or Aaron Rodgers at the helm, but Flacco? Maybe it's their system, but the Ravens haven't had a real big arm at QB since Elvis Grbac.

 

[SuperKick36]

Here's the thing with Flacco. He's inconsistent. He plays great for one game then bombs the next. It ends up falling on the defence's shoulder's to carry the team. I like Flacco and I think he'll be ok as a starter, but he's definitely not franchise qb material.

I voted yes, because I believe he is. I have really liked the Ravens for a while, and I have confidence in Flacco.

He is inconsistent, but I think this can be fixed. This is just a mental thing, not a physical. He just needs to get his head straight, and if he does he can be a "franchise" player.

If not, he'll go to the QB graveyard like all the other QBs that fail (Except Rex Grossman, he's immortal or something).

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Not even close, Joe Flacco is just blessed with being on a strong Raven's team which allows him to get by. If the Raven's are up he's fine, Flacco at least knows how to do time management and kill time but if the Raven's are down he is not the guy you want at the helm.

Flacco certainly can't lead the Raven's to victory, he can contribute to victories but he can't lead them to victory. That's Flacco's big problem he isn't a leader and to be a good franchise QB you need to be a leader.

 

[Nate DaMac]

No way in hell is Flacco a Franchise QB. He is a game manager, nothing more. If the Ravens are down by 6 in the last minute of the game, with 80 yards to go, do you want that guy trying to lead a comeback?

Did you happen to watch the AFC Championship game this year? Because he did exactly that. He did everything possible to win that game and he put the ball right in Lee Evans' hands for the touchdown and the buffoon didn't secure it. Flacco showed a lot of clutch in that game and in the entire 2011 playoff run for that matter.

I don't necessarily think that he is a franchise quarterback, but I'm leaning toward yes right now. His consistency is certainly lacking for the most part though it has gotten better exponentially each year. He's a decent passer, he makes good decisions for the most part, and most of all, he's a winner.

There isn't 10 other QBs I'd rather have.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

No way in hell is Flacco a Franchise QB. He is a game manager, nothing more. If the Ravens are down by 6 in the last minute of the game, with 80 yards to go, do you want that guy trying to lead a comeback?

[YOUTUBE]ZiXiB4Zu-eo[/YOUTUBE]

Being a Steelers fan, I sure haven't forgotten about this.

I think Flacco can be a franchise QB. He's thrown for 3600 each of the last three seasons, His completion percentage fell off last year but he'll get it back to above 60%. He only gets sacked twice per game over his career. The problem is that he hasn't had great wide receivers. Anquan Boldin was great in Arizona but hasn't lived up to that in Baltimore and I'm not going to discuss Lee Evans. Torrey Smith was good last year and if he can develop and Boldin can get back to what he was three of four years ago, Flacco will only improve. Ray Rice can't carry the load forever. Their receiving corps has to step up especially with Lewis and Reed nearing the end of their careers.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

Obviously some people don't understand the word INCONSISTENT. YES he has games where he plays great, see the AFC championship game from last year. But he also has games where he can't do a thing. I understand that Flacco is a GOOD quarterback and sometimes, even can be a GREAT quarterback. But I'd much rather have someone who's great ALL the time. I like Tebow but I wouldn't make him my quarterback because he isn't there ALL game. Flacco is much the same except that Flacco can consistently throw the ball where as Tebow can't. I like Flaco and I like the Ravens but I wouldn't put Flacco at the helm because you don't know which Flacco will show up;the great quarterback, or the choke artists.

 

[Big Sexy]

I'm not sure Flacco is a franchise qb at this point but he is certainly more then a game manager. His numbers regressed this past regular season but that was in part due to the fact that for the first time, he was asked to be more then a game manager. The thing that really shows me Flacco still has a chance to be a franchise qb is his play in the playoffs this past season. He played great in both the win over Houston and the loss to NE. In fact if Lee Evans could catch then Flacco would have capped off a great game winning drive and who knows what would have happened in the SB (my money would have been on Baltimore). My answer is "no" for now but some are underrating him in this thread.

 

[The Ghost of Benoit]

Flacco is an average QB at best. A franchise QB has to put up very good numbers and be consistent. There are probably at least 15 QBs that are better than him right now.

The only reason he "wins" is because of his defense. And I really dont care what he did in the AFC championship against New England's 31st ranked defense. The Ravens could barely beat a Houston team that was missing Matt Schaub and Mario Williams.

 

[Nev]

I remember watching the Jets-Ravens game last season and Flacco played one of the worst games by a QB I've seen on national television. It was a blowout game in the ravens favor, but it did not tell the whole story. Joe Flacco was completely lost. He just could not understand and diagnose the coverages the Jets were running. He was tenative, locked on to targets, missed open receivers, and threw deep (ugly) floaters downfield that routinely fell incomplete.

Given the standards Flacco sets for himself (twice now has called himself the best QB in football), it was an eyebrow raising performance for me. The guy has a cannon for an arm and arguably a top 5 QB in football in terms of raw arm strength. He can make every throw in the book. However, this man has a long way to go before he can even bring himself in the discussion of an elite QB.

He has shown the ability to put on solid passing games. Flacco plays well like any QB should when he understands what he sees and locates the open man right away. Overall though, I see him as a tentative passer that has aways to go in regards to his understanding of defenses, mastering the pre-snap game, and beating man coverages when his receivers aren't wide open. Although perhaps a lot of his struggles could be contributed to the youth on offense, which would kill a lot of my argument (lol)

 

[Megatron]

I'm not saying anyone should be a sheep and follow one mans word as the gospel, but for those of you that have been following Ron Jaworski's Top 30 QB series, are you surprised to see that Flacco was #9 on the list? Especially ahead of the likes of Romo (stronger track record) and Stafford/Newton (both had tremendous seasons last year)? I think everyone would agree that Jaworski knows much more of the ins and outs of the position than all of us combined, and he brings up solid points. Flacco has a strong arm and can make a lot of the throws that others simply can't because of his arm strength. While that has burnt him once in a while, he is clearly a physically gifted player.

So, yeah, you guys surprised by Jaws lofty rating of Flacco after a lot of the criticism he's gotten in this thread?

 

[772Attitude]

As a Ravens fan I vote YES times 100. Im assuming most of the people who commented don't watch too many Ravens games or don't know much about the Ravens. Considering what Joe had to work with on offense this year I'd say he had a damn good year. Look at it this way. They have the WORST offensive coordinator in the league. Cam Cameron does not know how to adjust in game to save his live. All but 2 of Flacco's targets were either rookies or first year starters WITHOUT TRAINING CAMP!!! And even after that he still gets Them to the AFC championship. People are saying he only wins because of the defense, those are the ones who didn't even watch a Ravens game this year. They have always had a elite defense before Flacco got drafted, so why weren't They making the playoffs every year then? Where were the playoff victories then? Yes Flacco is a Franchise QB and the best the Ravens ever had. PAY THE MAN!!!

 

[The Ghost of Benoit]

I'm not saying anyone should be a sheep and follow one mans word as the gospel, but for those of you that have been following Ron Jaworski's Top 30 QB series, are you surprised to see that Flacco was #9 on the list? Especially ahead of the likes of Romo (stronger track record) and Stafford/Newton (both had tremendous seasons last year)? I think everyone would agree that Jaworski knows much more of the ins and outs of the position than all of us combined, and he brings up solid points. Flacco has a strong arm and can make a lot of the throws that others simply can't because of his arm strength. While that has burnt him once in a while, he is clearly a physically gifted player.

So, yeah, you guys surprised by Jaws lofty rating of Flacco after a lot of the criticism he's gotten in this thread?

If he ranks Flacco above Romo, Newton, and Stafford I cant take anything he says seriously.

Joe Flacco was bottom 10 in completion percentage and bottom 12 in yards per attempt last year. I'm fine with saying he's an average QB.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I would say yes, for now.

He has the Tebow, Sanchez, Freeman thing going on where he can play inconsistent at times. However, he rarely has a game that is sooo bad that people are calling for a replacement. He's winning most of his games and that's what it boils down to. Yes, a lot of that is because of the 2 Ray's on his team, Lewis and Rice, but he can make some damn good throws. Part of me wonders if he's not that comfortable in the system, because he's got a good arm, but that offense just doesn't click as well as it should.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

If he ranks Flacco above Romo, Newton, and Stafford I cant take anything he says seriously.

Joe Flacco was bottom 10 in completion percentage and bottom 12 in yards per attempt last year. I'm fine with saying he's an average QB.

What makes guys like Stafford and Newton so much better than Flacco? Let's take Newton for example. First two games he throws for over 400 yards and everybody was falling over themselves praising him. In the last eight games, he threw for 212 yards or less six times. People just need to hold up on him before they start proclaiming him all-time great. Stafford just came off his first full season uninjured as well and had a great year but it was just that- a great year. I need to see more from him.

 

[Larry]

I voted a big fat emphatic NO for Joe Flacco, and that was hard because when he was drafted to the Ravens I thought they were going to win a Super Bowl with him and the tools around him. Apparently as time has told, I was quite clearly wrong on that one. I think it does come down to the inconsistency, and the fact that there are some unknown factors with him. How successful would he be without that top notch defense to keep teams from outscoring them? How successful would he be without a good run game to take some of the pressure off of his shoulders and keep him from having to throw 40+ passes a game like some other quarterbacks we could name? We have seen that he CAN play at an above average level, but what about ELITE? I don't know about that.

Honestly, put him in Tony Romo's shoes over the last few years and lets see if he can produce the same or better? I doubt it. That's a tough position to be in down there in Dallas, and Romo has yet to enjoy the luxury of a killer "D", a solid O line to protect him, a great running game, etc....Just saying' Falcco has had an ideal situation that other qb's, not just Romo, could likely have made more of and that tells me he isn't a franchise guy.

 

[The Ghost of Benoit]

What makes guys like Stafford and Newton so much better than Flacco? Let's take Newton for example. First two games he throws for over 400 yards and everybody was falling over themselves praising him. In the last eight games, he threw for 212 yards or less six times. People just need to hold up on him before they start proclaiming him all-time great. Stafford just came off his first full season uninjured as well and had a great year but it was just that- a great year. I need to see more from him.

I agree that we need to see more of Stafford and Newton. But Flacco's numbers regressed significantly in a record-breaking offensive NFL season.

 

[Dream]

He is average. Not great, I'd say top 15 though. He chokes in big situations.

 

[JWGunslinger]

He's inconsistent but when he's good he can be a fuckin superstar. Flacco has always been the bain of my existence as a Steeler fan but I can appreciate his talent as a young QB. He does have a strong team backing him and he often buckles under pressure when the steaks are high but he's enough of a team leader and accurate quarterback that I'd say he makes the franchise cut. He's got some work to do in order to cement himself as a top QB but he's still got time and I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a strong case this season.

 

[772Attitude]

I voted a big fat emphatic NO for Joe Flacco, and that was hard because when he was drafted to the Ravens I thought they were going to win a Super Bowl with him and the tools around him. Apparently as time has told, I was quite clearly wrong on that one. I think it does come down to the inconsistency, and the fact that there are some unknown factors with him. How successful would he be without that top notch defense to keep teams from outscoring them? How successful would he be without a good run game to take some of the pressure off of his shoulders and keep him from having to throw 40+ passes a game like some other quarterbacks we could name? We have seen that he CAN play at an above average level, but what about ELITE? I don't know about that.

Honestly, put him in Tony Romo's shoes over the last few years and lets see if he can produce the same or better? I doubt it. That's a tough position to be in down there in Dallas, and Romo has yet to enjoy the luxury of a killer "D", a solid O line to protect him, a great running game, etc....Just saying' Falcco has had an ideal situation that other qb's, not just Romo, could likely have made more of and that tells me he isn't a franchise guy.

So what your saying is the Ravens win every game inspite of him right?